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Abigail Archives > June 8 - 14: Discussion #2 of 3: The Second Third of ABIGAIL

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message 1: by Ken (last edited Jun 07, 2020 06:08PM) (new)

Ken | 797 comments Mod
If you have the nyrb edition translated by Len Rix, this discussion thread covers pp. 115 - 234.

If you're using another translation, it covers chapters beginning with the start of "At the Hajda Patisserie" and finishing at the end of "Documents."


message 2: by Carol (last edited Jun 08, 2020 12:56AM) (new)

Carol | 207 comments Gina redeemed herself. She is growing into an interesting person. Going on the theme of the use of names . Mitzi Horn has an interesting interpretation. Mitzi as you know means bitter , so I googled bitter horn. Came up with something in St Jeromes Chronicles no. 25 about bitterness being raised up as a horn of salvation. Interesting.


message 3: by Sandra (new)

Sandra L L. | 180 comments Mod
Now that takes the name symbolism to a fascinating place, Carol!


message 4: by Diane (new)

Diane Barnes At this point, I have two candidates for the real person behind Abigail. Can't wait to see if I'm right. It does seem that in the chapter "Documents", Gina is being given a lot of responsibility and Abigail is trusting her with the lives of four of her classmates and their families. We also know a little about Gina's future life, with comments like "In later years, Gina would remember...". And although we don't know what happened, we are informed that the General's visit to inform Gina about why she must stay at the school was the last time she ever saw him. The truth did indeed set her free, since it put an end to her wild speculation about motives and reasons and allowed her to open herself to her classmates and apologize for her behavior at the beginning of school. The air raid practice was the catalyst for the class to come together. It seemed to be a turning point and source of maturity for all of them.


message 5: by Diane (new)

Diane Barnes I'm also intrigued by the side story of the Susanna, Konig and Kalmar triangle. Is it romantic or political? The school, described over and over as "a fortress" seems to be not only a prison but a sanctuary as well. The General chose wisely. I really loved his character. I wonder if he is based on a real person?
A personal thanks to all of you willing to research the background history and name origins. I never do that til I'm finished, and then just cursorily, so I appreciate those of you who interrupt your reading to do so. That's the beauty of a group read.


message 6: by Ken (last edited Jun 08, 2020 06:09AM) (new)

Ken | 797 comments Mod
I have two suspects for the identity of Abigail, too, and I'm OK identifying my guesses because I don't consider a guess as a spoiler. Still, as some of you might disagree and not WANT to read my speculations, I'll use the HTML code to put it in spoiler brackets so you can click and read or pass on it till later.

(view spoiler)


message 7: by Diane (new)

Diane Barnes Interesting. Only one of my guesses is the same as yours, although I'm betting heavily on that one too. I am wondering if we will see Gina's Budapest love interest (Zuri?) at some future point. Her father wouldnt allow him to come to the house, so he must have had a reason to distrust him.


message 8: by Sandra (new)

Sandra L L. | 180 comments Mod
I have predictions too so I an not looking at yours yet, Ken. But speaking of names,”Abigail” means “father’s joy.”


message 9: by Sandra (new)

Sandra L L. | 180 comments Mod
I also wish to add that surely those of you who are poets can hear poetry in Szabo’s prose? I heard rhythm and rhyme in her sentences even before Cindy mentioned she wrote poetry. Did you?


message 10: by Carol (new)

Carol | 207 comments Yes I noted the lyrical language. It makes for lovely sentences .


message 11: by Ken (new)

Ken | 797 comments Mod
I'd love to check out her poetry, even though poetry through a translator darkly is never the same as poetry in its own language.

In Message #4 north of here, Diane mentions the air raid. I have to admit that this was the first clunker for me in the book. It seemed so swift, the whole bit about everyone letting bygones by bygones.

I admit the utter fear brought about by an air raid might do the trick, I just don't think Szabo drew the scene out enough to give it justice and make it more believable. I had to read it twice to see if I missed something after the girls were suddenly hugging.

