Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion

Most of the monthly book polls have lately been generating 300+ membership voters. We, the moderators, are thankful for the increase in participation. Unfortunately there has not been a corresponding increase in the number of members contributing to the discussion of the winning novel. How can we spur those who have voted for a novel to actually participate in the discussion of that novel?

This thread is to seek out member input and ideas.

Some have suggested allowing only people who commit to discussing a book to vote on the poll.

Some say putting a sanction on those who vote and don't discuss. I have no idea how that could be enforced.

Putting a disclaimer at the top of the poll not to vote unless you intend to discuss?

Run two polls. One for the popular vote and one for discussants? The discussant poll winner being the actual selection.

Having people who promise to discuss votes' count for, say, 5 votes, so they have the most influence in the polls?

The monthly book discussions are the lifeblood and purpose of the group. Your inputs and suggestions will shape those discussions. We look forward to hearing them here.

William wrote: "Most of the monthly book polls have lately been generating 300+ membership voters. We, the moderators, are thankful for the increase in participation. Unfortunately there has not been a correspondi..."

Interesting ideas.....one thing I want to clarify - if somebody votes in a poll, they only need to commit to read the book they voted for, not whichever book wins the poll, right?

I vote but rarely for the winning book. Sometimes the winner interests me but TBH recently I’ve had no interest in reading the winning book. I’ve found out about wonderful read through the polls and other threads but if participation is mandatory in the polled book discussion every month then this isn’t the book club for me.

I've seen other groups ask for members not to vote unless they plan on reading and/or contributing to the discussion. I think that's fair but it isn't enforceable. I vote if I absolutely would read the book I am voting for and it wins the poll. On occasion I have read the book and not made any comments if I didn't have anything to add that was interesting.

I don't have any solutions but I understand the frustrations of having a tiny number of readers participate. I have led group reads before and it is disappointing when there are few readers discussing the book.

I appreciate the initiative because I have not participated at times due to the low participation. I know I know that doesn't help! I will do better. Imo I think a disclaimer is sufficient or if possible removing the anonymity of the poll ...it may hold the members accountable who voted for the winning book to participate.

I have a question about the polls. How are the nominees chosen?

I don't think there's any way of enforcing participation in discussions, but it seems like most people are not responsive because they aren't interested in the book of the month. It may help to nominate more books they are interested in.

Speaking only for myself, I find the nominees and winners are overwhelmingly American. While they are great books no doubt, I am oversaturated with American fiction and politics and not always interested in picking up one more. (If this is a US-only book club, I apologise! I was under the impression that it is international.) Other members probably have their own reasons for being unenthusiastic about the books chosen. People are far more likely to engage in discussions about books they feel passionately about, than picking from a list of lukewarm options.

Is it possible to write an reminder to those who voted for the winning book to keep them motivated to participate? I don't read all threads but sometimes it seems to me that some people forget about it over time.

I don't know if that makes sense but if the second or third voted books could be included somehow in the following polls it could reach more people to join. Maybe it is frustrating for some people not voting for the winner book.

Nadine wrote: "William wrote: "Most of the monthly book polls have lately been generating 300+ membership voters. We, the moderators, are thankful for the increase in participation. Unfortunately there has not be..."

There are no "rules" at this point but it would make sense to only require those who voted for the winning book to be committed to participate in the discussion. One only need look over to the buddy reads thread to see that folks that have a vested interest in the book discussed can engage in lively give and take. We'd like to see some of that energy over in the monthly discussions. On the last poll 120 members voted for the winning book. If 15-20 of those promised to discuss it, I believe it would be a great improvement.

Here are some statistics from a couple discussions last year:

July winning book – My Sister the Serial Killer
97 members voted for the book – this book won 39.9 % of the votes
14 members contributed to the book discussion
4 out of the 14 discussion contributors voted for the book = 29%
10 out of the 14 discussion contributors did not vote for the book = 71%
4 out of the 97 voted for the book contributed to the discussion = 4%
93 out of 97 voted for the book but did not contribute to the discussion = 96%

June winning book – She Would Be King
84 members voted for the book – this book won 36.2% of the vote
10 members contributed to the book discussion
2 out of the 10 discussion contributors voted for the book = 20%
8 out of the 10 discussion contributors did not vote for the book = 80%
2 out of the 84 voted for the book contributed to the discussion = 2%
82 out of 84 voted for the book did not contribute to the discussion = 98%

Lakshmi wrote: "I have a question about the polls. How are the nominees chosen?

