The Obscure Reading Group discussion

This last thread is not just for discussing the last portion of the book (nyrb pp. 235 - p. 333, starting with the beginning of the chapter, "Christmas," going to the end of the book), it is also for discussing the book as a whole.

Let's wrap it all up, look at the big picture, make our pronouncements, and compare notes, in other words!

I finished this last weekend, after commenting on part 2. The ending was very satisfying to me. Since my two candidates for Abigail were Konig or Mitsi, I felt justified. Although Konig was the real Abigail, it appears that Mitsi knew about him all along and helped when she could, so they were co-conspirators. It was never stated as such, but we are led to believe that Konig was also the underground revolutionary leaving the pamphlets and notes on the statues.

I also liked the way that Szabo let us in on the future of not just Gina, but other characters as well. Someone in the previous thread mentioned they'd like a sequel, but I was content knowing that within a year, Gina would return to the school to finish her education there. Since her father was dead, that would seem to have been her own choice, indicating her complete reversal of feeling and her considerable maturity.

Yes, Konig as Abigail seemed a bit telegraphed by the almost over-the-top description of his inadequacies. Clearly Szabo wasn't engaging in all that less-than-flattering description for nothing.

Plus, Konig was practically angelic in his forgiving nature. Where the girls (Gina particularly) saw this as weakness, the readers (well, THIS reader at least) saw it as strength. It was almost Christ-like forbearance he engaged in, so "un-Bishop Matula" it was a wonder he was even allowed to remain in the rule-happy institution.

While we're on the topic of predictions, I'll admit to having a few things wrong -- one badly, one understandable. I interpreted the church bit about this minor cog called Mraz staring at Gina as a foreshadowing of bad things to come. Turns out Mraz was keeping an eye on her for GOOD reasons.

Mea culpa on Kalmar. I had him as the fair-haired Nazi-like beau in hiding. Wrong beau, though. It was Feri Kuncz, another fair-haired boy all the girls were ga-ga for.

Can't trust those good-looking boys who fool the girls, can you.

Speaking of Lt. Kuncz, the whole assignation at the door bit, with Mari Kis and Torma as co-conspirators helping Gina, was a great example of dramatic irony. The reader kept saying, "No, no you little fool!" while Gina kept waxing ecstatic about her dream boy being Daddy's fellow resistance fighter even though, if she stopped to piece together the warnings her dad had given her, she'd know better. Instead, she chose to rationalize matters as she WISHED them to be rather than how they were.

I said from the beginning Lt. seemed slimy. Like everyone I thought Konig was Abigail. Mitzi really lived up to her name as far as a horn of salvation. Someone said Mraz in Russian meant scum. I really laughed at that, but couldn’t say anything. Mraz in the Slavic language means frost.

Getting back to Suzanna and her love for Konig. I was surprised at that then again she was the foil for Konig’s softness. They were like parents that complimented each other, but always working for the good of the girls.

I don’t think the underground revolutionary was entirely one person, it was all the men and women in the underground.

Carol wrote: "I said from the beginning Lt. seemed slimy. Like everyone I thought Konig was Abigail. Mitzi really lived up to her name as far as a horn of salvation. Someone said Mraz in Russian meant scum. I re..."

Good point about Susanna and Konig being a good cop / bad cop pair, though I'm still confused about their Christmas meeting in the hallway (overheard by Gina), wherein Konig said the gift he had was for Mitzi. Clumsy embarrassment leading to a lie, maybe?

I also like your theory about the placard hanger being many minutemen vs. one. The Sons of Liberty in Hungary.

Ken wrote: "This last thread is not just for discussing the last portion of the book (nyrb pp. 235 - p. 333, starting with the beginning of the chapter, "Christmas," going to the end of the book), it is also f..."

I enjoyed reading this.

Just as this whole novel started with Gina's family (and extended world) falling apart, I wondered what would be saved or recreated. What of her new world would mirror her first, beloved home?

When Gina arrived at Matula, I thought Susannah, Mitsi, and Konig would become her extended family figures: Susannah like Marcelle, Mitsi like silly Auntie Mimo, and Konig like her father. To the story's credit, the women were more developed; I came to wonder various times if Susannah was always compassionate when she was preoccupied, and I came to see Mitsi as a quiet and non-threatening revolutionary.

