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House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski, Buddy Read Thread
Reading Schedule for
House of LeavesJanuary/February
21st-11th Chapters I-IV
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We have all patiently waited to read/re-read House of Leaves, by Mark Z. Danielewski, for a while...The time is finally upon us, so let us assume our positions, mirrors in hand, and begin to delineate!
A quick reminder that posting for chapters 1-4 begins tomorrow. Please make sure you put headers in bold print at the start of each posting stating which section you're talking about. This way none of us get traumatized by spoilers.Let the fun begin!
Guys, there's a 12 page introduction so this is a bit longer than it looks.Introduction
Two things have caught my attention so far. I love the way that the word "house" is always in blue. It's especially cool when it's part of a word. The other thing is that on the inside of the cover, the left side has a green circle around something that looks like a pause button. On the back page the circle is gold but it still looks like a pause button.
This is very atmospheric straight off and promises to be nice and creepy.
I'm rereading right now, will be back in a few hours!
Sarah wrote: "Guys, there's a 12 page introduction so this is a bit longer than it looks.Introduction
Two things have caught my attention so far. I love the way that the word "house" is always in blue. It's..."
Introduction and First Impressions
I've been meaning to do this, here goes...
I found this introduction to be dense, bearing great weight on word choice and tone, intermingled with an indecisive narrative. I'm not kidding, I had to read it twice because I read it too fast the first time around, but as most of you who have read with me know, I'm a rather detailed reader, in general.
Sarah, to your point about the transition from black to blue only for the word house so far, it's so subtle... I don't know if it was the lighting I was reading under, but I didn't notice it immediately, in spite of knowing the changing font color(s) were going to be present?
I can tell MZD has a real flare for descriptive writing, almost to the point where I find him animalistic in his approach; in the sense,...His words are carefully chosen, placed with precision, creating the beginnings of a narrative that is very raw, layered and deep-rooted-He's giving the introduction alone so much life, you can literally feel its breath heaving. One example of this, on page XV, when describing the smell upon entering Zampano's apartment ...it had overwhelmed me, so much of it, cloying, bitter, rotten, 'even mean'-A smell being mean...I loved it. Or how about the paragraph on page XVIII describing what is a book, but essentially giving it animal-like qualities that puts poor Cujo to shame? I hope all of this continues well throughout the narrative.
Some little pieces I picked up while reading only the introduction, yes, theres a lot of information here...Did you notice some of the names of the characters (Lude...is rather lewd, and Johnny Truant...neither, here, nor there?), in some shape, are reflective of their personalities?
First Impessions
I'm enjoying the excitement and intrigue created so far, but I'm also a little taken aback by the strong similarities in technique and content to Infinite Jest. I am aware "House of Leaves" has been dubbed Infinite Jest Jr., but I thought it was only in regards to the plethora of footnotes. I'm wondering if this introduction is similar to the "Year of Glad" in the beginning of "IJ" (for those of you who have read it, you know what I mean), but here are a couple of other commonalities I noticed...The bonds to inanimate objects leading to alienation from society (the effect of the Navidson Record on Zampano and Truant, and effects of drugs on those in IJ), Navidson Record and The Entertainment (same effects on those it consumes), fictitious footnotes, and "it doesn't matter what's real, or isn't-the irony is it makes no difference that the documentary at the heart of this book is fiction (reminded me of what Pat Montesian said to Gately about belief...) (XX). Having literally just finished "Infinite Jest," and I really liked it, I wanted "House of Leaves" to be more of a literary palette cleanser for me after such a heavy read. Maybe this is a good thing, I've been seasoned by "Infinite Jest" and know better as to how to navigate through the Navidson Records...I guess we'll see? :)
Now, if only Linda will get here so I can ask her about the significance of the color blue in this new scenario!!! (I hope she laughs at this). :P
Introduction and First ImpressionsAmi wrote: "Now, if only Linda will get here so I can ask her about the significance of the color blue in this new scenario!!! (I hope she laughs at this). :P"
Ha! I just finished IJ today, and just read the introduction to HoL, so it looks like we are all on schedule here. And I did laugh at this, Ami. :)
As far as the color blue, I had not noticed this. Is this in the introduction (I don't see the word "house" in the intro, unless I'm missing it), or just later in the main text? I noticed on the front flap that "house" looked grey instead of white, but now on closer inspection I do see that it is actually blue. But...the question is, why blue? Why not another color? What is the significance of blue?
Sarah, I also noticed the green pause button, but had to look at the back after reading your post to see the gold pause button. Love all these little details!
One thing I noticed before diving into the introduction was on the title page at the bottom, it has "A Note On This Edition" and then lists the "Full Color", "2-Color", etc. Well on the three editions except for the full color edition, it says "No Braille". So I immediately was curious if there was actually braille in the full color edition. Flipping through quickly, I didn't find any right away, but there was something extra adhered to one of the pages that added some tactile variation that I'm not used to while "reading". So then onto reading the introduction, I got excited to find out that Zampano WAS blind and that half his books were in braille. So of course I'm curious if we will indeed come upon some braille in our book, even if it's just a word or two.
My first impression while reading the introduction was that it reminded me sort of a Blair Witch Project sort of narrative where we are being told to beware if you dare to explore, read, investigate what is a very real danger. And it is being told to us by just a "regular guy". I like how the intro is told in a very real voice.
Regarding the smell of Zampano's apartment. I loved the description - the scent of human history - a composite of sweat, urine,....as well as joy, sorrow, jealousy..... The description gave me the impression that you could feel the smell on your skin, like you were walking into a dense, heavy atmosphere.
Ami wrote: I was aware "House of Leaves" has been dubbed Infinite Jest Jr., but I thought it was only in regards to the plethora of footnotes.... but here are a couple of other commonalities I noticed....
