The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Hi folks,

We're going to be reading Wuthering Heights in July. My copy has 500 pages, does anyone have an opinion about reading this book more quickly than usual? If I recall (I haven't read it in about 15 years) it wasn't "deep." I usually aim for around 70 pages a week. Can we do this one in 5 weeks at about 100 pages a week?

I would think a faster pace would be doable. For me, of all the Brontes only Anne requires close reading.

Great timing for me, incidentally—WH is the June group read in my real-world Jane Austen reading group! By July I’ll be on to Jasper Fforde’s delicious spoof, The Eyre Affair.

Abigail wrote: "I would think a faster pace would be doable. For me, of all the Brontes only Anne requires close reading.

Great timing for me, incidentally—WH is the June group read in my real-world Jane Austen ..."

I love the Eyre affair! That would be a fun side read some time for this group as it references so many of the classics.

Absolutely!

I just decided I might fit a re-read of this in July in and defer my planned read of Charlotte's Shirley from a July start to August - its part of 3 month GR book group reads from July to September.

I really liked Wuthering Heights when I read in many years ago, but I have wondered if I only liked it that much because it was better than and a bit bat-sh@#t crazy compared to Jane Eyre, which I read immediately beforehand. I also find myself not remembering a lot of the plot details so a reread is timely there too.

I am more apt to join in with a faster pace but please don't let that discourage you from choosing the faster pace.

Interesting - I wonder if people divide into Team Jane/Rochester and Team Catherine/Heathcliff. I much prefer Jane Eyre.

Robin P wrote: "Interesting - I wonder if people divide into Team Jane/Rochester and Team Catherine/Heathcliff. I much prefer Jane Eyre."

I think you are right. I prefer Emily’s poetry and even though there are great pieces of writing in Wuthering Heights, I am not a fan of the structure of the novel.
I have read WH once (then dipped back into favourite passages) but I have read Jane Eyre at least five times.
I would have liked the opportunity to read more novels written by Anne, who I think is still underrated and overshadowed by her sisters.

I’m with you, Trev, I’m totally on Team Anne. For me, Emily and Charlotte are high-class pulp fiction.

I have been wanting to read The Tenant of Wildfell Hall and it looks like this group hasn't read it. Maybe we can get it in later this year or next.

Trev wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Interesting - I wonder if people divide into Team Jane/Rochester and Team Catherine/Heathcliff. I much prefer Jane Eyre."

I think you are right. I prefer Emily’s poetry and even th..."

Trev you can always add Anne’s books to the books you want to read thread.

Have you all seen this comic featuring the Bronte sisters?

http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php...

Deborah wrote: "Trev wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Interesting - I wonder if people divide into Team Jane/Rochester and Team Catherine/Heathcliff. I much prefer Jane Eyre."

I think you are right. I prefer Emily’s poetr..."

I have read The Tenant of Wildfell Hall quite a few times and Agnes Grey more than once. I usually add books I haven’t read but reading them again is always a pleasure. There is something about Anne’s writing, particularly the ‘Tenant’, that has stayed with me with me more than most books and I am not sure why. The structure of the ‘Tenant’ is unusual but seems to fit well with the plot and characterisations, whereas I struggle a bit with the structure of Wuthering Heights.

Great cartoon!

Robin P wrote: "Interesting - I wonder if people divide into Team Jane/Rochester and Team Catherine/Heathcliff. I much prefer Jane Eyre."

If being on a team means that you have to like the characters I will have to remain teamless. I wouldn't want either couple as a neighbor. if I like WH better its because, unlike with Jane/Rochester, I don't think I'm intended to like the Catherine/Heathcliff combo.

Even if Anne is included, there is no good couple, as I found the incompetent governess, Agnes Grey, to be almost unbearably self-righteous. As to The Tenant of WH, while I found Gilbert's narration to be the best part of the book, I did think that Gilbert, like Rochester, was too deficient in the personality department to be happily-ever-after marriage material for the heroine.

I will say that I thought Anne exhibited a large vocabulary yet still wrote clearly and effectively, more so than Charlotte. I thought her storytelling was just adequate, although the T of WH as a whole is a very good and important work.

@Brian Reynolds, with which group are you going to be reading _Shirley_? It's been sitting on my shelf, waiting to be read. I could go for an August start as well, as I already have books lined up for June and July.

Brian wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Interesting - I wonder if people divide into Team Jane/Rochester and Team Catherine/Heathcliff. I much prefer Jane Eyre."

If being on a team means that you have to like the charact..."

I would be on Team Brontë and defend them all to the hilt. It’s hard to comprehend how such a group of sisters managed to produce what they did and get it published.

For me, some of the situations/incidents in ‘Tenant’ are unforgettable and I think the depiction of the (view spoiler)[ slow disintegration of a woman’s love for her husband (hide spoiler)] has probably never been described better.

You will find even more deficient couples in Shirley, but hasn’t the world always been full of them?

There is a battle going on at the moment to save historical buildings linked to the Brontës and the novel Shirley in particular. Due to savage funding cuts from central government, the local council has already closed and tried to sell off ‘Red House’ which was ‘Briarmains’ in Shirley and the home of Mary Taylor, Charlotte Brontë’s friend from childhood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hou...

The owner of a public house ‘The Shears’ where the Luddites met and plotted attacks, wants to demolish it. The first attempt has been rejected by planning authorities.

https://sslh.org.uk/2021/04/08/sslh-b...