I don't think there's any way of enforcing participation in discussions, but it seems like most people are not responsive because th..."

There is no nominating process. I have chosen the five monthly book placed on the poll since the groups inception. There are only 2 rules. That the author be a person of color and the book 6 months past the publication date to give members a chance to acquire it from their local library. I would gladly give up this position if an efficient way could be devised to both nominate from the hundreds of eligible books and whittle to five to be posted on polls monthly. I do read the read and recommended thread and if members have a book would like to see on the poll that is the place to make your case.

I find your comment that the polls are "overwhelmingly American" a quite odd given that the winner of next months poll is British and only one author on the poll was "American". Exactly zero authors were American in the September and August polls.

Much sympathy to the moderators. It has to be hard to put in a lot of effort as a volunteer and not have people participate.

I'll note that there are a few reasons I might vote in a poll but then not participate in the discussion.

1. I'm more likely to read the winner if it's one I nominated or already had on my TBR list.

2. Between the monthly reads and Buddy Reads, I don't always have time to get the book from the library and participate in all discussions.

3. This group is only one of several source for my TBR list, and I "assign" myself a number of books to read at the beginning of each calendar year and sometimes just can't squeeze in a LFPC read in the month it is being discussed.

I think in the future, I'll just NOT participate in a poll if I don't have time to read the chosen book.

William,
Guilty as charged!
I have voted and then not participated in the discussion even when the book I voted for won.
Point taken and please accept my apologies.
Your work on behalf of this group is greatly appreciated.
Peace,
Robert

Hi I'm very new to this group, so I don't know how you operate. Some other groups I'm in send newsletters or messages to our GR inbox with links to discussion threads where to nominate or vote for future genres, themes, or books.

The follow-up process to remind us to vote is also sent as a message, and a final one comes once the books are chosen. It works fine for me, because I belong to several groups, and I nominate or vote for books I either want to read or have read and would like to discuss with others.

As I said, I'm new, so I don't know how you already notify people about voting, etc. Some of us need a bit of hand-holding (and reminders)!

This is a nomination thread from the All About Books group for their non-fiction read.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I don't know if that helps or makes things harder!

Frequently, the books selected are recent publications and still in hardcover. The book may or may not be available at a local library (if your local library is even open) and not all members are library patrons. I often read featured books months later when they come out in paperback or the Kindle price drops.

Nell wrote: "Frequently, the books selected are recent publications and still in hardcover. The book may or may not be available at a local library (if your local library is even open) and not all members are l..."

We realize that acquiring the titles can be difficult for some members, which is why we established the six months rule. Any more than that and the enthusiasm for a popular title would probably wane. But folks who don't live in large metro areas may not be able to get them from the library. But its impossible to predict paperback or kindle sale dates. I wonder if any of the other groups have established an electronic or physical book exchange? I'll investigate.

Hi all,
I've been super busy since the pandemic started and I haven't even read much, but I did want to come here and voice my support for whatever the mods and most-active members feel is best.

I try not to vote in months when I don't imagine I'll have time to read the book. I know I have broken my own "guidelines" more than once - the best intentions etc....

Those statistics are frustrating. Perhaps polls are just "too easy" - people click and then forget. I've seen other groups do it differently, but those systems look like insane amounts of work for moderators, and I wouldn't want to suggest more work for anyone

So I have no great ideas, but I wanted to voice my support for any changes that are made w/ the best interests of everyone (esp mods and very active members) in mind. Hopefully the pandemic will end and I will have a life again, but in the meantime you're all in my thoughts and please be safe and well. (Safe) hugs to everyone - Ella

Hi.
I have been in this group for a while but haven't only recently been involved in the discussion because of the pandemic. The books (Such A Fun Age and The Water Dancer) were books I already bought and wanted to discuss. I know the library has been closed in some places and I have bought too many books lately.
I do think if the book you vote for wins, you should read and discuss. Can we maybe select books that arent always new? Older books would be easier to acquire. I know I discussed doing a month of selections by a particular author (like Walter Mosley or Toni Morrison). Maybe titles by women authors primarily one month, Hispanic one month, etc...
I think one month of classic choices from a list of 100 books by authors of color list.
Just thoughts,
Sean G

I generally only vote for books I have access to by checking it out at the library. I do not go out and buy books because they won a poll, but I had no interest in reading it in the first place.

