The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

I created this to stop discussions of Utopia Avenue cluttering the Booker speculation thread:

David Mitchell (1969- )
English novelist

Bibliography:

Novels:
Ghostwritten (1999)

number9dream (2001)

Cloud Atlas (2004)

Black Swan Green (2006)

The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet (2010)

The Bone Clocks (2014)

Slade House (2015)

Utopia Avenue (2020)

Pablo Honey Ghostwritten is my favourite of his novels although The Bends number9dream was perhaps more accomplished

However with retrospect the warning signs were there for me with OK Computer Cloud Atlas, which even at the time I felt failed to achieve its ambitions, and it has been downhill ever since with my experience of his books which seem to be increasingly self-indulgent.

I agree to an extent but for me the graph has ups and downs. I have read all of the novels except the last third of Utopia Avenue and my opinions on them are largely dependent on the degree to which the fantasy elements dominate the story, and I would order them:

Ghostwritten
Cloud Atlas
Black Swan Green
The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet
Utopia Avenue
The Bone Clocks (without part 5 this would have been higher)
number9dream
Slade House

I think I would largely agree with that ranking.

The thing about Utopia Avenue is that it draws on just about all of those other books. I didn’t notice BSG, but I imagine that is my mistake rather than it not being there.

I think this is something that has been developing through the whole of Mitchell’s work. Bone Clocks made it more visible, Slade House linked to Bone Clocks and now Utopia Avenue uses Cloud Atlas, Thousand Autumns, number9dream, Ghostwritten, Bone Clocks and Slade House.

It seems to me that there have never been the two types of Mitchell novel that reviews often refer to. All of them are horology novels, I think, and Utopia Avenue makes that clearer than it maybe was.

I didn’t like Utopia Avenue because it felt to me that if you take out the cross-references and the musical cameos, then there is very little left. But maybe I am misjudging it.

Well here's my rankings

The Bone Clocks
Cloud Atlas
Slade House
Ghostwritten
Black Swan Green
Number9dream
The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet

Utopia Avenue dispatched on the 6th July

Order wise:

Number 9 dream
Ghostwritten
The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet (an up)
Cloud Atlas (I was an outlier on this even at the time)
Black Swan Green
Bone Clocks (one where my patience snapped)

Haven't read the two since Bone Clocks.

Neil wrote: "It seems to me that there have never been the two types of Mitchell novel that reviews often refer to. All of them are horology novels, I think, and Utopia Avenue makes that clearer than it maybe was."

At the time I read it Black Swan Green seemed an odd departure - a relatively run of the mill, conventional coming-of-age novel.

I haven't stepped back and looked at it to see how it fits in more generally. Was there more to it when reviewed in the context of his wider works? As I've typically seen the novels as two types - this one and all the other ones.

(and what generally are the division of the two types of novel as seen by critics otherwise?)

I am well aware that Mitchell sees them all as part of the same ubernovel, and the cross references have been there from the start. My feeling is more that the writing is better when the subject matter is closer to reality. I am enjoying the musical side of Utopia Avenue which for me rings truer than Rushdie's The Ground Beneath her Feet.

Black Swan Green did seem like a more conventional rites of passage novel - the obvious links to other books are through minor characters (the ones I remember were Hugo Lamb from Bone Clocks and Madame van Crommelynk from Cloud Atlas

I don't know whether it's the time between books or just that I'm super easy to please in his genre -- I like the horror/fantasy/weirdness -- but I always like his books when I read them, even when I know they aren't as good as his others. I'm easy, I suppose.

I think I am much the same Ella. This was my review of Bone Clocks for instance

“In many ways a typical Mitchell novel with multi-narrators each with a distinct narrative style, interlinked novellas, settings spread over time and across the globe, a keen eye for detail, dialogue and description, a mix of description of fairly banal modern-day situations interleaved with genre-fiction.

Perhaps even more so an evolution/progression from his previous novels, quite deliberately drawing characters from a range of his previous novels and extending themes that were more implicit there.

A very enjoyable book – much of the description of the Horology/Anchorite psych-battles is not just impossible to follow but mixed up with sub-Da Vinci code description of Cathars, but this is easily overlooked in the sheer exuberance and imagination of the novel.”

One nice thing about his latest is you can review it without reading it.