Wow! I'm impressed by all of the similarities you picked up on, Ami. That is really great! I also noticed the line it doesn't matter what's real, or isn't - the irony is it makes no difference - yes, the similarity between this and Pat M's take on belief is definitely there.
The name Lude - yeah, that's the first time I've heard that one.
First Impressions (Pre-Introduction)This is just the kind of book where I become a microreader (as with I.J.). I finished the Intro and Chapter 1 a couple of weeks ago and went back tonight.
And got stopped at the inner cover. I mean, I always thought it was kind of cool, that collage page, but I never studied it before. Has anyone else? The measuring tapes, compass (just by reading the flap we all know the house (wish I could make this blue :))is bigger on the inside than the outside, so the tapes and compass are eerie foretellings of maybe what a family would use to try to process something that must seem so unbelievable to their eyes.
Then, I noticed part of a typewritten page. It looks like a draft of a story - changing a story - something about killing the children. Gruesome stuff. Definition of the word "ghost" (including middle English and old English spellings. A MZ # (megahertz?)2147. Then postage stamps with Poe's picture. Airplane symbols, floorplans, strangely elongated stairs, blood splatters, a bullet casing, a maze under some dried leaves.
The pills stuck me because on the first page of the Intro, Johnny Truant talks about not being able to sleep anymore and he names all the pills he's tried, including Exedrin PMs (there is a pill with "PM" on it).
I used to pick up college money (back in the 1970's) working as a typist, so typefaces are something I notice. They stand out to me. I recognied the Courier type on the gruesome note. And I noticed that the Introduction has the same typeface. But not Chaper 1. So, if the Courier typewriter is Johnny's, then is all this weird stuff his? It would make sense if the pills are his. And then, if this stuff is his, why is he talking about altering a story (?). If he's putting together the writings of Zampano, why is he talking about altering the writings and in such a horrible way?
Ami, I was interested in your comments about being seasoned by Infinite Jest and the effect it has had on your reading HoL. I read HoL back in 2000 (I didn't read I.J. until last year and I've read it twice since then), but I don't remember being all that aware of these tiny little details and I don't think I spent much time at all reading the footnotes. Maybe that's why most of what I remember about HoL (beside the fact that it was 15 years ago) is that it was weird and cool and not like anything else I'd read before.
Plus, I've done a lot of collage art myself in the past 13 years and now, when I look at collage, I have a much better appreciation and awareness. In collage art, nothing is there just because it's pretty or strange; the whole point is that there is a reason for each image...what it is, why it's there, where its placed.
Ok, now that I've gotten all of this off my mind, I can move on to the text. Oh boy, at this pace, I'm going to be bringing up the rear in this read!
The first page of the intro has nuthouse with only house in blue. Page xviii has House of Blues. I'm having trouble finding them because you need the right lighting. Found it! Crackhouse on page xiii. I'm intrigued by the upcoming braille. I wonder if I would have noticed it if I were just reading it.
I'm going to reread the intro because the part about smells caught my attention too. The idea of emotions having a scent was intriguing and somehow very descriptive. Did you guys feel like you knew what those smelled like?
First ImpressionsOh, I also noticed there is an index. I'm sure that will come in handy. It sure would have come in handy while reading IJ (especially while I was trying to find all instances of Marathe's sniffing!)
Speaking of the index, there are some ODD entries! Examples of words in the index, some of which have many pages listed for them: "so", "something", "time", "three", "while", "with", "out", "over", "only", "just", "for". Aren't those odd entries?? They just make me even more curious!
A strange one - In Doctor Who the color blue is very significant because it's the color of the TARDIS, and the TARDIS is... bigger on the inside. That's how it's always described. I'll be curious to see if more things like this come up :)
That is odd Linda. A lot of oddities when we're just in the intro and first impressions stage.
Linda wrote: "Introduction and First ImpressionsAmi wrote: "Now, if only Linda will get here so I can ask her about the significance of the color blue in this new scenario!!! (I hope she laughs at this). :P"
..."
As far as the color blue, I had not noticed this. Is this in the introduction (I don't see the word "house" in the intro, unless I'm missing it), or just later in the main text?
It's really subtle.. There are two instances, so far in the Intro.
Well on the three editions except for the full color edition, it says "No Braille". So I immediately was curious if there was actually braille in the full color edition.
Hmm, not to sound gauche, but would it matter if it were in "color..." I don't know how the use of colored text would be emphasized in braille, it's interesting, however...I do hope we encounter it while reading! Yes, Zamapano was blind, yet he described what he saw so vividly...I liked how this aspect was referenced as the "biggest joke!"
Wow! I'm impressed by all of the similarities you picked up on, Ami.
Linda, I'm still carrying IJ's weight, unfortunately. Might take a while to rid myself of it and allow the nuances in HoL to stand on their own, which is what I would have wanted it to do any ways.
I think the full color edition just has all the bells and whistles.
Intro and First ImpressionsSarah wrote: "A strange one - In Doctor Who the color blue is very significant because it's the color of the TARDIS, and the TARDIS is... bigger on the inside. That's how it's always described. I'll be curious ..."
I smiled while reading this reply. Brilliant work, Sarah. Totally cool! :)
Paula wrote: "First Impressions (Pre-Introduction)This is just the kind of book where I become a microreader (as with I.J.). I finished the Intro and Chapter 1 a couple of weeks ago and went back tonight.
An..."
I was interested in your comments about being seasoned by Infinite Jest and the effect it has had on your reading HoL.
Yes, this was my attempt at being optimistic reading HoL.. I was so excited and god knows, I've talked about it enough.
Maybe that's why most of what I remember about HoL (beside the fact that it was 15 years ago) is that it was weird and cool and not like anything else I'd read before.