Konig and Kalmar didn't seem to be as contradictory, yet I found it interesting to see how they were cast in two different sides (sides which Konig didn't seem to care about, but certainly sides which Kalmar perpetuated). Even if there was nothing sinister about Kalmar, he didn't seem to mind the propaganda, the underlying messages of "following" and "obedience." No, he may not have been sinister, but he wasn't one to take a moral stand in the manner Konig would (even if it was with a laugh).

I also wondered about Mraz. I liked him, and actually the first time that I read the comment about the fish in the broken aquarium (". . . the poor creatures. . . "), I thought he had been the one to say it. I returned to read it over and again to make certain it was Konig who'd said that. Actually, either person saying it would have made sense for what we come to realize about them.

Who was Abigail? I believe more than one did Abigail's work, and Gina became part of that network of people helping those seeking refuge. However, the original Abigail was Konig. I imagined him helping Mitsi (perhaps similar to Gina in her youth) when she was young. I also imagined him standing by her when her husband and son both died. I then wondered if he had known Mitsi's husband, a soldier. Did he also know Gina's father from WWI? Had they served together?

Oh, the questions continue for me. I'll definitely be searching for the other books and poetry by Magda Szabó. Will I be able to read them soon? Well, I hope so.

Onto my day I now go. . . .
With a smile to everyone, Jan

Carol wrote: "I said from the beginning Lt. seemed slimy. Like everyone I thought Konig was Abigail. Mitzi really lived up to her name as far as a horn of salvation. Someone said Mraz in Russian meant scum. I re..."

Carol, I messed up on that one. I thought perhaps it was a back-handed slap at Hungary's Russian overseers by calling the character of Mraz by that name. In Russian, however, frost is морозь, while мраз, according to google translate gave me scum. It was probably not a good idea to rely on google translate for a word I only vaguely remembered from 30 years ago.

I really do not think of this book as a YA. It is more a political statement to me. Although at the time of Szabo’s writing this, the Soviet bloc was becoming weaker.

History tells us about the Hungarian uprising in 1956 that exposed the communist eastern blocs weak points. Szabo was like all writers living under repression , she was expressing her dissatisfaction in the subtlety of language.

Yes, Carol,

I can definitely see those points come into play here. Written about the same time, a book I dearly love - - _Bless Me, Ultima_ -- has a young boy as a central figure, but he is a reflection of our dilemmas and decisions. Though it has often been cast as Young Adult, it was set in WWII and had themes and decisions that Americans were grappling with during the War in Vietnam. I'm always grateful when my students read it (now in the 21st Century) and draw parallels with their lives as women and men.

I think Gina is not so different from the rest of us. What decisions would we make? Whom would we notice, and whom would we overlook? What do we do with our wits and resources? I marked this as YA in my lists, yet I may return to that later. * * * * About two hours later, I double-checked. I had not marked this as a YA novel. I'm glad of that, and I began to check/double-check myself later.

I knew Feri I would be brought back into the picture at some point, there was too much speculation by the girls, and adoration on Gina's part. Like Chekov's gun in the scene in Act I, he had to be a part of the climax.

I read this third section last night and liked how various plot lines wrapped up. Gideon Torma was allowed to be heroic in Gina’s (and others’) eyes for protecting her when it was most important. At the same time, the inevitability of the German’s future return to the school and success was acknowledged as we learn the truth about Abigail finally. I too had decided that Konig was the person behind the deeds and wondered about possible assistants. As Mraz’s position became clear, I began to wonder if he was involved in the church hymn episode more than as a fixer.

Watching Gina’s reactions and development over the last portion of the story was interesting. She was still her impetuous self, bringing all her favorite items to Torma ill in the infirmary without thinking of the possibility or repercussions of being caught. Once again thinking only of herself leaving, though, to be sure, also of doing something nice for a friend. Then we have the Gina who can silently watch the amazing scene with Mitzi and Susanna play out in front of her followed by the entry of Konig. For once she doesn’t make an event about her or something to be affected by her. She simply observes, and learns so much about the truth of people who have been around her for months.

I’m glad the information about her future was given too, that she chooses to return to Matula in some ways doesn’t surprise me; they are her family. I don’t recall any mention of the future of Konig and Susanna. Several others were mentioned and perhaps I missed it. Just curious, as Gina would be.