Realize this might not be a popular opinion, but....


message 12: by Sandra (new)

Sandra L L. | 180 comments Mod
I agree, Ken. I actually noted in the text that their complete turnaround in their attitudes towards Gina was unbelievable to me. But I also thought Gina’s complete turnaround after her father confided in her was also unbelievable.


message 13: by Diane (new)

Diane Barnes I didn't find it unbelievable at all. It was a contrivance by the author, for sure. But girls are quite emotional and the drama of the situation would have driven some of them to reconsider actions that may have been getting tiresome to continue anyway. Gina apologized first, letting the others save face by accepting. Mari Kis was the undisputed leader of that group, and the driving force behind the shunning of Gina. So once she forgave Gina and accepted her, the others just fell into line.


message 14: by Sandra (new)

Sandra L L. | 180 comments Mod
Funny. Well I raised four sons, no daughters, and I don’t recall myself being so moody—but I probably was!


message 15: by Darrin (new)

Darrin (darrinlettinga) Ken wrote: "I'd love to check out her poetry, even though poetry through a translator darkly is never the same as poetry in its own language.

In Message #4 north of here, Diane mentions the air raid. I have t..."


I agree that this was a bit clunky. I was like wait, what? There was only a brief sentence or two about what was going through their heads prior to this reconciliation but to my mind the set-up for this was too brief. Mari Kis, in particular, was such a 180 change of heart that I had trouble believing it.

Regardless, I am happier that they have reconciled. Also, still liking the story a lot.


message 16: by Cindy (new)

Cindy Newton | 18 comments I am enjoying the story, as well. I know I took up for the girls' shunning of Gina in the last thread, but as teenagers often do, they pushed it too far in this section! Gina had my sympathy as they moved from isolation to emotional torture. It did end rather abruptly, but as Angela pointed out, teenage girls are mercurial creatures. I tell you what is unrealistic--that these 15-year-olds could be locked up together day in and day out with no drama between them? No nitpicking or backstabbing? No arguing or fault-finding? Now that's unrealistic!

I looked at your spoiler, Ken, and completely agree with you. I think the second choice is a long shot, but I can't even imagine it NOT being the first choice. Maybe that person's obviousness actually makes it a red herring, but if that were the case, I would think the actual culprit would be someone even less likely than your second choice. I did notice that it was pointed out that (view spoiler), and I found that to be a somewhat pointed detail to include.

She kind of buried us in an avalanche of foreshadowing there at the end, didn't she? We find out that Gina's father dies in a prison camp, and that her location is actually exposed to the enemy by Banki, another student, in an event that hasn't happened yet (I don't believe?). Gina obviously survives the war and goes on to have a family of her own. For me, that actually deflates a lot of the suspense. The only mystery left is to find the identity of Abigail!


message 17: by Carol (new)

Carol | 207 comments There is still mystery for me, even though I have an idea about the ending and which direction it takes. The culmination of events leading up to the air raid can lead to a quick reversal of emotions . So for me the scene was believable.


message 18: by Diane (new)

Diane Barnes The comments about the future of Gina is an interesting concept. It lets us know that she will be fine. The title of this book indicates the main focus, the identity and the "why" of Abigail.


message 19: by Ken (new)

Ken | 797 comments Mod
I viewed your spoiler, Cindy, and it's a good point -- one I overlooked.

I also noted a briefer than brief oddity involving a character named Mraz who looked at Gina longer than was appropriate. I think he was involved in clean-up for broken glass (the aquarium incident, which IS a mystery still to be reckoned with, as is the delightful fiasco with church hymns). So I said to myself, "Why did Szabo drop this weird detail about this minor character into the narrative?"

He could be a good guy or a bad one, but it's hard to believe his name won't come up again in Part 3.


message 20: by Darrin (new)

Darrin (darrinlettinga) In regard to potential Abigails, I also lean toward Cindy's pick but also one of Ken's.


message 21: by Carol (new)

Carol | 207 comments Biting my tongue on so many of these comments. That’s what happens when you finish ahead of time. So I am shutting down for now and just reading the comments of others.


message 22: by Sandra (new)

Sandra L L. | 180 comments Mod
Carol, that’s why I don’t read ahead! But I am happy you also appreciate Szabo’s lyrical use of language. Sometimes I find her sentences distract me from the meaning of the words. Such a beautiful rhythm. What other elements of style have you noticed in the book? I live to talk about style almost as much as plot, character development, and setting. It’s clear she uses symbolism.


message 23: by Sue (new)

Sue | 255 comments I haven’t finished this section yet so probably shouldn’t have read the whole thing but it’s so interesting. My only frustration is being unable to see the spoilers.

