Support for Indie Authors discussion

I must admit I am still surprise by what happened.
I went to a bookstore in my city and asked them if they keep books from independent authors. As they yes, we began to discuss how it worked and what was needed from me. When finally I went over to sign a contract (to let some copy of my books to be sold with a percentage for the book store), the person told me they couldn’t take my books as Amazon was my publisher, and it is their main competitor.
I am using the KDP program of Amazon to use as platform for my eBook and my paper book. As I am in Canada, the ISBN is free and can be obtain from Library and Archives Canada. So, for what I understood thus far, KDP is not a publisher, just a platform that I use for my books. But I can bee mistaken…
And so, I am wondering, what do you think? What about you? Did it happen to one of you authors? Is KDP a publisher? I think it might something important to know, be it Amazon is a publisher or that using KDP service can be in some case a hindrance.

Though I am not sure, Amazon is a distributer (so it includes KDP too) which during the pandemic especially caused local bookstores' sales to drop drastically to a point that most of them had to close down as they could not compete with Amazon. This surely creates a hostility towards Amazon and Jeff Bezos, so that may be why you were turned down.

Bookstores and Amazon operate on different models.
Bookstores buy in bulk to pre-stock (they need to have the books on a shelf to sell them).
Amazon only prints books published via KDP as they're ordered.
Print-on-demand has much lower costs (it pretty much eliminates storage), which is one of the reasons bookstores may have a grudge against Amazon, for eliminating some of the costs and thus being able to sell for lower prices + you get it delivered to your bookstep so no need to travel and risk being infected. And print-on-demand is not suited for larger batches, so it may be impossible for KDP-published books to be printed in a batch of size interesting enough for a bookstore.

On the other hand, if you'd hand them over a stack of books to sell, I don't think they'd have a reason to care where they come from... but I don't know much about print sales and bookstores so it may need someone more experienced.

Tomas wrote: "Bookstores and Amazon operate on different models.
Bookstores buy in bulk to pre-stock (they need to have the books on a shelf to sell them).
Amazon only prints books published via KDP as they're o..."

Well, for the print-on-demand, yes, it's limited but, as an author you can order copies and do the distribution yourself. This is the way I took. But I didnt' thought about the competition between Amazon and local bookstores... Which is certainly something I will take into account now.

Now I've never tried to contract with a book store but in my details I list my tax title name as the publisher (A. Nation Books). I don't know if this helps you. If not you'll have to buy your own ISBN.

Emmanuelle wrote: "I must admit I am still surprise by what happened.
I went to a bookstore in my city and asked them if they keep books from independent authors. As they yes, we began to discuss how it worked and w..."
I am also a Canadian author and obtained my ISBN through Library and Archives Canada. However, I noticed you specified "Library and Archives Canada" as your publisher which I don't think is correct. I used my full legal name as the publisher in their database.

I have had my books sold through a few book stores in Canada, but it's always on a consignment basis. If they sell one of my books (usually for $15.99, which is higher than the Amazon price), they write me a cheque for $12. Some people prefer to buy in a book store, rather than online, so I like to give them that option. They usually only stock one or two copies on their shelves and I check in with them every few months. In reality, I only sell a few copies through book stores during a typical year.

Emmanuelle wrote: "I must admit I am still surprise by what happened.
I went to a bookstore in my city and asked them if they keep books from independent authors. As they yes, we began to discuss how it worked and w..."

If you use their numbers, they are your publisher. You need to use your own ISBN and put your publishing stamp on it. (mine is BAM publishing) Many people do not understand that one point. If you use ISBN or ASIN from any company, they become your publisher. I had to take back my books from the vanity publishing houses and change it to my name so that they couldn't claim it. Since your ISBNs are free, get them, use them, and sell your books wherever you want. Just remember, you need an ISBN for each format of our book, so if you are doing hardcover, paperback, audio, e-book you need an ISBN for each. In the ebook, if you are doing MOBI and e-pub, you need one for each format. I'll do the Amazon MOBI through Amazon but will do the epub with an ISBN. My printed books and audio are also ISBNs.

Too many people cut off their access to other sources of income by not using their own ISBNs for their books. If you can get all the details right, Ingram, or whatever POD company you use in Canada, are the best POD companies to use with good quality of products. You can also order books at cost to sell on your own unlike Amazon who charges you full price (at least here in the US) for books instead of a discounted price. For them it's all about the profit for them, not you, the author who keeps them in business.