The discussions I’ve been involved in I thought were really engaging and had really good participation by 7 or 8 people. Are there discussions with less than that participating? Is there a goal number for how many members are discussing a book?

Oh also thank you to the moderators of this group. Your work really is appreciated even if that appreciation isn’t reflected in loads of folks discussing the book of the month.

Wanda wrote: "I generally only vote for books I have access to by checking it out at the library. I do not go out and buy books because they won a poll, but I had no interest in reading it in the first place.

..."

I'm not sure at this point what amount of contributors would be a "quorum". Hopefully by the time this thread peters out and all suggestions are examined (next month?) we'll have a plan or plans for members to consider.

Wanda wrote: "Oh also thank you to the moderators of this group. Your work really is appreciated even if that appreciation isn’t reflected in loads of folks discussing the book of the month."

Thanks Wanda!

Tricia wrote: "Hi.
I have been in this group for a while but haven't only recently been involved in the discussion because of the pandemic. The books (Such A Fun Age and The Water Dancer) were books I already bo..."

It has been awhile since I posted a "themed" poll. I used to do it frequently but I've such a backlog of bestsellers by authors of color now. A problem I didn't have not too long ago. Look for themes in the near future.

First, I want to say I think this is a wonderful group and to thank the moderators for all they do! I think it would be very difficult to limit voting, count votes differently, or in any way try to enforce those who vote participating in discussion and would be more likely to decrease participation overall. I assume most people vote with the intention of reading their choice but sometimes other things come up, all one’s book groups happen to be reading books of interest in a given month, the book looked interesting but once you start doesn’t grab you, etc. I know this has happened to me a time or two this year. Then too many people may reading the book and the discussion but feel shy or otherwise hesitate to join in. You probably know this, but I have seen this issue brought up and discussed in other groups on GR, so by no means foes it indicate anything wrong with the group, but only that voting is so much quicker than reading!

One change you might consider is allowing members to nominate some or all of the books in the poll. This is what is done in the Catching up on Classics group that I belong to: during a two week period, members may nominate or second a book to be included in the poll (with additional rules to ensure variety such as one nomination per author, the same book cannot be nominated two months in a row, etc.) and the top seven go to the poll for voting. I think this could be worth trying as then the books in the poll should reflect books that active posting members have expressed interest in. (Personally I do not have any complaint about the books in the poll and this group has been the push to read some excellent books that I might not yet have gotten to otherwise.)

I guess I'll chime in as I am someone who votes in the polls and reads the books but doesn't post. I am shy about posting things. I totally read the discussions and I read the books along with you all.

Same here I nominate, vote, read but don’t participate in discussions because I feel I am judgemental and spoil things for those who haven’t read the book.

I think a reminder to participate if you vote would help. I often use the books in the poll as a jumping off point and read them anyway. Thanks for your work in selecting them!
I will try to participate more in discussion. For me I prefer to read the whole thing then discuss. I loved the Praise Song for the Butterflies option to do that!

agreed with Wanda in thanking the moderators. I often end up getting a book after the discussion (library wait lists), but am always grateful for the suggestions/polls and can follow up after I've finished with the archived discussions. I don't think anything's broken that needs fixing. Are there things we can as participants to support the moderators?

Janel wrote: "For me I prefer to read the whole thing then discuss. I loved the Praise Song for the Butterflies option to do that!..."

This is my feeling too, for shorter novels.

Although I do post in book discussions, I completely understand and support people who'd rather read the thread and not post. I think it could be useful for the moderator to start the discussion with a 'who's here?' just to know how many eyes are present, with no pressure to post again. The moderator's first post could highlight that all participants are welcome whether they post or not. If it turns out that the thread has no posting participants, maybe that would encourage others to jump in?