Carol wrote: "I said from the beginning Lt. seemed slimy. Like everyone I thought Konig was Abigail. Mitzi really lived up to her name as far as a horn of salvation. Someone said Mraz in Russian meant scum. I re..."

Carol was spot on in her suspicion that Feri, the Lt. was slimy. There has to be a reason why the General and Marcelle did not like or trust him. If Gina had paid closer attention, she might have sensed his sliminess. But she is 14 and flattered by the overtures of a handsome young soldier. Understandable. Like Diane, I expected that Feri will show up later in the story.

I agree with Carol that the underground revolutionary and placard hangers are more than one man perhaps with Konig as leader. I am also not surprised that Konig turned out to be Abigail. He was there to comfort and protect her right from the start whenever Gina got into trouble. His bumbling and unattractive exterior provided a sort of camouflage for the role of deliverer in the lives of the Matula girls. This is a story that makes a clear statement about not being taken in by appearances.

I also think that Szabo did a wonderful job helping us see the impact of WW2 from the perspective of the young people. At age 14, giddy with all the girlish dreams of having a boyfriend and getting married, the war may still seem kind of remote until it touches them personally (as in the case of Gina and the four Jewish girls). I don't think anyone growing up in those times can ever look back in their adult years and forget how the war completely changed their lives. Great book!

Laysee said: "I don't think anyone growing up in those times can ever look back in their adult years and forget how the war completely changed their lives.

Which is why they are known as the "Great Generation," I guess, the last generation where good and evil had clearly delineated lines and where conventional war could be fought with conventional armies. Those days are gone.

For me, the most complex character in the book is Susanna, a woman who might be called "the Velvet Fist" for her two roles as disciplinarian and sympathizer. No one kept an eye on Gina like she did, and although Kalmar considered Gina a favorite, it was strictly for selfish reasons -- namely, that Gina sided with him over Konig in the Susanna's Heart Sweepstakes and didn't hide the fact.

The aquarium episode still befuddles me a bit. What did I miss there. Who did it and why? I mean, I loved the symbolism of Gina's "bethrothed" being attacked, but beyond that I can't see much benefit to anyone's destruction of tropical fish.

I'd like to thank whoever nominated this book, and the person(s) who put it over the top with their vote(s). I thoroughly enjoyed it, and the discussions. I was already a fan of Szabo, but I think she picked up a few admirers here.

Ken, wasn't the aquarium incident a cover-up for whoever stole the documents of the girls? Either Konig or Mraz needed access, privacy, and time to go through the files, and the cleanup afforded them the opportunity.

Hmn. Maybe. Though I wonder WHO the cover-up is for, given there turned out to be no moles inside the school and it would all be picked up again anyway, thus worthless should any outsider come in and demand access to files.

Diane wrote: "I'd like to thank whoever nominated this book, and the person(s) who put it over the top with their vote(s). I thoroughly enjoyed it, and the discussions. I was already a fan of Szabo, but I think ..."

I would like to echo that Diane. I liked the setting and the story of this book and, yes, I definitely want to read more by Magda Szabo. I am now looking forward to our next book, whatever that may be.

I think the files were taken because people were close to finding Gina and whoever else they could catch in their net. I have been thinking about the aquarium incident , I think that it was skillful of Szabo to make that one of the turning points of the novel to ramp it up to more than a coming of age.

Hi,
I also enjoyed how all the threads came together, although the very end was so sudden it left me wondering if a page was ripped out my book. It was a clever touch to make the seeming resistance the unexpected “villain”, and the real resistance was the man who preached against it, so was that a front?

Also, I’m not sure if Konig had feelings for Susanna or was not interested? That point was left ambivalent to me.

Also, I felt like there was a reason for Torma’s relationship that I missed. Was she Jewish? I’ve been very busy, but it’s another reason I would like to read Katalin Street and get a more mature perspective from the author.

Thanks to everyone for their kindness and insights. This is a book that doesn’t deserve obscurity!

Jeremy, I think Konig had feelings for Mitzi.

Jeremy wrote: "Hi,
I also enjoyed how all the threads came together, although the very end was so sudden it left me wondering if a page was ripped out my book. It was a clever touch to make the seeming resistance..."