That's interesting. I only finished IJ today, still carrying it too close...I do hope this subsides soon, I don't want to wait 15 years to read HoL! :P
Sarah wrote: "The first page of the intro has nuthouse with only house in blue. Page xviii has House of Blues. I'm having trouble finding them because you need the right lighting. Found it! Crackhouse on pag..."Intro
No, that's what was so riveting...Giving these words a flicker of serious emotion.
IntroductionSarah wrote: "The first page of the intro has nuthouse with only house in blue. Page xviii has House of Blues. I'm having trouble finding them because you need the right lighting."
Thanks for that! Yes, I had read this in dim lighting so I totally missed those. And I still had a hard time finding them even after you told me where they were.
First ImpressionsPaula wrote: "I always thought it was kind of cool, that collage page, but I never studied it before. Has anyone else?"
I didn't really study it until your post. I don't know why I studied the title page, but not the collage?! :D
So, I studied it after you mentioned it in your post and the first thing I noticed was the tape measures and had no clue why they were there, but after reading your thoughts now it totally makes sense about trying to figure out the size of the interior of the house. Yeah, the pills immediately made me think of Johnny and his troubles sleeping.
And your notice of the fonts is intriguing. Along with the pills, it does seem like all that stuff in the collage is Johnny's. It appears we've got some gruesome stuff coming ahead.
First ImpressionsSarah wrote: "A strange one - In Doctor Who the color blue is very significant because it's the color of the TARDIS, and the TARDIS is... bigger on the inside. That's how it's always described. I'll be curious ..."
Oooh!!! VERY COOL!! Love it, Sarah!
Linda wrote: "First ImpressionsPaula wrote: "I always thought it was kind of cool, that collage page, but I never studied it before. Has anyone else?"
I didn't really study it until your post. I don't know w..."
The tape measures were actually mentioned in the intro...i thought they were used to help create an enclosure within another enclosure; essentially, a room within a room? (bottom of XVIII and top of XIX)
IntroductionAmi wrote: "The tape measures were actually mentioned in the intro...i thought they were used to help create an enclosure within another enclosure; essentially, a room within a room?"
I'm already overlooking or forgetting details. Going back, I do remember reading this!
Maybe I needed more of a break between IJ and HoL?! This does appear that it's going to be very similar in teasing apart clues to get at the heart of the puzzle. Anyway, I forge ahead...
I had no idea what the tape measures were for. And what does it have to do with nails and caulking?This is going to be an excellent book to have multiple sets of eyes on.
Linda wrote: "IntroductionAmi wrote: "The tape measures were actually mentioned in the intro...i thought they were used to help create an enclosure within another enclosure; essentially, a room within a room?"..."
Me too! I totally missed that in the Intro, but I think I've been reading this book too late at night. It's atmospheric, but attention drops after 1:00 a.m. :-)
The first big shiver I got was when I turned past the Table of Contents to the page where all it says is:"This is not for you."
Whoa.
IntroductionJust some final thoughts on the introduction. I went back and read about the tape measures...how Johnny was trying to keep his room unchanging...and the tape measures allowed him to check to make sure that reality wasn't shifting. Of course Zampano couldn't use standard measures to make sure reality wasn't shifting, he had to rely on smell. Pretty darn effective and quite creative. But interesting that both of them had to cling with white knuckles to reality, hold on for dear life.
The other thing I did...on the page where Johnny talks about the sources that aren't real? He specifically mentions Bancroft Volume XXVIII? Well, that is an actual volume. I wonder why he says it's not?
Chapter II
I read This chapter today. I was actually pretty entertained by Johnny's story about his made up story. Which kind of mirrors HoL in that HoL is a book about a book that was written about a film. Stories within stories...like nesting dolls. Anyway, I was jolted by his admission that he inserted the word "water" in front of what Zampano wrote about Karen's comment about the heater. But you don't find out that Johnny has altered Zampano's text until he gets to the end of his story. So already, so early in his compilation of Zampano's text, he's making stuff up to make what he thinks is a better story. Which is what he did when he spun his elaborate story (all of which was a lie) to those two girls from the bar.
Even Lude, who knew the entire story was a fabrication, was hanging on every word. Which again, mirrors the whole Navidson Record, and whether any of it was true and if the question of its being based in fact really was beside the point.
This book is so reminiscent of I.J. The footnotes, a mysterious film, surreal environment, copious footnotes, references to popular culture. It also reminds me of Lost.
Linda wrote: "IntroductionAmi wrote: "The tape measures were actually mentioned in the intro...i thought they were used to help create an enclosure within another enclosure; essentially, a room within a room?"..."
Paula wrote: "Introduction
Just some final thoughts on the introduction. I went back and read about the tape measures...how Johnny was trying to keep his room unchanging...and the tape measures allowed him to c..."
Introduction
I went back and read about the tape measures...how Johnny was trying to keep his room unchanging...and the tape measures allowed him to check to make sure that reality wasn't shifting.
Hawk eyes, Paula, you have! Yes, this makes so much more sense to ensure he has an immutable space (XIX). I was under the impression he was trying to create a safe haven within the room, I missed the most important part it was about space-I missed immutable.
IntroductionSarah wrote: "I had no idea what the tape measures were for. And what does it have to do with nails and caulking?"
Paula mentioned this in her next post, about Zampano having to rely on his smell? So I assume the caulking was to seal up all the tiny spaces otherwise present when the windows were shut. To keep the inside of his apartment from shifting in smells from outside influences. And this makes sense that when Lude and Johnny later enter the apartment, how heavy with smell it was in there - no air circulation!
I don't think Johnny used caulking - he just mentioned the nails and locks to keep shut the windows and doors, and the tape measures to make sure the space was immutable, or unchanging. Thanks to Paula for pointing out this word (immutable) - when I read it I had meant to come back to it and look it up since I didn't know right off what it meant.
