Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

Passing by Nella Larsen is a buddy read for May 2021. All are welcome to join.

I read this last year, so hope to comment. :)

I’m starting this today, looking forward to the discussions

Im here for this buddy read! It's been for a while but this really has to come off the list. Thanks Yall.

I read it earlier this year and liked it.

It was a completely different story than I thought it would be, though. I usually go blind into classics, books from lists or group reads, i.e. sometimes I don't even know what the book is about.
Here I imagined the story of a young girl and her efforts "passing" for another skin colour. The troubles she might face, both pulling it off and the psychological consequences this might cause in herself.

The book was really good, please don't get me wrong, I was just kind of disappointed that the story took place so "late" in the timeline. I would have loved to know more about the first attempts of "passing", the feelings, basically a more fleshed out story of how she met her husband and got married. We only get the broad outline of this story.

So yeah, my biggest point of criticism is "There wasn't enough of it.".

I started this last night - seems like I will whizz through it, so look out for my comments soon...!

I enjoyed this, the emotions were really intense between Irene and Clare. I liked the interplay of the personal feelings and the wider consciousness of race that made Irene so conflicted. I agree with Philina that I would have liked the story to fill in the gaps between Clare leaving and her reappearance, but maybe that uncertainty was part of the dynamic between the two main characters.

I'm starting this now. I'm super excited because I've been meaning to read this for a while now. I'm about to jump in! woo hoo

I am starting on Saturday. Looking forward :-)

I just finished it and I am still processing it. Can we divide the discussion into the 3 encounters? its a short story but so much to process. I mean the nickname kicked my butt! but the lying and the betrayal and the freaking tragedy are overwhelming too. We can dig into this ONE!

I read this a few years ago and loved it. I just read that there was a film made of it and it's going to be on Netflix. I'm looking forward to it.

okay so although the premise of this story is race but I thought betrayal and deception were stronger themes.

Newly, I am reading the three sections on different days, so we can discuss--you I, and anyone else--each section separately.

Section 1

Dramaturgy
Narcissism
Denial
Betrayal
Shame
Assumptions
Gossip

Passing requires something(s) more than "just a little nerve".

Great! The moral complexity in this book are just fabulously penned. From the onset Clare had no problem wrecking Irene's sense of peace and solace. But Irene's assumption of loyalty allowed her to do so! I'm referring to the encounter on the rooftop of the Drayton. Clare entered the scene with a man later confirmed as not her husband and encroached Irene's serenity. neither the man nor the relationship between he and Clare are ever addressed. Irene is so blinded race and passing that she misses this huge character point. I didn't understand how irene could allow herself to be manipulated into further meetings w/o first addressing the mysterious man. Especially when it was assumed and gossipped that Clara was at some point a prostitute.

Irene is confused. The rug of social understanding has been pulled out from under her feet and the balance bar of dignity has fallen down. Irene is at a loss on how to form questions and how to assess.
. . . and. . .
Irene is complicit in supporting Clare in her falsehoods.


But it is not easy either, is it.
So much happening.

Do you remember this quote of Maude of Harold and Maude by Colin Higgins:

How the world still dearly loves a cage.

The Jim Crow Laws were becoming more problematIc as people increasIngly lived more public lives--working in towns, consuming rather than producing, increased activity of civil rights groups such as NAACP. Black folks were becoming overly tired of being caged in. The fight back was done both by organizations as churches and civil rights groups but also by individuals. Clare, Irene, and Esmeralda were fighting back in their own ways.

I completely agree with you Cynda! Irene is so complicit in Clare's lies. after the tea at Clare's I can totally see why. at what point does an keeping a secret make one complicit? At what point can married women inject herself in another woman's marriage especially during Jim Crow America?

Part 2
In Section 1 of Part Two: Re-Encounter, there can be found the answer to why is Irene complicit. Of course that's the answer, but it takes brave thinking out as to why Irene would be complicit:

She couldn't betray Clare, couldn't even run the risk of appearing to defend people that were being maligned, for fear that that defence might in some infinitesimal degree lead the way to final discovery of her secret. She had to Clare Kendry a duty. She was bound to her by those very ties of race, which, for all her repudiation of them, Clare had been unable to completely sever.

There is so much complexity in this short book and I like the quite matter of fact way in which it is written. The idea of a cage is spot-on, Cynda.

Part 2, Section 1
Cages

Thanks Newly and Carolien.

While Clare is in a cage of her own choosing, Brian is in another cage but of his wife Irene's choosing. Clare's cage makes her lonely while Brian's kills his love for his wife.

thanks for the clarity but it doesn't what she stayed complicit especially after what happened in Chicago. pause real quick I gotta day that I loved how Larsen gave 3 marriage examples. The 2 interracial marriages couldn't have been more different and I dont think it was coincidence. The marriage based on honesty was never an option for Clare but she knew the man she married. He was comfortable sharing his views without censure to 2 strangers he found in his home. so I have difficulty believing he wouldn't have made those views known throughout their courtship however brief. In the re counter I was taken back at how Irene allowed Clare back into her life. I mean come on! How can this be a friendship when the effort I all one-sided? I mean Clare just shows up at her house unexpected and most importantly uninvited. I found this absurdly rude. For all Clare's supposed sophistication, Irene is the only one inhibited by the rules of polite society.

