Appointment With Agatha discussion
2021: Organizing the side reads
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The side reads: themes
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Great idea. Possible further themes (using examples of books that I think many here will be familiar with -- not necessarily as suggestions of books to be read; I think a lot of people will already have read these, in fact):
* Mysteries with a noticeable scientific element (e.g., Sayers & Eustace, "The Documents in the Case")
* Courtroom dramas (e.g., Raymond Postgate, "Verdict of Twelve")
* Political settings (e.g., Ellen Wilkinson, "The Division Bell Mystery")
* Mysteries solved by a detective on vacation (e.g., Dorothy L. Sayers, "Have His Carcase")
* Mysteries "actively" featuring WWII (e.g., Christianna Brand, "Green for Danger" -- being set in a hospital, this one could also be used for the science mysteries)
* One hit wonders -- mysteries that are either their authors' sole known literary output, or their sole foray into the mystery genre (e.g., A-A. Milne, "The Red House Mystery")
* Mysteries by the founder members of the Detection Club (Sayers, Christie, Chesterton, Orczy, Berkeley, etc.) vs. mysteries by later members (e.g., Gladys Mitchell)
Themis-Athena (Lioness at Large) wrote: "Great idea. Possible further themes (using examples of books that I think many here will be familiar with -- not necessarily as suggestions of books to be read; I think a lot of people will alrea..."
Great suggestions, Themis. I had a few additional that I came up with:
timetable murders
poison pen murders (if we can come up with more than just Poison in the Pen)
different murder weapons: poison/guns/knives
academic murders (taking place in colleges/universities/schools)
reverse mysteries
I thought of a couple more -ripped from the headlines (based on real crimes of the times)
not part of a series
theater/actors
Yes to all of the above!Would it be worthwhile adding journalistic sleuths as another theme? They're pretty prevalent in modern mystery writing and, at first blush, look like a "natural" choice for a detective MC, but I can think of only a few examples from the world of Golden Age Mysteries where a journalist actually shows up as a detective. Maybe because it was too close to home for those who had a past or a side line in that field themselves ... and other writers actually did despise the crime reporters whom they so heavily satirized in their books?
Related question: Who besides Harriet Vane and Ariadne Oliver can we think of as (fictional) sleuthing mystery writers?
Maybe we can lump all of the above into a single category, such as "scribbling sleuths" ... or something along those lines?
Themis-Athena (Lioness at Large) wrote: "Yes to all of the above!Would it be worthwhile adding journalistic sleuths as another theme? They're pretty prevalent in modern mystery writing and, at first blush, look like a "natural" choice f..."
Ahem, ... Paul Temple. ;) However, I'm not seriously recommending the Temple stories. The radio plays are fun, but the novelisations are really, really bad.
I'll have a think about other, more worthy, candidates.
BrokenTune wrote: "Ahem, ... Paul Temple. ;) However, I'm not seriously recommending the Temple stories. The radio plays are fun, but the novelisations are really, really bad.I'll have a think about other, more worthy, candidates."
Yes, Paul Temple is one of the few examples I did have in mind (also the inspector's son in Melville's "Quick Curtain" -- and Ellery Queen (the character, that is) as another sleuthing writer). Somehow, it would be a pity if we couldn't come up with enough examples.
Also, and on a related note: Mysteries featuring artists or set in the world of arts!
Taking our 2021 scheduled reads:January: 1924 The Man in the Brown Suit
February: 1925 The Secret of Chimneys
March: 1926 The Murder of Roger Ackroyd
April: 1927 The Big Four
May: 1928 The Mystery of the Blue Train
June: 1929 The Seven Dials Mystery
July: 1930 The Murder at the Vicarage
August: 1931 The Sittaford Mystery
September: 1932 Peril at End House
October: 1933 Lord Edgware Dies
November: 1934 Why Didn’t They Ask Evans?
December: Murder on the Orient Express
I came up with these themes to go along with them for our side read, so everyone can start coming up with potential books:
January: Murder by transport - planes, trains & boats.
