The Obscure Reading Group discussion

Here we go! This first week we will discuss the first third of the pie in Magda Szabó's Abigail.

If you have the nyrb paperback, this means pp. 3-114. If you have another translation, it means the beginning of the book to the end of the chapter called "Disaster. The General."

If you have read ahead, please try to confine your comments to this section -- this out of respect for those who are on schedule or behind and don't want to run into that unpleasantness we know as a spoiler.

Enjoy! It's an interesting start!

Not much meat to Gina’s character, except she was one entitled child. I tried to be forgiving but all I could see in my mind was Gina stamping her feet and throwing a hissy fit if she didn’t get her way.

Do teenagers make such wild assumptions? It’s been many a year since I was a teenage girl. i have a sneaky feeling about the paramour Gina thinks she loves. He appears slimy and underhanded. A toady if you will.

Gina’s aunt is a fluffy piece added for laughs, but I was embarrassed by her antics .

What a come down for Hungarians after WWI. The Austro-Hungarian Empire was totally divided and was no more. They were ripe for a Hitler and his ideology. But oh if they only knew the price of human suffering, to be paid first.

Hi, Carol. A couple of questions. When you mention the "paramour," do you mean the one she meets at home and regrets parting with or the teacher at school the girls find so handsome? I assume the former. If so, I thought he was a fly-by, never to be mentioned in the book again, but I could be wrong.

As for entitlement, yes, but I admired how stoic she was in the face of bad news, not wanting first the General (Daddy) and then the school staff to see her cry. Clearly there's a bit of her father's military bearing in her soul, or so it struck me.

As for the war, I was a bit confused as to which side Hungary was on. It seems to me they were run over by the Nazis and a puppet regime was put up, so was the General serving the resistance? It didn't seem to merit much mention. Either that or I missed something.

Finally, a question I wanted to knock about a bit was one of genre. It struck me, as I read Part One, that this was somewhat like a YA book. But then, what exactly IS a YA book? I know it when I read a modern-day one, but then some people consider ANY book with a young protagonist to be YA. I do not. Huck Finn and Holden Caulfield are not stars of YA books in my estimation, but I'm still on the fence about Gina and this book.

All that said, I've always been a fan of books set at boarding schools (like the aforementioned Catcher in the Rye and A Separate Peace) so am enjoying this historical version of Mean Girls. Maybe it's because I had a blue-collar, barely-getting-by upbringing where things like private schools and summer camps weren't even entertained by my family growing up.

I can attest to the 14 year old Gina's thought and actions being authentic. It's been a long time since I was 14, but more recently raised a teenage daughter, so the emotional outbursts and feelings Gina has seem very authentic to me. I get what you say about it feeling like a YA novel so far, Ken, but I'm not sure that genre existed when this was written in 1970. I was not a summer camp/boarding school type either, but if this school is anything to judge by, I'm glad I never experienced it. I know it's wartime in Hungary, but it still feels very "Handmaid's Tale" ish to me. Still have a few chapters to go in this section, so I'll tune back in when I get to the end of this unit.

I definitely picked up on the YA vibe also and, for some reason, and for me this is not a negative, I kept thinking about The Sound of Music. I think this is because of the General in Abigail reminded me of Christopher Plummer's character of the Captain, raising his brood of children during wartime.

I had the same thoughts about Hungary during WWII, not remembering which side it was on, and went to Wikipedia for a history review. They definitely were on the side of the Axis and the regime prior to the war was pro-Germany. The article also states, "Despite some early successes, the Hungarian government began seeking a secret peace pact with the Allies after the Second Army suffered catastrophic losses at the River Don in January 1943". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary....

So far, I am really enjoying the book and I think it will be interesting to see how all the bits tie together.

Darrin, it's funny you mention The Sound of Music as I thought of it, too, only for a different reason. I don't recall his name, but it seems the oldest Von Trapp girl was in love with an Austrian lad who winds up joining the Nazis.

For some reason, the twin K's set me to thinking of this. I'm speaking of two teachers at Bishop Matula. One is Kalmár, young and handsome. The other is König, older and less-regarded. I felt these dueling reputations were set-ups. I suspected that Kalmár might wind up being like that handsome Nazi that came back in the offensive uniform to the Von Trapps while the easy teacher, almost treated like a sub, it seems, might in the end prove heroic.

A classic "reverse expectations" set-up, if I'm right. If not, oh well. It's fun predicting.

As for WWII, my meagre knowledge of Hungary comes from reading Elie Wiesel's book Night. Elie grew up in a small town there called Sighet, and I seem to recall reference to a government replaced with one more to Nazi Germany's liking just before his family was put in transports and shipped off to Auschwitz / Birkenau.

And Diane brings up a good question: Can a book be considered "YA" if it existed before the term "YA" did? Are the traits and the label separate or do they need each other to exist? (I fear this might be chicken and egg territory we're entering!)

@Ken , the soldier she meets before she leaves. I had forgotten the teacher she was half infatuated with.

Austro-Hungarian Empire was a world power before WWI, I think the politicians wanted to restore that glory. They thought they had found an ally in Germany. Hitler was Austrian by birth , correct? Austria and Hungary was one empire, so they chose the side of the good old boys club.

@Angela- Yes I remember the cliques. Now I can recall the hurt of not being included.

I thought this was a YA book. It explores teenage emotions ,with undertones of making adult decisions at an early age. I totally get where the writer is leading us to. The school took over as a parent and guided these girls through horrendous array of events.

