Gentle SPECTRUMS discussion

4 views
Buddies: Maureen Johnson > Except The Dying (1997)

Comments Showing 1-49 of 49 (49 new)    post a comment »
dateUp arrow    newest »

message 1: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Jun 27, 2021 06:57AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Different from most Canadians including my parents, I am sure; I do not watch the longstanding detective television series "Murdoch". I figured I would eventually obtain the DVD set and see it from the beginning. I caught one episode from the beginning years ago and loved it. I loved the little appearance by the actress who plays the mayor in "Good Witch".

Round about next week, Shirin, Kerri & I will read the first story by Maureen Jennings': "Except The Dying" and we welcome everyone. There are complaints about liking the novels less, for personalities and details differing from the beloved TV show. Mahap that will not be no problem for us.

I would like to add that in the eulogy of the great Howard Engel, Maureen Jennings counted herself as a fan, along with Ruth Rendell, and said she considered him a mentor to herself! The adorable Benny Cooperman in Howard's hometown series near Niagara Falls, is one of my special favourites. I invite you to see my review of "The Suicide Murders" for something fun, intelligent, and different.


message 2: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
Looking forward to this! I haven't seen the show either so it'll be nice to go into it without having a different version in my head to measure against. You mentioned the "Good Witch", which I've been thinking about watching. Have you seen much of it? If you have, would you recommend it?


message 3: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Jun 28, 2021 07:07AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
It is Howard Engel that I would love people to try. His work is so special. I will let me reviews do the talking.

"Good Witch" is always sweet and feel good. I am tired of it never showing the paranormal. Magic is implied too subtly, as of worrying about offending someone. I spell it without a "K" because little outcomes are of the universe alligning sort, not Wicca. I would enjoy plain Magick use but these really are wonderful feel good shows, if you know that up front.

They started as annual films, that I discovered on the satellite dish. They became a TV series. We cut back to save money for Spirit and no longer get their main channel. I can see reruns, which will include shows new to me. I did not follow it, even though I enjoy it. So much TV, films, and books. You can't choose when to watch, like people who download the torrent files or have Wifi based channels.

Shirin & I are starting "Shipwreck" today, who provided me with the PDF. I would love it if you can join us. It is short enough to include in this year's Canadian theme, even though I have to read from my PC at this desk. I will juggle read it with "Ghost Of James Bay", that I can bring to bed and outside. I will set-up a topic thread. It lets us to push back "Exit The Dying" by a few books, if that is all right. I always have a queue of non-Canadian books I am eager to jump into with joy, when the year has unwinded.


message 4: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
My copy of "Except The Dying" should be arriving tomorrow!


C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
I am glad, Kerri. If you obtain and read a "Shipwreck" PDF, naturally add your comments to that thread. I am awaiting Shirin telling me she is less busy, before adding to comments and I have dealt with crises at home anyway. I'll e-mail you soon but please don't hesitate to catch-up with me in e-mail about other things.

Let me clarify so I don't have to repeat this part in e-mail a second or third time, that captchas are nearly always a problem for slow speed internet users. I emphasize as strongly as I can, that I was lucky to get in the day they refreshed everyone's log-ins. I would like someone to please clarify if there is always a captcha at login now, or only if signing in doesn't go smoothly? I want to be forewarned.

Slow speed internet users often can't see captchas and get rejected by pages. When we do see them, like thankfully I did that sole time I needed to sign-in, it is rare, Kerri, that I can get the checkmark to work. I know you had trouble that day but I want to be clear that slow speed internet ISPs always have trouble checkmarking a captcha, if they see it and I was fortunate to get in. Slow speed internet members must avoid running into captchas at all costs and we need help warning Goodreads, who no longer offer e-mail addresses, to remove them for this reason.


message 6: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
I haven't had to to repeat the captcha login in about two weeks, and I log in each time I go onto Goodreads, so I don't think they've made it a standard thing. I understand what you mean about them being almost impossible to get past with slow speed internet. I do hope that Goodreads is aware of that as well.

My copy of "Except The Dying" arrived on Friday, so a day later than expected, but I'm pleased to have it with me, ready to start it when everyone else is ready!


C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
I am glad to be back, even though I was only off for half of a day. The rain we needed came on Monday. Crazily, thunder & lightening that I observed, short-circuited my dial-up modem as I was waiting for it to turn off! I had to phone the solitary store selling them, with the relief that they had a modem in stock and buy a new one again: five years going! It is our only internet: no smart phones, librairies; hardly any neighbours have it.

I can take slow but not an absence of getting on-line. There are fewer phone books, post office price pamphlets for me to work on parcels at home.... we are expected to look everything up on the internet. I cried in frustration when Ron got home from work but was relieved when I knew I could buy one. I have to stay off when it rains. I made a nice drive of it: saw the chiropractor, bought more minutes for my flip phone that thankfully still works (2G is supposed to stop working).

I mailed mail to certain friends (I am looking at you, New Zealand)! And yes, I bought new second-hand books. I scored a third Cleveland Amory book about his cat that I didn't know he wrote. Your note about the absence of captchas encouraged me and when I encountered a log-in last week or so, none popped up. There is my update.


message 8: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Jul 28, 2021 08:36PM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Okay, I hope everyone is in the habit of looking all the way up for new messages, since I divide long ones into their own topical comment boxes. Good evening, Kerri! and Shirin I am nearly finished "Animals And The Afterlife" by Kim Sheridan.