Jeremy, I had the same thought at first regarding the ending but then after I pondered it for a bit I ended up thinking it was very clever. Szabo had been giving us little tidbits of future Gina along the way so we know she survives her ordeal and, we can even speculate that she is happily married with children. In hindsight all of the hints of her future life along the way ended up, for me, making a very satisfying ending.

Gina ended up I think I recall this, as having a lifetime relationship with Konig. Almost as if he became her father figure. At least that was the impression I got.

I think Konig had feelings of some sort for Mitzi, but they seemed to be mixed up so much in the Abigail work that it became difficult to separate out. And likewise for his feelings for Susanna. Was Mitzi right about Konig and Susanna or was she redirecting him to someone more suitable. It seemed to me that she was dedicated to her role of widow and mother to her dead son. Perhaps that scene bears rereading especially since I don’t think Szabo gave an update on either Konig or Susanna (though I could be wrong).

I just read your update, Carol. Thanks. I should read that section again.

I finally was able to finish the book tonight, staying up way past my normal bedtime. Overall I liked it. I guess, as I’ve said before, I liked the poetic rhythm of the writing; that was my favorite thing about this book...and it was a translation. I also enjoyed the child’s point of view during wartime. Sometimes the storyline felt like the game of Clue and we were held to the plot by guessing who Abigail was. But we all figured out it was Konig due to—as Ken pointed out—an abundance of “clues.” I don’t like mysteries that are so obvious and predictable. I will probably have more to say tomorrow after a little much needed sleep!

Szabo's insertion about the futures of some characters reminded me of authors who, at the very end of the book (this is also done in some movies), give you "this is what happened to this character" blips.

I've never been a fan, because it comes across as an asterisk, a mere mention, an almost belittling of a character. All of this is my way of saying that I'd rather not KNOW that Kalmar was eventually killed in the war, at least if it amounts to a mere throw-in sentence.

This may be a product of my aversion to neatly-tied up endings. They always strike me as a bit Hollywood and and fake and unlike life, which is messy and often leaves us saying things like, "I wonder what ever happened to...?"

Ken regarding your earlier comment about Lt. Kuncz, if the General hadn't tried to protect Gina from everything and told her why he did not care for Lt. Kuncz, Gina would have been better prepared to deal with the situation. By "protecting" her from the truth, he put her in danger.

Angela wrote: "I agree on the Hollywood-style add-ons, Ken. Every now and then it works, but more often it just falls flat. I would so much rather be left—as we often are in « real » life—with a question, an unti..."

As Dickinson would say: "Then there's a pair of Us!" ;-)



Cindy wrote: "Ken regarding your earlier comment about Lt. Kuncz, if the General hadn't tried to protect Gina from everything and told her why he did not care for Lt. Kuncz, Gina would have been better prepared ..."

You have a point there. Not only was she kept in the dark, she was fighting her own urges to have it the way she hoped it would be. Hormones and logic make a bad pair, in that sense.

Carol wrote: "Jeremy, I think Konig had feelings for Mitzi."
Sue wrote: I think Konig had feelings of some sort for Mitzi, but they seemed to be mixed up so much in the Abigail work that it became difficult to separate out. And likewise for his feelings for Susanna. Was Mitzi right about Konig and Susanna or was she redirecting him to someone more suitable.

I think Konig was in love with Susanna, but it was certainly confusing since he kept telling her that he would never be with her and to leave him alone. He was a little too abrupt and harsh to be playing hard to get!

Mitsi tells Susanna as she's turning to leave that there's nothing going on between herself and Konig, and that he has been in love with Susanna for years. Once the soldiers burst in and Susanna tells her first lies, everything has changed. Mitsi tells Susanna, "He won't have any more dark secrets to tell you when you are married." Then Konig reveals the reason he has so adamantly rejected Susanna when he tells her, "Sister Susanna was not let into the secret because Abigail loved her far too much and had done so for far too long. She was afraid to put her in the same danger, and afraid too of her own feelings." Konig was pushing her away for the same reason Gina's father had distanced himself from her--for her own protection. Konig knew how much danger he was courting with his double life--he could be found out at any time. He didn't want to drag Susanna into that, nor to have her used against him as Gina's father's enemies were trying to use Gina. But now that Susanna has found his secret out and has thrown in her lot with him by lying to the soldiers, there is no reason for them to be apart.

I enjoyed the story and was very engaged in the storyline. I still feel like it is more YA in the tone, but YA today tackles a wide variety of weighty topics, so a YA classification does not detract from the seriousness of the storyline.