E.A. wrote: "Emmanuelle wrote: "I must admit I am still surprise by what happened.
I went to a bookstore in my city and asked them if they keep books from independent authors. As they yes, we began to discuss ..."
Thanks for the details about Library and Archives Canada. For the bookstore, it was going to be on consignement basis, up until I told them I was using Amazon.

@B.A.: Yes, I have created one ISBN for my ebook and one for my paperback. And this was why I thought I could do what I wanted with my copies. I'll look into Ingram though, as I don't know what it is. thanks!

Ingram-spark is one of the biggest printers in North America. They do POD. Draft2Digital does to but they are still in Beta. Ingram has a huge website but you need to be very exact in what they require for printing to get the best book. If you are going to sell on consignment, that is probably going to be one of your cheaper ways to go. Also, they are offering free book titles for NaNoWriMo.

B.A. wrote: "Ingram-spark is one of the biggest printers in North America. They do POD. Draft2Digital does to but they are still in Beta. Ingram has a huge website but you need to be very exact in what they req..."

Thanks a lot for those information, it's very appreciated.

Lulu is an alternative to KDP you might consider using.

Tomas wrote: "Bookstores and Amazon operate on different models.
Bookstores buy in bulk to pre-stock (they need to have the books on a shelf to sell them).
Amazon only prints books published via KDP as they're o..."

Dion wrote: "Though I am not sure, Amazon is a distributer (so it includes KDP too) which during the pandemic especially caused local bookstores' sales to drop drastically to a point that most of them had to cl..."

My local bookstore went out of business lately. When I asked the owner why (she was also selling my books) she said people would come into her store, ask the price for a book, then look it up on Amazon and order it from their phones.

E.A. wrote: "Emmanuelle wrote: "I must admit I am still surprise by what happened.
I went to a bookstore in my city and asked them if they keep books from independent authors. As they yes, we began to discuss ..."

That's right E.A., but people are lured by "Free" ISBNs not understanding that whoever bought the #s is the publisher. The #s sold by IngramSpark (at $85) are okay. The author is shown as the publisher.
I recall when a few authors and I went to sign books at B&N who didn't want us to take in our books and instead ordered them. They refused to order two authors' books because they didn't own their imprints.

Wanjiru wrote: "E.A. wrote: "Emmanuelle wrote: "I must admit I am still surprise by what happened.
I went to a bookstore in my city and asked them if they keep books from independent authors. As they yes, we bega..."

But in Canada, the ISBN is offered by Library and Archives Canada, which is part of the government. And to obtain it you have to give your name and a list of information. And my problem was not being able to tell if Amazon, by being my plateform and allowing me to publish is to be considered a publisher or not.

@Angela: thanks! I used Lulu for a little while but I had trouble with the system and a friend told me about the Kindle program.

ISBNs are simply unique identifiers that operate worldwide. They have to be bought in a controlled manner so that no two books have the same ISBN. In the UK it is Neilsens who deal with this. And yes, you do need to register your ISBNs AND your individual books. In the UK, we also have to submit 5 copies of our book to the British Library to be stored as a registered work of literature. But this is not a bad thing. It secures the uniqueness and the copyright and it means that any library can request copies of your book because it is formally listed.

You don't have to have a publisher. If oyu are self publishing you simply use your own name. I then upload to Amazon using my own ISBNs and they are nothing more than a distribution system that allows me to have books Printed on Demand (POD). And, let's face it, if your book is NOT on Amazon, you are cutting out a massive market.

With KDP, I use my own ISBN this way I can sell my books outside of Amazon. If it’s an ebook try putting it on a landing page, like SamCart.org and selling it from there instead of only Amazon. Just make sure that book isn’t exclusive for Amazon.

Colin wrote: "ISBNs are simply unique identifiers that operate worldwide. They have to be bought in a controlled manner so that no two books have the same ISBN. In the UK it is Neilsens who deal with this. And y..."
That confirms what I thought about what KDP/Amazon is but I was a bit confused when the bookstore told me they were my publisher. But I didn't thought about the whole Covid context and the impact it had on bookstore so that I might have been a big factor against me, or at least the origin of the book.

@Lyvita: thanks for the suggestion! I'll look into SamCart.org, never heard about it. I certainly learned a lot in this thread!

Lyvita wrote: "With KDP, I use my own ISBN this way I can sell my books outside of Amazon. If it’s an ebook try putting it on a landing page, like SamCart.org and selling it from there instead of only Amazon. Jus..."

Hi Lyvita,
Never heard of SamCart.org . How do they work?