I will continue on with "Except The Dying" by Maureen Jennings tonight. Ladies, start your engines and jump in any time! Any conversations we are having here: "Jekyll & Hyde", Ian Rankin's books, "Shipwreck".... may certainly continue as long as we wish. As I clarified in my review of another fine Canadian, our very dear Howard Engel: he is the funny one. However, I hope to enjoy Maureen's beloved characters too in writing.


message 9: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
I will reply in full tomorrow when I'm on the computer, but I'm just leaving this to say I've seen that you are starting this tonight, so I will as well. Looking forward to it! :-)


C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
In keeping with every night I intended to make progress on the dragged out Kim Sheridan book, which was not presented the way I hoped; I fell asleep 7 pages from the end. I have not started Maureen Jennings yet but will tonight.


message 11: by S. (new)

S. ≽^•⩊•^≼ I'm not here yet | 134 comments Mod
I will start "Except The Dying" as well today. The short story was enjoyable, I hope we enjoy this one too. I get the book a few days ago, so I'll read it in Persian with you. Happy reading everybody!


message 12: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Jul 29, 2021 07:48AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Canadian authors translated into Persian? That is wonderful! Is it a physical book? Happy reading to both of you too!


message 13: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
I'm glad you were able to find another modem, though sorry that you had to buy yet another one. I've never understood why almost all information is online, with little regard to those that can't access it. When we were setting up something to do with our internet -- I can't remember what now -- the instruction booklet was a little sheet directing you to their website, which of course we didn't have the internet to access because that is what we were trying to set up! Very odd. I'm glad you were able to make an enjoyable day of the trip to get the new one though -- something positive out of it I suppose! And I look forward to the mail -- thank you! :)

I had an unexpectedly busy day yesterday, so have only read the Prologue so far, but I should be able to make some decent progress this afternoon. What little I have read I have enjoyed so far, an intriguing start to the book. I'll check in soon to see how both Carolyn and Shirin are finding it.


message 14: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Jul 31, 2021 06:37AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Hi Kerri. I am relieved because I wrote in e-mail or another place, that you read too fast and bumb me out, at how many books you have finished! I would love to know your routine. You can't only read at night like me. Audio books probably help by day, where you can do something else. I don't think we have spoken of music much yet but I know you love films and TV.

Thinking like a detective, a horsewoman who wears a medium shirt isn't inactive; doing nothing but holding a book in her lap. Although that sounds wonderful, from a non sporty person, haha. Thankfully, the distance to check our 4 gardens, pots, and flowerbeds is enough walking. I guess you just fit in more than I do, or audio books really boost you up. Then again, a lot of them are little pony books. I add in short stories myself, when my quota is looking low.

When you get a chance, I would love to hear your impressions of "Shipwreck" at that conversation. I think so far, you treated Shirin & I to a reply to our musings. I'll save most personal updating for when you continue by e-mail. I love having the personal things we share saved in letters in one place I can go back to, no matter if websites come and go. Your mail is simply a book (we need space!) and a card for Jimmy. Xoxoxoxo.

I hear you on technology being made too dependent but shifty all at once. You won't get me using Apple because I know PCs well (whereas someone not very computer savvy can move to another system they don't know in depth either; you know what I mean). But I hate the way they constantly force an upgrade eventually. I still have Windows 7, was looking for someone to give me a WIndows 8 CD to upgrade a little. I still want that.

I was told to not bother and to go for Windows 10. That would require someone with high-speed downloading the files for me, I am not paying $200 CDN for the CD. When I asked how much they would charge to do it, it was nearly the same. She asked about my computer specifications and it seems that our perfectly good PC with more harddrive space and RAM than we need, is too old to handle Windows 10. It would come with that damn operating system at about $700 CDN. Naturally, I would price check.

Can you imagine complications, if I had listened to the first guy and started upgrading, without anyone verifying our PC was suitable for it? As for your internet set-up instructions expecting you to have a second source of internet to read them: please complain. Companies have to stop being stupid and narrow-minded. I actually had one shop tell me a few years ago, to look on-line for modems. Are they kidding? I guess I could check now as a back-up. Higher-speed ISPs are still limited here. We hoped to skip to a new one this summer.


message 15: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Jul 31, 2021 07:12AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
I like to separate my subjects. May I please be assured everyone is in the habit of looking for additional updates, besides the latest post? Further to general conversation, here are a few thoughts on "Murdoch Mysteries". I fell asleep before page 100 but love this novel. I prefer that we only follow the hero because it feels like real life: understanding one viewpoint well and one character navigating the story, which allows readers to feel like it is ourselves. However, I am glad Maureen Jennings started the action quickly and introduced us to William Murdoch quickly.

I do picture him as Yannick Bisson's television character, besides a moustache, a handsome likeness to picture! But my glimpse of one show did not acquaint his personality or other characters much. Thus, his written beginnings are a fresh, open book for me. I like him! He and his senior office want to move up in his career but compassion for humanity as well as animals is there.

What is new is that he likes his job and team and has made a friend there, with whom he chats about bicycles. Wide readers like we are have noticed a lot of policemen who are tired of their jobs or who dislike a superior or colleague. I appreciate any difference from the sorts of traits that were too common. Different from most readers, I find that I can like and get into historical fiction if they are at least in an era of using telephones or motorized vehicles.