And I agree, Sarah - this book is going to take multiple sets of eyes!
IntroductionPaula wrote: "The other thing I did...on the page where Johnny talks about the sources that aren't real? He specifically mentions Bancroft Volume XXVIII? Well, that is an actual volume. I wonder why he says it's not?"
Kudos to you for looking that up! I looked myself to see what it even was after you said it was an actual volume. Frankly, I'm finding myself glossing over all of these book and magazine references. Although later in chapter II, there is a reference to an article in Science and I meant to look it up at work today to see if it was real or not, but it slipped my mind. I'll have to do that tomorrow.
Back to your question, I don't know why Johnny said it doesn't exist. However, Johnny says a few paragraphs later on the same page the quote that Ami mentioned - about how "it doesn't make a difference that the documentary is fiction, the consequences are the same". So I guess the same can be said for the references? It doesn't matter if it does exist?
Chapters I and IIAgain, more little details that I love about this book - for example the phrase all by itself before we get to The Navidson Record:
Muss es sein? which translates to "must it be?" What does this mean? Must this record, narrative, story be real? Must we read it? I don't know, but it's the only phrase on a big expanse of blank white page.
I like how there are also epigraphs for each chapter. It's kind of fun to try and figure them out, but usually I go back after I've read the chapter and they seem to make more sense then.
Paula wrote: I was actually pretty entertained by Johnny's story about his made up story.
Yes, I was entertained by the story too, Paula! And since IJ is still in my head, again, we have a footnote that tells a story all on it's own. I almost forgot that I was actually reading something else and that this was only a footnote. I was also surprised by Johnny's addition of "water" to the "heater" bit. Why did he do that? Because he took a cold shower, so he wanted to make the Navidson story and his own match more closely for some reason? But again, I guess it doesn't really matter, the outcome is still going to be the same?! :)
First ImpressionsAmi wrote: "I'm enjoying the excitement and intrigue created so far, but I'm also a little taken aback by the strong similarities in technique and content to Infinite Jest."
I just realized that Will Navidson's partner in HoL is named Karen Green. And Karen Green is the real life widow of David Foster Wallace.
Is this a big coincidence or small coincidence? As the argument in a particular Seinfeld episode went, are there degrees of coincidences?
First Impressions and Chapter II and IJ (again)Ami wrote: "I'm enjoying the excitement and intrigue created so far, but I'm also a little taken aback by the strong similarities in technique and content to Infinite Jest."
OK, this is the last time I'm going to bring up IJ in this thread - I promise! BUT, this morning I looked up that Science footnote #15 in chapter II (p. 11) to see if that was an actual article. There is a volume 265 that is published Aug 5, 1994, with page numbers that encompass page 741. But, the one article that is on that page is not "The Heart's Device" by Frances Leiderstahl. Instead it is an article titled "Pulling Hair from the Ground" by Virginia Morell. It's an archeological article about recovering hair strands from the ground and doing DNA sequencing from the extracted DNA to figure out more about the people who lived there. So, I thought what does this have to do with Navidson and Karen? Since FN 15 referred to a passage about how much "Navidson values Karen". Then I thought no more about it.
Until...I was reading Ami's post in the IJ week 17 thread and she quoted this passage: digging up some dead guy's head and it's really important, like 'Continental Emergency important only to realize the kid holds up something terrible up by the hair. And I immediately thought of this HoL's reference to a real Science article about digging up hair from people long gone, which it wasn't actually referencing since they put in some made-up article title, but it was more of a hidden IJ easter egg perhaps??
Maybe this is way out there and I do really need more time between the IJ and HoL read!!
Linda wrote: "First ImpressionsAmi wrote: "I'm enjoying the excitement and intrigue created so far, but I'm also a little taken aback by the strong similarities in technique and content to Infinite Jest."
I j..."
Nope, I don't think it's a coincidence at all...I really don't.
Linda wrote: "First Impressions and Chapter II and IJ (again)Ami wrote: "I'm enjoying the excitement and intrigue created so far, but I'm also a little taken aback by the strong similarities in technique and c..."
Look, I'm just glad I'm not the only one...I was really afraid because I was finding too many similarities, it would prevent me from enjoying HoL, rendering me unable to limit its nuances to it alone, instead of IJ. Until last night, when I read......that insulation or siding is the only possible thing this doorway could lead to, which is hen all laughter stops, as Navidosn's hand appears in the frame and pulls open the door, revealing narrow black hallway least ten feet long...-my heart beat a little faster than expected(4).
I think instead of using the other thread for footnotes, we should instead utilize it for IJ parallels and similarities. LOL!
Honestly, couldn't Danielewski have worded this a little different...Dissemination of the 'The Five and half Minute Hallway...' "dissemination..." really, how many times have I read it in IJ? :)
I felt the air of "blair witch" in Chapter 2 was rather thick too, I can see it now.
I also felt both Karen (scandalous, supposedly) and Navidson (obsession about work to the point of alienating from family) easily parallel both Avril and Himself, towards the end of Chapter 2?
Great work and info on the article...Thank you!
Chapters 1 I've mentioned a little about Chapter 1 in some responses to a few of your posts, but yes, the ties to IJ continue along, be it word choice or characters. However, I found my first bit of nuance ...A nuance I was really affected by and it was the description of the space beyond the door in the hallway "being nothing more than siding or insulation," but it turns out to be a space revealing a narrow black hallway at least ten feet long... in the "The Five and Half Minute Hallway" (4). Sorry to be repetitious, but I was really excited by this...
