Support for Indie Authors discussion

Now I'm definitely not at this point yet, but it is certainly a curiosity I haven't found an actual answer to. E-Books, those make sense. But self-publishing a paperback, or even a hardcover, I know how to get copies of my book for MYSELF, but what if a store wants to order some copies? How does everything all lonk together? Any help on publishing is good help for me, and thanks in advance :)

I believe there is a way through Amazon, but I've never investigated it.

That said, if your book takes place in a certain locale/vacation setting, you could approach the stores in that area to see if they'd be willing to carry yours.

I got my books into the Edmonds Bookstore in Edmonds, WA, probably because my last name is Edmonds. Just guessing!

First, a sad but unavoidable truth: the chains buy centrally. And they are not going to say yes to someone who has no track record, and could not sell the acquiring editors at a publishing company on using their resources to prepare it for market.

But assume they do say yes. Bookstores take books on consignment, and after a month or two, return the unsold copies. So we’re talking thousands of copies. And for those that don’t sell, you eat the printing costs, and pay the shipping cost both ways.

And in the bookstore, what differentiates your offering from the thousand others, in a way that will make the reader choose to read the opening three or four pages as an audition? It doesn’t carry an author's name they're seeking, have heard of, or had recommended by a friend.

Perhaps a unique and interesting cover? One that stands out from all the others?

In other words, a new author has an uphill battle, both as to getting on the shelf, and getting noticed if they do get there. So, if you’re lucky, and persuasive, you may sell a local bookstore or two on carrying a few copies for a while, if they like your writing.

Your mileage may differ.

You can not get books into book stores via Amazon since Amazon would love to see all the other book sellers go out of business.

1. You need an ISBN. One for paperback, hardcover, e-pub, Mobi, audio. You could probably skip the MOBI since you can publish on Amazon using their number since they don't sell to libraries or book stores. Buy your own and make yourself the publisher.
2. You need a distributor. It can be Smashwords, Draft2Digital, Ingram Spark, Baker&Taylor, etc. or you can go to each bookstore and put your book in manually and handle all the updates, etc, with each store, There are more distributers out there, so check out the prices and terms.
3. When you have covers done, make sure you have ones for paperback and hardcover. You will need that great blurb for the back of the book. Check out Ingram spark's requirements for color so you aren't pulling your hair out in getting it redone correctly.
4. You can get copies of your book and sell them on consignment in the smaller stores. Do Not try to do that with Amazon books unless you have your own ISBN on the book. Most book stores with NOT deal with Amazon books because Amazon wants to put them out of business.

I find it easy to go through D2D who has contracts with various stores. They will tell you to do your own Amazon set up since it will create less confusion and allow you to do the Amazon ads easier. I will advise you to buy and uses your own ISBNs, even on Amazon. That way you become the publisher, not the distributor since the ISBNs are linked to who buys them. This is important if you are copyrighting your book. That is only $50 and you can do it online. You do not need to pay for a form or for someone else to do it for you.

My paperback was listed in Barnes and Noble and The Indie Bookstore after receiving positive reviews from employees. They buy through Amazon though I've had only a handful of sales and none recently.

That is new then, because less than three years ago the book had to have an ISBN. The ASIN did not get you into bookstores, no matter what reviews you had. They use the ISBN for cataloging and sales, etc. It is part of a national database for books. So if your book is on Amazon and you have it in another database, they can find it and will order it from there, but normally B&N will not order anything from Amazon. In fact, my local B&N won't handle a book without an ISBN. I asked for a paperback I saw online and it wasn't in their database. When I checked, the book had an ASIN which is exclusive to Amazon, not and ISBN.

I went through Ingram Spark. They have a platform to self publish and you can get a code to set it up for free. You still should buy your own ISBNs so you can control your book. Ingram is a major book distributor and they distribute to Barnesandnoble.com, Amazon, KOBO, Apple books and also to bookshop.org which is the indie bookstore answer to Amazon. Independent brick and mortar bookstores order only from ingram so if you reach out to the local independents and let them know they can purchase, they may sell the first few on consignment and then order directly from ingram. I hope that helps.