I was dreading the coming-of-age formula than the YA one, but after page one nothing about the novel was ringing my 'formulaic' alarms, and I settled in nicely:

The details about the character of the French governess Marcelle, who loved Gina like a daughter, and even taught her a symbolic "mother tongue", before she is whisked away as though she never existed, intrigued me. This character and style of the novel reminded me of Flaubert ('le mot juste'-the right word), not too showy or obsessive, and the the knowledge that Hungary (and especially its large Jewish population--see Fateless by Imre Kertesz) faced catastrophic forces.

I felt Gina's character to be authentic since she came from a life of privilege, and I'm also glad she does a few things to be not necessarily likable. Her comments to Szabo are reprehensible, but have I had similar thoughts and emotions? Sure. This is also helping it stay away from the 'formulaic'. Also, the relationship with her father was peculiar and interesting with so much repressed(?) emotion that when the car horn goes off in a beautifully written sequence(pg. 33-34), I was touched.

Later, the mysteries of the statue and the backgrounds teaching staff kept me intrigued. I wanted to know more about Susanna and the K's (Kalmar and Konig). I made a personal teaching connection to Konig, that when he applied a lighter touch or leash in his teaching style than the other strict staff, the girls saw it as a weakness rather than appreciating it. That's a lesson I've learned the hard way.

The last thing: I couldn't but help to compare the message on the Sorrows of Hungary statue to the protest in America: the voices of dissent.

More sleuthed fun facts:

-Although the Girls School is supposedly set in Arkod, "the oldest university city in eastern Hungary" sounds like Debrecen, Hungary. In fact, Magda Szabo was born there and taught at a Protestant Girls Boarding School in Debrecen (hmmm-). Her memorial museum is also in Debrecen at a school she attended as a child: https://www.inyourpocket.com/Debrecen...#

-Abigail has been turned into a musical and TV series and is her most beloved novel in the country.

Carol wrote: "But oh if they only knew the price of human suffering"
You made me laugh about the slimy toad and pulled the heartstrings on that last sentence. Bravo, Carol!

I share Diane, Angela, and Jeremy's view that the author portrayed Gina's character plausibly and authentically. I thought she did a credible job capturing the struggles of an independent minded adolescent girl who was displaced from her privileged, upper social class upbringing and transplanted into a suffocating, uniformed school setting. Gina was proud and scornful of her peers; she thought them childish and immature as well as superstitious and silly to believe in Abigail. These aren't pleasing traits and I get Carol's impression of Gina as being entitled and spoilt, Yet, it was also clear that Gina was still a minor after all and needed (more than ever away from home) the affirmation of her same-aged schoolmates, whom she unwisely angered and alienated. Perhaps, female readers can identify more with the viciousness and petty cruelties of girls than male readers. In psychological literature, we know that whereas aggression in guys is often expressed physically, aggression in girls is demonstrated relationally. Here, we see relational bullying in all its gory evil. So Ken, yes, welcome to the boarding school of 'Mean Girls!'

I am always intrigued by adolescent characters, and Gina captures my interest. I also understand the cruelty of young girls, especially towards each other. I liked how Gina felt badly after betraying the secret “wedding” game. She disapproves of these immature behaviors and naive beliefs, but she wasn’t at the school long enough to appreciate the need for escape from the harsh and almost inhumane rules of the school. She is very clever but I sense she will need Abigail’s help!

I didn’t think of The Sound of Music. I was thinking about Anne Frank, a young girl from a nearby country and during WWII of about the same age as Gina but actually far more mature.

Speaking of Anne Frank, Sandra, had she lived, she almost assuredly would have grown up to be a writer like Szabo. It was a stated goal, for one, and the diary shows the talent at a young age, for two.

Good sleuthing, Jeremy. Isn't it interesting, too, that Szabo named a character after herself and chose to make her overweight and worthy of the protagonist's ire in the key scene (marrying an aquarium).

I can also relate to your teaching aside. As a guy just out of the trade after many years, I get the Konig conundrum, too: kindness is not always rewarded in teachers. At least not when it is considered weakness, as it is here. Kindness paired with strictness? Another story entirely. Or, to put it in this novel's terms, more like Susanna.

Laysee, I haven't seen the movie Mean Girls but the title is inescapable. What you say about boys vs. girls in schools is something I only learned as a teacher. I grew up in a family of four sons with no sisters, so the ways of the young female mind were decidedly foreign to me.

Once in school, though, I learned from veteran teachers who claimed that boys usually took out their aggressions and grievances against each other in the open, often physically. They also confessed to their misdemeanors more quickly or provided info on other boys should that be the issue.

The girls? Much wilier. Much more psychological. And tough as hell to crack.

There must be a degree of stereotype to this, but I'm only typing what the veterans taught the newbie teachers.

It's interesting to me that this book is reminding all of us of different movies and books. Also, re: the YA label. Those labels are not to be trusted. The Book Thief was a favorite of mine a few years ago, and I wasn't aware that it was YA until later. Had I known, I might not have picked it up, but I would have missed a great book. That shows my prejudice, I know, but I felt that book was mis-categorized, it is most definitely mainstream fiction. As are plenty of other books with adolescent characters. I have stopped at the end of this unit, but I have a feeling things are going to get much more complex for Gina, and the other girls as well. BTW, Ken, excellent job on the division of chapters. The end of this section indicates a turning point in the action.