And while I agree that the air raid drill was an abrupt conversion to unity in the fifth year class, I think there were a few prior mentions of Tormer with a troubled look or other girls appearing concerned about the continued ostracism of Gina. Her sudden change I found easier to accept; her father’s talk with her made this her home, these people her family no matter what.


message 24: by Darrin (new)

Darrin (darrinlettinga) I am beginning to think that Abigail is actually two people working together.


message 25: by Cindy (new)

Cindy Tebo | 84 comments I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the scene after the practice air raid was contrived. The girls just suddenly forgiving Gina after all the effort they put into getting even with her didn't ring true with me. There needed to be more of a transition.

A note of trivia. St. Abigail is the patron saint of bees which I'm sure has nothing to do with Szabo's choice in naming the statue Abigail.

Changing the topic again...I think I know who is playing Abigail. He reminds me of the Hungarian version of Inspector Clouseau. Can you guess which character I'm referring to?

Anyway it's just a hunch.


message 26: by Jeremy (new)

Jeremy | 12 comments Finally caught up after designing virtual curriculum for a summer online course that has no textbook. Fun!

So Gina is quickly coming of age, her father practically demanding it... The air raid worked for me. The girls behavior was already at a tipping point. I wonder if Kalmar will stay true to Gina’s St. George archetype.

My favorite section was the country outing. They sing to the young men heading out to war, “thinking of the grand order of nature to which mankind had been subject since the dawn of time. (foreshadowing?). Later this section was ripe with romantic tension, before the heart stopping second two characters seem on the brink of destruction, and then the resulting emotions that pour from that episode. I’m now more interested to see what Susanna will do with so many looking on at her. It’s interesting how observant young men and women can be.

The satire scandal and the hymn debacle were less interesting to me. Here’s to a finale that ties up all these threads in an artful way!


message 27: by Sandra (new)

Sandra L L. | 180 comments Mod
Does anyone else find much of the book...well... I don’t know...not very deep? I want to defend it. I want to acknowledge it’s certainly a worthy time period. I just hope it’s leading us somewhere suddenly brilliant! I don’t find many of the events as interesting as in most coming-of-age novels. So much time is spent on the essay assignment and its consequences for example...


message 28: by Ken (last edited Jun 10, 2020 03:56AM) (new)

Ken | 797 comments Mod
Cindy -- It appears we agree on the Abigail mystery (if you go back up and click my hidden SPOILER guess). Inspector Clouseau is a good way to describe him. Much too obvious in his bumbling to be a random characterization on the part of the author, methinks.

Jeremy -- Glad the virtual curric. for the virtual new school year is ready. I saw in today's NY TIMES that Paul Krugman (one of their columnists) said the U.S. as a country has failed the famous "marshmallow test," wherein kids are unable to postpone eating a marshmallow even knowing they'll get MORE if they just wait. All this opening early because we don't have the will is the test we're failing, and it probably ensures schools will be in the same position come Aug./Sept. (that of virtual meetings only or staggered schedules with half the students attending on given days or weeks). This is what happens when politics is somehow mixed with science and medicine, but I've vowed (thanks, Jan) to leave politics out of the mix here, so I'll leave it at that.

Oh. And I agree with you about the hymn debacle not exactly being heart-stopping stuff. It's almost unworthy of a resistance fighter's time, actually. Who cares what a congregation sings? Go out and blow up Hitler, why don't you.

Sandra -- Not very deep? It is the greatest fear of ANY book group, that the selected book will not be "chewy" enough for discussion. On the one hand, I think the mysteries and the historical connections have given the book plenty of grist for our mills. On the other, I can see your point. The book is more of an entertainment (though, to my mind, an enjoyable one). I will venture this, though. I don't think the characterization is much. To me it is more of a plot book.


message 29: by Diane (new)

Diane Barnes I think this is one of those books where you need to read between the lines, which makes it very deep indeed for me. I have finished at this point, but I wish I had time to immediately re-read this, just to pick up on the things I missed the first go round because I was concentrating on plot. I also think it would have more meaning for all of us if we knew more about the history of Hungary. As a trivial aside, there was a whole category on Jeopardy! last night on the history of Hungary. Made me aware of how little I actually knew.


message 30: by Ken (new)

Ken | 797 comments Mod
Diane wrote: "I think this is one of those books where you need to read between the lines, which makes it very deep indeed for me. I have finished at this point, but I wish I had time to immediately re-read this..."