Next, in "Exploration #4," I found this very reminiscent of "The Blair Witch Project," with Holloway Roberts discovering something is stalking him, while lost in the house completely disoriented (5). I thought it was hilarious to read in FN 7 how the subtitles in both docs were Arguably 'interpretive,' especially in the case of Holloway's garbled patter where even the subtitles appear as 'incomprehensible onomatopoeia or just question marks-I'm not sure if it was meant to be funny, I thought it was (6).
Chapter 2
I have a sense of foreboding for the documentarians and their families, as both the House and chronicles obviously exude a rather ominous air and because of this, I felt terrible for Navidson, taking into consideration his intentions for creating a record of how Karen and I bought a small house in the country and moved into it with our children...-the genesis was so quaint and idyllic, I guess (8-9).
There's something to be said about a child's thoughts and intuition, which is apparent in Chad's response to his Dad about the silence in the country; saying, Sometimes it's just to quiet...It's like something is waiting-Oh boy (9). Oh and what about Karen's remark as Navidson is throwing out her hair from the hair brush...More foreshadowing, I don't know?!!! (11).
Danielewski sure knows how to write about the most simplest aspects of life in a most sinister manner. Granted, this is really my first scary/horror type novel (not counting the classics..."Dracula, The Haunted Hotel, The Haunting of Hill House, etc), I'll admit. I've never even read anything by the master, Stephen King ("IT" is on my TBR), so I'm not sure how this really compares?
Paula wrote: "IntroductionJust some final thoughts on the introduction. I went back and read about the tape measures...how Johnny was trying to keep his room unchanging...and the tape measures allowed him to c..."
Chapter 2
HoL is a book about a book that was written about a film.
Loved your nesting doll reference here, I think my set was missing a piece not taking into account the actual book between my two hands...DUH! SMH!
I was jolted by his admission that he inserted the word "water" in front of what Zampano wrote about Karen's comment about the heater.
I wondered "why"...Why add "water" to the narrative. Then with the dialogue which followed, was Truant having a conversation with himself, or with somebody else, or was it me, the reader? I think it must have been with himself, but I could be wrong.
Linda wrote: "First ImpressionsAmi wrote: "I'm enjoying the excitement and intrigue created so far, but I'm also a little taken aback by the strong similarities in technique and content to Infinite Jest."
I j..."
Karen Green - I didn't make that connection at all, thank you so much for pointing it out. I wonder how DFW responded to HoL. I mean, I would assume he read it, although I'd have to see if it was on the list of his archived books in Texas.
Chapter IIIThis is a very short chapter, still basically setting the scene for what's ahead of us. Usually too much of this gets on my nerves, but not with HoL. I suppose it's because there is so much interesting stuff packed into even such a small chapter.
Here is something I highlighted and when I looked it up, it really started giving me that shivery feeling of suspense I want in a book like this.
"Why Davidson? Considering the practically preadamite history of the house, it was inevitable someone like Navidson would eventually enter those rooms."
When I read "preadamite", I just assumed (correctly) that it meant before Adam. Which initially meant to me, really old house :). However, I decided to google the term and there's a lot more to it than that. It's a term used to describe a race of beings that inhabited the earth prior to the creation of Adam. There are a number of speculative theories on the subject, but one of them I thought might appeal to MZD is this one: from Genesis, we learn that the Earth was void, dark, formless, but yet had water (God moved his face over the waters). So, if it had water, then it really couldn't be formless, right?
Anyway, if we go with Genesis, where the Earth existed in some form prior to the beginning of the creation story, then it existed in total darkness (prior to God saying "let there be light"). So, if there was a race of beings that existed on the Earth before the beginning of the 7 days of creation, then these beings lived in total darkness.
From this speculation is one theory that ties to the Satan story. That Lucifer was cast out of heaven into darkness. So, some pre-Adamite theorists speculate that this outer darkness was really the Earth and therefore became occupied by evil: Lucifer and his followers.
So, if we take that package of theories and wed it to the House ("practically preadmamite"), it goes to follow that the House is ancient beyond our very imagining, containing a darkness we cannot fathom...and filled with beings that are completely alien to what we know and can understand.
Anything that existed in that alien, formless time before God gave structure and light to the Earth...well, it wouldn't be hard for such a structure to bend time, light, sound, etc. because it is outside the laws of our physics.
And one step further. Perhaps the House isn't really a house. Perhaps it is really one of those dark beings? Or maybe it is a structure that gives some kind of form to those beings?
I can see this appealing to MZD very, very much. I mean, why else would he have phrased it as he did?
And it makes for spooky times ahead for us :). Ancient, malevolent and dark.
Paula wrote: "Linda wrote: "First ImpressionsAmi wrote: "I'm enjoying the excitement and intrigue created so far, but I'm also a little taken aback by the strong similarities in technique and content to Infini..."
the funny thing is, MZD never even read IJ. His only familiarity with it was knowing it too contained footnotes...I'm calling shenanigans on MZD. I finally cross referenced the two titles and found this information from an interview MZD did.
So, if we take that package of theories and wed it to the House ("practically preadmamite"), it goes to follow that the House is ancient beyond our very imagining, containing a darkness we cannot fathom...and filled with beings that are completely alien to what we know and can understand.
I'm loving this! I too was originally under the impression the house was just "very" old. There are some images towards the end of the book I caught when I was looking through the book...It's very eery, but helps conceptualize what's we're about to encounter also.
Chapter IVChapter IV is where we read about the House starting to reshape itself on the inside, with no change to the facade. There's a new space, resembling a walk-in closet. Then a 1/4" grows to a foot by the end. I can't even imagine the creepiness of coming home from a trip and discovering a new room, complete with white door and glass knob. I wouldn't even pack. I'd be out of there faster than a New York heartbeat.
Karen is completely spooked (smart girl) and Navidson is - unsurprisingly - intrigued more than anything else. The rest of the chapter describes the elaborate internal measurements that take place to find that 1/4" discrepancy until that gets blown out of the picture by the extra foot of space that appears next to the new bookcase.
