Reading the 20th Century discussion

Welcome to our June 2021 group read discussion about....


The Sympathizer by Viet Thanh Nguyen

This discussion will open on or around 1 June 2021

"It is April 1975, and Saigon is in chaos. At his villa, a general of the South Vietnamese army is drinking whiskey and, with the help of his trusted captain, drawing up a list of those who will be given passage aboard the last flights out of the country. The general and his compatriots start a new life in Los Angeles, unaware that one among their number, the captain, is secretly observing and reporting on the group to a higher-up in the Viet Cong.

The Sympathizer is the story of this captain: a man brought up by an absent French father and a poor Vietnamese mother, a man who went to university in America, but returned to Vietnam to fight for the Communist cause. A gripping spy novel, an astute exploration of extreme politics, and a moving love story, The Sympathizer explores a life between two worlds and examines the legacy of the Vietnam War in literature, film, and the wars we fight today."

It has an impressive list of prizes to its name: Pulitzer Prize for Fiction (2016), California Book Award for First Fiction (Gold) (2015), PEN/Robert W. Bingham Prize Nominee for Shortlist (2016), Edgar Award for Best First Novel (2016), Dayton Literary Peace Prize for Fiction (2016)
Deutscher Krimi Preis for 2. Platz International (2018), The Center for Fiction First Novel Prize (2015), Andrew Carnegie Medal for Fiction (2016), Asian/Pacific American Award for Literature for Adult Fiction (2015), International Dublin Literary Award Nominee for Shortlist (2017).

Sounds fascinating as it looks at one of the less explored sites of post colonial identity (Vietnam). Apparently it has a section set during the filming of Apocalypse Now.

The thread is now open.

I haven't read this before so am looking forward to our usual discussions - who else will be joining in?

I’m looking forward to it.

I read it a while back, but so much of it is still vivid in my mind.

This book has been on my tbr for a few years. I started it a day or so ago and I'm enjoying it so far.

I'm still vacillating, I got halfway through this recently but then just put it down and didn't pick it up again. It reminded me a little of Joseph Heller's work, so will see if the discussion tempts me back to it!

I started the book 4 years ago. Had to return it to the library before finishing it. Then, I picked it up a year later and started it again but didn't get any further! I was really interested in the beginning but I don't remember why I set it down. I now own the book so I will give it another try!

Probably not. However, I am still reading Graham Greene's The Quiet American.

Jan C wrote: "Probably not. However, I am still reading Graham Greene's The Quiet American."

You could pen a few insights and observations, or indeed notes and queries, on our The Quiet American discussion. It's got plenty of interesting content already, but more is always welcome and you'd probably stimulate even more discussion. I hope you're enjoying it as much as I did.

Right, back to The Sympathizer....

Interesting how mixed the views are so far on this. I've read only the first chapter and we're certainly plunged into the story with no hand-holding. I think I like the challenging approach in that it makes us work a bit (thanks Google!) to orient ourselves.

Also, tying this up with our postcolonial theme, everything I've read or seen about the Vietnam war has been about the American experience. I can understand that it was a trauma that defined a generation and spawned some great books and films - but overturning the story and offering up not just a Vietnamese perspective but a communist perspective is very appealing to me.

It's already exposed my ignorance by forcing me to look up the involvement of the Khmer Rouge in Vietnam - and I'm only on ch.1!

Jan, you are reading The Quiet American... are you enjoying it?
The Sympathizer is a natural companion to Graham Greene’s book and the time line in The Sympathizer takes up where The Quiet American stops.
The synergy between the two novels is obvious. Both feature covert espionage, (America in both books), and the linkage is specifically declared in The Sympathizer when it is stated early on that the unnamed narrator is doing a senior thesis titled” Myth and Symbol in the literature of Graham Greene”.

I think that if you enjoy The Quiet American then the investment in the Sympathizer (a much longer, denser work) is well worth the time.

Interesting, Jonathan. I have mentioned elsewhere that I'm not a Greene fan and had to read The Quiet American for GCSE (which might explain the aversion) so that it's drilled into my head. It probably deserves a reread but... ;)

Chapter 2

I hadn't consciously thought about how many words there are for the children of unmarried liaisons between coloniser and colonized: the book quotes bastard, mongrel, half-breed, metis (French), Eurasian, Amerasian...

My knowledge of The Vietnam War is very limited but have stumbled across this highly rated 10 part documentary to further my knowledge.
https://watchdocumentaries.com/the-vi...

I’m really enjoying the writing style.

I'm finding the prose style a teeny bit over-written in the use of metaphors, but the richness of the story has grabbed me.

RC. I agree with you about the richness of the story, but I do love my metaphors.

Stephen wrote: "RC. I agree with you about the richness of the story, but I do love my metaphors."

Ha!

The end of chapter 3 with the evacuation from Saigon - I'm drained just reading it.

I thought Chapter three was superbly written and fully conveyed the sense of panic and chaos... Not wanting to dampen your enthusiasm RC, but I thought this chapter was the highlight of the whole book.