That's a great suggestion, Nadine. thanks for thinking of it. Many of us often follow along without posting for all sorts of reasons, but are still connected.

Janet wrote: "That's a great suggestion, Nadine. thanks for thinking of it. Many of us often follow along without posting for all sorts of reasons, but are still connected."

Agreed! I think that’s a great idea! =]

i have been more involved in the past because i live in a country where, because of the pandemic, i do not have access to new books (and i can't stand to read online). So my ask would be that there might be a larger representation of older books among the selections?
i know that when i lived in the States there was always a longer wait at the library for new books as well.
Is limited access to newly published books a problem for anyone else?

I love the idea of doing a roll call, just chiming in to say you've read the book, even if you don't have much to say in a comment.

Typically each month a moderator starts with a question of where everyone is in the discussion . Example, for this month:

“First day of September and we begin the discussion for CHILDREN OF THE LAND. Has anyone started it? Read it? Requested it from the library? Not your cup of tea?”

Janet wrote: "agreed with Wanda in thanking the moderators. I often end up getting a book after the discussion (library wait lists), but am always grateful for the suggestions/polls and can follow up after I've ..."

Thanks Janet. I've noticed that you chime in on the book discussions I assume your interested in. I think that other would more often if they felt more at ease. The discussions are judgement free and and the moderators strive to keep them that way. Personal attacks are not allowed. Besides occasional comments, I'd like to see more participants step up as discussion leaders. Especially for the more woman-centric novels. This is a majority female group and many poll winners are unsurprisingly female authors. A woman at the head of the discussion will offer perspectives that I might miss or bungle.

Loving all the suggestions. At some point next month I'll try to whittle them into bullet points to put on a poll and voted on, confer with the other moderators, and set policy from there.

I have been in the group for a very long time, however, I do not join the discussions. I always vote on the polls an usually read the selected book. I religiously follow the discussions monthly. Sorry I don't participate but wanted it known that I Love this group and the Mods.

I lurk here because it is a fantastic source for new books by POC that I want to read someday. I've never been pulled further in because I didn't understand how books were chosen for the polls and was sad that there was no nominating process/discussion for what to include in the poll.

I think if you have more than a half-dozen active discussion participants you are doing quite well! But I understand the discrepancy between voters and participants is discouraging. As many have said, it is very easy (and fun!) to vote in a poll. So if you want to close the gap, don't send poll announcements to the entire membership group. Only announce polls within the group. Yes, you will have far fewer votes in the polls (30ish instead of 90ish), but the people that vote will be the people that are actively reading group posts, if not also participating in discussions. With fewer fly-by voters influencing the choices, you might have selections that more of the active members are really interested in reading.

If the above suggestion feels too undemocratic, then messaging all those that voted for the winning book would probably boost participation a little. (Even in closed polls there are ways to see who voted for each book -- the # of votes to the right of a book is a link: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/answer...)

I thoroughly enjoy this group and the discussions when I can participate. Often, my timing is off, for example my hold on Children of the Land has just come through. I enjoy the discussion format when I can start on time, but it doesn't work as well if I've already read the book because I don't want to discuss the whole book when others haven't finished. I have one suggestion for this issue. One group I am in has two threads for every book. One is labeled "Spoilers" and the other is "No Spoilers". If this group did this members that had read the whole book could start discussing right away in the Spoilers thread and others could go to the scheduled discussion thread - maybe called "Scheduled Spoilers" - until they completed the book. Whatever is decided, I will be here when I can.

Liz M wrote: " So if you want to close the gap, don't send poll announcements to the entire membership group. Only announce polls within the group. Yes, you will have far fewer votes in the polls (30ish instead of 90ish), but the people that vote will be the people that are actively reading group posts, if not also participating in discussions. ..."

I think this is a fantastic idea. Thanks!

Karen Michele wrote: "I thoroughly enjoy this group and the discussions when I can participate. Often, my timing is off, for example my hold on Children of the Land has just come through. I enjoy the discussion format w..."

Good idea. I often have this problem too. As a matter of fact my library gave me Girl Woman Other much sooner than expected and I'm just renewing it so I can start it when the discussion starts. Otherwise I never know when things happen in a book and have to wait until the disscussion is spoiler free to make comments.