You are right Newly. The quite doesn't say why Irene stayed complicit. I think it is just more of the same--a way of doing things ingrained in Irene. . . .And somehow Irene is attracted to Clare's way of being, finds interaction irresistable.

Cynda you champion! Y'all throughout this tale I have felt like Ms Nella Larsen has been trying to teach me something about the human condition because that's what truly great writers do. I think I found it. I got to thinking about cages because Cynda's brought up this amazing quote about loving a cage. I know this is a leap but follow me on this. some folks use cages forcefully. they capture then throw animals inside, right. But others place something irresistible inside the cage and wait patiently. An animal will ignore the cage and willingly enter the cage to get the thing inside the cage. The latter certainly applies to both Irene and Clare. BOTH of these women are caged by their curiosity! WHAT? did y'all catch that? I didn't when I was reading the story and it absolutely explains their actions. Clare's longing can be explained by a curiosity of a world she regrets rejecting. Irene's misplaced loyalty could stem from a morbid curiosity to peek into a world she isn't accepted. In Part Two when Irene and her husband were questioning why ppl work so hard to create racial divisions yet are compelled to talk on the opposite side of those unnecessary separations, curiosity explains it. it's normal look at the lifestyle of others and wonder what that's like. It explains why reality TV is so popular too. Lol!

that was supposed to say compelled to walk on the other side. my bad guys

Yes Newly. If you liked that quote, I am almost certain you will like even more the screenplay or better yet the movie Harold and Maude.

Harold and Maude is a story that I admittedly shy away from because of Harolds obsession with death. it sounds like a thought provoking read but I can't wrap my mind around that. it's a bit gothic for me.

Yes Newly it has Gothic elements that are made fun of--a satire of Gothic. So life-affirming really. But just having the Gothic element could be upsetting in itself.

life affirming, really? Okay you sold that. I'll look for it. it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong from judging a book by its cover. thanks for the suggestion.

Harold and Maude has been out of print for over 30 years. Is the book a novelization of the movie? can I watch the movie and still get the message? the book will take a couple weeks but the movie is available

Newly wrote: "Harold and Maude has been out of print for over 30 years. Is the book a novelization of the movie? can I watch the movie and still get the message? the book will take a couple weeks but the movie i..."

Yes the book is a novelization. I have only watched the movie. It is filled with quotable quotes left and right. Enjoy!

sweet I'll go check it out! thanks for the suggestion. I gotta tell y'all this story has really opened my eyes to a chapter in history that is virtually unexplored. We get to the end of this intricate story of betrayal and deception and it ends in an uproar of tragedy. My only thought was Did Irene push Clare out the window? Did I reading it wrong because that's freaking nuts!

I'm reading the Norton Critical ed and it included collection of supporting documents including old news stories about what happened to ppl when they were found to be black. it helped me realize how much was truly at stake for Clare.

Newly, I love Norton Critical Editions. They have so much information that you can pick and choose what you want to know about. Are there items the rest of us could find online, such as court cases or biographies?

I didn't see any online materials but the research and extra information really helped me understand a piece of global history. this wasn't just an American problem but global as well. There's a story referenced in Passing about a man who filed for divorce after discovering his wife race. The Norton edition included that story.

Google kniws too much about me. It knows I have been reading Passing and sent me this article in my feed today, an article about a woman buying a house and hiding her being of African ancestry, a sort of passing.

what! this is insane. this illuminates the why so freaking clearly. quality share. by concealing her race she was able to add value to her home!

I had the same question about Clare possibly pushing Irene. I’m under the impression that she did. Anyone else?

I mean Irene pushing Clare.

Amy
Yes. Irene was worried if anyone had figured it out. Then when witnesses said that Clare's husband had not pushed Clare out of the window, that is the moment Irene knows/believes someone will tell truth or make good guess. Remember Irenenext to Clare at window. If Irene had not been the pusher of Clare, then she would not been so worried.

Um thats crazy! Im talking crazy salad covered in crazy sauce. I know we all read the scene but I gotta recap. So Clare is standing by the window. Her hubby (Jack or Jake?) walks into the room and makes a huge hullabaloo, right? This room is full of people and everyone has no choice but to pay attention to the distraction AND the person he talking to. Did Irene use the distraction of racism to commit murder? Do yall think that Irene's cheating spouse was trying to protect a murderer or just attack a racist? I mean he blamed Clare's husband when the police started asking questions.