Jonathan wrote: "Not wanting to dampen your enthusiasm RC, but I thought this chapter was the highlight of the whole book"

Ha, I shall temper my expectations :)

Chapter 5 is quite humorous.

RC wrote: The end of chapter 3 with the evacuation from Saigon - I'm drained just reading it.

Then buckle your seat belt for ch. 5, RC! CIA pal Claude recounts his own frantic escape from Saigon.

Until now, my reading of this author was limited to his opinion pieces in the NY Times on anti-Asian and anti-refugee hostility. So I have been all the more pleased to discover his talent as a novelist in the first half-dozen chapters of The Sympathizer

I thought alerting us at the very start that the Captain’s story is in the form of a “confession” to the “Commandant” holding him in an isolation cell was a good motivator for readers to keep a careful eye out for unreliable narration. Though a communist spy living with the family of a South Vietnamese general, he reveals in the first few pages an ability to both appreciate and criticize multiple dimensions of the Vietnamese and the Americans.

Ch. 4

I loved that last section of ch. 4 where we hear all those rumours and stories, some wrenching, others more hopeful, that spread amongst the Vietnamese refugees now in America after the fall of Saigon.

Just starting ch. 5.

Gregory wrote: "Though a communist spy living with the family of a South Vietnamese general, he reveals in the first few pages an ability to both appreciate and criticize multiple dimensions of the Vietnamese and the Americans."

Yes, that in-betweeness of the narrator is almost a theme in itself, not just in terms of racial identity but also his propensity to negotiate between religions and political ideologies.

What kind of camp is he writing from? Is it a communist 're-education' camp because they think his principles have become compromised?

RC wrote: Yes, that in-betweeness of the narrator is almost a theme in itself, not just in terms of racial identity but also his propensity to negotiate between religions and political ideologies.

I'm starting to think that very "in-betweeness" that helps make him such an intriguing, complex character may also make him more vulnerable to unmasking as a spy. He's an insomniac who, even after so many years of spying experience, panics inside when the General wonders in Guam if there could be: "Sympathizers. Spies in our midst." The narrator tells us that: "the only parts of me not sweating were my eyeballs," (p. 57) Likewise in LA, when the General's suspicions arise again, the Captain's stomach "began to rotate counterclockwise." (86) He keeps straight-faced, but then is wracked with guilt by his ch. 6 actions. Could his conscience be the culprit causing confinement in a camp?

Jonathan wrote: "Jan, you are reading The Quiet American... are you enjoying it?
The Sympathizer is a natural companion to Graham Greene’s book and the time line in The Sympathizer takes up where The Quiet American..."

It is all right. I've seen the movie so thought it was time I read it.

Viet Nam affected my entire generation, whether serving there or not. So I'm just not sure how much I want to read about it. I suppose it makes sense to do so. What's done is done. But I guess I've always avoided reading much about either Korea or Viet Nam. Just that they were wars that America was involved in that most people aren't sure why.

I've been a slow reader this week, just very busy at work...

I enjoyed reading your review, Jonathan. Is the narrator's father American? I was under the impression (could be be wrong) that he was British? And a Catholic priest - all of which complicate all those ideas of hereditary identity that you pinpoint as themes.

RC
Catholic priest, definitely.
Could he be British? Did you read something in the text to this effect?

I will have to check again when I get home tonight. You have sown the seeds of doubt!
Given that Vietnam was a French colony, and with French missionaries in the c.18/19th it never occurred to me that British nationals would be involved. The narrators connection with America, via his education, was a further point that led me to assume American parentage.
While there’s no significant direct historical connection between Vietnam and Britain, the influence of Britain in a wider IndoChinese context (Burma for example), certainly means it’s possible that some wider involvement of the international Catholic Church could result in British priests in Vietnam, I guess.

Jonathan said RC
Catholic priest, definitely.
Could he be British? Did you read something in the text to this effect?

I assumed, possibly wrongly, that the narrator's father was French.

Jonathan wrote: "RC
Catholic priest, definitely.
Could he be British? Did you read something in the text to this effect?"

I thought I had but now I can't find it so maybe I imagined it! Maybe the narrator doesn't state explicitly his father's nationality?

There's that bit at the start of ch. 2 where he's discussing all the names given to illegitimate mixed race children born as a result of colonialism, and he calls the term 'Amerasian' 'a misnomer when applied to me' though 'I could hardly blame Americans for mistaking me as one of their own' - so his father is not American. Could have been French and yes, that's more historically likely than English.

I'm not reading along at the moment, although I may get to this book later, but did notice it says the narrator's father is French in the publisher blurb at the top of the thread, for what it's worth.

The Sympathizer is the story of this captain: a man brought up by an absent French father and a poor Vietnamese mother, a man who went to university in America, but returned to Vietnam to fight for the Communist cause.

Ah ha! Thanks, Judy :)

Finished! My review is here, spoilers are hidden.

I found it a difficult one to rate: 3.5 stars, as I explain, but rounded up to 4. Structurally, the whole middle section about the film (based on Apocalypse Now) seems too long, even an offcut from a separate book, though clearly linked thematically.