Cool re: Jeopardy!. We tape it so probably will see it tonight or tomorrow night (typically we watch sets of two and zip through the commercials).

As for rereading being a revealing exercise, I think this exact point was made in the book's introduction! Glad you enjoyed it, Diane. Can't wait for your input in the final thread when we're all finished.


message 31: by Darrin (last edited Jun 10, 2020 09:12PM) (new)

Darrin (darrinlettinga) Overall, now that I am 75% of the way in, I am really enjoying the book but I agree with the idea that there is not a lot of depth.

I have a confession. I have never read The Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank. It was just never a book that was required in any of my classes, even in middle or high school. Obviously this is something I will have to rectify. It is hard for me to see the comparison given that but I do like the WWII backdrop of this novel and especially because it is set in a country that we don't often have to choose from as fiction fans as Angela notes above.

I was listening to an author talk with a Korean author, You-Jeong Jeon, on Youtube and there was a question from the interviewer regarding whether she was involved in the process of translation. The author's answer was interesting to me because I really hadn't thought of it this way. She stated, "Not at all. Translation is another form of creative writing, I consider it a genre unto itself, and there is no reason for me to be involved."

I have carried this with me in my head since I watched this several days ago and I have been admiring the translation of Abigail ever since. Speaking from a linguistics aficionado point of view, I would think it would be more difficult to get the translation right for a text written in a language like Hungarian or Korean because they are completely unrelated to English. Sometimes I read Korean novels that have been translated into English that are clunky or use anachronistic idiomatic phrases or words.

Abigail, on the other hand, feels seamless. I don't feel like I am reading a novel in translation so much as an original English language piece of fiction. So, kudos to Len Rix, because I think he nailed it. The pacing is good, the characters and story are interesting and I don't see any lumpy, bumpy English phrasing or obsolete words.


message 32: by Jeremy (new)

Jeremy | 12 comments Ken- Take that Hitler! Your comment made me laugh.
Virtual school: I agree with you, although there has been no decision in our high schools. Even if they open, it will only take a few infected souls to bring it all down again (pre-vaccine). But virtual schooling is flawed. I have a group of college students all on academic probation right now, so they’re already down on themselves and the system probably, and it’s hard to create an authentic relationship that they can trust or buy into. It’s so much easier to just let go...


message 33: by Darrin (new)

Darrin (darrinlettinga) Ken wrote: "I viewed your spoiler, Cindy, and it's a good point -- one I overlooked.

I also noted a briefer than brief oddity involving a character named Mraz who looked at Gina longer than was appropriate. ..."


Ken, I reached that point in the novel last night and remembered that the word, "mraz", in Russian, means scum. I haven't reached a point where more is revealed about this character but it would be interesting to know if this character ends up being a bad guy.


message 34: by Jan (new)

Jan (janrog) | 271 comments I, too, have found new trainings, webinars, and plans underway. Despite the "rust" that built up and required review, I am glad I read early because I actually have competing tasks now. I'm sharing some thoughts here, hoping to support with various quotes from the story along the way.

1) I find so many little nuances that I like about these characters. They contrast with Gina's self-centeredness, which can often turn to meanness. One detail that I liked was Konig sighing, "The poor things" when seeing the little fish from the smashed aquarium. Gina almost completely missed this comment, and when she did pay attention to it, we learn "whatever pity she herself might have had for the little lace-tails vanished at the sight of his grief. My God, she thought, I hope he isn't going to weep into the bucket! All that emotion for a few fish!" Yes, there is hope for Gina, yet there is also potential for meanspirited alliances and scorn. Consider the people that she overlooks because she is drawn to power and glamor: she almost completely overlooks Mraz yet stays infatuated with the faraway lieutenant and the St. George-like Kalmar who pays attention to her when she satirizes his "enemy." That clever-yet-biting composition depiction of Konig shows how she maneuvered others for attention, and it could have resulted badly for others altogether. In these moments of self-centeredness, she is becoming silly in the ways that she scorned the other girls when she first arrived. More importantly to us readers, she is also showing potential for cruelty to others -- whether or not she knew or didn't know the full story.