Ken wrote: "Here we go! This first week we will discuss the first third of the pie in Magda Szabó's Abigail.

If you have the nyrb paperback, this means pp. 3-114. If you have another translation, it means the..."

Well, in the first line itself we read about Gina's life being turned upside down: "The change that came about in her life robbed her of so much it was as if a bomb had destroyed her home." So, I was curious from the onset. Was Gina's actual home bombed? Was this more figurative?

My first consideration is this: What would a 14-year old female value? Family and her growing identity - sometimes with the emphases switched.

Home for her is her family. She accepts that her father is away as a soldier, so that left the aunt who lives an elegant life, and the woman Marcelle who had understood her - in my mind like a sister-confidante or a mother. Ah, there are clues already. Marcelle has been sent away for being French (hence the "bomb'), and Auntie Mimo will be the formative female role model. At fourteen, is Gina a girl with vulnerable moments, which Marcelle understood? Is she now a young lady already old enough to grasp all that has happened so quickly? With Auntie Mimo, she most likely will not learn about the darker realities surrounding her because she herself reflects that she is actually more mature than her aunt, "a widow and by now over 40" who worries about youthfulness and dinner parties.

When I first read this, I laughed at the grief Auntie Mimo had about haircuts, and I highlighted "Life undoubtedly calls for dignity and self-discipline, and for a person to be able to react to things in an adult way it was necessary to distinguish between what is merely unpleasant and what was truly bad, especially in wartime, when all over the world people were dying in their tens and hundreds of thousands. A badly cut lock of hair was an utterly trivial matter." At fourteen, not quite a child but not yet mature, will Gina learn to distinguish what is moral and what is merely style? We now know that many in wartime do not openly exhibit their loyalties or betray their plans. Will she have the intuition to know when to speak up, be silent, or "see beyond" a facade? (*You know, I laughed good-naturedly at the irony of the haircuts earlier, but now I wince when thinking about how haircuts can symbolize some of the encompassing materialism and comfort we are now struggling with -- some feeling deprived of comforts and others struggling to survive.)

Her world was shaken, and there are times she resorts to being a little girl. After all, look at how obstinately refuses to "make it easy" on her father when they part. She loves him more than she loves anyone else in the world, yet she is determined to be petulant when they spend their day together when he takes her to school.

At school, whom will she trust like she trusted Marcelle? Actually, did she really trust Marcelle? After all, Marcelle left Abigail. Will she find the others silly like she finds Auntie Mimo silly? Will she embrace what's silly?

I liked that Gina is a bit independent. Still, I wish she would be a bit shrewder about when to speak up and when to be silent, but then I remember that she is 14 after all. These days, I've seen a great deal of 14-year old behavior. Some of it reflects the petulant Abigail, and other behaviors show the 14-year old with energy and boldness about to do great things.

Jan, I believe you are referring to the character of Gina, since Abigail is the statue that the girls appeal to for help.

Ken wrote: "Here we go! This first week we will discuss the first third of the pie in Magda Szabó's Abigail.

If you have the nyrb paperback, this means pp. 3-114. If you have another translation, it means the..."

Hello, All,

I've read different posts with comparisons to Anne Frank. I recommend a graphic novel that was approved by the Anne Frank Foundation: "Anne Frank's Diary: The Graphic Novel" with excerpts from the actual diary and other text written by Ari Folman. I almost dreaded reading this at first but truly appreciated the way Anne story was related.

Another work I highly recommend is the YA novel "When the Emperor Was Divine" which provides perspectives of the four individuals in a Japanese-American family placed in internment during WWII.

A busy day now awaits me. My Best to All, Jan

Diane wrote: "Jan, I believe you are referring to the character of Gina, since Abigail is the statue that the girls appeal to for help."

What's funny is, before starting the book, I assumed Abigail would be the protagonist, too. Oopsies.

But I liked the fact that the book turns out to be named after a statue, and not just ANY statue, either. A plot-device statue! (And try finding one of those next to the garden gnomes at Lowes.)

Diane wrote: "Jan, I believe you are referring to the character of Gina, since Abigail is the statue that the girls appeal to for help."

Yes, I can't recall if Abigail is introduced yet. I honestly was hoping for more of this, so that may be why more of the name was inserted earlier.

So, what do you think of Gina's development? We have her character established, or do we? In my Kindle copy I've marked, "Whom will she trust?" "Her home has been demolished?" "How will she rebuild her 'home' again?"

I'm drawn to the choices and decisions characters make. I also welcome the challenge of "this is their essential character" vs. "they choose to change." I wonder if Gina is following her essential character through or if she becomes aware of choices, aware of her own potential (light as well as dark aspects).

Do you have a favorite character here? In my mind's eye, I had fun with the actual "Abigail" (again with a nod to that overwhelming presence).

Thank You, Diane! Sheepish but happy, Jan

Ken wrote: "Diane wrote: "Jan, I believe you are referring to the character of Gina, since Abigail is the statue that the girls appeal to for help."

What's funny is, before starting the book, I assumed Abigai..."

Yes, I had fun imagining the garden in which Abigail (the statue) was found. In my mind's eye, it became a refuge from the cold, seemingly gray world of the school.

Jeremy wrote: "More sleuthed fun facts:

-Although the Girls School is supposedly set in Arkod, "the oldest university city in eastern Hungary" sounds like Debrecen, Hungary. In fact, Magda Szabo was born there a..."

