Classics and the Western Canon discussion

As you can see by the schedule, its time to start planning for our next big read:
May 6 - May 12 TSTF Week 6 & Next read member discussion
May 13 - May 19 TSTF Week 7 & Next read Poll
May 20 - May 26 TSTF Week 8 & Next read run-off if needed
May 27 - Jun 2 Interim Read 1 & Acquire book week 1
Jun 3 - Jun 9 Interim Read 2 & Acquire book week 2
Jun 10 - Jun 16 2020 Second Read Start

In no particular order, here are the nominees from your moderators and the Notorious Random Book Generator:

Typee: A Peep at Polynesian Life by Herman Melville

Oblomov by Ivan Goncharov

Fear and Trembling by Søren Kierkegaard

An Enquiry Concerning the Principles of Morals by David Hume

A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce

Demons by Fyodor Dostoyevsky

The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin by Benjamin Franklin

Cry, the Beloved Country by Alan Paton

The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter by Carson McCullers

We think it is a pretty good selection this time around. I predict we are going to need that run-off poll this time around. Please let us know what you think. Let the furor of voting season begin!

Well, I’m still loving my first read with the group. I’ve read 4 of the 8 nominees for second read. Dostoevsky is a favorite author that I intend to study more and wouldn’t mind starting with Demons. Oblomov (and it’s author) I’ve never heard of, but 19th century Russian lit is an area of interest, so I’m reading it either way now.

Looks like some good options. My pre-poll favorites are Demons, Cry the Beloved Country (haven’t read it yet) and Heart is a Lonely Hunter. Not sure how much Ben Franklin lends itself to great discussion, but I’m in no matter what wins.

O-Blo-Mov! O-Blo-Mov! O-Blo-Mov!

I'm reading Russian literature this year. War and Peace, Brothers Karamazov. Would vote for Demons or Oblomov. And also Cry the Beloved Country. Also have not read.

FWIW, another group here was getting a year-long Russian authors project together, and the one Russian in the group said Oblomov was uninteresting.

Not a Russian, but DNF’d Oblomov after reading just over 10% of the text. Whatever it’s supposedly satirizing or making fun of seems so inane, maybe it was timely commentary in his era, but its “greatness” is entirely lost on me. (If anything, we seem to exploitatively lionize the workaholic and romanticize sleep deprivation today, as opposed to parasitic couch potato romanticized as emblem of aristocracy and classiness. So making a buffoon out of someone who defends repose is just off-putting.)

Great choices! It would be fun to read any of them with the group.

Lia wrote: "Not a Russian, but DNF’d Oblomov after reading just over 10% of the text. Whatever it’s supposedly satirizing or making fun of seems so inane, maybe it was timely commentary in his era, but its “gr..."

I haven't read Oblomov, but it keeps coming up on my "ought-to-be read" radar, at the same time that I find the reactions to it so deeply bifurcated. I am curious as to "why."

I'd love every one of them except 'The heart is a lonely hunter'as I just read it for another book club

I re-read Oblomov a couple of weeks ago. I think it's the third time I read it. It's a great novel and would lend itself to interesting discussions on a variety of topics, including how we define a meaningful life. It's also very funny.

I'm not necessarily advocating for it, but to dismiss it as simply being about a couch potato is to miss the point.

Demons!

Lily wrote: "I haven't read Oblomov, but it keeps coming up on my "ought-to-be read" radar, at the same time that I find the reactions to it so deeply bifurcated. I am curious as to "why."

Funny, that deep bifurcation arrives before a book is even chosen! You can't deny the book is powerfully divisive... mediocre and uninteresting books don't generate that kind of sustained controversies.

I hope nobody walks away with the idea that I'm making claims about the objective worth of the book. I didn't get very far before I got too exasperated, which is all I wanted to say: subjectively, the book really rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm drawn by Typee--it would be interesting to learn how an exotic stone-age society was viewed by a 19th-century American.

Second Major Read of 2020 Poll is posted.

You may vote on this poll between May 13 00:01 and May 20, 23:59 Eastern Daylight Time (EDT), UTC -4
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...

Good luck.

Hey everyone, new here, what exactly does this mean?