Another building, ‘Oakwell Hall,” which was ‘Fieldhead’ in Shirley is rumoured to be under threat.
(From Wikipedia)
‘Elizabeth Gaskell described the house when discussing Shirley: "From the ‘Bloody Lane’, overshadowed by trees, you come into the field in which Oakwell Hall is situated... The enclosure in front, half court, half garden; the panelled hall, with the gallery opening into the bed-chambers running round; the barbarous peach-coloured drawing-room; the bright look-out through the garden-door upon the grassy lawns and terraces behind, where the soft-hued pigeons still love to coo and strut in the sun, – are described in Shirley. The scenery of that fiction lies close around; the real events which suggested it took place in the immediate neighbourhood." Elizabeth Gaskell; The Life of Charlotte Brontë (1857)’

Getting back to WH, my visits to ‘Top Withens’

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Wit...

have evoked the wildness and supernatural qualities of the book, if only for the ruined structure’s desolation and isolation. However, the only remarkable thing that ever happened to me there was when I was eating my lunch. As I turned my head to look across the moors, a sheep crept up and took a huge bite out of my sandwich.

LiLi wrote: "@Brian Reynolds, with which group are you going to be reading _Shirley_? It's been sitting on my shelf, waiting to be read. I could go for an August start as well, as I already have books lined up ..."

Two groups I belong to are reading Shirley between July and September:

Never Too Late To Read Classics NTLTRC:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... See Message 1

Catching Up With Classics CUWC:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... See Message 2

CUWC is also reading The Tenant of WH in July.

Both groups normally use just one general thread for the read although CUWC uses a Spoiler and a Non-Spoiler thread. Neither uses the weekly thread that works so well in this group.

Thanks, Brian! I'll take a look at both.

I'm reading _Tess_ with CUWC this month. I gotta admit I've been missing the chapter groupings/weekly threads that we have in this group, too. But I'm enjoying the read. :)

I read _Tenant_ and _Wuthering_ a few years back. They were both good, but I'm trying to tackle that giant TBR! Especially the ones physically on my bookshelf. :D

Okay, I'm stepping out of the way so that the wuthering can continue now...

Trev wrote: "I would be on Team Brontë and defend them all to the hilt. It’s hard to comprehend how such a group of sisters managed to produce what they did and get it published.."

Spoken like a true Bronte sisters fan, who may love one more than the other 2 at any given time but tries hard to love them all equally in public.
Since you defend "them all to the hilt" defend Charlotte's squelching of republishing sister Anne's TTOWH, affecting Anne's immediate posthumous fame. I'll try too:
Charlotte did this so that Anne's work would receive less attention at the time and then 150 years later she would become the critical darling as the long-neglected but actually best Bronte. Since Anne was already dead, Charlotte decided to play the long game with Anne's reputation.

Just what I need - another group! I see I have about 25 GR friends in CUWC and I would like to read Shirley and The Tenant, so I guess I will join them. I can use the time I will save by not reading Wuthering Heights!

Robin P wrote: "Just what I need - another group! I see I have about 25 GR friends in CUWC and I would like to read Shirley and The Tenant, so I guess I will join them. I can use the time I will save by not readin..."

Sorry, Robin, but did you forget to check the syllabus? Wuthering Heights is required reading for RR (how I abbreviate this group). You can't abandon us - we need your critical insight.
(Also I'm feeling guilty about diverting a reader from the RR group read )

Brian wrote: "Trev wrote: "I would be on Team Brontë and defend them all to the hilt. It’s hard to comprehend how such a group of sisters managed to produce what they did and get it published.."

Spoken like a t..."

Thanks Brian for that defence. My take is one that many others have put forward. I think that ‘big sis’ Charlotte was trying to protect Anne’s name from the scandal her second book was causing. Charlotte also altered parts of Agnes Grey after Anne’s death before the second edition was published.
I don’t think you can ignore the close-knit complex dynamics between the sisters. Charlotte’s actions and overt opinion of Anne’s writing were probably an over protective emotional response in support of her sister even though it looks likes she is critical of her work.

Brian wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Just what I need - another group! I see I have about 25 GR friends in CUWC and I would like to read Shirley and The Tenant, so I guess I will join them. I can use the time I will sa..."

I wasn't planning to reread WH in any case. I don't do all the monthly reads here, especially since I am leading the extra-long Musketeer Project. I chose to read both The Bostonians and The Longest Journey, and I'm a bit sorry about both of them!

Robin P wrote: "Brian wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Just what I need - another group! I see I have about 25 GR friends in CUWC and I would like to read Shirley and The Tenant, so I guess I will join them. I can use the ..."

So there's no chance than a reread of WH could switch you to team Cathy/Heathy??? Just teasing, Robin, about all of it, except the slight guilt part.

Robin P wrote: ".I chose to read both The Bostonians and The Longest Journey, and I'm a bit sorry about both of them!"

Even though both novels were disappointing, I don't regret reading them. I got value from each read, mainly due to the discussions.
I found The Bostonians group discussion wonderful and added to my appreciation of the novel; I feel after reading the novel and participating in the discussion, that I received more insight into James as a writer and person and also determined that the novel was kind of a mess. But it also turned out to be one of Henry James more stylistically interesting novels, such as having the melodramatic ending.
The Longest Journey was interesting for several reasons. As it was a bit autobiographical, there was insight into how Forster viewed his life. Also, as it is Forster's favorite of his novels it reminds me how artists often evaluate their own works using completely different standards than the public, which has determined The Longest Journey as their least favorite of his novels. It was not a difficult read, even if it was a bit of a mess too

I’ve read WH twice. Once in high school, and hated it (typical bad forced reading reaction, coupled with too little attention given to the read), and once as an adult, and loved it. I’m looking forward to reading it with a discussion group.

We've read WH in this group a few years ago. I can participate without re-reading it so soon.