In Truant's footnotes, we find out more about how he has been faring (not well at all). He also meets a pretty girl, Amber, who used to read to Zampano. There were some interesting tidbits in the footnotes that I'm puzzling over:
o Zampano had a shotgun under his bed, with the initials RLB? I wonder who RLB is?
o Then Truant writes: "Zampano himself probably would of insisted on corrections and edits, he was his own harshest critic...". Now, how does Truant know that Zampano was his own harshest critic? He never even met him. It makes me suspicious of Truant. I feel as if we're only seeing a thin slice of something.
o Amber says that she had asked Zampano if he had any children. "He said he didn't have any children any more.". What a peculiar statement! Even if your children have passed away, you never say I used to have children but I don't anymore. To a parent, you always have children.
Truant also morphs from his reminiscence about Amber to memories about a jack-knifed trailer. That transition was very confusing to me until I realized that Truant's memories have now floated to another memory in his past. Sounds as if he's talking about his father and how he died. I found that very poignant. And also containing another mystery: Truant was then taken by "officials responsible for the custody of parentless children". Where was his mother? He was only 10.
And one last thing. I was hunting for something in the Introduction last night and I came across a comment Zampano made about his project. He called it his masterpiece or his "precious darling".
He called it his Precious! Like Golem called the Ring of Power in LoTR. Because of LoTR, I think of a "Precious" as being the focus of an all-consuming obsession. I thought this was a cool thing for Danielewski to evoke with Zampano and his manuscript.
Oops one more thing in the Introduction. Truant says Zampano scribbled until he died. I wonder why since he was blind?
Zampano and Truant puzzle me a lot.
@39 Ami:Regarding preadamite...the frequent quotes from Dante and Milton are gaining more relevance. Sounds like Zampano certainly believed the House was evil. Maybe even a gateway to Hell.
Chapters III and IVPaula wrote: "When I read "preadamite", I just assumed (correctly) that it meant before Adam. Which initially meant to me, really old house :). However, I decided to google the term and there's a lot more to it than that."
Very spooky analysis, Paula! And just glossing over that term "preadamite" myself let me slip right past a really important aspect of the house and story that you picked up on. Thanks for that detailed outline of your thinking process too, that was great!
Perhaps the House isn't really a house. Perhaps it is really one of those dark beings? Or maybe it is a structure that gives some kind of form to those beings?
Paula, I wonder if the "beings" you speak of here has anything to do with what we learn later in chapter IV? We find out from Amber (FN 41) that she suspected that Zampano was "imperceivable and alone, though not I think so lonely." and that he said to her "Of course, you're all my children"..."It was like that tiny place of his was suddenly full of faces and he could see them all...". I know this would be in Zampano's apartment and not the Navidson house, but he was clearly afraid of something in his own apartment, as we also see Johnny becoming afraid of things happening around him. I wonder - just the act of reading about the Navidson house is a way to link a portal (or something of the sort) for these beings to appear? If so, THAT is spooky!
Chapter IVPaula wrote: "Zampano had a shotgun under his bed, with the initials RLB? I wonder who RLB is?"
I remember the shotgun, but not the initials. Good spot, Paula, and something to take note of.
Then Truant writes: "Zampano himself probably would of insisted on corrections and edits, he was his own harshest critic...". Now, how does Truant know that Zampano was his own harshest critic? He never even met him. It makes me suspicious of Truant.
Again, something I missed. Yes, how DOES Truant know that Zampano is his own harshest critic. This is suspect, as in which narrator and notes/letters can we believe? We are TOLD Zampano and Johnny are two separate people, but who is telling us this? Is it possible that there is one person and two personalities? I clearly haven't thought this through yet, but it just popped into my head when I read Paula's question.
"He said he didn't have any children any more.". What a peculiar statement!
YES. This statement totally weirded me out. It was not a natural thing to say.
Truant also morphs from his reminiscence about Amber to memories about a jack-knifed trailer. That transition was very confusing to me until I realized that Truant's memories have now floated to another memory in his past.
This was confusing to me as well and I had to read it over a couple of times at least. It was like the good ol' Johnny we've been spending time with so far (the tall-tale bar stories) was transformed into someone else, at least for the sake of the narrative style.
He called it his Precious! Like Golem called the Ring of Power in LoTR. Because of LoTR, I think of a "Precious" as being the focus of an all-consuming obsession
OK - that is awesome!
Oops one more thing in the Introduction. Truant says Zampano scribbled until he died. I wonder why since he was blind?
Another thing I didn't pick up on, but I don't think we knew that Zampano was blind in the introduction yet, did we? Anyway, good catch again, Paula!
Clearly I need to be taking better notes.
Also, like you said at the beginning of this post, I would TOTALLY be out of that house too. :)
Linda wrote: "Chapters III and IVPaula wrote: "When I read "preadamite", I just assumed (correctly) that it meant before Adam. Which initially meant to me, really old house :). However, I decided to google the..."
Linda I love what you say about just reading or being exposed to the manuscript may be opening a portal. I agree, this makes so much sense. At first I thought maybe the manuscript itself had driven Zampano, and now Truant, crazy, but the portal idea to...whatever it is...resonates more with me. That's a good one! Also the hair reference, that was a great connection.
Here's another random idea I had. I wonder if MZD had another motive with all the footnotes - some real and some not, making us track them down, drawing us in more deeply. I wonder if he was trying to make us, his readers, develop an obsession with HoL, just as Truant and Z became obsessed with TNR. Hopefully not quite as nutty although if I hear any of you talking about putting tape measures up in your rooms, I'm going to be concerned :-).