"May 27 - Jun 2 Interim Read 1 & Acquire book week 1
Jun 3 - Jun 9 Interim Read 2 & Acquire book week 2
Jun 10 - Jun 16 2020 Second Read Start"

So does that mean this book chosen by this poll, likely Demons, will actually begin on June 10? What is the interim read? Thanks!

Garth wrote: "Hey everyone, new here, what exactly does this mean?

"May 27 - Jun 2 Interim Read 1 & Acquire book week 1
Jun 3 - Jun 9 Interim Read 2 & Acquire book week 2
Jun 10 - Jun 16 2020 Second Read Start"..."

The discussion will indeed begin on June 10. The interim reads are shorter works such as plays or short stories chosen my the mods to discuss between larger works if you so choose. These two weeks are also the time everyone participating can acquire the chosen book for the second read.

Garth wrote: "Hey everyone, new here, what exactly does this mean?

"May 27 - Jun 2 Interim Read 1 & Acquire book week 1
Jun 3 - Jun 9 Interim Read 2 & Acquire book week 2
Jun 10 - Jun 16 2020 Second Read Start"..."

At the end of every major read, we do an interim read--a sort of breathing space between the two major reads. It gives people time to pick up the book for the next major read.

An interim read is short, usually lasts a couple of weeks, and is chosen by the moderator. It is not announced beforehand. We select something that is available online so it is easily accessible. The interim read will be from May 27-June 9. The next major read will begin June 10.

Sorry. Our posts must have crossed paths in cyberspace.

Thanks Tamara and Aiden, that's a nice idea. I enjoy the surprise. Looking forward to it.

Demons would be my first choice followed by Fear and Trembling and then Portrait of the Artist.
Cry the Beloved Country is a beautiful book and an easy read.

Jt wrote: "Demons would be my first choice followed by Fear and Trembling and then Portrait of the Artist.
Cry the Beloved Country is a beautiful book and an easy read."

Thank you for having a kind word for Cry the Beloved Country — it does seem rather neglected in the polling, and as you say, it is a beautiful book.

Cry the Beloved Country is deft, agile, and powerful. I"m glad it's getting some attention, though it looks like it's lagging in the polls. But you know what they say about polls....

On the other hand, Demons is a sprawling shaggy beast, half satire, half polemic, with the typical Russian cast of about 200 characters. (That may be a slight exaggeration.) It's an armored personnel carrier of a book. Cry is, I don't know... a '68 Mustang by comparison.

Thomas wrote: "Cry the Beloved Country is deft, agile, and powerful. I"m glad it's getting some attention, though it looks like it's lagging in the polls. But you know what they say about polls....

On the other ..."

Cry the Beloved Country would make an awesome interim read.
The author has an incredible love for humanity which shines through his writing.

Jt wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Cry the Beloved Country is deft, agile, and powerful. I"m glad it's getting some attention, though it looks like it's lagging in the polls. But you know what they say about polls......."

I second it as an interim read! Has been on my TBR list.

One more day to vote!

Poll ends at: May 20, 2020 08:59PM PDT

I should remind everyone that you may change your vote at any time as many times as you like, for free, until the poll closes. This is unlike a presidential election where someone has to pay to change your vote for you.

As frequently happens here, the poll was too close to cal with Demons winning the raw vote and Fear and Trembling winning the weighted vote. The moderators have decided to have a run-off between the top two in order to decide a clear winner.

R*	W*	W%	Book
9	18	32%	Fear and Trembling
11	15	26%	Demons
4	8	14%	Oblimov
3	7	12%	Ben Franklin
3	6	11%	Typee
2	3	5%	Principles of Morals
32	57
*R = Raw Votes
*W = Weighted Votes

The run-off poll may be found here:
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...

Run-off poll voting starts on: May 21, 2020 09:00PM PDT

Tough call! Esp. after reading the recent New Yorker article about Keirkegaard.

Kier-ke-gaard! Kier-ke-gaard! Kier-ke-gaard!

Demons is a good novel and I’d be happy to give it closer study, but I’m open to changing my vote. Can anyone give some reasons to choose Kierkegaard instead? I was raised Catholic, so I understand the subject of Fear and Trembling, but now I’m atheist. Not sure how well I would relate to the religious arguments. I do find philosophy interesting, though.