I won't say anywhere until I know where Shirin is. I wish you would add the percentage or page of where you left off before going to bed. I'll just praise that Maureen builds likeability of her character by adding William's attitude about his boardingrooms and hosts (he is pleased by all of it). By the time they showed him practicing a hobby in his rooms, I loved the guy. I laughed that Maureen implied William might have a sordid side and then found that it was sweet.

I am glad to confirm that comments about these novels not being as good because the characters aren't as lovable, merely derive from being fans of the television show. I am only a little put off that I know who William marries very late in the TV series and was told who he marries in the novels. I wonder if I would have preferred to be surprised by that, or if I am glad I won't be surprised by it. If we enjoy these novels and like the show even better in the future: that is a win.


message 16: by S. (new)

S. ≽^•⩊•^≼ I'm not here yet | 134 comments Mod
Yes, Carolyn, a translated physical book from a Canadian author! I got so excited when I saw there are translated till the fifth book. The translator mentions Maureen Jennings's books as professional as Poirot and Sherlock Holmes.

I currently reading chapter 2. I liked the quick start, and we start to know William Murdoch soon.
I didn't follow or watch the TV series to know what exactly will happen, but I saw it, and it's very easy to picture William Murdoch and Crabtree as their actors.
'compassion for humanity" is the first thing that we see from William Murdoch, and I'm happy you mention animals too.


message 17: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
I think with reading schedule, that I read quite a few YA or middle-grade aimed books makes the number I read each year higher, since they tend to read more quickly. The pony books are often less than 200 pages as well, so they never take long. And I've found the audiobooks really do have quite a boost, especially on a day that might be set aside for cleaning or something, and then you can get through hours of them in what used to feel almost like wasted time. I usually read when I eat as well, so that's several blocks each day more or less guaranteed! I think I might be a fast reader, though I'm not certain because it's hard to know how to compare that, but I always used be able to finish assigned reading quite quickly, without skimming or skipping.

The upgrades going beyond the computer itself is something I hate. My laptop that I've had for more than 10 years still works fine in terms of the computer itself, but an update I did a couple of years ago on it really slowed it down, which is why I tend to use our "family" computer instead. The companies want people to keep upgrading their equipment, but a MacBook is incredibly expensive and it's annoying that they don't make it easier to make them last as long as possible. It's the same with the smartphones, and when it happened with my last one I was only able to get a new one easily because my Nana's neighbour had recently gotten a new smartphone that she didn't like, so she gave it to me, which was lovely of her. It's good that the second person asked your computer details, but silly that the first person didn't. Is the $700 what it would cost to get a new computer or to make changes to your current one so it can handle to operating system?

May I please be assured everyone is in the habit of looking for additional updates, besides the latest post? -- Yes, I've been making sure to scroll up! Sometimes I manage to scroll past an update without realising, so I've been double-checking the last couple of days to be more sure. :)


message 18: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
I have just finished Chapter Twelve and I am really enjoying it so far. I won't detail my thoughts past the first 100 pages yet, until I know where everyone else is at, but I've been really pleased with how quickly things got underway and how much I like Murdoch. Although I haven't seen the show, my mental image of the character is influenced by the actor on the cover of the book, but since that's my only outside influence I have my own idea of voice and personality. Both Carolyn and Shirin have mentioned the compassion for humanity, and I am enjoying that as well. He has that practical side you would expect from a Detective, but he doesn't seem too jaded. Carolyn mentions that he likes his job, and I'm finding that refreshing. His issues stem from being stuck in his Acting Detective position, not the detective work itself. I'm only about half way through, but already I can see how he can easily carry an ongoing series.

I also really like when investigations are historical, because it feels fresher somehow. And when they want to delay information reaching places to keep the plot moving, it is more plausible in a time when communications were more difficult. For example it is taking a long time to contact the family of the dead girl, and the time and weather make that work well.

I really like the family that William boards with, and have a great deal of sympathy for Arthur. I winced a little when I realised they had a coal fire, because that certainly wouldn't help his lungs. I googled it and streptomycin comes up as an early antibiotic for tuberculosis and that wasn't developed until the 1940s. I love William for stretching himself a little to pay for two rooms as a way of helping out. I like Arthur's wife, and the way they contribute to the case. "...although Beatrice enjoyed hearing gossip, it was from an avid interest in humanity, not to revel in another's misfortune." -- I loved this description. It instantly gave me a clear idea of the kind of woman she is, and that I liked her!

I laughed that Maureen implied William might have a sordid side and then found that it was sweet.--- I laughed here as well. It was a well done moment!

The translator mentions Maureen Jennings's books as professional as Poirot and Sherlock Holmes -- that's so neat! So far I'm agreement with them! :)


message 19: by S. (new)

S. ≽^•⩊•^≼ I'm not here yet | 134 comments Mod
I currently reading chapter 14, finding myself so curious, so I think will finish it tonight.
"I also really like when investigations are historical, ..." I find it very interesting too. In another country and another time. :)
I like Arthur and his wife, too. He has a sharp mind, soon finds out about the dogs. I was suspicious of Mr. Quinn in the first scene. He was full of paradox.
I wonder after what happen to Ettie, how Alice can still be silent. She should now be frightened and tell Murdoch everything she knows.
Now we know Maureen Jennings's writing style. The story is not about Murdoch and what he sees. It's about everyone, It is nice that each person is beautifully described. So there is no wonder that we found "Shipwreck" more about the priest.


message 20: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 03, 2021 01:59PM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
I know I am in the minority for not usually liking historical fiction. I am saying that at least, we are in the time period of using telephones. I prefer stories in the 1950s onward, where we relate best of all to personalities, pastimes, and familiar rules or etiquette. Maureen Jennings is an exception because she is Canadian and the TV show I will buy later, looks like a lot of fun.