B.A. wrote: "In fact, my local B&N won't handle a book without an ISBN. I asked for a paperback I saw online and it wasn't in their database. When I checked, the book had an ASIN which is exclusive to Amazon, not and ISBN."

I've just set up a paperback on Amazon, and it has both ASIN and ISBN. Amazon actually gives you a free ISBN if you don't have your own.

Same here, I just published a paperback last week with Amazon and they assign a free ISBN. You can also opt for expanded distribution and if your book is eligible it goes into the Ingram distribution channel. That has its pros and cons so do the research before opting in, but it is available.

Yep, the royalty from expanded distribution sales is lower and the ceiling is higher. For me (170k words, 6x9 paperback), the break-even point (just cover printing cost and seller cuts at $0 profit) is $15 for Amazon sales and $24 for expanded distribution.

It simply isn't worth it to get your books into a bookstore. Few people buy anything but high-profile authors from a brick and mortar store. If you got 15 books into the store, on a returnable basis (the only way a bookstore takes them), you'd have to sell 10 to break even and chances are you won't. The would send back any unsold at your cost.

It's better to organize a personal book signing somewhere, such as an independent bookstore who may allow you to sell without taking a commission.

Stick with Amazon exclusive for a higher royalty and invest in Amazon Ads, or other reasonable advertising method.

You're all incredible and these are all such amazing responses! Thank you all so much!!

If you want cheap and trust Amazon, go for it. If you want to sell elsewhere, you will need and ISBN. If you accept the ISBN from wherever you are publishing, they become your publisher since that ISBN is assigned to them. Remember that.

I will admit I do sell on Amazon, but I don't trust them one iota. They change the rules in their favor and screw you, the one who keeps them in business in the process. For that very reason, I do publish wide and pay for my own ISBNS. I don't worry about physical bookstores but I want to have a presence on other platforms.

Amazon is getting too big and they are already being looked at for price fixing and other infractions such as taking back author royalties.

I very much agree with Robert. Other than the notoriety of saying your book is in a brick-and-mortar store, you could actually lose money on many consignment arrangements. I actually turned my local Chapters/Indigo store down because they wanted a 50% cut. I would have lost $2 on every book they sold. Would it have been worth the marketing and exposure? Maybe. But I don't think the giant retailers will be stocking your book in the "best new releases" section right at the front.

Something to keep in mind if you do elect to be listed in stores as a title to be ordered, as against them actively carrying copies:

First, the only people who will know to ask the store to order it for thm are those you attract to your page online. And if they see it there, and can order it there, why drive to a bookstore, order it, and then drive there again to pick it up, when they can have it sent, right then, and never leave their house?

2. Individual stores are often reluctant to order self-published offerings because they've had a bad experience in the past, with customers complaining when they find they can't return a book they didn't like. Sure, the store is paid in advance, and ordered books are non-returnable, so they lose only time, but having a disappointed customer complaining in front of other customers isn't something they want to chance.

The solution, of course, is to write a best seller that every reader will recommend to friends, and which no one will ever want to return. 🤣

I think there is a symbiotic relationship between independent bookstores and their local authors. I don't think it makes financial sense to reach out to all indie bookstores in the world or in your state, but I think it's important to be a part of the local literary culture and help local independents create their niche. And if that means losing $1 a copy for a few in order to bolster their local author section and for me to be proud of my community, so be it. I know the majority of my books will sell through amazon, but I'll be sure to do my part and support local and buy local.

Vince, I couldn't agree more!

B.A. wrote: "That is new then, because less than three years ago the book had to have an ISBN. The ASIN did not get you into bookstores, no matter what reviews you had. They use the ISBN for cataloging and sale..."

I'm new to this group, so not sure if this is helpful or not. I and am also new to writing (first published end of July 2020). I used the free Amazon Paperback ISBN and my first book was in paperback in B&N within two months. They now have my third as well (they don't have my second, which is a little silly, being a series). However, my point was, at first I had no idea how they got there, and I only have the Amazon ISBN for my paperback books. However, I believe this comes from Expanded Distribution in my KDP Bookshelf under paperback pricing.