February: Political mystery/murder
March: English village murder
April: Mystery with thriller/spy elements
May: Mystery that takes place in France
June: Set in London
July: Mystery that involves church/vicar/cleric
August: Superstition, ghosts, mediums, tarot cards
September: Set on the English coast
October: Actors/theater/playwright
November: Victim without a identity
December: A snowy mystery
I am so excited!! Not only Christie... but all these glorious side reads too. 🥳
Great, thanks Christine! I don´t remember if the side reads have to be from the Golden Age too?
Michaela wrote: "Great, thanks Christine! I don´t remember if the side reads have to be from the Golden Age too?"1970 or earlier!
Christine PNW wrote: "Michaela wrote: "Great, thanks Christine! I don´t remember if the side reads have to be from the Golden Age too?"1970 or earlier!"
Thanks! :)
I was going to recommend murder by transport, so I'm thrilled to see it already on the list!
I've changed themes around a bit for next year and posted the thread for January nominations!
Related question: Who besides Harriet Vane and Ariadne Oliver can we think of as (fictional) sleuthing mystery writers?Ellery Queen?? Although he is simple recounting his successes.
Mystery writers specifically who are sleuths I have a hard time thinking of beyond Vane/Oliver/Queen, but I can think of a few more who would fit "scribbling scribes." Amanda Cross's Kate Fansler, for example, who is a professor of English in her day job.
I know that we have set a cut off of written before 1970 on our side reads, but with 60 books to read over the next 5 years, would there be any interest in reading one of today's Gold Age Wannabes, such as "Her Royal Spyness," "Maisie Dobbs" "Inspector Ian Rutledge" "Heathcliff Lennox" maybe even Sara Rosett.
I´d wanted to read the Royal Spyness series anyway, so yes for that! Only read the first one and loved it! :)
Michaela wrote: "I´d wanted to read the Royal Spyness series anyway, so yes for that! Only read the first one and loved it! :)"I've read the first seven so far. They're great fun. They're also quite firmly grounded in historical detail about the goings on of the British Royals.
Peregrina651 wrote: would there be any interest in reading one of today's Gold Age Wannabes, such as "Her Royal Spyness," "Maisie Dobbs" "Inspector Ian Rutledge" "Heathcliff Lennox" maybe even Sara Rosett. I’d also be interested. I’ve read some of the Maisie Dobbs and really enjoyed them. I enjoy the time period so appreciate books set then, even if written now, as long as they are well written and do justice to the time period.
Peregrina651 wrote: "I know that we have set a cut off of written before 1970 on our side reads, but with 60 books to read over the next 5 years, would there be any interest in reading one of today's Gold Age Wannabes,..."I've read Her Royal Spyness and I DNF'd the first Maisie Dobbs. They do nothing for me. I'll be skipping those group reads.
If we're going to have historical fiction side reads set in the Golden Age period, I'd vote for having them as a separate category (not included in the regular "side read" monthly reads but in addition to them). These books may be well-researched, but they're still quite distinct animals. Personally, I like quite a number of those series -- though typically not in the vein of Rhys Bowen's -- but it's one thing for a writer to write about their own time (and, incidentally, being subject to the commentary and criticism of their contemporaries) and a totally different thing for an author to write about a time that neither they themselves nor most (if any) of their readers have personally experienced. I don't want to open up the whole "accuracy in historical fiction" debate ... suffice it to say, when a particular book is *set* shouldn't be the defining criterion but when it was *written".
Themis-Athena (Lioness at Large) wrote: "If we're going to have historical fiction side reads set in the Golden Age period, I'd vote for having them as a separate category (not included in the regular "side read" monthly reads but in addi..."I agree. In fact one of the aspects we could look at once we've read a few in this category is how the modern authors differ in their descriptions, and the setting and tone of their books to the ones written at the time
Peregrina651 wrote: "I know that we have set a cut off of written before 1970 on our side reads, but with 60 books to read over the next 5 years, would there be any interest in reading one of today's Gold Age Wannabes,..."Okay, when I suggested this, I suggested that it be only one of the 60 side-reads that we do, not an on-going thing. I suggested it because I thought it might be interesting to look at how well, or not so well, the one book that is chosen captures the "Golden Age" vibe that we have been immersing themselves in (regardless of historical accuracy).