Also, at least "the olden days" are in Toronto, a wonderful city I have visited thrice. I am sick of English and American story settings and love anything somewhere else.

Shirin, I am glad you love multiple viewpoints, since this is what this novel entailed. Here again, I differ in wishing we would stick to William. I don't know if it was a good idea for Maureen to show us the bar scene before Alice left with a villain, even though it gave us a lot of information. William, our actual protagonist is the one who needs to know those things and I think it is a waste of time to show the reader. It feels more realistic to discover things along with William, which connects us more strongly because it feels like we are sharing his eyes and viewpoint.

I agree that Maureen's style is very good in describing what we need to know, with compassion that gets us caring about the characters and curious about the mysteries to answer! Yes, Ettie is not doing anyone any good by staying quiet. Sure, don't tell people in general because you don't know which people the criminals are. But I want to yell at people in every book: share what you know to police!

I wonder about Mr. Quinn too. He has some kind of racket with borrowed dogs, although Princess is his. He seems to care about dogs or pets, so I don't think there is a dog-fighting ring like in Ian Rankin's novel. A proper animal rights activist would not tolerate breeding either but maybe that is what it is. Today, too many people are obviously to the trouble it causes to obtain pets from breeders and stores, instead of adopting those who need homes from shelters and barn kittens and puppies. My guess is he is a nice guy who is breeding without a license.

Shirin, what does your last sentence mean? Is it that we have a whole series to hear about William, so the short story was focused on portraying the priest for a change? I like that. We do see William discussing his home origins.

He is a sweet person for loving to dance, cherishing his fiancée's picture, making sure the yelling dogs were all right, and for being willing to think like a little boy. When his feet were in the basin of water, didn't we all love him for making tidal waves like he did as a little boy? He even mentioned a ship. Was the one in "Shipwreck" Norweigian? I will add my own thoughts later. It is fun and rewarding to read something from each of you, my friends, yesterday and today.


message 21: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
I didn't get much read yesterday or the day before, so I'm just at the start of Chapter Fifteen. I should have time to read tonight, and will update my progress if I make any before I go to sleep.

I wonder after what happen to Ettie, how Alice can still be silent. She should now be frightened and tell Murdoch everything she knows. -- I was surprised that she kept on holding back information, as I would have thought Ettie's murder would be pretty strong motivation to speak up. My two theories are that either what Alice knows cannot be shared without implicating herself, and she doesn't trust Murdoch not to charge her while he tracks down the culprit, or that she thinks the repercussions of talking to the police will be greater than being murdered. After her conversation with Murdoch at the end of chapter 14, I am not sure if she shared everything or not. She's given a strong clue with the carriage information, but generalised enough that it may not help, which is frustrating.

Also, at least "the olden days" are in Toronto, a wonderful city I have visited thrice. I am sick of English and American story settings and love anything somewhere else. -- although I love both of those settings, especially because I have never been, and love to learn about them, I've found it brilliant to have this set in Toronto. I don't think I have read a historical novel set there before, and I have enjoyed every moment of this. I like the varying viewpoints, and one of the things I've found interesting is we get to learn about what life was like for different classes -- Alice, Ettie and co are quite poor and their life contrasts so much with the Rhodes family. William doesn't seem to be wealthy, but he has a secure job and a decent place to live. I like how Maureen has given a glimpse into more than one set of circumstances. I suppose that is why detectives are often such good characters, because it makes sense that they would meet many people.

Sure, don't tell people in general because you don't know which people the criminals are. But I want to yell at people in every book: share what you know to police! -- this made me laugh. I do that as well! I understand that she doesn't trust him because he profession is illegal, but I worry that she might not survive due to holding back.

I have more than 100 pages left to read, but already I am liking how the tension is building, and how my suspicions are jumping around. I don't trust any of the Rhodes family (except maybe the mother) or their butler and his wife, but I'm not sure if they are guilty of murder, or just know something about it.

Also, did I interpret this correctly in thinking that Ettie's drink had been spiked with something, after what she said before they tried to inject her with the opium?


C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Guys, Ettie is the living friend. We know she and Alice were guilty of denuding a body and I think once William gave Ettie a way out of using her name, she came clean. As William aptly queried: "Is that all?" It was enough for Alice to get killed for, although William does not know she also recognized the creep in the carriage, the second man who appeared when she left the bar.

Kerri, when you said "you thought the little girl was nice in other ways" and you think "the USA and England are nice settings"; no one would disagree. But those are stating the obvious. I think you understand what I mean, that nearly every book in the world is set in those two places. I am not shy about saying I crave seeing novels anywhere else. Anywhere. It isn't because I have been to each. If anything, that gives me a special connection to those countries. But book horizons need to broaden. :)

Certainly, everyone also loves to see different walks of life in novels. However, they don't need to become narrators. I never like multiple points of view for the reasons already shared. Sharing one set of eyes if natural to life and it lets us feel like we are the protagonist. We can discover everything we need through him. Fair enough if you enjoy the opposite but you must have other reasons. Showing us other people is usually done through one protagonist. Anne Perry does it exceptionally well, through the eyes of her policeman, Thomas Pitt and his wife, Charlotte. I always feel antsy to get back to the main character, or the modern storyline if one applies.