Emmanuelle wrote: "Wanjiru wrote: "E.A. wrote: "Emmanuelle wrote: "I must admit I am still surprise by what happened.
I went to a bookstore in my city and asked them if they keep books from independent authors. As t..."

If you use the Amazon numbers instead of the ISBN, they become the publisher. It's that simple. Get the ISBN from your government and use them. Amazon can but your selling platform and for POD, but don't make them your publisher. Same with all other platforms. Provide your own ISBN and inprint (MIne's BAM Publishing) That means you can sell your book wherever you want.

Somethin similare happened to me a friend in Calif. told me a friend of hers tried to get my book in a library, When I did paperword at CS they said booksellers and Libraries would be able to get the book. When it moved to kindle and amazon though it sells the book and ordering is ieasy for a buyer, libraries don't or can't buy from them .I was also under the understanding that IS was doing the paperback and that was wrong for two years IS has no connection to the book. I was about to have then handle the book and they said I have to take it a way from Kindle. I don't know itf that is a good idea.

Just to refresh everyone's memory, Amazon still doesn't sell or have any arrangement with Libraries or bookstores. If you want your book in either place, you need an ISBN for that book. I do use the Amazon numbers for my books on there other than the hardcover since it's easier and keeps things simple. But I do have ISBNs for all my books as I sell through Kobo, B&N, Google books, and other vendors. Also a reminder, if you have a book in Kindle Unlimited, you can't not sell that E-BOOK elsewhere. It is only for e-books. You can sell the paperbacks on other sites.

You were unlucky in the store manager. I haven't had that reaction from Canadian bookstores with my books printed by Amazon.
Amazon is quite clear that they are not publishing your book. They just print it, put in on their site. Amazon does publish books, make films etc but that's a separate thing.

If you are not using your own ISBN, most stores will not take the book. The ASIN that Amazon gives the book is a deal breaker for most stores. Why should they carry the book of a company who wants them out of business?

If it is printed through KDP, a long as you have your own ISBN, there shouldn't be a problem. You've paid for the book and are selling it on consignment there.

In Canada you can get your own ISBN free, so I did so, thankfully.

I ordered fifty copies of my book from Amazon (with shipping, it came to about $4.00 a book), and I'm personally selling them for $15. Unfortunately all the local bookstores have closed down, so I'm struggling to find any business to offer consignments.

With so many people reading on devices, print is a hard sell. My sales for paperbacks is 10% of my total on Amazon. I published all my titles in paperback and Kindle, and opted to go with Kindle Unlimited. The 90% of my remaining sales is split, on average, between Kindle copies and Kindle Unlimited. My local indy bookstore has been happy to stock my paperbacks on consignment, support book signings, etc., but the numbers are small. That's my 2 cents. :)

Peter wrote: "..."

Hi Peter, do you find Amazon advertising works? How do you get people interested in your book? My book is now in Kindle Unlimited; where do we see if we have sales from that? I assume it is in a different spot than our regular sales reports.

There’s another problem with KDP that I’ve not seen mentioned, which is the way they scam the author into approving one cover picture, and then produce a butchered version of the approved image when the book is printed.

I have 29 titles on Kindle, but never produced a paper version of them. Recently, though, I decided to add a softcover option to all titles, which was also a good excuse to do a general clean-up edit.

When I finished the first one, I ordered an author’s copy, and went on with the work. And when it came, I took a deep breath and opened the package, realizing that holding your own work in your hands is a different, and more emotional act than seeing it on the screen.

But then, I saw the cover, and that happiness drained away. It was far darker than was the picture I uploaded and approved, and the contrast was significantly reduced. And though I’d not noticed it, because my color vision is a bit off, the colors were shifted in hue.

Deciding that I could compensate by adjusting color and contrast, I made the image I uploaded overly bright, maximized the contrast, ordered a second copy, and continued the project. That was a mistake.

The second copy arrived and though it wasn’t what I hoped for, it was acceptable. So, after adjusting the other 28 cover images, I began uploading, approving, and ordering.

Each time, I used the template that Amazon supplied, to show placement of spine-text, cover size, etc. And for each, I checked the preview/approval page. The cover image matched that which I’d uploaded, and when no errors were reported, I approved the book for printing and ordered a copy.

Silly me. I expected Amazon to produce a cover that looked like the image I’d approved. I expected buyers to receive a book that looked like the image Amazon showed them. But in a word, those covers sucked. Lifeless, dull, drab… Those all applied. Colors were muted, and shifted significantly in tone.