Ken wrote: "Szabo's insertion about the futures of some characters reminded me of authors who, at the very end of the book (this is also done in some movies), give you "this is what happened to this character"..."

I didn't really mind the updates on what happened to some of the characters later in life, but I wish she had waited until the end to share those with us. I know some people like to know the end because it allays anxiety, but I'm not one of them. When we're in the middle of a suspenseful arc of action and the author, in the middle of the scene, suddenly drops in the information that Gina later gets married and has children of her own, it was like a dash of cold water in the face of my suspense. I still wanted to know what happened, but the sense of urgency was gone. She did the same thing by suddenly adding in the information that Gina and Konig are friends later in life. Any possibility of Konig actually turning out to be something other than what I suspected died right then.

Yes, Cindy! I agree with everything you said. A mystery that isn’t a mystery...

Thanks, Cindy, for that clear-eyed wrap-up of the Konig-Susanna relationship (with a dash of Mitsi thrown in). Mitsi came across as an Auntie Mame-type character, though I admit it's been so long since I've seen the movie by that name that even I cannot fully recall the Auntie act.

I find myself guilty sometimes of rushing the reading toward the end of plot books. Like a kid flunking the marshmallow test, I can't wait, so I speed read for "what-happens-next" gratification.

This explains the fog surrounding the Mitsi-Konig-Susanna triangle.

I also endorse your "cold water" comparison about Szabo dropping in what-happens-in-the-future tidbits. Again, though, it might have been more the fashion in the years this book was written. That counts for something.

I don't think this book was meant to be a mystery. The question of Abigail's identity was important to the story, but I thought the main thrust was the maturation of Gina in her strange new circumstances. I did like the hints of Gina's future dropped into the narrative because not having to worry about her life left me free to concentrate on other aspects of the novel.

I agree, Diane. Less mystery and YA and more coming-of-age. Or bildungsroman (gesundheit!) as they say in Deutschland, Main Deutschland.

I agree that this book would be considered more of a coming-of-age story than a mystery. It is a good story about a young girl during a horrendous time in history. I learned a bit about Hungary’s role in WW2. I enjoyed the unique setting of the school as well. The identity of Abigail added suspense, and for a time we were guessing who it could be. However, that particular plot device, whatever Szabó’s intentions, became tiresome. Maybe the author decided at some point that it wasn’t important to keep Abigail a secret to the reader, but to keep it from Gina. Although there are many things I liked while reading the book, other elements(which others have pointed out) kept me from a five star rating. The best part was reading all your insights and perceptions!

I've read a few of your reviews but would be interested in reading all of them. It would be cool (though not mandatory) if people linked their reviews here.

Here's mine.

Dear fellow Obscurists,

Here's mine: Laysee's review

Cindy, thanks for clarifying the Konig/Susanna/Mitzi situation so well. I think I may have read that section too quickly and missed the nuances. And Diane, I agree with this being primarily a coming of age story with mysteries of wartime and school life included.

Well, friends, we've reached the last day of the last week's discussion period and appear to be about done with our thoughts (though you are of course still free to pipe in) on Abigail.

With that, I thank you all for reading (or lurking) and look forward to our next discussion starting Oct. 1st. That means, along about the end of August, I'll send an all-message out for nominations on our next obscure but compelling book, then we'll have a vote, pick a winner, and roll up our sleeves again. Can't wait!

Meantime, enjoy your independent reads and remember, we always have an "Open Discussion" thread here if you feel like book chatting a bit or even making "independent" recommendations for various group members to read on their own in the "in-between" times!

Kind regards,
Ken, Sandra, John

P.S. One great use of the "Open Discussion" thread would be reporting back on your other Magda Szabó discoveries. Seems her other books have landed on a lot of our reading lists.

Thank you!
Again, you all have provided lively discussion, meaningful challenges for me, and engaged reading.
Though I realize there is no sequel to Abigail, I'll be pursuing Szabó's other works. For a while, I have a bit more to read first.

I see I might have closed this thread too soon, as some readers here are still getting to their reviews of the book. For instance, I came across Candi's review just yesterday.

If you find other reviews by readers from the group, feel free to link them here, as the readers may not know we offered the chance to share links as a send-off to dear Abigail (the statue, the book, what-have-you).