Awesome details, Jeremy.
They bring a great deal more context to this story.
My Best,
Jan

Ken wrote: "Diane wrote: "Jan, I believe you are referring to the character of Gina, since Abigail is the statue that the girls appeal to for help."

What's funny is, before starting the book, I assumed Abigai..."

I laughed at that blunder! I still enjoyed the reading, and I have time for some more rereading. As written elsewhere, I came to enjoy the details, the potential "magic" of Abigail. I'm writing now before a Zoom meeting, and from there I'll be heading out again.

Carol wrote: "Not much meat to Gina’s character, except she was one entitled child. I tried to be forgiving but all I could see in my mind was Gina stamping her feet and throwing a hissy fit if she didn’t get he..."

I agree that she was quite petulant in some ways. At 14, she can grow up and regress a bit. I actually tip my hat to Magda Szabó for making her a bit selfish and sulky. If Gina has potential to grow and change - even from this point of immaturity - well then, there's hope for us. (smile)

Sandra wrote: "I am always intrigued by adolescent characters, and Gina captures my interest. I also understand the cruelty of young girls, especially towards each other. I liked how Gina felt badly after betrayi..."

The teenage girls captured my attention, too. In one way, Gina was just as silly, just in her own independent manner. A parallel I saw was that she was far clever than the other girls. The way she views their games and silliness is not so different from the way she views Auntie Mimo; she might not disapprove of the silliness as much as its lack of cleverness. Weddings to inanimate objects? That's as silly as the hairstyles and parties. Then again, didn't Gina meet her handsome lieutenant at one of those silly soirees? Whom do you think she will grow close to despite these silly games set against the somberness of the school?

At the end of this secition, I wonder about the similarities between Gina and her father. The basic descriptions of their physical faces suggests a similar character: their eyes, faces, and mouths. He is a leader and a soldier. Does she have something strengths within herself? I know she's incredibly lonely, but Gina's willingness to speak out may serve her later when she's faced with moral decisions that go against the establishment of collective group-think.

Yes, I thought of Anne Frank numerous times, too. I've mentioned the graphic novel that's come out in recent years. I like it because it shows a bit more of the young girl that Anne was, and it maintains a great many of the original passages. I believe you'd like it, especially because you're drawn to female characters.

This is a video a student sent me a few days ago. The video is a little bit older (7 years) but it is new to my student.

https://youtu.be/3KyvlMJefR4

Angela wrote: "I also thought of Anne Frank a bit. Just one more observation about the first third—the series of heartbreaking losses that Gina experiences, from her mother to Marcelle to her aunt, Feri, her scho..."

Yes, it seems like all the people she cares about are taken from her. She is facing a whole new home, and we know what she doesn't know -- her whole world is about to change. It's already started changing, yet she doesn't know it. Did you laugh different times about her adventures? I like her sassiness, but I wonder if I would have liked her. I hope I would have, but I'm not quite sure. I keep hoping for Abigail to "come to life" for Gina. (smile)

Jan and Angela, such great observations about Gina’s character. She is quite stubborn and perseveres with plans to deal with her ostracism. I caught a glimpse of her softer side when she momentarily sympathizes with König. But then she buckles under peer pressure and rejects him. I am quite taken with his rescue of her in the last chapter of our part one reading. Didn’t we all know a teacher who was “unpopular” but we appreciated him/her? I definitely did. My high school English Literature teacher (1963) absolutely saved me from dropping out of school. The other students made fun of her, and I found myself an ally!

I like to predict the twists in plot but I think it may seem obvious that in some way König and even Susanna will somehow rescue her again (or she rescues them?)

Sandra wrote: "Jan and Angela, such great observations about Gina’s character. She is quite stubborn and perseveres with plans to deal with her ostracism. I caught a glimpse of her softer side when she momentaril..."

Hello, Sandra,

How wonderful that a high school English teacher saved you. Didn't you become an English teacher yourself? Did that influence your teaching? Mine was Sr. Mary Franceline, a strict nun who continued to wear her full habit while others were changing in the late 60s and early 70s. She taught us not only to sing spirituals, folk songs, and choral pieces but to also learn the history and/or stories behind each. Others thought she was too mean, but she was completely fine by me. She died when I was in 4th grade, or perhaps 3rd grade, and I recall crying when I heard the news.

Reading through this again, I'm struck by the complexities Gina exhibits various times. (Ha! I almost wrote "Abigail" again.) I feel a bit more sorry for her as I revisit. This seemed poignant, "In passing over that threshold, Gina was entering her new world, the one that would so totally transform her life; she was like a child being born, or a dying man exhaling his last breath." There's an odd mixture of naivete and pain within her, and I continue to imagine her on an invisible line which determines if she'll grow or regress a bit each day.

Susanna seems to understand this, and she anticipates the emotions and pain from Gina's rough haircut to losing her family ties, and it seems that the girls bolster Gina's courage when she has to let go of her possessions. It seems like they have to create rituals to somehow make sense of everything - or perhaps it's more accurate to say that they made "nonsense" of everything. That is what König seems to do. He seems to take what happens (the girls' pranks), and just move on without being fazed. Is he a fool like they claim? Again, Gina doesn't yet know whom to trust or not, and appearances fluctuate too quickly. None of this new world makes any sense to her.