I contacted KDP help, and was told that it was my fault, because I’d uploaded RGB images, but should have sent CMYK. When I mentioned that image files indicate which color identification table they use, and asked why the approval page specifically said that there were no problems, and their template made no mention of a required format, their help desk representative had no answer, other than that had I sent the cover images in the proper format there would have been no problem.

Her answer didn’t satisfy, because all but the cheapest printers do an automatic conversion from either RGB or CMYK to that printer’s method of producing colors. But she’d said that was the problem, so, after spending well over $100 for the books, I converted all covers, uploaded, ordered a replacement of the worst, and, the four final covers I’d not yet seen.

As I’m sure you’ve guessed, the only changes to the existing covers were where I had made some changes to brighten the image. Other than that, there was not the slightest difference between covers produced from RGB and the CMYK files. So, the Amazon help desk lied, and I spent money based on that lie, for no useful purpose.

I’ve contacted Amazon, trying to get them to address the problem, given that they are shipping books to our customers with a cover very unlike the one we might have paid significant money to have created. They don’t care. Yes, if I jump through a series of hoops, and supply data they already have, they might refund the money I paid for the poor covers I bought. But they won’t address, or acknowledge the actual problem. And were someone to purchase a softcover of one of my books, they’d get a book with that same crap cover.

Below this text, are two of the covers, with my uploaded cover image shown on their approval screen, and the delivered book leaning against the monitor’s screen for comparison. And while you might assume that the difference between room light and the screen backlighting is the reason for the difference, it's not. What you see is what it is. Note the huge difference in the water’s color on the cover of Necessity. Aside from the fact that the approved image is tropic blue and the produced book is North-Atlantic drab, the screen image had to be brightened to where the boat seems to be in bright sunlight, in a storm—which makes no sense—to get even as much brightness as the cover shows. Also, note that the paper quality is so poor that the cover of a book that’s not been read has the top right corner curling.

Note too, that, As Falls an Angel, has had the image colors shifted, so that white lettering on the original are printed as yellow on the cover. Amazon called that a slight change.

There is no excuse for this. Plain and simple, it’s incompetence on Amazon’s part. Obviously, they have no functioning quality assurance department, and those who run the KDP program—who must be aware of the problem—don’t care.

Can we blame limitations in the process? Absolutely not. Today, I received a Photo-on-canvas print. And unlike Amazon’s poor effort, the portrait I got matches the picture uploaded.

Making things worse, Amazon has said nothing about addressing the problem. So… Jeff Bezos has the money to fly into space, financed, in part, by money saved by not taking the time to create a quality product. And that stinks.

@Jay: My KDP proof copies looked horrible when I got them. The cover was fine, but the chapters started at the bottom of previous pages, leaving huge gaps between sections, and headers placed on separate pages. Luckily when I contacted KDP, they sent me replacement proofs at no cost, and all subsequent copies have looked good.

If you want really nice covers that look like what you approved, you need to go through Ingram Spark. Their guidelines are quite specific. If you ask, they will tell you what to use for the color ie CMYK or RGB. I can't remember which is it, but they will tell you what you need to get the best colors on the books, I've not been happy with KDP print at all. They changed the formatting and then the covers were horrid. Like Jay, mine were overly dark and you couldn't really see the image.
I will have mine printed through Ingram or Draft2Digital before I use KDP again.

Julia wrote: "Peter wrote: "..."

Hi Peter, do you find Amazon advertising works? How do you get people interested in your book? My book is now in Kindle Unlimited; where do we see if we have sales from that? I ..."

Hi Julia! You don't get sales from KU, you get paid for page reads which you can see on your KDP dashboard :)

@Eldon: Thank you!

Jay wrote: "There’s another problem with KDP that I’ve not seen mentioned, which is the way they scam the author into approving one cover picture, and then produce a butchered version of the approved image whe..."

People don't realize that what they see on the screen is NOT what is being printed. Make sure that you prepare your cover using CMYK , and generate the cover PDF as PDF/X, which is the format used by graphic designers, because it does not cause any distortion or degradation, and includes both the fonts and the color profiles. Alternatively, you can use PDF/VT, though this is more used by business that use templates.

The "normal" PDF is PDF/A, which does not have those characteristics.

Initially, when I posted up my own book cover, it was in CMYK, but it showed up on Goodreads and other sites as a photo negative. I had to make them RGB to correct it, and get Goodreads help on fixing it.