William wrote: "Nell wrote: "Frequently, the books selected are recent publications and still in hardcover. The book may or may not be available at a local library (if your local library is even open) and not all ..."

I am guilty of voting for books and not joining the discussion. A lot of times the books included in the poll that I find interesting are books that I have already read. If I loved the book I am hoping that others will enjoy it too.

I usually have my reading pretty planned out and filled for the most part with ARCs and do not have room to squeeze in much more particularly during the school year. In one of my other groups we vote a few months ahead (October was voted end of July) so it's easier for me to include those books in my plan.

I understand the logic behind choosing books that are 6 months past their publication date but perhaps include one newer release in the selection and possibly also one title nominated by the group.

Michelle wrote: "William wrote: "Nell wrote: "Frequently, the books selected are recent publications and still in hardcover. The book may or may not be available at a local library (if your local library is even op..."

The idea of voting for a book several months ahead was brought up previously when we considered changes to the group. I think now it should be seriously considered.

Some great ideas from everyone!

Karen Michele wrote: "One group I am in has two threads for every book. One is labeled "Spoilers" and the other is "No Spoilers". If this group did this members that had read the whole book could start discussing right away in the Spoilers thread and others could go to the scheduled discussion thread -.."

I've had problems with having a second thread for spoilers. It starts off fine, but the definition of 'spoiler' is a moving wall as we progress through the book, and gradually both threads turn into two separate discussions in tandem. Maybe there could be one thread, but people use the 'spoiler' tag to hide the part of their post that's a spoiler? Often the context of the post will tell you if it's a spoiler for you. For example: "In Chapter 5 when Susan tells John...(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] The code for making a spoiler is shown in the 'some html is ok' link above the comment box - it's very short and easy.

Nadine wrote: "Karen Michele wrote: "One group I am in has two threads for every book. One is labeled "Spoilers" and the other is "No Spoilers". If this group did this members that had read the whole book could s..."

It is, but spoiler tags take away from a straightforward discussion. I’m a fan of the two thread approach, but then I also really enjoy that this group uses a schedule and I have the experience of reading and experiencing the book with fellow group members. Realistically, I participate in maybe two group discussions a year, so my opinion likely should be filed under, thank you, next.

I tend to read the books and then feel too shy to participate in the discussion (or add more than one comment) because I don't feel that I have anything intelligent to say. Nobody's fault but mine - you all seem like very nice people!

Franklinbadger, I hope going forward that you'll comment if you'd like to. What I most appreciate about the group is all our different ways of seeing books - points we agree on, those we don't. It makes reading so much more interesting. I think we all have something to say - even *just* agreeing, or asking.. Anyway. For what that's worth. thanks

William wrote: "Most of the monthly book polls have lately been generating 300+ membership voters. We, the moderators, are thankful for the increase in participation. Unfortunately there has not been a correspondi..."

I like the idea of running two polls. I usually vote and then read the book I liked, which is never the book that's selected. I don't mind if my choice is not selected because I always appreciate the list of books and the opportunity to anticipate the vote and winning book.

How about doing a poll on books that make a list of Must read classics by authors of color.

https://bookriot.com/100-must-read-cl...

Tricia wrote: "How about doing a poll on books that make a list of Must read classics by authors of color.

https://bookriot.com/100-must-read-cl..."

I like Tricia's idea of having other sorts of polls in addition to book nominations. Seems like there are a lot of people in the group who want to express an opinion about a book through voting, but their only way to do it is to vote on the book discussion polls. Other kinds of polls could answer that need. Or If a poll would be too unwieldy, we could do it by creating GR lists, voting on them, and then announcing the results in the group.

I have to agree with comment #3. The books I tend to vote for are not the winning book for discussions. Then, here and there, there may be a book I chosen in the voting poll...started reading the book and wished I never picked it. Yet, I try to participate in the discussion anyhow.

Other times, I may read what everyone else chosen and wonder why the responses are so slim. I know a couple years ago, it was fascinating with the responses and seeing it from another point of view. This past year, it really has been low.

I know in the earlier years, I wondered how the selections were picked. I believe the moderators chose titles for us to vote, can the participants have a say so here and there..this might help?