2) Having pointed out Gina's potential for meanness, I realize she also has potential for kindness. An important plot point was having her meet with her father again before he left. She was excited at first, but then she began to worry about him. Though he kept his conversation normal while reporting what was happening to their family and friends, she recognized something was troubling him. She remembered the final religious service she attended with her father, and we learn that grown and mature Gina reflects, "It was always a source of happiness to her that the person she had loved more than anyone else in life. . . . had had a goal and had fought for it, never bothering to ask whether or not it was his own will that he was following or whether the purpose behind it accorded with God's. He knew what he wanted, and he strove for it until the hour of his death."

This virtue and courage from her father are what she comes to value. These are the qualities we may believe she cultivates as she grows up. A clue of such responsibility comes when she helps some of her classmates.

3) I read the "spoilers" different people presented here, and I like the explanation behind all of those! Nope, no spoilers for me. I'm not sure who mentioned that perhaps two people were "Abigail" and I like that interpretation. Even if that is not what does or does not prove true in the later chapters, it is intriguing to think that this statue/symbol could be a sign for others in a resistance, a fellowship of sorts. After all, she had first appeared in WWI. Mitsi had lost her husband and then son to war. There are various clues that the teachers may have been soldiers or young students during WWI. These adults have seen the horrors of war, so they may be a team behind the "magic" of Abigail. (Yes, by the middle of the novel I abandoned the hope that she would come to life. sigh)

4) I also noticed at first how this is not so difficult to read, yet I'm enjoying this. I especially appreciate all the research, interpretations, and then parallels people bring to this. I recall Sandra had posted one of her poems early on, and I've returned to that various times. Iike the observations within it, and then I like the ending which looks towards a hopeful future. Maybe Gina is like that, too. Each day when I learn even more of the political turmoil, I also consider the numerous parallels and comments regarding our current world; I often shudder when I think of those.

Is this a light novel? Well, so what of it? This isn't intense the way that "Jude The Obscure" proved to be for us, yet it was the winner among our selections and votes. As I recall, various people mentioned that they were seeking a lighter tone, which may be what we need during these times of pandemic, thousands of "quiet deaths," and escalated violence and long-standing inquiries and desperate frustrations. I like this novel. I like Gina, flaws and all. Maybe I -- and we -- are not so different from Gina.

Well, a 10:00 Zoom meeting awaits me, and then I have another after that. Even if I do not have the time to write, I'll follow your comments, Everyone! I'm looking forward to your insights.

A smile to all,
Jan


message 35: by Jan (new)

Jan (janrog) | 271 comments Just can't help myself. New reading suggestion for those of you who are making such keen political observations. I was going to suggest this for our reading selections, but I had already read it so wanted to enjoy a new literary work.

Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here" had me laughing at first, wincing in the middle, and shuddering by its ending pages. I believe many of you may like this work. (I think Konig would - smile)


message 36: by Jeremy (new)

Jeremy | 12 comments Jan, love the brilliant insights, and that quote about her father was great! Your paragraph about Gina reminded me of the sermon about the rose with thorns, so maybe that is a good symbol of her...
Hope your zooming goes well. If I could only make those mandatory....


message 37: by Sandra (new)

Sandra L L. | 180 comments Mod
Great comments! I really enjoy our “discussion” perhaps even more than the book. But I agree that there is much to like. Szabó combines mystery, politics, religion, youthful characters, all in beautiful prose. I know no language but English(and a few Chichewa words from my two years in Malawi), yet this translation reads easily and to me almost like poetry. I have tried finding Szabo’s poetry but with no luck. I wonder how the story might differ if told in first person from Gina’s point of view. Sometimes when I read how a character has matured and changed, it seems more believable if the character tells it. I am thinking about Holden in “The Catcher in the Rye” and Anne Frank. Probably just my own personal preference. The last chapter “Documents” intensifies the plot, and I am curious how it all ends. It was a good choice for us to read, and I have learned a bit about Hungary! I am thinking about you teachers and hoping things improve soon for your and your students.


message 38: by Sandra (new)

Sandra L L. | 180 comments Mod
Jan, I appreciate your reference to the poem I shared about 1945. I see many similarities in “Abigail.” The train story with the soldiers and the girls watching reminded me of my poem.


message 39: by Ken (new)

Ken | 797 comments Mod
There is also a scene in Night where the prisoners watch German soldiers and single German girls walking by together sharing laughs, flowers, the sunny day, etc., all in the name of irony.