Yeah, Expanded distribution allows Amazon to sell the paperback in other stores, though at a larger price cut. Since I don't expect to sell paperbacks, I enabled it and had to up the price to $25 (700-page book) to get above negative royalty for Expanded while the minimum for selling it on Amazon is around $16.

Get your own ISBN. That gives you control of your book. Using Amazon's doesn't allow you to load to Barnes & Noble Press.

I agree with Robert. Get your own ISBN and take control of your book. You are self-published, but you don't need to have Amazon control where you put your books.

When you use a company's free ISBN they get credit for being your publisher. No matter where you take that book, that ISBN will say that Amazon, Draft2Digtal, Smashwords, etc are your publisher if you use that number.

Bottom line, if you want to self publish, take control of what you are doing. Buy your own ISBNs, have a decent editor, use a cover designer that you like. YOU are the publisher, so have the things you need to publish. Don't relay on the distributors for part of what you should be controlling. Yes, it's cheap, but when you go to get that copyright, it will show that company as your publisher--not good. Keep them as your distributor only.

The age old question lol. If it's local bookstore then there's a good chance of it happening but if it's Barnes & Noble or one of the other big bookstores then it may be a bit challenging.

I've had success locally to ask B&N to carry a local author. However, They don't have a local author section and it's put into the regular mix like everyone else with no promotion. But, hey, it's in the store and a good photo op for your website and social media to help provide legitimacy.

Hi Taylor, I've published my paperbacks through Amazon KDP but I think it's likely very difficult to get them into brick and mortar stores, although I'm sure it's not impossible. Being an Indie Author and new, I can't see mine getting into any shops for a long time. If ever. For the moment, I'm concentrating on Amazon. There is also Ingram Spark but I haven't tried them yet. I think most book stores will be very picky.

A year ago, I self-published a a novel "Bully another Day" and I am really not sure how to market it. I also self-published a poetry book "Spaces between the Pause." And, lastly, a collection of short stories by the name of "Short Stories and Vignettes." I put all these together during the pandemic. (Too much time on my hands, but strangely good for writing). Anyway, I am not sure how to market these books. I haven't put them on kindle. I like paperback. It just feels more like a book to me. Any suggestions? I'm just not sure what to do. Thanks.

Jenny wrote: "A year ago, I self-published a a novel "Bully another Day" and I am really not sure how to market it. I also self-published a poetry book "Spaces between the Pause." And, lastly, a collection of sh..."

Hi Jenny, yeah the marketing side of things is tough. I'm still trying to get to grips with it. I've published kindle and paperback on Amazon KDP for my first book, and will for my second. If just paperback, maybe Ingram Spark? The marketing side of it, my advice is to research as much as you can. I'm still learning, and it's tough going. Main thing is getting your book in front of enough of the right people. Amazon have AMS ads but they can be costly. If you decide to put them on kindle, Draft2Digital will convert it for you for free. There is Booksprout, freebooksy and other places like that. Reedsy Discovery and Literary Titan are two more. There is often a fee, but your book can then get in front of a lot of people, often editors, reviewers etc. They don't promise good reviews, but it can help. It's a slow process to build up a readership.

If you want your book in stores, you must have an ISBN. Bowker sells them but they are expensive. If you write a lot of book, the 100 ISBN package will save you a lot of money but it is $520 or there about.

If you used the ISBN from another company, they become your publisher. That's okay if you don't use your own imprint.
As mentioned above. Draft2Digital is a great place to go (with wonderful customer service) and they are easy to use. What they don't do is picture books. You use their templates for your books. Smashwords also put your books in various stores, but those a ebooks, the paperback on POD like Amazon but can be ordered from Draft2Digital or Smashwords.

As for marketing, that is promotion. You do need that email list so that you have a ready audience to sell to. Keep them excited with emails (That does not mean every day) that tell about you, your books, or even reviews of other books in your genre. As mentioned there are promotion sites.

Word of warning--keep to the ones like FreeBooksy, Book Gorilla, BookBub, BookSprout, the Fussy Librarian. For list builders you have Author XP and Prolific Works. If you are on BookFunnel, they have a free joint promotion and list builder section using a reader magnet.