I suggested this because there seems to be a current trend of homage to "Golden Age" and it is not going away. Why is this happening? Why are they so popular? How do they stand up against the "Golden Age" authors? Etc.
I'm not suggesting that we do it more than once or that things drag out for more than a month, only that it might be a topic worth exploring.
Or maybe, since we are only doing this once in 60 side-reads, that we don't pick one particular one but that we each choose one of 3-5 choices (all by different authors).
Jazzy wrote: "I would like a BLCC read."Funny you should mention that - I was also thinking that it would be fun to do a BLCC month sometime this year. Keep your eyes peeled!
Christine PNW wrote: "Jazzy wrote: "I would like a BLCC read."Funny you should mention that - I was also thinking that it would be fun to do a BLCC month sometime this year. Keep your eyes peeled!"
Thank you Christine! let me know in time to see if i can buy it!
Jazzy wrote: "I would like a BLCC read."What's BLCC?
Mike wrote: "Jazzy wrote: "I would like a BLCC read."What's BLCC?"
British Library Crime Classics.
I didn't know that before either Mike. :)
Christine PNW wrote: "Jazzy wrote: "I was also thinking that it would be fun to do a BLCC month sometime this year. Keep your eyes peeled!"Oh, hooray!!
Christine PNW wrote: "Mike wrote: "Jazzy wrote: "I would like a BLCC read."What's BLCC?"
British Library Crime Classics."
Oh, but so many to choose from! I don't think we could go wrong with any of them.
Tara wrote: "Oh, but so many to choose from! I don't think we could go wrong with any of them."Maybe we could make the BLCC month one where we're picking a BLCC edition of a book that doesn't already fit into one of our other -- at least: one of our then-still-upcoming -- side read topics?
Not sure to what extent this would limit the selection, but it would at least go some way towards not duplicating things ...
I'm making some adjustments to the themes for the rest of 2021: February: Political mystery/murder
March: English village murder
April: Mystery with thriller/spy elements
May: Mystery that takes place in France
June: BLCC mystery
July: poll of Runners up
August: American author
September: Set on the English coast
October: Mystery written by Ngaio Marsh
November: Victim without a identity
December: A snowy mystery
I may tweak the themes further as the year goes on, but this is what I have planned at this point. I will open the nomination thread for the May side-read in early March.
Themis-Athena (Lioness at Large) wrote: "Tara wrote: "Oh, but so many to choose from! I don't think we could go wrong with any of them."Maybe we could make the BLCC month one where we're picking a BLCC edition of a book that doesn't alr..."
Funny - I was just tweaking the monthly themes a little bit at the same time that you posted!
Christine PNW wrote: "Funny - I was just tweaking the monthly themes a little bit at the same time that you posted!."Great minds, and all that ... :D
More potential side read themes:* Couples: Mysteries featuring sleuthing couples (Sayers: Wimsey and Vane; Marsh: Alleyn and Troy; Delano Ames: Jane and Dagobert Brown, etc.)
-- possibly as a side read for the next Tommy and Tuppence book (N or M?) --
... and / or mysteries written by real-life couples (e.g., G.D.H. and Margaret Cole) ...
... and as an adjacent to those:
*Author Teams: Mysteries written by several authors teaming up and writing under a joint pen name (Francis Beeding, Q. Patrick, Ellery Queen, etc.)
Themis-Athena (Lioness at Large) wrote: "More potential side read themes:* Couples: Mysteries featuring sleuthing couples (Sayers: Wimsey and Vane; Marsh: Alleyn and Troy; Delano Ames: Jane and Dagobert Brown, etc.)
-- possibly as a si..."
Great ideas-the Mr. & Mrs. North mysteries are fun, too!