The prisoners? They might as well be rocks.


message 40: by Jan (new)

Jan (janrog) | 271 comments Sandra wrote: "I have predictions too so I an not looking at yours yet, Ken. But speaking of names,”Abigail” means “father’s joy.”"

I love the symbolism of that name! I knew you addressed Mitsi's name as well, and I love that. There were many others that I'll need to return to find among the discussions. It seems more and more that these names were chosen intentionally with symbolism, whether true or ironic.


message 41: by Jan (new)

Jan (janrog) | 271 comments Jeremy wrote: "Jan, love the brilliant insights, and that quote about her father was great! Your paragraph about Gina reminded me of the sermon about the rose with thorns, so maybe that is a good symbol of her......"

Carol wrote: "Gina redeemed herself. She is growing into an interesting person. Going on the theme of the use of names . Mitzi Horn has an interesting interpretation. Mitzi as you know means bitter , so I google..."


Hello, Jeremy, Sandra, and Carol,

I like this story, yes, but I really would like to know more about Gina's family, growing smaller now that we've learned about her father's death. I have many more questions about her father. What were the general's motives for his resistance? He trusted someone deeply with his daughter's life, and -- while I guess as to who that is -- what relationship did that person formerly have with him?

Do you think Gina grows to become like Mitsi? After all, Mitsi had lost loved ones in war as well. She -- Mitsi -- seems quite light-hearted but is much more of an activist than the others realize. She is also wealthy/prominent enough to assert some power. The symbolism of her name shows depth the others may miss altogether, and that seems to suit her just fine.

In this section, it seems that Gina's lost confidante of Marcelle (from the first few pages of the novel) has been replaced by Susanna, but Gina grows a bit inconsistent towards her. Already her personal family is growing very small, and we learn of her father's death even before she learns of it. Will she be able to create a new family? I see how Konig helps protect her, but she is comfortable deriding him. He sees how clever she is, and he seems to put up with quite a bit not just from her but all the students.


message 42: by Jan (new)

Jan (janrog) | 271 comments Sandra wrote: "Great comments! I really enjoy our “discussion” perhaps even more than the book. But I agree that there is much to like. Szabó combines mystery, politics, religion, youthful characters, all in beau..."

Jeremy wrote: "Jan, love the brilliant insights, and that quote about her father was great! Your paragraph about Gina reminded me of the sermon about the rose with thorns, so maybe that is a good symbol of her......"

Hello, Sandra,

1) First, thank you for your encouragement. In wizened honestly, I'm not worried about "normal" as much as keeping my job and benefits right now. Hence, I'll do as much as I can and keep a steady pace. Working on tasks each day and not dwelling on this will keep me upbeat -- allowing me to work on the tasks yet another day. 'Nuff said about that. (smile) The other teachers very well may have different perspectives, and I look forward to reading them.

2) Yes, Sandra, I just returned to your poem again. As I've referenced elsewhere, I'm trying to read now to make connections to my personal life, and I'm now drawing those parallels all over the place.

I imagine Gina's observant eyes a bit like yours (". . . I'm too transfixed. . . . My eyes are fixed on the train.") when she notices all that's going on. She's observant even for those people she doesn't care for - paying enough attention to ridicule Konig, to pay attention to Susanna's comings and goings, to win over the other girls again.

Observing the teachers' interactions, I think of the soldiers returning to "farm fields, to mothers, to anxious sweethearts" but then become saddened thinking of Gina's father when revisiting your lines, "those who didn't make it home by Christmas" and train's "whistle, low and long and mournful."

You yourself give a clue about your later life -- Were you a Peace Corps volunteer in Malawi for two years? -- with the last line, "And I'm already thinking about leaving." A parallel that we find in the story here is that Gina grows up, begins her own family, and reflects on her childhood.


message 43: by Jan (new)

Jan (janrog) | 271 comments Darrin wrote: "I am beginning to think that Abigail is actually two people working together."

What makes you think this?
Reading this, I wondered different times who Abigail was to discover that key characters / potential candidates were different places when the statue sent messages. Various times it could have been X, Y, or Z.