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

There are some lovely character charts out there to help try and trace some of the appearances across novels, although I haven't seen ones beyond The Bone Clocks yet. This is one of the cleanest ones (from a Vulture article):

I think I am right in saying there is a character missing from that chart who is in Thousand Autumns a lot and then briefly in Bone Clocks and Slade House and then makes a dramatic reappearance in Utopia Avenue.

Marc wrote: "There are some lovely character charts out there to help try and trace some of the appearances across novels, although I haven't seen ones beyond The Bone Clocks yet. This is one of the cleanest on..."

Very nice, Marc! Thanks for that. I recently bought myself the "british version" of Bone Clocks (well, in the last year or two) and I keep meaning to read that one to see if it hits me differently. I doubt it will, but the charts will be helpful whenever I get round to doing it.

Hugh wrote: "I am well aware that Mitchell sees them all as part of the same ubernovel, and the cross references have been there from the start. My feeling is more that the writing is better when the subject ma..."

After more people read Utopia Avenue, I would be interested in hearing opinions on the musical aspect from both readers who lived through the novel's period like myself and those who did not experience that time. I was drawn to the novel for the musical nostalgia and am only early into it. I think it is nice to read the familiar names as they are dropped but * am wondering where Mitchell is going with it. Any fan of Fairport must perk up at the mention of Sandy Denny, and fond memories and moist eyes follow, but where Mitchell is taking this is troubling me. Are we going to exoerience her untimely death ot was it just a familiar name to give the novel verisimilitude? I'm too early to form an opinion, but Mitchell wasn't born at the time of the novel I am noe reading, and what he gets right is admirable. I already want a tv series or film. (I hope there are more Fairport fans in the group.)

1. Cloud Atlas
2. Ghost Written
3. Number9Dream
4. Bone Clocks
5. Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet
6. Slade House
7. Utopia Avenue
Black Swan Green - DNF - it's conventionality made me lose interest.

Clearly, it's the trippy element that grabs me. For me the downfall of Utopia Avenue was the music writing, which I always find unbearable. In UA, Mitchell has Frank Zappa say "Like Charles Mingus says, writing about music is like dancing about architecture."

Sam, I am a Fairport fan but too young to remember their heyday - I started investigating in the 80s. I think there is a lot of Sandy in Elf but also a lot of Christine McVie. The Joe Boyd book would be worth reading.

Neil wrote: "I think I am right in saying there is a character missing from that chart who is in Thousand Autumns a lot and then briefly in Bone Clocks and Slade House and then makes a dramatic reappearance in ..."

Neil, unfortunately, I was not in a position to choose the best one since I still haven't read Ghost Written and Utopia Ave (not to mention how crappy my memory is). There are lots of others to choose from out there.

Ella, hope this one or another helps when you get around to the reading.

Looks like my rankings are probably in the minority here. Also, the interconnected characters fees more like a parlor trick than anything that has added to my own personal reading experience (I'll admit, this could be because my readings have had too much time and space amidst his various novels).

1. Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet
2. Cloud Atlas
3. Black Swan Green
4. Number9Dream
5. Slade House
6. Bone Clocks

I'm not allowed to purchase Utopia Avenue until I read the copy of Ghostwritten I already own. I have to set up these arbitrary rules lest I buy even more unread books.

Marc, I wasn’t criticising or expecting you to do better! It was more of a teaser about Utopia Avenue whilst trying not to post anything spoilerish. Utopia Avenue makes you wonder if the missing character I refer to is perhaps one of the central characters in Mitchell’s universe!

Neil wrote: "Marc, I wasn’t criticising or expecting you to do better! It was more of a teaser about Utopia Avenue whilst trying not to post anything spoilerish. Utopia Avenue makes you wonder if the kissing ch..."

No criticism taken, but I think it would be great if someone who has read everything could point to a more comprehensive one. You all have me excited to read Utopia Avenue. Honestly, I have to limit how much I drop in on this group because I end up adding so much to my TBR list and I'm getting close to needing a 2nd or 3rd reincarnation at this point!

You need to become a character in Mitchell’s universe. Some of them live for an awfully long time (e.g. Marinus in Thousand Autumns and Bone Clocks).

Checking back on Mitchell's previous books, I think the Mongolia chapter of Ghostwritten is important context for Utopia Avenue. Of course, that was his first novel, so none of us knew to watch for potential upcoming connections at that point!