Ken wrote: "Finally, a question I wanted to knock about a bit was one of genre. It struck me, as I read Part One, that this was somewhat like a YA book. But then, what exactly IS a YA book? I know it when I read a modern-day one, but then some people consider ANY book with a young protagonist to be YA. I do not. Huck Finn and Holden Caulfield are not stars of YA books in my estimation, but I'm still on the fence about Gina and this book."

I guess it doesn't matter to me that one could say the book is a YA book even though I immediately felt that way the first couple of pages in. Should I take it less seriously as writing? I felt myself leaning toward that a little bit but I am enjoying the book so much that I can't wait to pick it up again when I get it back.

This also led me to think about whether the book was intended for a youthful Hungarian audience. It seems as if it was.

Also, I became a little bit frustrated with the cruelty of the other students toward Gina. I realize they had good reason to be angry with her but I really just wanted it to stop after a while. I fear this feeling has more to do with my own childhood than it does some profound insight into the novel. It did bother me nonetheless.

Darrin wrote: "Ken wrote: "Finally, a question I wanted to knock about a bit was one of genre. It struck me, as I read Part One, that this was somewhat like a YA book. But then, what exactly IS a YA book? I know ..."

Hello, Darrin,
As I read this, I also considered the ongoing cruelty, whether outright taunts or exclusion. It seemed over and over that Magda Szabó showed parallels between what Gina and the children experienced in school and what the larger society was facing. Were these bad children? Were these bad teachers? We can recognize them as people we know, perhaps even identify with them. I noticed the repeated Szabó characters and smiled thinking that she inserted herself various ways, not always in a positive light.

Yes, I agree that it was intended for a youthful audience. I personally appreciate many YA novels and Children's Literature, yet I understand that this may not be categorized as that genre. I completely agree with your first statement, "I guess it doesn't matter to me that one could say the book is a YA book even though I immediately felt that way the first couple of pages in. Should I take it less seriously as writing?"

The YA issue is a bit fraught. There is YA and then there is YA. All I know is that borders are now blurred. Also, from a writer's perspective, I see YA as a fruitful endeavor because it, along with Romance, has been one of the most lucrative genres in publishing.

Consider, too, the Harry Potter series. It blew the "Berlin Wall" over. Nobody of any age cared what you labeled it because, quite frankly, it was enjoyable to read. I see this book the same way, and it gives further credence to Diane's comment about The Book Thief, another fantastically successful wall-smasher.

As for the girls' cruelty, it's effective as hell. It annoys readers of empathy (a word we assume every human possesses, even when news on the front pages proves otherwise), and yet we cannot deny that, as a plot device, it turns pages.

I kept wanting to see what Mari Kis had up her sleeve next and how this embargo on all things Gina would end. In this first section, it did NOT end, and there's no denying that Mari Kis's excuse to the authorities when the girls are caught "marrying" objects was ingenious.

Finally, a quote I marked on p. 50, one that gave me reason to believe that Gina was not a simply-characterized spoiled child of privilege. There were many like this, but it proved to me that this child was already somewhat of an adult.

This is in the church when the school is praying. She is complimented by Susanna for her devotion, yet Gina's mind was elsewhere. The comment forces her to think these thoughts:

"She [Gina] was ashamed at having deceived Susanna, however inadvertently. She had been taught to speak the truth, and she was no coward. She opened her mouth to say that she did not deserve these compliments when Susanna turned away and hurried on ahead."

The thoughts of your typical 14-year-old? I would argue they are not.

I think the author fully intended this to be a growing experience for the Youths around this time. She wants them to think for themselves and not take things at face value. In that respect.she does an excellent job. If the youth begin to question then she has done her job.

Anne Frank didn’t come to mind as much as the author ‘s book “The Door”, the book talks about the hidden things behind it and the old woman not wanting others to know. Much like Hungary being hidden from the world. I was thinking maybe this was a philosophical story in the saga of Hungary going back to it’s roots.

Carol wrote: "I think the author fully intended this to be a growing experience for the Youths around this time. She wants them to think for themselves and not take things at face value. In that respect.she does..."

I agree, Carol. It makes sense that Gina would be a character with whom young people could identify. Just as she struggles with issues, they can reflect on their own struggles, maybe agree, disagree, or find nuanced similarities. We (at least I) might grow impatient with the storyline, but feeling estranged from friends can be an inordinately long time for a 14-year old. Not knowing whom to rely on -- the handsome teacher or the foolish one? -- could be realistic for such a young person as well.

I've read so many positive comments about "The Door" here and elsewhere. I know I'll add it to my summer reading list.

Ken wrote: "As for the girls' cruelty, it's effective as hell. It annoys readers of empathy (a word we assume every human possesses, even when news on the front pages proves otherwise), and yet we cannot deny ..."

Hello, Ken,

I like that quote as well. I have always thought 14 could go both ways, and sometimes those "ways" may contradict each other: moving forward one day, backward another. Also, she doesn't know all that is happening in her world, and perhaps not all the other characters know that either. In the first pages she learns that her beloved Marcelle has left, and Susanna seems to be the character most similar to Marcelle. The silliness vs. the maturity: Gina has awareness of both, yet she also has choices about how to act. Those actions are what drive her maturity or regression.

I keep returning to the idea that the pupils are a microcosm of the adults. What is blindness? What is willful self-indulgence? Why are they cruel to each other? Abigail watches them silently. I really wanted her to "magically come to life" -- probably my love of magical realism coming through.