But the shifting narrative position from 'I' to 'he' to 'we' at the end is cleverly managed and important, I felt.

Having now finished the book, I wonder if that section at the end of ch. 3 about the evacuation from Saigon is written in deliberately cinematic style? We have commented above on how vivid and draining it is - but I also felt when reading that I could see it partly because we've *already* seen that scene many times before, haven't we? The place might not be Saigon, the refugees might not be Vietnamese, but the chaos as they are rescued by American marines and the CIA has an interesting relationship to the filming later which the narrator sees as cultural propaganda.

Also, anyone else think the last section is in intentional dialogue with 1984?

Finished this morning. Left with the feeling, how many 'big' themes is it possible to tackle in one novel. Impressive, with lots to think about.

Stephen wrote: "Finished this morning. Left with the feeling, how many 'big' themes is it possible to tackle in one novel. Impressive, with lots to think about."

I will try to locate a copy. Sounds very interesting.

I have finished and while I really enjoyed the interesting perspective on the Vietnam War and after, my feelings about the plot, writing and scene depictions varied through the novel. I thought the interrogation part at the end kind of dragged and I probably didn't fully appreciate what the author was trying to portray. I wavered between 3 and 4 stars through the read, but the ending tipped the scales to 3 stars. I most enjoyed the scenes set in America as I think I especially appreciated the narrator's thoughts, actions and dilemmas during that period. I am glad to have read it.

I gave it 3.5, Brian, and also found it uneven. I admired the ambition and what I think is the intention but don't think it always came to fruition. I am also glad to have read it - was it his first novel? It seems to suffer from that syndrome of pushing too much into one book.

Roman Clodia wrote: "was it his first novel? "

It was indeed Viet Thanh Nguyen's debut novel, published in 2015. He then published a second novel called The Refugees in 2017 and just recently, on March 2, 2021, he published a sequel to The Sympathizer and, keeping the title symmetry, called it The Committed.

I am really enjoying this discussion. I originally read this for Amazon Vine and it was quite memorable. Amazon's set up makes it quite the challenge to find my review but I think I awarded 5 stars.
A couple people have mentioned that they got stuck, I remember this being an issue for me as well. I encourage you to push through as I found the ending rewarding. I could really identify with the narrator, I felt it was the story's strength. I feel I came away understanding that era much more as a result. I was just starting to realize the serious issues surrounding this war as it was wrapping up.

The church I attended actually supported refugee family after the fall of Saigon, and I was fascinated as I observed them as they acclimated to a new country, language and everything else foreign to them. I remember having the deepest respect for their struggles and challenges. I remember the hate that was directed toward them and being so troubled by it.

Regarding The Quiet American, I have watched the movie at least 8 or more times, I find it fascinating. I began the book itself but never finished.

I do read history, non-fiction and historical fiction, this certainly provided me with a deeper understanding of the behind the scenes activities.

Terrific story, just not able to reread it at this time.

Special thanks to Nigeyb for guiding the conversation.

I read this one a few years ago and I do not remember much. However, what stuck in my head was Chapter 3 with the evacuation from Saigon and that the novel dragged in the middle but regained its strength at the end.

I think The Sympathizer is a remarkably ambitious, action- and idea-packed debut novel. It grabbed me from the opening admission that the narrator was a commie spy who had apparently been captured by his enemies. It followed with breathless escapes, assassinations, torture – but also flashes of humor, romance and thoughtful passages about imperialism, racism, representation and class vs. individual freedoms.

My “sympathy” for the narrator almost came to a screeching stop in chapter 16. With his side victorious back home and his pursuit of the gorgeous, rebellious Lana in LA finally succeeding, he drops everything -- defying his own spymaster's orders -- to obey the General’s doomed plan to join a tiny US-backed exile group on the Thai-Laotian border. But this awkward transition did finally lead to a powerful and painful concluding third of the tale. Can’t wait to read the sequel. Till then, here’s my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Wish I'd this sooner. No dull moments so far. Very funny in parts.

Meant wish I'd started this sooner. : )

Overall I liked the book. I don't rate books by stars but by whether I'd read the book again. (Ratings are from "I'd wish I'd never started this" to "Read it again straight away". I give this a "I'd read this again when the bookshelf is looking a bit empty. Say 3.5 stars?
A few points on this from me.
*My copy of the book had a review from the Guardian on the cover:- “Tremendously funny….”. Hmmm. Perhaps “Wryly funny …..”?
*The bit about the making of the film was superfluous and though (wryly) funny in places with very good characters could have been dropped as I didn't see any relevance to the rest of the book.
*Found the last 100 pages or so "The Interrogation" very hard going though I think I got it in the end.
There was one quote that struck me forcibly and will remain with me:- "A slogan is an empty suit draped on the corpse of an idea". - Very good!

Jppnkirk wrote: "I don't rate books by stars but by whether I'd read the book again. (Ratings are from "I'd wish I'd never started this" to "Read it again straight away."

I like your system!

I agree that this suffers from common issues with first novels: trying to cram in enough ideas for four books! It could have let the ideas breathe a bit more.

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