Neil wrote: "You need to become a character in Mitchell’s universe. Some of them live for an awfully long time (e.g. Marinus in Thousand Autumns and Bone Clocks)."

Sign me up! I could sacrifice a few souls for the benefit of my reading longevity.

Marc wrote: "Sign me up! I could sacrifice a few souls for the benefit of my reading longevity."

This made me laugh aloud. Thanks - I needed that.

I'm guilty of a horrible memory too, especially over such a long time and even more when the characters move in and out of various books. I feel like I know them, but I'm never sure where I met them... I didn't start reading Mitchell until he'd written a few books, but I will say, he is definitely my cuppa tea.

Trevor or Hugh (depending on which author index we are using) please can you add the link to this thread in the Author Index post.

Well I've never got to Mitchell's books and have been meaning to, especially Cloud Atlas. With the release of Utopia Ave perhaps I should get to them soonish.

I don’t remember details and names in books I read more than a few days ago, but I remember liking Timothy Cavendish (if he’s the retirement home escapee) in Cloud Atlas, so I’m glad to see he’s Ghostwritten since that’s the next Mitchell I want to read. I have The Bone Clocks, but haven’t read it yet,

Ella wrote: "I didn't start reading Mitchell until he'd written a few books, but I will say, he is definitely my cuppa tea."

Same here!

I see David Mitchell helped co-write the recent Matrix Resurrections script. This was a surprise to me, although it shouldn’t have been as he collaborated with the director on the film adaptation of Cloud Atlas.

I haven’t seen Matrix. I think I should and I should read more David Mitchell. I really liked Cloud Atlas and The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet.

I plan to this year revisit Ghostwritten and the Bone Clocks :-)
Still need to see the movie, our cinema's are in lockdown now so it will probably be streaming...

Is Cloud Atlas the movie any good. I know is has Bae Doona in it, which is a positive. Just popped up on Amazon Prime as a recommendation to watch (I think because we were watching The Matrix)

I still have an unread copy of Ghostwritten I plan to read this year. We watched Resurrections streaming via HBOmax (I think we have a free trial or something).

I believe Utopia Ave is the only other novel of his I have yet to read. I'm reluctant because Bone Clocks put a major speed bump in my Mitchell enthusiasm.

Wendy, I enjoyed the first Matrix movie and this most recent one (for the most part).

Paul wrote: "Is Cloud Atlas the movie any good. I know is has Bae Doona in it, which is a positive. Just popped up on Amazon Prime as a recommendation to watch (I think because we were watching The Matrix)"

It's okay, I liked it more than the book but a bit mawkish/mainstream and not, I think, well reviewed, so depends on your preferences. But Bae Doona is great as always, think I'll have to watch 'The Silent Sea' soon just for her. Did you see 'Stranger' Paul? She's very good in that, but the first 10 or 15 minutes of the series are terrible, improves after that.

I haven’t seen the Cloud Atlas movie and I had to google Bae Doona so I can’t help you, Paul.

The impression I have of David Mitchell is that his novels are hit and miss. The two I mentioned and his haunted house story, Slade House, are the only ones I’ve read.

Cloud Atlas is one of my all-time favorite books, so it was inevitable that I would watch the movie, and likely be disappointed by it. Which I was. Not remotely as good as the books, although now I have the urge to see it again ;)

I've never managed to make it through any of his books, so the fact that I finished the film was a bonus!

I actually rather liked the film version even though it has a very different structure to the book. Some bits of it were not so good but overall I liked it.

I don’t remember all of Cloud Atlas the book, but I remember thinking the chapter with the old man escaping from a nursing home was funny.

That was probably my least favourite part of the film - done for the laughs (ok - it is supposed to be funny) but over the top and the make up used was awful (the same actors play multiple characters across the different story threads).

I never had any interest in the movie.

Neil wrote: "I actually rather liked the film version even though it has a very different structure to the book. Some bits of it were not so good but overall I liked it."

I also quite liked the movie, also the soundtrack is well done in my opinion.

Paul wrote: "Is Cloud Atlas the movie any good. I know is has Bae Doona in it, which is a positive. Just popped up on Amazon Prime as a recommendation to watch (I think because we were watching The Matrix)"

Sort of - considering the book's structure, I think all three directors did a good job HOWEVER - I cannot stand the oversaturated look - it hurts my eyes

Now I have to find it to see what you’re talking about, Robert!