I can attest to the "mean girl" syndrome, as the mother of a daughter and an observer of both her and her friends when in high school. As someone pointed out, it is the only real power girls have over their peers, and it is cruelly wielded when needed. Their fights and disagreements are subversive, and a lot of time parents and teachers are completely unaware, as happens in the boarding school. Of more interest to me is the power of the school and the headmaster to control these student's behaviors and thoughts. I know a certain amount of rules and discipline is needed with any group, but this seems excessive and worrying, such as not allowing any negative comments in letters home, and listening to Gina's telephone conversations with her father.

I am the father of two boys and I just haven't had this experience as a parent. Our sons are roughly 4 years apart and even as kids had very little conflict with each other. As they have become adults and both having similar interests and college majors, they talk more and have interests to share.

Darrin wrote: "I am the father of two boys and I just haven't had this experience as a parent. Our sons are roughly 4 years apart and even as kids had very little conflict with each other. As they have become adu..."

I think you need to see it from the angle of school. I saw plenty of students like your boys (conflict? what's that?), but I also saw my share of students like Mari Kis the Mastermind.

I understand. Also, and I think other have hinted about this as well, I think Susanna has a deeper understanding of what is going on with not just Gina, but all of the students. I don't currently have the book to reference but was Susanna previously a student? Also, as the first third of the book ended I felt like we could see the threads of the later story and ending starting to be put in place.

I've read the first third and am intrigued by the comments here so far. As regards to a YA novel, my personal and very basic idea of that genre is one which is written with perhaps a slightly simpler prose - not necessarily due to the age of the protagonist. In some regards, I do find this novel to fall into that category, based on my own 'definition' of YA. I guess what I'm saying is that if someone asked me, I would certainly tell them it has a YA 'feel' to it.

I keep thinking of Szabo's book in comparison to Atwood's Cat's Eye which I read a few short weeks ago. That book is much more complex, in my opinion. It also examines the relationship between young girls and teens and we are shown the ugly side of those bonds. That book is told from the perspective of an older protagonist looking back at her life - perhaps that's what gives it both a feeling of nostalgia as well as more nuanced examinations of those relationships.

As to my feelings towards Gina... well, I'm not necessarily a fan - yet! She comes across as spoiled, though I do feel for her situation and she has most certainly been thrown into an atmosphere that is very stifling. I do admire her resourcefulness, however, and I feel that she will eventually come round and perhaps shine as a leader of some sort. I could be totally off track here though! I have a 16 year old daughter, and thank goodness she's never exhibited any of these attitudes or behaviors. But, like Diane and Laysee and others have said, I've seen and heard all about this sort of cruelty amongst girls. The funny thing is that in many cases it's also a reflection of how the teen girls' moms behave as well - forming cliques within neighborhoods or school districts. I'm curious as to the background of some of the other girls.

This book does have the YA vibe for me, but that’s not a problem. I read quite a bit of YA for my professional life and am enjoying this one.

This may be unpopular opinion time, but I don’t really blame the other students for their treatment of Gina. As adults, we know her outburst, while partially because she’s a bit spoiled and accustomed to a more sophisticated lifestyle than the others, is also an acting-out due to her loneliness and feelings of displacement. The other students, though, are also children. All they know is that they welcomed Gina with open arms only to have her turn on them and betray one of their most dear and closely-guarded secrets. A big reason she is shunned is because she’s not only disliked, but she’s untrustworthy. These kids have so few pleasures—Gina’s endangering of their silly but harmless marriage game was a huge deal to them. If they did forgive her and accept her back into the fold, what else would she cost them the next time she is out of sorts?

I do think the school is crazy strict! They can’t even wear their own underwear or pajamas? They cut her hair off? She can’t keep pictures of her family? And listening in on phone calls in such a threatening manner! It’s like military school for girls!

I was very invested in Gina's escape attempt and felt all of her anguish at the moment and method of being foiled. So close!!

Hi all, I did finish the first third on time but life has been so intense here lately that I haven't had even much time to think about it let alone shape some contribution to our thread. My husband was in the hospital; a lifelong friend is in her last days; I have several other commitments that take thoughtful time for engagement even in this stay-home era. Okay, all my excuses said, now as for the book:

First of all I'm enjoying it and looking forward to moving into the next third.

I don't know that I have an opinion yet about the YA question. I think it all depends on where the author goes from here. Just because our protagonist is 14 doesn't necessarily make it YA, but that may prove true after all.

My heart goes out to our Gina, actually, despite the signs of being "spoiled," as some have noted. I am willing to give her a big bunch of slack at this point, in part because 14 is actually still pretty young, in my estimation, and she's lost so much of what's normal for her, in the process of being placed at this rather strict boarding school -- but even more I feel sorry for her because so much of what she is encountering is completely lacking warning or explanation. She's unexpectedly been thrown into these big changes and expected to swim nonetheless rather than sinking. Not necessarily fair to ask of a child that age. I find myself very much wishing that her father the General had explained more carefully what his motivations are for sending her there and what he sees coming. Perhaps he thinks she won't keep it to herself and must for security reasons; so probably better not to tell her at all, he's probably thinking. But of course then she comes up with assumptive explanations of her own and is way off course. Cuz little does she realize... That she thinks she has the option of returning home, for example, and would be welcomed back there, is clearly a hope without foundation, but she doesn't know that, or why.