I count this as another rare instance, along with Anne Perry (who additionally portrays England - eek!) of me liking historical fiction. Actually, because Maureen is writing of old times barely succeeding Canada's confederation, I hate all the English expressions being used instead of Canadian ones, like speaking of "tea" as if it is a meal instead of a drink. We don't do that. I groan every time anyone says "Do you want this food for your tea", as if tea is a kind of meal. It isn't nowadays. Not here.

I think you might get an idea of how I feel about being recognized for our own independent culture, by living close to Australia. I imagine that like the USA constantly being mentioned in the news and portrayed in books, on TV, in films; maybe your countrymen too often feel like saying: "Hello, we exist as well". Whenever I catch Ron watching MORE American news, as if we haven't had enough of it, I prompt: "What is the news in our country today"? We have a lot of huge issues no one hears bubkis about. God bless authors for finally portraying us and I am glad you are enjoying it. :)

I myself am only over 221 pages. Ron & I binged on a "Jack Ryan" blu-ray TV season on holiday Monday and I was searching book deals too long yesterday. Today is our 21 year couples anniversary! We are common-law rather than traditionally married but we have sure worked and crawled, to make it here. When Ron is home, we will exchange cards and play a boardgame. That is a rare treat. Hopefully some of our many games are okay for two players.

I think it is safe to play detective, with us at the same place. I too, feel that everyone but Donalda is guilty in her family; not the stableboy either. There is a clue William doesn't know. Maureen showed it once and hopes readers will think it is a grand denouement later. Therese doesn't read. The nosy housekeeper likely fabricated the note, which is why she burned it without Donalda's permission. Therese disliked her and wanted to get away from her, as well as an unnamed assaulter. It might have been the housekeeper's husband but Owen seems the type. The housekeeper often told her husband they were lucky to have the job and shouldn't blow it. Therese never said she was going home. That story came from the housekeeper. Do you ladies remember that?

Is there is a reason for that shady couple to protect Owen, as if they were in on anything together? If not, I guess her husband is guilty. But which woman would allow assault on any person, especially caused by her husband?

We might have numerous motives and criminals. Let's see. The housekeepers didn't want Therese to leave but didn't want Donalda to know why she did flee. Are they sponging money or up to something with Owen?

The doctor has a secret far in his past but helpfully went to the police about Therese. He doesn't have the disposition or motive for it to have been a ruse. If someone caught Therese in a carriage, what were they afraid of her telling her church or anyone else? The name of the assaulter? She would have run away, not entered the carriage, if it were he. Alice and the newsboys witnessed no forced passenger. What else did they think she might reveal or overturn?

I think she was going to report it and ask for help. She had no fear of losing her position: she left it but had a rare understanding and friendship with Donalda. Why did she not tell her instead of someone else? It must have been Owen. I am dubious it Donalda's husband. What clues do you two mull over? Yes, I think they tried to drug Alice before she left the bar. Identifying a criminal makes it easy to unearth the motive.

I wonder if her husband's secret might that he is gay but Donalda would be understanding about the differing natures of orientation. His secret might be that he or she produced Owen with someone else, or he fathered a different child. That is all of my sleuthing. I like doing this, well before we know the answers. Sincerely, Carolyn.


message 23: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 04, 2021 06:47AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
P.S. I notice I do not know enough about Iran or New Zealand and am relieved to be learning about New Zealand. I am grateful for the books I have that are all about it, Kerri. Not only because they seem to be wonderful books. I had read Dorothy Eden and Mignon Warner but I will not name the two places in which they set their novels instead. They have received quite enough attention. ;>

Shirin, I would love to read stories of Iran that have nothing to do with oppressed women; the only thing most people know. My Mother gave me many years ago, which I did not read yet, "Not Without My Daughter". Of course we want to respect a difficult time that two people escaped. On the other hand, many people think it does not show enough nice things about Irainian culture and the country. I would love to read stories that aren't "hard life" stories, or political.

This is the same reason I love the novels and fiction coming out of the prairies: Alberta is included but mainly Saskatchewan and Manitoba. We used to be all about "the hard life of the pioneers, farmers, or hunters making these places homes". Now you can read fun mystery and other fictional novels in our environments. Saskatchewan to my west, which largely consists of farmland and oil fields, is shown by Gail Bowen via its two cities. Some mysteries are better than others but I love her modern city life perspective. "Olden days" books about the prairies are all we used to have. It was time to upgrade! :)


message 24: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 04, 2021 07:36AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
I notice after I replied to Shirin yeterday, that I was missing a paragraph of Kerri's first entry, which was a great one as well. You highlighted how much you like William's hosts and that they are good people. I love them too. They are curious out of care for humanity and interest in puzzles.

Did the book say they had children or how old the couple is? Tuberculosis might give an impression of being elderly but Arthur might not be. I wonder why they call each other "Mother" and "Father", if they weren't parents.

I guess it is universally know (except to certain American political parties) that coal is terrible on the environment. It did not occur to me to perceive it as bad for health. If Arthur should avoid it for a respiratory illness, it is too bad they didn't notice that in 1895. Thank you for your observation. Also, it is only my guess that William is about 25. How about the two of you?

My parents used charcoal bricks the rare time we barbequed on little units when we were kids. We occasionaly went to a park that provided grills built into concrete. Barbeques have been butane for so many years, the tank we have probably would not be accepted for exchange. As vegetarians, we don't use it much.

