2-3-4 Challenge Book Discussions #2 discussion

Adam crosses the line with Caitlyn, having a personal and intimate relationship with her while she’s his client. Should he have been penalized in some way for his behavior?

As I have already said, this really irritated me. His actions are criminal and in this day and age, he would be prosecuted (I hope!)

In real life he would be prosecuted I think. I'm not sure how that works though. There are some relationships between doctors and patients that lead to marriage or long-term relationships.

He should have turned her over to another doctor, but I understand why he didn't. He really wanted to find Rebecca and Caitlyn was the key. He also was really trying to help her.

I've made my feelings pretty clear.

Sharon, a relationship when the Doctor isn't seeing a patient in a professional role anymore probably is more acceptable to me. People are only human after all. In this book though it was totally inappropriate.

Doctor/patient romantic relationships are inherently abusive, especially when the doctor is a psychologist or psychiatrist. The doctor is in a position of power and authority over the patient and the relationship is not between equals who are fully aware or capable of making choices for themselves, especially if they are mentally ill.

If a doctor and patient marry when the patient is no longer being treated then it is more acceptable although it is still troubling because how much of the patient's love is actually a result of the doctor's influence/treatment. It is many shades of grey here, but as Lisa says, people are human.

I spent most of my career in healthcare at some well known hospitals. There are relationships that grow from the initial doctor/patient meeting. I don't think they are inherently abusive. The few I know are referrals from friends/acquaintances of the physician. It isn't like the doctors says "Let me see you tonsils. How about a date?." Mostly they see the patient in a professional setting and a personal setting too.

I never worked for a psychiatric practice just GPs or orthopedic groups. I agree that a psychiatrist would need to be extra careful not to encourage a patient in any way. They are dealing with a person's psyche and that patient is more vulnerable than having a broken hip.

I admit that I had fantasies about a few of my doctors, and understand how it would make a good fictional romance.

I want to clarify that I'm not in favor of doctor/patient relationships in real life. (Even though it happens.) In fiction, I take myself into the fantasy world and allow the unbelievable. It doesn't make me crazy.

I know a billionaire will never move next door and fall head over heels for me. I won't get the super, sexy, jock to take me away for all this. (Although my husband did a pretty good job.) I don't have to worry about walking into the sexy doctor's office and having him fall at my feet. My boss is not going to go crazy and bend me over his desk, etc.

In my book world, I can drop into a character, and live the fantasy for a short time.

Sharon, I’m with you there. I can suspend belief in fiction for the sake of a good story. The problem with this one is it rankled more because the story was problematic.

I posted the AMA ethics section pertaining to psychiatrist/patient relationships and this is clearly a serious ethics brief that would have required disciplinary action. And, if Caitlyn wanted to, she could sue him. It was just a terrible move for Adam to enter a relationship where he knew the patient was seriously messed up. It was almost diabolical in nature.

I was dumbfounded that Adam was so clueless about Caitlin's mental problems until he found Rebecca's hidden file. The man was obviously not a very good therapist. For him to sleep with her when she had such blatant problems was beyond stupid.

But he’d read her paper files and knew she had serious issues. All he didn’t know was she had a split personality. I believe he knew and slept with her anyway.

Very true Sharon. I think we all read to get taken away to a different world far from our own reality. And I have read heaps of forbidden/inappropriate relationships in my time. Maybe with the Me Too movement and current spot light on gender inequality it has made me think a little bit more about some of these issues. For some reason in this book it seemed a glaring problem. Maybe because Caitlyn had such obvious mental health issues.

This story did have a lot of problems for sure. Caitlyn would never take action against Adam. She would end up blaming herself if there were any problems. It is who she is.

You are right the AMA has guidelines for doctor/patient relationships. So do lawyers, police, and other positions of power. People are flawed and some don't follow the guidelines.

If I remember correctly, there was a study about doctor/patient relationships and 40% of the medical community said each case has to be judged individually. There was all kinds of rational behind the answer. 40% is a large number.

This is particular to the psychiatrist/patient relationship, not the general doctor/patient. The broader scope between other medical fields isn’t as problematic as this one given the precarious mental balance of the patient. It’s one where I’ve seen the toughest rulings. It’s just not done and when it is, the psychiatrist takes extra effort to hide the relationship. I believe the percentage would be much lower within the community for this type relationship.

I agree Jonetta. A relationship with your psychiatrist can be trouble. Look at Dr Alex Thorne. She is a good example of the worst that can happen.

Great example!!!

I just thought it was too fast and Adam should have immediately referred her to another therapist.

Sharon wrote: "I know a billionaire will never move next door and fall head over heels for me.."

Bummer!

Jonetta wrote: "Sharon, I’m with you there. I can suspend belief in fiction for the sake of a good story. The problem with this one is it rankled more because the story was problematic."

I agree, Jonetta. I can suspense my disbelief on a lot of things in this book - the MPD, the incest, the crazy family but the romance was a step too far for me.

Jonetta wrote: "I believe he knew and slept with her anyway.."

Yes, he did. He was also using her and thought she could be a psychopathic killer. This whole relationship was just twisted.

Sharon wrote: "I agree Jonetta. A relationship with your psychiatrist can be trouble. Look at Dr Alex Thorne. She is a good example of the worst that can happen."

Totally!

Lauren wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I know a billionaire will never move next door and fall head over heels for me.."

Bummer!"

I know. I say that every time I read about the billionaire falling for the secretary or waitress.

Sharon wrote: "I agree Jonetta. A relationship with your psychiatrist can be trouble. Look at Dr Alex Thorne. She is a good example of the worst that can happen."

I'm sorry. I don't know who Dr. Alex Thorne is. Is she from a book?

Hannah wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I agree Jonetta. A relationship with your psychiatrist can be trouble. Look at Dr Alex Thorne. She is a good example of the worst that can happen."

I'm sorry. I don't know who Dr. A..."

She is in another series we are reading DI Kim Stone

Sharon wrote: "Hannah wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I agree Jonetta. A relationship with your psychiatrist can be trouble. Look at Dr Alex Thorne. She is a good example of the worst that can happen."

I'm sorry. I don't..."

oh! Ok thanks!

Sharon wrote: "Hannah wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I agree Jonetta. A relationship with your psychiatrist can be trouble. Look at Dr Alex Thorne. She is a good example of the worst that can happen."

I'm sorry. I don't..."

So random, but one of my friends just recommended this series to me, and we are going to read it together. Just started First Blood and I'm really enjoying it so far.

Oh, Hannah. We are enjoying it SO much! The discussions for each book are in this group if both of you would like to lurk, join in or discuss between the two of you. Just search by book name or use the series directory in the Admin section for the folder links.

Hannah you will love the series.

You guys! That just made my day! Super excited to have some discussion to go along with my reading. Thanks!!

Hannah wrote: "So random, but one of my friends just recommended this series to me, and we are going to read it together. Just started First Blood and I'm really enjoying it so far."

Hannah, that series is SO good. I hope you enjoy it.