Chapters III and IVPaula wrote: "I wonder if MZD had another motive with all the footnotes....I wonder if he was trying to make us, his readers, develop an obsession with HoL, just as Truant and Z became obsessed with TNR."
If so, then I'm shaking my fist at MZD! :)
Paula said: "And one step further. Perhaps the House isn't really a house. Perhaps it is really one of those dark beings? Or maybe it is a structure that gives some kind of form to those beings?"Good God, Paula, you're giving me super creepy chills!
Oops one more thing in the Introduction. Truant says Zampano scribbled until he died. I wonder why since he was blind?
I wondered this same thing. And how was he continually reorganizing and reading the pages?
Hopefully not quite as nutty although if I hear any of you talking about putting tape measures up in your rooms, I'm going to be concerned :-).
You don't have to worry about me. If my house is bigger on the inside I don't want to know about it.
I loved that moment when the books fell and Karen screamed. Awesome moment. It was puzzling though that this particular time their measurements were perfect. Yet that was when there was an obvious change.
As for why Johnny added 'water' in front of heater, I thought he was trying to show us how tenuous our grasp on reality is. Kind of a "You believed me about that so how do you know anything is true" thing.
I think the blue house thing is very eerie. It tends to send up a flare that something is different, which gives me chills before I can even register that it was blue.
And now to my own notes:
Did anybody think his job was odd? He's an assistant to a tattoo artist. I have twelve tattoos and I can honestly say that my artist has never had an assistant. And why this field in particular? Why not a grocery checker or a movie store clerk? There is something strange about this choice of profession and I'm curious to see where he's going with it.
I loved the scene where it was describing how fierce and mean Flaze was and then Flaze suddenly couldn't find the keys Boy this made me laugh. Then he waits for Lude to volunteer before Flaze immediately found the keys. This was a very funny situation and I would love to see Flaze pop in again.
I was puzzled about why Johnny started to be worrying about his house. Johnny isn't living where Zampano lived, right? And Zampano isn't living in the Navidson house? So why are all of these residences a bit shaky on the laws of physics?
At the end of the introduction we have Johnny talking about how shadows start to seem deeper and then You might try then, as I did, to find a sky so full of stars it will blind you again. If you were looking for light to blind you, why would you choose stars over the sun?
Also, when Johnny signs the introduction, it's dated October 31. Why does he choose Halloween/Dia de los Muertos as the day to sign this letter?
Linda, I liked the catch on Muss es sein.
At the beginning of Chapter I, I completely loved that he started it with the quote from The Beatles A Day in the Life. "I saw a film today, oh boy". Plus there's the whole "He blew his mind out in a car". So when I read this quote, it really set a stage for me. It was so fantastic.
On page 6 there's a curious statement about the compression of space, the power of the imagination to decompress space It's the power of imagination that captured my attention here. How does imagination decompress space? Is this why their homes are growing? Because they've unleashed their imaginations by accepting the impossible? In a similar vein, we have on page 21 While Pollit is not alone in asserting that Navidson's psychology profoundly influenced the nature of those rooms and hallways How does psychology affect the physical laws of one's environment?
Considering his own history, talent and emotional background, only Navidson could have gone as deep as he did and still have successfully brought that vision back I can completely understand this. An emotionally damaged person can sometimes be far more resilient that the norm. They've been down to depths that others aren't even aware of. It makes total sense to me.
And Ami, you probably jumped for joy when he says I know THC doesn't create any lasting physical dependencies . That was hilarious since IJ had so many addicts.
This was beautiful to me: Which is how we know they are brothers, because like Tom, Navidson's eyes share the same water It's not that they both have water in their eyes but that they share the same water.
I got it all in. :) One other thing. There was another Doctor Who moment. What has me curious is that I've never seen the original series, so I'm picking up stuff out of the new series only. But the new series didn't start until after this was published. I'm suspicious of coincidence and I'm curious to see if there's more. I'm wondering if the more recent writers have read HoL.
I've now had The Beatles' A Day in the Life stuck in my head for a couple of days, and I think there's another piece that fits this."Four thousand holes in Blackburn, Lancashire
And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all"
They counted four thousand tiny little holes? Kind of like measuring and re-measuring the same house over and over? I think that song was a great opening quote.
Sarah wrote: "I've now had The Beatles' A Day in the Life stuck in my head for a couple of days, and I think there's another piece that fits this."Four thousand holes in Blackburn, Lancashire
And though the ho..."
Introduction-Chapter IV
If I can get past this introduction, I'd be a happy woman. To your finding a connection between A Day in the Life and this House we've decided to enter, I've got a little tid bit for you to ponder on...
I was listening to the Stones the other day, (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction, when Jagger sang:
"When I'm drivin' in my car
And that man comes on the radio
And he's tellin' me more and more
About some useless information
Supposed to fire my imagination
I can't get no, oh no no no"
I happened to recall a note I made next to At first only 'curiosity" drove me...Of course 'curiosity' killed the cat, I thought there was a play on the word curiosity and the representation of cats* (XVIII). Rereading this section I found a link between the song lyrics and Truant's insight into his current state here..
Of course 'curiosity' killed the cat, and even if 'satisfaction' supposedly brought it back, there's still that little problem with
the man on the radio telling me more and more about some useless information.
But I didn't care. I just turned the radio off (XVIII).
The effect of the book has left him in disarray, perplexed and on a losing streak...To the point where absolutely "nothing" is pacifying him. Do you think it could mean anything else?
*I think there's a parallel between Zampano's cats and his female readers...The cats were either missing, or mutilated and dead. In Chapter IV we learn Zampano had many women who read to him, but they either disappeared and cannot be found, or left under some other mysterious circumstances. Amber Rightacre is the only one who could be found, and she spoke of Zampano very candidly to Truant-it was an effortless interaction between the two (FN 41)-I'm not sure why I found this to be peculiar?