I find the whole thing about "marrying" objects a hoot. Very amusing. A shame Gina is so thrown by her circumstances that she can't get into the fun of it. May have made some friends that way instead of feeling so ostracized. And I'm eager to see the coming role of Abigail the Statue.

I fear given the time and place that we may have dreadful things ahead in the story, but will wait and see how it goes.

By the way. The name Szabó means "tailor" -- I looked it up. It's a common Hungarian name. I'm on a seminary committee in Berkeley that brings a minister/scholar to the U.S. to be scholar in residence for a year each year, usually from Transylvania, which is a homeland for Unitarian thinking, back in the reformation era. It's the one place in the world that has the longest timeline for Unitarian beliefs. That region was a part of Hungary until the treaty that ended WWI, and Transylvanian Unitarians still consider themselves Hungarians, holding onto Hungarian identity, language, and culture, even though they are politically Romanians now. In fact the Transylvanian Unitarians and the Hungarian Unitarians recently merged into one church they call the Hungarian Unitarian Church, though its geographic reach is beyond the border of today's Hungary. This year's scholar and his family are the Szabós. Last year's (male) scholar had a different last name but his wife is a Szabó, too. It's interesting to me that author Szabó named one of her characters that same name, and I am resisting looking to reviews that might explore the meaning of that beyond coincidence or convenience.

Moving forward in the story, I hope Gina is able to make some friends and feel less of an outsider, more understood. We'll see...

Happy reading, everyone. ~Yvonne

Thanks Yvonne for sharing that information about Hungarian Unitarians and the name Szabó! How interesting. Very sorry to hear of your recent family problems. So many comments on this thread that I would love to respond to in person. Jan, I couldn’t agree more about the school and the girls’ behaviors as almost a microcosm of the adult world. And as some of you have said, the political climate at the time will most certainly be connected to Gina’s predicament. And as I mentioned, I keep returning to Anne Frank in hiding and the deplorable concentration camps. How what is happening to Gina may get much worse. I wouldn’t classify Anne Frank’s Diary as young adult literature even though it was written by a young adult. And depending on how this novel develops perhaps I wouldn’t classify it as YA either. I hope the plot and theme become more complex. Coming of Age stories are one of my favorite types to read, though. And the author does a good job of introducing unique characters. I am very curious about Mitsi Horn. Probably not relevant but the name Mitsi means “bitter.”

Yes Yvonne, that was interesting.

Okay, so Goodreads needs an upgrade to allow us to reply to one another properly without a long clunky roll. I’m sure their engineers could handle that...

I’m glad mostly everyone is finding empathy with Gina and that she is having adult thoughts, and I believe this to be the function of this novel. If this is YA, then is Great Expectations YA? It’s closer to Austen or Dickens than The Hate U Give...

And I enjoyed the comparison to Cat’s Eye, Candi: Both coming-of-age, but very different in style.

Not sure how they could improve upon the thread format for discussion purposes. Is there another web site with a better way? Linking it to one of the software engineers at GR might help.

As for the YA talk, I am guilty of bringing it up. I agree it's a non-issue in that a good book is a good book. I only broached the topic because I love issues of definition.

For instance, what is a classic? I've read it's a book that continues to be read after 50 years, but is that THE definition or just ONE definition?

I like the idea that the language is simplified more in a YA book, though again, that could be argued, too. Consider Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea. The language couldn't be simpler, yet no one argues it is YA.

One thing, too, is point of view. If it's first-person or third-limited from a kid's POV (as this book is), you might ask, "Would a teenager think that way and use those exact words?" As a writer at a course I took, I offered up the first chapter of a YA novel I was working on and THAT is exactly what I heard the most about. Something like, "This sounds more like something an adult would SAY or THINK, not a kid. You need to revise it."

Anyway, we can leave the YA topic and focus on other stuff going forward. I have started Section TWO already and run across stuff I can't wait to comment on but am dutifully holding back on until Sunday night.

Sometimes I think the division between discussion matter should be four days instead of seven but, like the thread format, there are no perfect solutions.

I agree about the division format being 4 days instead of 7. I deliberately started reading this later because I knew I would be ready to go on ahead, and I've now finished the second section. I won't comment further on this thread except for general discussion like this one, but now I'll wait to finish until I've commented on part 2, because I don't want to inadvertently spoil anything. It's hard though, because I want to know what happens. After all, the threads are still open for those reading at a slower pace. I really enjoy this group though, so whatever is decided is fine with me.

Re: what is a classic? You've got old classics, modern classics, ancient literature, etc. For me personally, it's anything I myself will happily read more than once.

Yvonne wrote: "Hi all, I did finish the first third on time but life has been so intense here lately that I haven't had even much time to think about it let alone shape some contribution to our thread. My husband..."

Hello, Yvonne,

Thank you for so much context! I like thinking of the author as a "tailor" of words. Also, I appreciate the history you and others have brought forward here. I had not realized that about the Unitarians' history in Hungary and Transylvania. Your additional information makes me now consider how various religious leaders may have reacted to the varying "sides" during WWII. Also, what different stances and philosophies did those varying religions bring to the community? What is loyalty to one's government? What is obedience to one's religious leaders? What responsibilities do those leaders assume during war? In all of those, what is the point of "disobeying" or "standing apart" from the traditional ways?

