Reading the Classics discussion

We are at week 3 of our long read of An American Tragedy. This week we are reading the first 11 chapters in Part 2.

I've been a bit slow to post because I am only now catching up with the posted reading schedule. As I was reading about Dreiser in preparation for reading this novel, I noted that he is generally classified within the literary movement of naturalism; and being a fan of Emile Zola, I was looking forward to this read. Zola looked on his characters as subjects of a "scientific"experiment to see how their family of origin and the environment of their upbringing determined the course of their lives. As I read part 1 of An American Tragedy, I wasn't really seeing a great deal of the influence of naturalism. We can see a bit of the origin of Clyde's indecisiveness in his relationship with his parents. But I think Part 2 gives a much stronger idea of Dreiser's view of Clyde. At the very end of chapter 3 he makes this statement, which explains Clyde's character and probably foreshadows where this novel is headed: "Clyde had a soul that was not destined to grow up. He lacked decidedly that mental clarity and inner directing application that it so many permits them to sort out from the facts and avenues of life the particular thing or things that make for their direct advancement." Dreiser here defines the character flaw that sends Clyde's life on the path of classical tragedy.

I was just about to type in that exact quote. Bk 2 ch 3 “...Clyde had a soul that was not destined to grow up. ...” Agree or disagree?

I would have to answer that question two ways. Personally, I do not believe that any person can be "not destined" to grow, mature and change. In life, we have a range of options that allow our personal decision making to alter our life's direction.

But that's not how the naturalists thought about the characters of their novels. They believed that the character traits and dispositions inherited from family of origin and shaped in childhood determined what became of that person. I think Dreiser is being very precise in referring to Clyde being "not destined" to grow up. He will never become a person capable of great foresight, or capable of taking decisive and resolute action. The course of his life is already determined. He will not "grow up" either in the sense of maturing, or in the sense of growing older. I think Dreiser is foreshadowing a short life for our hero Clyde!

I also find it curious that Dreiser writes of Clyde's soul. Dresser was born into a Catholic family; but he rejected religion, becoming an atheist.

I found it curious as well. I wonder whether it was more of a mockery of his parents' lifestyle?

Erika wrote: "I found it curious as well. I wonder whether it was more of a mockery of his parents' lifestyle?"

That was my first reaction as well. But as I reflect on the way Dreiser treats Asa elsewhere, it strikes me that he treats Asa as being a bit silly, but largely inconsequential. In Part 2 Chapter 4, when Samuel asks Clyde about Asa, Clyde is not so much critical of the fact that his father is involved in "religious work" as he is"that the form of religious work his father essayed was of all forms the poorest and most inconsequential socially."

In fact, a couple pages earlier, we learn that Samuel is sympathetic toward Asa, and believes he was unfairly treated by their father Joseph.
I guess I would contrast Dreiser's treatment of his parents' religion (somewhat ridiculous, but not really having much impact on anyone else) with Sinclair Lewis' Elmer Gantry, published the year after An American Tragedy. Lewis is most certainly satirizing fundamentalist religion and the use of religion to manipulate people. I don't see that in An American Tragedy. Asa's negative impact on Clyde's character seems to me to be more about never giving Clyde the reason or opportunity to take responsibility for himself.

It's interesting to me how rapidly Clyde's view of himself changes once he moves to Lycurgus. When the new people that he meets treat him with respect due to his family he becomes condescending almost immediately.

I found myself wanting to shake him when he was judging people at the church dance - especially Mr. & Mrs. Wilson. He has quickly forgotten where he came from.

Part 2 seems to be all about the differences between appearance and reality. We are constantly reminded of Clyde's attractive appearance; Gilbert is offended because Clyde looks like him; the appearance of Clyde working in the shrinking department in his undershirt and trousers that motivates Samuel Griffiths to direct Gilbert to find him a position in the firm where "he won't look like that."

Alan wrote: "Erika wrote: "I found it curious as well. I wonder whether it was more of a mockery of his parents' lifestyle?"

That was my first reaction as well. But as I reflect on the way Dreiser treats Asa e..."

The impression I get regarding the shame Clyde feels toward his father is that Asa just isn't all that good at what he's chosen to do. He doesn't have a following (he appears to minister to passers-by only). He (and therefore his family) relies on alms. He's SO bad at it that he has to supplement income sometimes selling vacuum cleaners.

Asa seems adrift, without purpose. This may at least partly reflect Dreiser's views on religion themselves: we know he was an atheist, so in Asa he may be reflecting his view that religion itself is without substance or purpose.

Erika wrote: "It's interesting to me how rapidly Clyde's view of himself changes once he moves to Lycurgus. When the new people that he meets treat him with respect due to his family he becomes condescending alm..."

Clyde's view of 'where he came from' seems to be changing in Lycurgus. He views Samuel as his rightful origin mpw (as opposed to Asa), tho he appears to understand it isn't up to him whether or not he realizes his goal of being accepted fully as a 'Lycurgus Griffiths'.

His self-view is a form of hypocrisy - I am agreeing with you - and for me, nowhere is this more evident than in his newly forming friendship with Dillon. Clyde recognizes that Dillon hopes to improve his position in Lycurgus by attaching himself to Clyde, and he privately recoils at such an outward display of social ambition... yet this is exactly the same sort of behavior Clyde is engaged in with the entire Griffiths family. It is, in fact, why Clyde came to Lycurgus in the first place.

Everyone is concerned with appearances above all else. Gilbert sees Clyde as a usurper, even tho Clyde represents no threat to his position in the town, the firm, the family or with his father. Dillon is anxious to be friendly with Clyde, to 'connect himself' with him because it will create a beneficial appearance for him. Rita has much the same designs. Clyde is concerned about the appearance a friendship with Dillon or a relationship with Rita might create, and how that might damage what he sees as a certain upward mobility in Lycurgus. Samuel is concerned that his nephew, Gilbert's cousin, has to work in shirtsleeves in the sweatshop of the shrinking room, and what that 'looks like'. Clyde interprets his new position and substantial raise as the appearance that Samuel and Gilbert 'want to do so much for him', and sees this as a personal regard, when in reality Gilbert is grudgingly carrying out his father's instructions, and Samuel simply wants Clyde to 'look more like a Griffiths'.

So much self-deception! Clyde may well be headed for better days in Lycurgus - Samuel certainly seems determined to give him every chance - but he seems quite preoccupied with the fact he's about to be put in charge of a lot of young women. That preoccupation takes the form of foreswearing to avoid the appearance (there's that word again) of any impropriety, but it's something he thinks about. We all know something about the direction of the novel: is that the direction this is to take? Is there an indiscretion in Charlie's near future which threatens to unravel whatever gains he's made? Is there some innate flaw in Clyde's character? Or is all of this some kind of manifest destiny?

I don't know the answers. These are just the questions which come to mind by the conclusion of B2C11.