Reading the Classics discussion

Discussion thread for the beginning of Washington Square

I've completed reading Washington Square. For the most part I found it a fast read. That said, I think I would prefer to wait until the last week to discuss the book in depth. For me it was a book that was uncomfortable at times, added to by the nature of the Protagonist, being a very familiar figure in my own family.

I will say that I was surprised that I learned so little about life and surroundings in the area called Washington Square. It is described at the beginning as a neighborhood of the upwardly moving affluent.

I don't remember much description of the surroundings. Did I miss it ??

I haven't yet read it, and my experience is the opposite: I know the area well. It's certainly an affluent residential area, tho it's also mixed in with the NYU crowd, so except for the private park (only residents have access), it's a pretty lively social gathering spot: people skateboard and rollerblade, picnic, and ALL ages play chess in the west end of the park (if you watch The Queen's Gambit, you will catch a glimpse of this).

Going into the novel, my feeling is it's fairly typical of mid-19th-century novels, in that it's chiefly concerned with social mobility, standards and strictures. Am looking forward to it.

I've read the first couple chapters of Washington Square and confess that I LOVE this type of stuffy English writing. Looking forward to digging in even further.

No spoilers, but having read through the first week's reading, I don't trust Morris Townsend as far as I can throw him! :)

Yes, frankly, he's giving me Wickham vibes. The writing is very similar to Jane Austen, even the characters; Dr Sloper is a lot like Mr Bennet. Let's see how this would go.

Like L_Gail, I have also completed reading Washington Square. From the beginning, I noticed a gap between tone and actions and started paying attention to what is missing (a mother) and what is hidden or unspoken. In Chapter 3, the narrator informs the reader that: "What she could not know, of course, was that she disappointed him, though on three or four occasions the Doctor had been almost frank about it." Throughout their first meeting, Miss Sloper says nothing to Morris, but she is obviously gobsmacked. I will continue to observe the hidden and unspoken.

Interesting observations. To me what is missing, throughout the relationships, is love. Miss Sloper comes the closest in regard for her father and in her feelings for Morris.

Interesting, a novel meant for 19th century readers almost bereft of love.

The nature of Catherine’s entire life is tragic. Unwanted by her father from birth and even more so after her mother died. It’s no wonder she immediately is intrigued by anybody showing even a semblance of interest in her. I will say Morris seems a little too smart to be up to any semblance of good. Great read so far!

L_Gail wrote: "Interesting observations. To me what is missing, throughout the relationships, is love. Miss Sloper comes the closest in regard for her father and in her feelings for Morris.

Interesting, a novel..."

Yes, love is missing and I think that may be the point. Perhaps James is exploring the consequences of and critiquing modernity that values cold reasoning over emotional humanity.

I would agree with Lorri about James' goals. If there's an overarching theme of Austen's novels, my impression of what it is is this: love conquering reason. So much of 19th century 'matchmaking' was centered on position, income, prospects and connections. We have a good deal of that still, but marrying across social strata is also far more common.

Austen's novels, for me, were about the victory of love over social expectations. Tho it's also worth pointing out that the resulting marriages were still always with rich men of position and status. Austen strayed from social dogma... but not by much.

I'm not sure what to expect from the rest of this one except to say I think it's clear that Catherine is the heroine, and that she will triumph in the end. Of course, I have never read Henry James, and could be wildly off base.

I think Austen shows the importance of shared values, love, and (darst I say it?) esteem (I durst!) between married couples. Living with financial insecurity and gender oppression also influence her works.

This was my first Henry James, too. I plan to read The Turn of the Screw next month. I am exploring the Gothic before rereading Northanger Abbey for Jane Austen July.

Well said, I think that nails what Austen was getting at. Be sure to suggest something from Austen for July if you like.

Interesting thoughts. I just finished Chapter 5 and am not sure I agree with all the comments, like Catherine being a tragic figure, but can't really give a solid argument about why not. I found Arthur's ramblings about upward mobility an interesting contrast to Dr. Sloper's decision to move (only once everything around him had been turned into warehouses). But I feel like I've only just gotten into the story, so I am looking forward to getting deeper and see what kind of trouble Mrs. Penniman makes for Catherine!

Catherine seems to me like an unpolished gem. She's been emotionally neglected by her father, and is afraid of him, which I suppose is enough to see her as a tragic figure.

I've read ahead, but recall not trusting Morris pretty much from the moment we meet him, and wondering whether Catherine would ultimately break free of Dr Sloper's shackles, and if she did, whether it would be for better or worse. Since I didn't trust Morris at the time, I was leaning toward expecting worse.

my initial response was just the opposite. While Morris was probably a bounder, from the beginning I was appalled by Dr. Sloper. I even wondered if the story would turn out so that Morris was not so bad as betrayed. When Dr. Sloper visited Morris' sister, the answer was revealed. However, this visit convinced me that Dr. Sloper was a villain, even if an unknowing one.

It's interesting how people characterize Catherine. I will hold my view until the end.

Catherine is clearly the heroine, at least to me, if for no other reason than that there is no other candidate. So she has to triumph in the end (over her father? Morris? Both?) if I'm right. Which I certainly may not be :)

I agree that Catherine is an undervalued heroine. Catherine is wealthy, privileged, and surrounded by family. Yet she is oppressed, emotionally isolated, uncommunicative, and socially awkward. She is a dutiful daughter and it will be interesting to see what kind of woman she will become.