Reading the Detectives discussion

We are almost at the end of the Poirot buddy reads! First published in 1972, this novel sees mystery writer Ariadne Oliver calling on Poirot to solve a long-closed case. No spoilers in this thread, please.

Another what we call now a cold case. As usual, clues were left along the way and it was good to have both Hercule and Ariadne back together again. A good fun read.

Yes, I agree with Jill, another fun mystery with Hercules and Ariadne. I find the two of them entertaining, and this one was rather touching, as they are both aging, and revisiting a cold case. Fitting for the season, I thought, with many older characters discussing their memories from years ago. Interesting what people remember, the impressions they form.

Just a reminder to all our Agatha Christie fans that the long series of buddy reads will finish in January with the last Poirot book, Curtain. Thank you very much to Jessica for organising this epic series!

But it's a beginning as well as an end, because in January we will also start our Assorted Christies challenge. This will feature 12 Christie books which are standalones or feature lesser-known detectives, starting with Why Didn't They Ask Evans?

Judy wrote: "Just a reminder to all our Agatha Christie fans that the long series of buddy reads will finish in January with the last Poirot book, Curtain. Thank you very much to Jessica for organi..."

Thanks for the reminder, Judy - I’m really looking forward to next year’s Christie assortment, a good chance to look outside of my old favorites about Poirot and Miss Marple.

Yes! oh I wish I was an elephant to be able to remember to start discussions on time....

No worries, Jessica :)

😂

I am brand new to this group. May I join your discussion? I will read the book, of course.

ChrisGA wrote: "I am brand new to this group. May I join your discussion? I will read the book, of course."

Chris, I’m guessing you’re in the states as I am? Our moderators are in Europe, so may not see your question until tomorrow - I’m sure they’d be fine with you reading the book and joining the discussion.

Thanks, As you suspected, I live in Georgia, USA.

Like Chris from Georgia, I have just seen this Buddy Read, and should like to join. I am reading Agatha Christie's later novels for something I am writing, and have enjoyed seeing the comments above. I love seeing a different dimension to Ariande Oliver- whom I find irritating - and people's real appreciation of this character. I hope I may belatedly join too.

Great that you both want to join in, Chris and Robin. All group members are very welcome to join in with all our discussions. :)

Of course Chris please do! The more the merrier :-)

Such fun that Ariadne is returning so often towards the end of the series, like Agatha is in direct communication with Poirot in the books working towards closure. (That personal observation is based on the previous book, this one is downloading right now!)

Thank you, Judy and Jessica. I like your observation about Agatha, Poirot and Ariadne. I'm part way through Elephants Can Remember and am more sympathetic to the signs of ageing in the novel than I have been in the past because of comments such as yours. Of course, my own ageing might also have an impact ...!

I have started this and finding it a bit all over the map-for example it's hard to figure out who all the people Ariadne talks to are. I would agree with Robin, that I generally find Ariadne Oliver irritating, and as it seems a fairly clear "self-portrait" over-all, it seems a very self-deprecating one!

Frances wrote: "I have started this and finding it a bit all over the map-for example it's hard to figure out who all the people Ariadne talks to are. I would agree with Robin, that I generally find Ariadne Oliver..."

Frances, I think that Agatha Christie was extremely shy at times - I pick that up from the memoir I've just read , Come, Tell Me how You live? So, her attitude to the book meeting could be entirely based on experience. I worry about such a talented woman, with such a huge body of work to her credit, being so self deprecating too. She was creatively and financially successful, also made a happy second marriage and had a loving dog - what more could anyone want to feel good about oneself?

PS I've nearly finished, and the frenzy of visiting, and thus numerous characters, seems to have died down, so there might be some clarity.

I have finished and am looking for the spoiler thread. However, I think it is safe to say here that I found this one unsatisfactory, and wonder about the 1970s novels in their entirety. To me, they are poor reflections of the past really well plotted books, with their range of interesting and suspicious characters and clues in abundance - but so hard to see.

Yes, I can relate Robin. When I read the 1970s books before the context of the whole series I didn’t get at all how people could be such Poirot fans! But I’m glad I’ve been reading all the wonderful earlier books and I find that makes me mellow regarding the last couple of books. They are rather messy but I like them anyway as a way to spend some time with Poirot.

Robin wrote: "I have finished and am looking for the spoiler thread. ..."

The spoiler thread is here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I agree with Robin and Jessica that the later books in the series are poor in standard when compared with the wonderfully plotted earlier ones.

This specific book was very disappointing. Either Agatha Christie has run out of ideas, or, she has simply taken things lightly since it is almost the tail end.

Piyangie wrote: "I agree with Robin and Jessica that the later books in the series are poor in standard when compared with the wonderfully plotted earlier ones.

This specific book was very disappointing. Either A..."

I wonder if it was with a publisher's encouragement . I have read that there were demands for Poirots, particularly before the Christmas period. On the other hand, I think that Christie really enjoyed writing, and might have just kept on as long as she could continue to be published.

Judy wrote: "Robin wrote: "I have finished and am looking for the spoiler thread. ..."

The spoiler thread is here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/......"