My reason is purely mercantile. I own a copy of Kierkegaard, but not the Dostoyevsky.

For what it's worth, I was originally pulling for Oblomov, which seems to dovetail with my lockdown lifestyle.

Aiden wrote: "Demons is a good novel and I’d be happy to give it closer study, but I’m open to changing my vote. Can anyone give some reasons to choose Kierkegaard instead? I was raised Catholic, so I understand..."

Kierkegaard is a wonderful writer and very easy to read, but he is very difficult to understand. In that way it is a perfect book for a discussion group, as long as the participants are open and receptive to varying opinions, which I think as a group we are.

The subject of the book is faith, specifically religious faith, which could be off-putting for non-religious readers, but I think his presentation and analysis of the problem is fascinating regardless of personal belief. This is faith for grownups. It isn't blind, and there's nothing easy about it.

Bryan "They call me the Doge" wrote: "My reason is purely mercantile. I own a copy of Kierkegaard, but not the Dostoyevsky. "

That sits perfectly well with the first line of F&T: " Not only in the commercial world but in the realm of ideas as well, our age is holding a veritable clearance sale."

Both books are available for free download in Project Gutenberg. The Dostoevsky is under the title The Possessed or Devils.

Bryan "They call me the Doge" wrote: "Kier-ke-gaard! Kier-ke-gaard! Kier-ke-gaard!"

The best chanting I can imagine!

Make sure to vote in the poll. With 19 votes in so far, there are only four percentage points between the weighted results.

The run-off poll ends at: May 26, 2020 08:59PM PDT

Aiden wrote: "Can anyone give some reasons to choose Kierkegaard instead?"

Because whether you are a theist or not, Stoicism tells you how to live, but Existentialism tells you why.

David wrote: "Aiden wrote: "Can anyone give some reasons to choose Kierkegaard instead?"

Because whether you are a theist or not, Stoicism tells you how to live, but Existentialism tells you why."

I’m interested in Existentialism, I’ve already gotten the book and critical material, but I still voted for Demons. Not sure when another chance to discuss one of Dostoevsky less popular novels will come again. (Hopefully soon if it doesn’t win this time.)

Excellent reasoning, though, thank you. I’m pretty happy with either book winning.

There is a claim that Dostoevsky was a forerunner of Existentialism, at least as he struggled to find meaning in a zeitgeist increasingly coming under threat of nihilistic views, for example, The Brothers Karamozov, which this group has read. I don't know enough about Demons to say if it deals with nihilism as a theme or not, but I have my suspicions. . .

David wrote: "I don't know enough about Demons to say if it deals with nihilism as a theme or not, but I have my suspicions. . ."

It’s probably been 15 years, but I’m pretty sure all of Fyodor Mikhailovich’s work after he was imprisoned (so circa. The House of the Dead onward) dealt with nihilism to some degree. Demons is actually based on a actual political murder from Dostoevsky’s day, but I’ve read that it represents the various philosophies of the times.

Aiden wrote: "Not sure when another chance to discuss one of Dostoevsky less popular novels will come again. ..."

And I'm not sure when a chance to read Fear and Trembling in the hands of so skilled a moderator as Thomas will occur again! (Given that he voted on it the first round, I'm presuming he would moderate.)

I'm having trouble doing any book reading these days, but somehow 160 pages of Kierkegaard (which I did read eons ago) still sounds (scarcely) less daunting than 733 pages of Dostoevsky in the midst of pandemic thinking recovery and COVID related articles. (Why couldn't we have been satisfied with "Cry My Beloved Country"?)

Lily wrote: "Aiden wrote: "Not sure when another chance to discuss one of Dostoevsky less popular novels will come again. ..."

And I'm not sure when a chance to read Fear and Trembling in the hand..."

You convinced me. I just changed my vote to Kierkegaard.

Here is the final count. Fear and Trembling is the winner.
Demons will be included in the next poll.

R	W	W%	Book
17	30	61%	Fear and Trembling
13	19	39%	Demons
30	49

R = Raw vote
W = Weighted vote