That last question refers to what I like about Gina in this first third of the novel. Well, it's one of the things I like about her. She is keen-witted and is willing to disagree with "silliness" (a wonderful attribute for moral courage). She is even brash in voicing her opposition (again, not necessarily a bad quality). Still, you pointed out that she is 14, in "flux" in terms of growing up, and unaware of all that is happening in her country overall and in her new school and town. Her father may recognize her quick wit and fast responses but also weigh her age. After all, now with her mother passed away and Marcelle sent back to France, Gina and Auntie Mimo are all of his remaining family. How can he protect a teenage girl and a sister while also leading the military? I return over and again to the similar facial features they both share. I wonder if the father had been equally clever but outspoken at 14; he could have recognized himself in his spirited daughter.

Finally, I see how much you yourself are facing. A great deal of what I enjoy about reading for pleasure and book discussions is discovering what the book reveals about my own life, showing me lessons or parallels that I am undergoing. (Yes, I can analyze, but that can become an extension of my work.) A bit like Gina, you are facing uncertainties that have come upon you suddenly and deep-reaching losses that would be painful any time -- perhaps all the more painful because of this current pandemic. I'm glad you're part of the discussion, and I'll be looking for more of your posts in the next two "sections."

Sandra wrote: "Thanks Yvonne for sharing that information about Hungarian Unitarians and the name Szabó! How interesting. Very sorry to hear of your recent family problems. So many comments on this thread that I ..."

Hello, Sandra,

I'm intrigued by Mitsi, too. She is one of the benefactors of the Matula school, but she is also one whom Abigail smiled upon. I like the connotation of "bitter" for her name because she seems to be light and joyful. As this is my first novel by Magda Szabó, I do not know if she chooses names symbolically. Still, Szabó created different characters with her own name, so I wonder if there is intentional symbolism in her characters' names. When first reading this I wondered what Gina was going to learn from Mitsi - or fail to learn from her. With all the quarreling about "weddings" it was Mitsi who had the courage to actually become engaged so long before when she returned to school with an engagement ring (ahem "trumpery"). She outright "broke" the rules with a bold action, and that first defiance led to a school tradition. Perhaps that tradition lost its original meaning over the years. For Gina, at least, this is sheer foolishness. In fact, Gina doesn't care much for "Abigail" either. For Gina, this statue just reinforces how childlike her school is. * * * This introduction is also the point when I began hoping for magical realism. (smile)

Yes, I returned to Anne Frank over and again here. Another story which I have revisited these past months has been "The Upstairs Room" by Johanna Reiss. It is her autobiographical depiction of her time hiding in Holland during WWII. (She allows another name for her character -- completely understandable.) I first read this when I was nine or ten, and I was touched by this book. I highly recommend it. As I shared with you and the group in the pre-book discussions, I try to understand my father's life as a refugee child during WWII and its aftermath. I never care so much if these stories are YA novels or not; it's critical to understand (or at least try to understand) the effects of war on families and children. Finally, PBS's "World on Fire" caught my attention throughout its first season. The little Polish boy in that series was just a little bit older than my father when his whole world was overturned because of war. Even the name of the Polish boy - Jan - was my father's name (and I'm named for him). I'm intrigued by what I don't know about his experiences, and I have only scant memories of what he shared about those years. I won't go into them here.

Well, Sandra, please continue to be safe and peaceful during these uncertain days. I'm looking forward to next week's discussion. I've made note of Mitsi Horn for follow-up. Even now I still want Abigail to come to life. (smile)

I have finally completed the first third of the book as we are about to begin the next section. I’ve also been following the discussion with interest. My edition of Abigail has a forward or introduction that I did read which has affected my reading a bit so I want to be careful with some comments, at least for now.

I am enjoying this very much (my slowness a result of life not a reflection of my feelings for the book itself.) I have no experience of boarding school but plenty of being a teenager who is not part of the “in” group. Those years are difficult for even the in group, just in different ways. (I was surprised to be so warmly greeted by some of the former in crowd from high school at 50th reunion when I had felt unknown back in school. Perception is all. How this relates to Gina and the other girls? They are all out of their element, Gina more so as the school is new to her. They are all teens with new emotions and hormones as Kalmar is embarrassed to acknowledge when Gina goes to the infirmary. But none of this is dealt with by the school. We see it through Gina’s eyes and her interpretation of others and others’ words. It’s a soulless place for teenage girls. And, while the girls initially are acceptant of Gina, the structure of the school allows them to shun her with impunity, without being caught, unless Gina wants to be tattler again.

Sue wrote: "I have finally completed the first third of the book as we are about to begin the next section. I’ve also been following the discussion with interest. My edition of Abigail has a forward or introdu..."

Hello, Sue,

Your comment, "They are all out of their element, Gina more so as the school is new to her" captures the situation so well. These teenagers are learning about themselves, just like Gina. They are casting their own roles based on each other; not with their families, they have to make do with each other. The teachers and administrators are secondary to their peer relationships. Do you think the educators are aware of these?

Yes, I agree with you: "But none of this is dealt with by the school. . . . It's a soulless place for teenage girls." When I return to the story, there are only a few bright spots that emerge in my mind's eye. You bring up the limited perspective. Ah, such silly characters. Don't they know the history of WWII the way we do? (smile) For these girls (and maybe for the original reading audience), there may have been lessons from WWI they needed to revisit. I wonder if that's one of the reasons Abigail first became "real" during WWI.

I'm glad you're part of the discussion!
With a smile, Jan