Christine PNW wrote: "[T]he Mr. & Mrs. North mysteries are fun, too!"AND they fit in both the "sleuthing couples" *and* the "author couples" category!
It just occurred to me that if we read the BLCC Resorting to Murder anthology in August, we'll sort of be double-dipping on the "set on the English Coast" theme currently pencilled in for September, as a number of the stories contained in that anthology (though not all of them) actually *are* set on the English (or, at least, British) coast.Suggestion:
Change the September theme to one of those dropped in the side read theme reshuffle (superstition or church-related)? Superstition actually would fit, in an only slightly twisted way, with our main September book (Peril at End House) ...
Themis-Athena (Lioness at Large) wrote: "It just occurred to me that if we read the BLCC Resorting to Murder anthology in August, we'll sort of be double-dipping on the "set on the English Coast" theme currently pencilled in for September..."I really like that idea.
The superstition theme would be great for October as it has a more Halloween-y vibe. Maybe we could move the Marsh book up to September?
Tara wrote: "The superstition theme would be great for October as it has a more Halloween-y vibe. Maybe we could move the Marsh book up to September?"I suspect Christine assigned the Marsh book to October -- in lieu of the original "theatrical setting" theme -- because our main read that month (Lord Edgeware Dies) is all about the theatre, as are many of Marsh's books, too (she was a noted stage director first and a mystery author second, and it shows in her writing). Though, if we *were* to move the Marsh book to September, I know which one of her titles I'd be suggesting as a match for our main read. Which would still be doubling up on the "seaside" theme, however ...
Themis-Athena (Lioness at Large) wrote: "I suspect Christine assigned the Marsh book to October -- in lieu of the original "theatrical setting" theme -- because our main read that month (Lord Edgeware Dies) is all about the theatre, as are many of Marsh's books"You have given me far too much credit for cleverness, although I both appreciate the credit and I LOVE this connection.
You are more of a Marsh scholar than I am, so maybe you can list four or five of the best "theatrical" Marsh selections and we'll poll out of those!
The superstition idea is also a good one - there are at least 4 more Halloweens before we finish out this project, so I am going to keep that one in my back pocket for the future!
Christine PNW wrote: "You are more of a Marsh scholar than I am, so maybe you can list four or five of the best "theatrical" Marsh selections and we'll poll out of those!"I've created an "October Side Read" thread and posted my suggestions there: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Nominations should be of a book written and/or published between 1920 and 1950, with encouragement to nominate a fellow Detection Club member or a book that was first published by either of Mrs. Christie's publishers: The Bodley Head or Collins Crime.
Since The Mysterious Affair at Styles is both a country house mystery and a locked room mystery, those will be our September & October themes:
August: see open thread
September: locked room mystery
October: country house mystery
November: set in London
December: Christmas mystery
If you have suggestions for the 2021 themes, please drop them below. Here are some other possibilities:
series with more than 20 installments
elderly lady detectives
police inspectors
academic mysteries
reissued by the British Library in their BLCC series
mysteries with sidekicks
the other Queens (Sayers, Marsh, Allingham, Tey)
A note on sourcing: sometimes these books can be difficult to source, so it makes sense to check availability before proposing. We also have a number of international members, so a book that is only available as an ebook in the US may be difficult for them to locate. That shouldn't necessarily stop you from making the nomination, but if a large number of interested readers report that they can't access the book at a reasonable cost, it may need to be withdrawn.
A note on series: with very few exceptions, reading order in series published during the time frame is irrelevant, so don't feel constrained to pick the first book in the series. If you have gotten a recommendation for a specific book out of a long running series, toss it out there. Modern readers are accustomed to series where characters show a lot of growth with multi-book or series longs arcs, but that wasn't really how the golden age writers did things. Poirot and Marple barely change throughout the entire course of their series. Some books in a long running series are markedly better than others, so it makes sense to pick the books that have the best recommendations or that are appealing in some specific way.
We're running out of time to pick the August side-read, so I'm going to open a thread.