Thank you Judy.

I've just finished and agree that it wasn't one of her good ones.

I know that she was in failing health from the early 1970's on and some speculate that she had Alzheimers (apparently there was a study that looked at things like the richness of her vocabulary or complexity of her sentences, and one could see a gradual decline in both over the later novels). It remains remarkable to me that she continued to write into her 80s.

Frances wrote: "I've just finished and agree that it wasn't one of her good ones.

I know that she was in failing health from the early 1970's on and some speculate that she had Alzheimers (apparently there was a ..."
I'm rereading Lord Edgeware Dies at the moment, and the difference is so pronounced. I wonder whether her publishers just kept pushing and publishing , whatever the standard of the output. I'm in two minds about whether this should happen, for example, when we look at Austen's Juvenilia it could be suggested that it is weak in comparison with the adult novels. however, it tells us something about Austen that is really interesting. Perhaps the same can be said for the works of an ageing writer? And, you are right, Frances, writing in her eighties is a feat in itself.

Robin, it remains remarkable, and probably helped slow her decline, that she remained active and engaged, even if the product wasn't as brilliant as her earlier work. Like a declining friend or relative, I still enjoy spending time with Dame Agatha, Poirot and Ariadne, even if not at their best.

Frances wrote: "Robin, it remains remarkable, and probably helped slow her decline, that she remained active and engaged, even if the product wasn't as brilliant as her earlier work. Like a declining friend or rel..."

Yes, I agree about slowing her decline. She shows the amazing ability to bring together characters familiar to readers as young people, and then ageing them in this novel. The richness of the early novels is indeed missing, but then, when I think of some current publications, the ageing Christie is not alone.

When reading about Ariadne visiting her elders friends in care homes and such today, I wondered whether Agatha was doing some digesting or processing of her own experience when ageing.

It’s interesting how she presented us early on with ‘old’ protaganists, Miss Marple, Poirot retired ages ago! But only in the last two books we’re really exploring the limitations of old age.

That being said, I’m afraid I cannot keep all the Elephants Ariadne is visiting straight... but picked up on some vital clues in the conversations (I think 😂)

Jessica wrote: "When reading about Ariadne visiting her elders friends in care homes and such today, I wondered whether Agatha was doing some digesting or processing of her own experience when ageing.

It’s intere..."

Very true, about aging and the different experiences of Miss Marple (already “fluffy old lady” when we meet her - indeed, part of her camouflage as a detective!), vs. Poirot, retired when we meet him, but goes on for decades investigating, but doesn’t seem to age until the very end.

I agree, I felt with all of Ariadne’s “elephant” visits, we are barraged with information, but can’t be sure what is reliable, let alone a relevant, clue, vs. superfluous red herrings. That’s why I felt the whole premise was a powerful meditation on memory - the details we recall, whether they are true or just impressions we formed at the time, which harden into “facts”, etc.

Hm that's very nicely put Susan! A meditation on memory .

I am glad I didn't let all the side characters confuse me, I didn't pay much attention to which particular elephant Ariadne was talking to when, but just the the conversations wash over me whilst listening for interesting clues. I think that strategy worked fine, and in that way I could enjoy the meandering mind and conversational style of Ariadne.

I finished the book now, it's not in my top 10 of Poirots but did enjoy it.

Jessica wrote: "Hm that's very nicely put Susan! A meditation on memory .

I am glad I didn't let all the side characters confuse me, I didn't pay much attention to which particular elephant Ariadne was talking t..."

The vagueness works better for readers (like me) who don't actively try to solve the mystery, but if you are trying to narrow down on specific clues, it can be difficult. I think the main thing that somewhat ruined this book for me was all of the mention of elephants! I feel as though Christie can get caught up on her themes (just think of all of her nursery rhyme books), but can take it too far.

Tara wrote: "Jessica wrote: "Hm that's very nicely put Susan! A meditation on memory .

I am glad I didn't let all the side characters confuse me, I didn't pay much attention to which particular elephant Ariadn..."

Yes, I agree - beating the reader over the head with a chosen theme can be annoying! It better be done really well, also, or readers will get tired of it, lose interest.

Jessica wrote: "Hm that's very nicely put Susan! A meditation on memory .

I am glad I didn't let all the side characters confuse me, I didn't pay much attention to which particular elephant Ariadne was talking t..."

Thanks! Yes, Ariadne is a rather “stream of consciousness” thinker - reading about the precise, supremely logical Poirot trying to follow her conversations is very entertaining for me! We readers can get inside her head, so we know where she has been, who she has talked to, and what the conversation was, so we can follow her thinking out loud, but poor Poirot is often grasping at threads of her comments, trying to make sense of them!

I'm not very far in and having fun with Mrs. Oliver as I always do. I like imagining Christie poking fun at herself. So far Poirot has a very minor role.

Susan in NC wrote: "Jessica wrote: "Hm that's very nicely put Susan! A meditation on memory .

I am glad I didn't let all the side characters confuse me, I didn't pay much attention to which particular elephant Ariadn..."

Oh yes! Poirot has the patience of a saint trying to understand what Ariadne is telling him.