Good luck.

The problem isn't the fact that it's hard for an indie book to get into a bookstore it's finding an actual bookstore these days. The ole brick and mortar bookstores seem to be dwindling less and less to the point where it's either Amazon, Barnes & Noble or nothing. I used to have a small bookstore in my town but it went out of business and now the next closest one is a town over but quite a ways away. Perhaps I may venture there someday as they do promote indie books. The bookstore is the creation of Jeff Kinney, the author who wrote the Diary of a Wimpy Kid series.

B.A. wrote: "If you want your book in stores, you must have an ISBN. Bowker sells them but they are expensive. If you write a lot of book, the 100 ISBN package will save you a lot of money but it is $520 or the..."

I found a place that sells ISBNs for much less. Bowker isn't the only game in town as far as purchasing ISBNs. Its called isbnservices.com

Note - getting hold of ISBNs varies from country to country. The information posted here is for the US.

If you live in Canada and meet the criteria for a Canadian publisher, ISBNs are free. Go to the Library & Archives Canada website for information.

You need to be aware that if you buy ISBNs from another company, it is registered to them, not you. Bowker is the only US approved seller of ISBNs. The others buy from them and resell to you. That means the ISBN is registered in their company name, not yours. Your book will have that ISBN but you really don't own that ISBN. I can sell you some of mine, but the ISBN will still show me as the owner, not you.

I bought my own ISBNs (pack of 10 at Bowker) and the number for my paperback is printed with a barcode on the back cover of my book.

But when I had it printed by Amazon, they added a *second* barcode with the ASIN. It's off to the side, so it doesn't cover the original barcode, but it's ugly and messes up the symmetry of the design. I checked the "do you have a barcode - yes" box in the setup, but I guess it was unavoidable since they want their own ID on it too? Anyone know if this is fixable?

I switched to Ingram Spark for printing my books. Yes, it costs money (they are gatekeepers of a sort) but I got a free promo to upload my books. My books are now available through anywhere you can order books online.

I bought my own ISBNs from Bowker.

Brick and mortar bookstores (yes, they still exist) can order through IngramSpark and if the books don't sell, they can return the books. Amazon does not allow returns. THIS is the real reason (I was told) bookstores won't order your book if it's only available through Amazon.

Another bonus to Ingram Spark is that libraries order their books from them.

B.J., you are right up to a point. You don't want to use returns if you don't need to since it may end up costing you money. Print on Demand still gets you into stores and libraries through Ingram. They are more efficient and better quality with the printing than the other POD places like Amazon or D2D. You do need to pay for those ISBNs and get a copyright, With the advent of AI, you want your books copyrighted. There have already been issues with authors being banned for copyright infringement with the AI produced books.

Draft2Digital is a close second to Ingram Spark. They distribute to most of the online stores including Amazon and Kobo, and have connections to libraries (I've got one book in several libraries through them) and other sellers. Unlike Amazon, they will not take back books and rescind your royalties. Amazon is NOT the best place any longer with them taking back royalties for returned books and audio, the changing ways of calculating your KU payments, their heavy handed suspensions of accounts and the long issues of getting reinstated even with the proper proof a book is yours, etc. Their customer service is so poor that you have to go through weeks of automated replies before getting a live person who may or may not speak English. Yep, been there, done that.

In other words, cover your butt with your own ISBNs, a copyright, and using other distributors along with Amazon.

B.A. wrote: "B.J., you are right up to a point. You don't want to use returns if you don't need to since it may end up costing you money. Print on Demand still gets you into stores and libraries through Ingram...."

This is very handy...thanks!

This is a question I've wondered and pondered for a while now. I know most indie authors would love to see their books in stores and aside from brick and mortar bookstores they could be in places like Wal-Mart, BJ's, Costco, etc. The question is though, how does an indie author make that happen?

I've personally only had my books in a small gift shop in Salem and that's only because I reached out to them during Halloween and made a pitch. I've considered doing that to other small chains but I wouldn't know how to go about that because they would likely tell me to talk to their distributor.

So alas, the question and wonder continues for me..