I love that William's hosts don't stand on much ceremony and invite friendship with him. I love seeing the three of them together. How cute is it, that William's ticket to holding a woman soemtime soon is good, clean, dance lessons? We just love him more and more, don't we? I feel a blu-ray search coming.

Kerri, I asked in your comment box of your future "The Gargoyle" review, if you own that book. Andrew Davidson is from Pinawa, Manitoba; a small town I have seen once, that isn't far from here.


message 25: by S. (new)

S. ≽^•⩊•^≼ I'm not here yet | 134 comments Mod
"Shirin, what does your last sentence mean?" I mean this wasn't all about William. Arthure, Ettie, Mrs. Rhodes, and even Mr. Quinn all are described and involve, like the priest in the short book.

"He is a sweet person for loving to dance, cherishing his fiancée's picture, making sure the yelling dogs were all right" Yes, exactly. He is a lovely conscientious person. "tidal waves" was so funny. He looks like a little boy. :)
Yes, He mentioned a ship, twice, and I suppose was the one in "Shipwreck.
"I don't trust any of the Rhodes family." it's true, it seems all of them are lying about something.
"I never like multiple points of view" I always like it, remind me that things are not exactly what we see. Especially when one happen or dialogue retell by two persons, I understand how misunderstanding happens. Also, I see your point of view can be quite right, Carolyn.

"Did the book say they had children or how old the couple is?" No, I didn't read such things and I wonder why they call "Mother" and "Father" each other! For being respectful maybe!!

Today I finished the book. I will write about it tomorrow more and we can discuss it.

Carolyn, I don't recommend the political books of my country. We don't have mystery books much. But, We have a lot of beautiful poems that I know they translated to English, sometimes as stories. One of the famous ones is "Shirin & Farhad", a love story written by Nizami 800 years ago. So, I recommend reading the older stories by Iranian authors. Hahaha, my name came from this story. :)

Happy 21 year couples anniversary! Dear Carolyn. <3


C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Hi Shirin! Thank you for the anniversary wishes! I will tell Ron, who often hears me talk of my dear friends, Shirin and Kerri. Even my Dad, still in the hospital recovering, I phoned today so he could wish Ron & I happy anniversary. Then, since he & my Mom loved "Murdoch Mysteries" on TV for years, I said "Did you know there are books" and he didn't either. I told him "Shirin is buddy reading it with me from Iran and Kerri from New Zealand". He loved this.

Yes, I was saying it would be nice to read anything from Iran that is not about politics or the difficulties of women's equality. It is a dictatorship, is it not? Or can you vote a new leader these days?

Yes, poems turned into stories, or straight stories would be wonderful! Especially if they are about your name, Shirin! I mighit not like to read a made-up book about 1800 but you see, I love reading books authentically written in 1800. If I can afford it, I will look for these. Kerri for my birthday last year, gave me 3 special New Zealand books and the one I finished so far is beautiful. I must catch-up on reviews soon.

You and Kerri are very right that multiple viewpoints give readers more information. But is that how life works? Also, if I get to know one person well, I hate to stop following him and feel impatient to read pages where I get used to someone else. I want to follow one person and obtain information while he or she discovers it, you know?

I prefer modern fiction because it represents our times properly (like 1800 actually composed in 1800). And do we want to feel that all the action and wonders are over in our generation? Don't we want to feel we can discover a secret cave, treasure, mystery of life, or a fun adventure now? I don't want to feel like the good times are over and we have to make-up a fictional story. Also, most of those are about wars and I do not believe it is right for anyone to think wartime is romantic. It was horrible for the people in it. God willing, may we never see such a thing.

I am not going to say too much because I heard one thing about the series that is different from the television shows. But on one hand, I don't think a married couple calls themselves "Mother / Father", unless they have kids. However, I have a reason to believe that Arthur & his wife are not old enough to have grown-up kids, which I can't discuss until we reach whichever book tells us about it in the series.

Speaking of holding back: did I get any mysteries right? Are you smiling about it, Shirin? Congratulations for finishing the novel like you thought! You must have read 100 pages right through the night! I hardly read last night because I was on our slow internet too long, looking for book deals, as I said this morning. The day before, Ron & I treated ourselves to the "Jack Ryan" television series, season 1. I love John Krasinski from "The Office" and he loves Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan novels. So less reading lately and tonight is our anniversary, for spending time together. Tomorrow!

Oh yes, I thought of a cheeky thing to ask you, which i was joking about with Ron. How on Earth do you read Persian, with those letters looking alike!? I know many languages but at least the Greek alphabet is used, haha. It is impressive, my friend. You know, I read this summer "Worth Fighting For" by the wife of Patrick Swayze, Lisa Niemi. They had two horses with your name! One Shirin and another, Shirin Jewell. :) Love, Carolyn.


message 27: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
Happy anniversary, Carolyn! I hope you enjoyed the day. 21 years is certainly an impressive achievement! :)

I didn't get in much reading time yesterday or the day before, but managed to finish the book late last night during the ad breaks when I was watching the Olympic Showjumping. The jumping was great, and the book kept me awake during the pauses, which was good! I really liked the way everything came together -- some of my theories were correct, others were not! I like when there's a mix like that, so I can feel pleased with some aspects of my deduction skills, while also being able to be surprised by some things too.

I'm not sure I managed to muddle up Ettie and Alice, but I'm certain on who is who now and which one is dead!