Chapter IVAs I read IV, I began to realize the course of events in Truants life directly parallel those of Navidson. Odd occurrences have taken place in both the House for Navidson, and book for Truant, raising many questions. But it was not until Chapter IV, where the beginnings of their madness sets in.
I noticed this about Truant when he copied the German translation of Sein und Zeit and says Crazier still, I've just now been wondering if something about this passage may have actually affected me..., but still can't make heads of tails of it? Nothing concrete in his findings resorting to the passage being non-sense(25).
The 1/4" and finally 5/16" disparity in the measurements between the outside of the house and inside, obviously, was the beginning of the end for Navidson in my eyes (30). I could literally feel the compulsivity and insanity digging its claws into both men.
Now, on page 26 Truant describes an ominous presence (I have a feeling I will be over utilizing this description throughout these discussions rendering it meaningless by the time we get to the end. I apologize ahead of time for this.) with the scent of something bitter and foul, something inhuman...Following him? I loved the next part where he gives us directive on how to read the paragraph transporting us to the alley behind the tattoo parlor and into Truant's head space-I've never read anything as exciting as this, I literally had to check and make sure there wasn't anything lurking behind my sofa.
To add insult to injury, I read this section, in particular, wearing headphones while listening to TV on the Radio's "Wolf Like Me-Did not even realize it was on the playlist! Portishead's "Dummy" album, played as I read the rest of the chapter mixed with some Peer Gynt, Stones, and The National. I've noticed, I'm taken with this book more so, when I am cut off from any distractions (i.e. television on in the background, faint discussions around me, dogs barking, etc). There's something to be said about the seclusion brought about by the "Navidson Records" for these two men...I can attest to it. Well, me, my headphones & music! Paula says it best I wonder if he was trying to make us, his readers, develop an obsession with HoL, just as Truant and Z became obsessed with TNR... I think he is, Paula. LoL!
Once Truant re-enters the parlor, he's forgotten something very important. But then he doesn't remember if what he was supposed to remember ever entered his head to begin with...Did this passage not make your chest grow heavy (27)? This man is not only battling some outside natural evil force, supposedly, but he's constantly at war with himself. Doesn't this beg the question, how credible is Truant...He's editing and adding to Zampano's narrative, but to what avail and why?
Gems I thought were worth making Note of
Unheimlich Uncanny...Not being at home (28)
Former owners and the addition of an ell that was never built. This is an extension to a building usually at right angles...Amber Rightacre . An ell is also a form of measurement, about 45", and also short for elbow.
FN 35 Appendix II-A...Did you see these sketches denoting the mysterious 1/4"(570-571)? My first thought was how M.C. Escher-ish the drawings were because of the great detail paid to the intricacies in spatial depth perception, only to turn the page and read After all, it is not so large a problem when one can puzzle over an Escher print and then close the book (30). How true this statement was for me, I spent at least 30 minutes looking at these drawings by Navidson.
FN 36 I thought the use of camera lucida from FN 33 page 27 bears greater light in this FN when Truant discusses why he wouldn't remove the mourning paper scene from Zampano's narrative. mourning/morning
So cameria lucida is an apparatus which brings into focus the subject it's affiliated background and superimposes it onto whatever surface; essentially, bringing into great focus the object/subject...I think this is how it works, correct me if I'm wrong. :)
Truant in FN 36 literally says, in regards to maybe editing the morning paper scene, that he wouldn't because what's gained in economy doesn't really seem to make up what you lose of Zampano, the old man himself, coming a little more into focus, especially where digressions like these are concerned (31). And what an even better example of this hyper focused attribute when Truant describes the scene where he's the object focused on by some apparition (27).
It's also here in FN I got a sense of how soulful Truant can be despite his raw hardcore shell. He discusses how Zampano was his own harshest critic further stating written errors, are often the only markers left by a solitary life: 'to sacrifice them is to lose the angles of personality,' the riddle of the soul. 'In this case a very old soul. A very old riddle'. This passage struck a real chord with me.
Edith Skourja's essay Riddles Without
Alright, I could be very wrong here, but in the line Their delight lies in solutions, I think lie has two meanings here. There's already doubt building as far as the realities of the characters and their experiences, and this section is all about the validity of "riddles" (33).
FN 45 This footnote is incomplete and can be read in Chapter 9, as the footnote tells you to do...Did anybody read further, I didn't read any comments about this, so I'm wondering if I should use spoilers? On 38, it says the FN is buried beneath a particular dark spill of ink. At least 'I'm assuming it's ink.' Maybe it's not. Maybe it's something else. In the recovered text, on page 107-114, I followed this approach: X, 135, 129, back to the X and finally 120, and then back to Chapter 4 (view spoiler).
I think we should keep an eye out for other music lyrics. I don't think these are coincidences at all. That was a great catch about the cats and women. I didn't even notice that and there has to be a parallel I would think.
As for Sein und Zeit, I have no idea what he's trying to say. The only things of interest I'm finding are that a Google search turned up Dasein as also meaning "presence" or "existence", which to me feels very different from what he's saying. When I read his comments, I'm getting a feeling of emptiness, a lack of presence if anything. The only other thing I found is the comment on Page 6 that talks about imagination decompressing space. I don't know if these are linked or not.
Reading the Chunksters
Books mentioned in this topic
The Unbearable Lightness of Being (other topics)Infinite Jest (other topics)
House of Leaves (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Milan Kundera (other topics)Mark Z. Danielewski (other topics)
I know there is a group of dedicated readers here, and I hope you will enjoy this read. My advice is a tree-copy is a must, and yes, a mirror is also a plus :-)
Good luck, guys. I will be lurking. I really enjoyed the willies the book gave me.