I like your proposed idea. Could Abigail be a symbol for the Resistance? Are different people working together to do Abigail's work?


message 44: by Jan (new)

Jan (janrog) | 271 comments Angela wrote: "As a former adolescent girl and mother of a now fully formed daughter, I can attest to this sort of capriciousness. :)"

Hello, Angela,
I smiled a bit reading this. I don't have children, but I come from a family of nine children, the five youngest of us being girls.

Oh, yes, there are many "queen bees" and "wanna-bes" among the girls at Matula. They are finding ways of making sense of their school, the world that is changing all around them, and their own growth. They live by the rules (complex rules at that) about who belongs and doesn't belong. The individual is not as important as their social relationships, and Gina is just the newest girl to this society.

I believe Gina's maturity is shown action when she comforts Banki, begins to recognize (though she cannot articulate what she recognizes) the difference that sets Banki, Krieger, Zelemer, and Kun apart. When she takes the bold step to help them, she does so without adding to drama or drawing attention to her work. She's drawing herself away from the others' "games" -- not all at once, no, but this is one time of acting on her own to help others.


message 45: by Darrin (last edited Jun 10, 2020 09:16PM) (new)

Darrin (darrinlettinga) Jan wrote: "Darrin wrote: "I am beginning to think that Abigail is actually two people working together."

What makes you think this?
Reading this, I wondered different times who Abigail was to discover that k..."


Jan, l may be completely wrong, of course, but it just seems like there are a couple of people named in the spoilers above that have an association with one another that may allow them to share information about and with Gina.


message 46: by Sue (new)

Sue | 255 comments I’m enjoying this book and the discussion, letting both sort of wash over me. The developments of this middle third of Abigail certainly developed the story, Gina’s character, the slowly encroaching war, and the characters of many of the teachers as well. I am finding the reading itself comfortable, which is a delight after some of my struggles with concentration over the past few months. No such difficulty here.

I like that Gina’s portrait is a warts and all affair. If she were idealized, the story would be totally unreal. As it is she has her moments of bravery or goodness as well as ones of shabby behavior that occasionally endangers others. While most of us haven’t saved anyone during wartime, I imagine most of us have gossiped or told stories that we weren’t totally certain about. When we were young, of course!

I like the concept of Abigail, no matter who it turns out to be. I envision this person as a member of a resistance network who may not actually know the General since being part of his life in any way could be deadly for Gina. Perhaps Gina is an assignment, a duty for this unknown person. Well, we will learn soon enough.


message 47: by Jan (new)

Jan (janrog) | 271 comments Darrin wrote: "Jan wrote: "Darrin wrote: "I am beginning to think that Abigail is actually two people working together."

What makes you think this?
Reading this, I wondered different times who Abigail was to dis..."


Hello, Darrin,

I agree that Abigail could be two people - or more. I'm glad you offered that.

I'm reading this the second time now; the first read was not long -- I needed the quick pace to really keep the momentum. Come the third section, I'll explain my interpretation of "Abigail."


message 48: by Ken (new)

Ken | 797 comments Mod
Yes, Abigail may be more than one person, but only one is writing the notes, I'll wager. Still, the Bishop Matula may contain a network of resisters.

On the other side of the coin, I suspect the Bishop Matula may also harbor some moles for the bad guys. Darrin pointed out, for instance, that Mraz is Russkie for "scum." And from the get-go, I've had my suspicions about good Saint George (Kalmer). Too good to be true, for one, and Susanna's bullshit meter goes off every time he comes near her, for two.

Mitsi seems too old and removed to have her finger on the pulse of daily goings-on at the school, whereas Konig seems to be in the thick of every little thing. Why else would he test the patience of our hero, Gina, so much?


message 49: by Diane (new)

Diane Barnes It's interesting that all the girls, Gina most of all, consider Konig to be weak and ineffectual, even though all of them are helped in various ways by him. They may be too young to pick up on some of the things he does, but I believe that his appearance is the strongest reason.
Like you, Sue, I find this immensely readable at this point in time. Being able to slide behind the walls of the Matula to escape present current events has been comforting.


message 50: by Darrin (new)

Darrin (darrinlettinga) I have now finished the book so I will keep my thoughts to myself for a bit until the next section's conversation starts. I agree, Diane, the book is very readable and the last couple of days I haven't wanted to put it down.


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