Rory Gilmore 52 Book Challenge discussion

I finished Franny and Zooey late last night, I'm afraid I didn't stay up reading because the book was gripping or I couldn't put it down. I wanted to be finished with the book, but more importantly I wanted to be done with Zooey. I enjoyed the style of writing and the clear thought that Salinger put into his work, but the character of Zooey was so absolutely detestable to me that I wanted nothing more than to be done with him.

From the first time we are introduced to him in the bath tub, he gives off an air of arrogance. Leading into his conversations with Bessie where he continually is demeaning and verbally berating her, I could feel my hatred for this character building. Zooey continues this same tone regardless of who he is talking to and seems to only get more degrading as each conversation progresses.

The few moments of kindness that manage to shine through aren't nearly enough to redeem him for me. I did however have an easy time seeing Jess not only loving this character but completely relating to him on an ideological level. Both have a sense of arrogance that pours out of them, thankfully over time, however Jess matures and is able to not necessarily change who he is but is better able to convey his thoughts and ideals. Hopefully within this world that Salinger has created, Zooey with begin to realize with time that talking down to those closest to you isn't the way to go.

What did everyone else think of this book? Which characters did you love/hate? What similarities did you see between characters or settings in the book and Gilmore Girls?

I actually kind of liked this book. I didn't enjoy both the characters attacking a person who cares about them, but I can kind of understand why they feel the way they feel. I don't think their behavior is excusable necessarily, just that I was able to comprehend their feelings of disdain towards the world around them, and the resulting disdain of themselves because of that feeling. I don't think either Franny or Zooey are necessarily good people, but they are not all bad. It's a common thing for extremely intelligent people to have these types of feelings about the world and people around them. I do think Zooey had an excellent point when he told Franny her nervous breakdown happened in too calculated a place, and perhaps she wasn't actually thinking her feelings and reactions through.

One of the things that bothered me the most, but I can still understand why it happened is the "Rebecca"-ish overcast of Seymour over the whole family and everything they do. Every moment was overshadowed and influenced by him. But I imagine that isn't uncommon concerning the lost of a child/sibling. Thankfully I haven't had to experience that myself.

I really enjoyed Salinger's writing style though; it felt very natural and enjoyable. I can definitely see some Franny in Rory. But I see A LOT of the Glass family in Paris. I too can imagine Jess relating to Zooey. I would like to think the events of the story would lead both Franny and Zooey to grow and soften a bit. Thankfully Jess matures over the course of the series, because I really enjoyed his character at the end.

I guess I liked the book so much because honestly I found myself seeing a lot of similarities between myself and the titular characters (but I'm not near as intelligent or well read). It was a little eye-opening that I may be treating the people I care about like that, so I am going to make sure I am less condescending and try to be a little more open with them.

I'm not remotely done yet but I think there's a lot of Franny and Lane in Rory and Dean's eventual demise. All of those small moments where Franny is trying to convince herself that she's in love with Lane -- trying to hold him closer by grasping his hand or the letter repeating ad nauseum how she loves him, the odd nervousness -- all reminded me of Rory's issues while falling out of love with Dean and moving on.

Rebecca wrote: "I'm not remotely done yet but I think there's a lot of Franny and Lane in Rory and Dean's eventual demise. All of those small moments where Franny is trying to convince herself that she's in love ..."

You are so right about that! I think that while Rory may care for Dean, she still views him as her intellectual inferior, which is why she was so attracted to Jess, who could hold his own against her.

This was my first exposure to Salinger, and I have to say that it has me dreading the Catcher and the Rye. I enjoyed the Franny part of the book, and I definitely agree with Rebecca about the similarities between Rory & Dean and Franny & Lane. My enjoyment of the book pretty much ended with the first part.

Like Jacob, I detested Zooey and his smugness. His only redemption in my eyes came from the final few pages. His attempt to undo his previous attacks on Franny's character left me with some hope that maybe he wasn't the selfish ass he made himself out to be the whole time. For the first half of the book, I drew many similarities between Franny's crisis and Rory's issues with Yale in season 6. However, at the end of the book I felt no clearer about WHY Franny was falling apart so completely. I wasn't able to connect to her reasoning the way I was able to connect to Rory's.

Jennifer, your connection between the Glass family and Paris is nothing I ever would have thought of, but it is spot on! I can see a lot of Jess in Zooey as well. The banter between Mrs. Glass and Zooey had me reminiscing a lot about the arguments between Emily & Lorelei.

I am thinking that perhaps Salinger just isn't my style, but I will try to power through the next week!

I enjoyed this book. I definitely agree with Jennifer that they way they treated their mother was fairly awful, but it has to be taken into consideration that she appeared to be a fairly simple woman with highly intelligent children that she let raise each other. Not that it's her fault necessarily, but that hardly leads to a normal family relationship or even the ability to appropriately handle social situations. In that way, I was reminded a lot of Paris too-she was highly intelligent and was deprived of normal family functioning, making social interaction difficult.

I think that Rory's and Franny's situations were similar, as far as questioning exactly what life means for them. They had a straight arrow direction for so long that as soon as something (or someone, i.e. Mitchum) upsets that, it sent them into a tailspin and they basically had to re-evaluate life.

I agreed with Zooey that Franny's situation was far too staged to be real. She wanted the attention and knew that she would get it from her mother and brothers. A calculated mental breakdown, but that is actually a fairly common idea, especially in college.

Jacob wrote: "I finished Franny and Zooey late last night, I'm afraid I didn't stay up reading because the book was gripping or I couldn't put it down. I wanted to be finished with the book, but more importantl..."

I disagree. I enjoyed Zooey. I liked how he knew perfectly well how narcissistic he is and how he tries so hard to combat it. Theres even a line, while he's shaving, where he doesn't look at his face because he doesn't want to admire himself. He has a deep sense of self loathing for the man he was brought up to be, and the man he is. Yet, he is so caring. He loves his mother and she knows it, that's why she doesn't get offended by his words. She bothers him and pokes at him and he never actually kicks her out. He continues to discuss how they will intervene and attempts to help Bessie understand what Franny is going through, although he doesn't expect her to understand completely because she doesn't have the same level of intelligence as her children.

Especially since he was rereading his brothers letter in his first part to help Franny through her breakdown. He has all intention of helping and caring, yet he plays a character outwardly of being negative and arrogant. I found him sincerely profound. It's incredible that throughout, as his character seems so egotistical, he teaches Franny that she must love everyone, despite their egos. He says at one point "no one is perfect" and he means it. He intends to teach Franny that she can't expect people to be perfect, even Jesus isn't perfect.

He points out his own flaws constantly, showing that he is bored with people and arrogant, and yet he still likes them. He tries to show Franny the distinction between hating someone and hating something about someone.

Moreover, he wants her to follow her passion. He wants her to accept that nothing she chooses to do will ever be perfect, but she must continue with the things that she enjoys, and forgive herself if they happen to be egotistical things. That no one is perfect, and she doesn't need to be either.

The fat lady, representing all audience members who she is bringing joy to with her trade, deserve to be recognized and respected. If not solely for being present in her life.

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On a separate note, Salinger is a genius when it comes to description. I could see all the scene in my minds eye, and understood every nuance. It was beautiful