But which woman would allow assault on any person, especially caused by her husband? -- I have read about many woman who blame the victim of the assault rather than the perpetrator, so it could be that, but I would also imagine that getting fired as a butler for impregnating a young maid would make it challenging to find another job, and as a pair they seemed determined to cling to their posts.

Your theories about the Doctor were similar to mine, Carolyn, especially the one about having had a child about someone else. One of the reveals about him I was expecting, the other I wasn't and I felt a great deal of sympathy for Donalda. She was one of favovourite characters, after Joe the stableboy.

But on one hand, I don't think a married couple calls themselves "Mother / Father", unless they have kids. However, I have a reason to believe that Arthur & his wife are not old enough to have grown-up kids, which I can't discuss until we reach whichever book tells us about it in the series. -- this sounds intriguing. I'm looking forward to reading on and finding out more about them. I loved this couple and would love to learn more about them. I hadn't thought that they might be younger than they appear, but it makes sense. I'm not certain on Murdoch's age, I don't think it said. I'm picturing late twenties up or early thirties, but I would like a future book to let me know if I am right!

I do not believe it is right for anyone to think wartime is romantic. It was horrible for the people in it. God willing, may we never see such a thing. -- that's an excellent point. I've read a few books that veer into romanticising war and I don't like it. I understand romance can be depicted in those times, but war itself shouldn't be depicted as romantic.

I'm glad you enjoyed the "Jack Ryan" TV show. I'd seen a trailer and couldn't decide if I would enjoy it or not, but I will give it a go if I get the chance to watch it. I haven't read the novels it's based on, but I do like John Krasinski and it would be interesting to see him in something so different from "The Office".

I think you might get an idea of how I feel about being recognized for our own independent culture, by living close to Australia. I imagine that like the USA constantly being mentioned in the news and portrayed in books, on TV, in films; maybe your countrymen too often feel like saying: "Hello, we exist as well"-- Yes, we have that too. Australia can often overshadow things, and there is a rivalry between the countries as well, sometimes friendly, sometimes less so!

I have a few initial thoughts about the novel now that I have finished it, which I will put next.

Spoilers for entire novel from here:
Although I wasn't surprised that the doctor had a mistress, or that he was the one sleeping with the prostitutes, I hadn't expected that he would have given his wife gonorrhea. How sad that that affected not just her second pregnancy, but made her infertile too. I can see why she would be unable to forgive him for that.

I was glad that Quinn's dog related crimes weren't too dastardly --- not that I approve of stealing dogs of course, but at least they were being well cared for and not used for dog-fighting or anything. And it seems the intention is to return them to their family, not sell them onwards, so I took comfort in that!

I do have a question though, because I think I may have missed something when I was reading, perhaps because it was so late, but why exactly did Canning and Shepcote kill Therese? Was it just for the thrill of it?


C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Thank you for all the anniversary wishes, my friends. It was a very nice time with Ron. We decided to try two new boardgames we had bought second-hand a few years ago; nothing bothering with rules and game pieces but trying questions out on each other. We love creative thinking regarding music and general knowledge and we both did well.

We exchanged cards from lovely stock we already have at home. We both honoured Spirit & Marigold in our cards, wishing they were here, which meant a lot to both of us. Marigold has only been gone a month and although ascended 5 months before, Spirit was only laid to rest 2 months ago. Too much too young, we needed a day that was good for us. Dad is better too. Will share most of those things in e-mails with you both.

In the end, I see why you gave 4 stars, Kerri, even though I am in love with the literary William Murdoch just like Shirin. I felt a 5 star enthusiasm and investment. Endings is where some authors lose me, with convaluted or unbelievable motives, or behaviour that doesn't seem natural for the psychology of the person. Maureen's first mystery is very good but I have criticisms.

Worst of all, you know my mysophonia type trouble, don't you, whereupon one of the worst triggers is whistling with teeth. Did we need that whole fucking part about horses; which would irritate me, much less horses!!!! It was entirely superfluous to the plot, which was worse. The book had to be very good after that to receive 5 stars.

Historical accuracy was off for me as well, even though I suspect there might be Canadians who would argue, unless they listen to my details carefully. Maureen and her consultant, the late Eric Wright of whom I am a fan, are proud Canadians who were born in England. That makes a difference to the impression given that Canadians call "tea" anything but the mere drink itself. I knew my broad variety of relatives and other elders, who were the first generation born here. We do not have a tea time and never refer to "tea" as one of the meals of the day.

Few of my relatives care for tea, some offer it as an option to coffee. Yes, a lot of Canadians adore tea, just like it is popular in every part of the world nowadays but only as a choice of drink. You did not find the whole city of Toronto, the way Maureen made it look like yet another setting in England, "going home for tea". No one did that; not as a ritual or a meal. If you can name anyone who referred to "tea" as a meal, it was because they were from England. I think it would be easy for Maureen to know or research that a lot of Canadians (or English immigrants) liked tea but to spin her interpretation too far into the custom from her upbringing and Eric's.

It seems like a small thing to criticize but I said previously that book settings, especially historic ones, portray England and the United States too often and this book, finally placed in Canada, sounded too much like England as well. The super affluent had maids, servants, and butlers in that period but the emphasis on classes petered out quickly here. There were, however, boardinghouses aplenty.

I briefly worked in a heritage house museum and learned enough about it to give tours. :) I rocked at it, the short time I did it. I only left because the pay, week-end hours, and manager were a bitch. I let someone on the board and another on the staff know her comportment was why I was leaving and soon after, she was no longer there. Oops. ;>

I should say that I finished the novel last night. I only had a few chapters to go when I fell asleep again. I loved the novel. However, Kerri being unclear about Therese's death and for me, her abduction entirely, should not be. Everyone being guilty of something in their personal life is one way to divert us with red herrings. Too many being guilty of something in the crimes of assault, abduction, drugging, and murder is convaluted. We know the motives and opportunities were written poorly if we are unconvinced.

Do you see the mystery as we do, Shirin? Therese was assaulted by John Foy. I think Therese should have known she had an unusually good ear and it was obvious that Donalda disliked the Foys anyway. She would have found a sympathy and action for reporting John. I don't think Maureen got her silence right, because these werent the usual circumstances of worrying that you were reporting a beloved employee to an unsympathetic ear. She & Donalda were friends and her boss confided in her profoundly. However, Therese chose to get herself out of the attacks and at least see her church leader for help. Another intelligent alternative.

Along the way, Mr. Shipley and his stupid coachman Cannon picked her up. This rings untrue too. There was supposedly no struggle, so did they offer her a ride to her destination? That was something unusual to offer to a maid. I think she would have declined and carried on. Had they been forceful, she was in public and she was determined about her goal. They smuggled her into the Yeoman club where women aren't allowed and drugged her.

She was not murdered. She died because she ran into the snow and froze after she passed out from the opium. That was sad and unnecessary. Because Alice mentioned witnessing it, she was killed. A newspaper boy or two witnessed it as well. Wasn't Mr. Shipley their mentor, the newspaper owner? Another mistake. If he knew them as well as he said, they have eyes and ears everywhere. He should have interrogated those working on the street where his carriage had stopped.

Why did his coachman have control over him and his Daughter, who happens to be Owen's fiancee, Harriet? Did he say he would reveal the abduction and drugging on Therese? Wouldn't most people who were newspaper magnates say "No one would take your word against mine"? How did he manage to drug him and Harriet? Then Mr. Shipley dies of an overdose but we find out so subtly, we have to pay attention for that to be clear. What say you, ladies?


message 29: by S. (new)

S. ≽^•⩊•^≼ I'm not here yet | 134 comments Mod
Carolyn, thank you for letting me know about your conversation with your Dad. I wish him the best and a quick recovery. I understand that the Persian alphabet looks confusing. :) You know, we write from the right, so when for the first time want to write English, should start with the left side and it is strange. Try to write from the right, even without the Persian alphabet, it's very odd and will make you laugh. :) Now I want to read "Worth Fighting For" haha.

"It was entirely superfluous to the plot, which was worse." Again, it seems I lost something in translated version!!!

"why exactly did Canning and Shepcote kill Therese? Was it just for the thrill of it?" I think that was just an accidental drugged and freezing.
"Therese chose to get herself out of the attacks and at least see her church leader for help. Another intelligent alternative." Yes, this was a good decision. Although as you mentioned, she could tell Donalda too.
I think Mr. Shipley was probably under coachman's control and was drugging that he couldn't think properly right about the children who work on the street.


message 30: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 07, 2021 01:10PM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Hm, that is a good point, Shirin. Maybe Mr. Shipley was a drug addict. Maybe Mr. Canning threatened to advertise that, at a time when maybe Canadians worried about reputations, instead of standing up for themselves against blackmailing. However, I found that whole class attitude too English sounding rather than Canadian, attributed to an English born authoress.

Yes, Therese's freezing was accidental due to the drug. But why did they abduct her in the first place? What a needless loss of life for a stupid, criminal impulse. I really believe Therese should have run away then, not after she was at the Yeoman club; unless they lied and said they were giving her a ride to the church. Wasn't it close enough, if it is where William dedeuced Therese was going?

I don't see "Shirin & Farhad" but another that seems to be famous: "Layla & Majnun" possibly misspelled as "Laili". I see two books about Nizami: "The Great Azerbaijani Poet" https://www.awesomebooks.com/book/978... and "Treasury Of The Mysteries" https://www.awesomebooks.com/book/978... which might contain "Shirin & Farhad".

Are you familiar with the 1980s to 2000s film star, Patrick Swayze? He went to Heaven in 2009 from pancreatic cancer and lived 2 years, instead of the months most people get. He & his writer / dancer wife, Lisa Niemi, persisted in qualifying for drug trials, healthy, and happy living to prolong his life and it worked. He filmed a whole TV series called "The Beast" on week-days, while having chemotherapy on week-ends. As a kid, I loved him in "Ghost", "City Of Joy", "Point Break", and "Dirty Dancing".

It is enjoyable to read Patrick's autobiography first, "The Time Of My Life", which is very little about pancreatic cancer and mostly about living. Lisa's book continues where he left off but Patrick is alive in almost that whole book too, which is a nice surprise because it is said to be about overcoming grief. It helped me a lot regarding Marigold and I hope to write a review worthy of that helpful experience soon.

You see, Marigold lived more than a year longer than doctors expected. I know in my heart it is from loving each other so well, the heathfulness of going outside everyday and sitting wherever she wants in the grass and among the trees. Coming inside at night to cuddle. We tried alternative healing, like energy medicine and a herb called "Essiac".

I thought of Marigold immediately, because Patrick went back to normal and had unbelievable energy and enthusiasm, by working on the TV show and audio recording of his book. Sitting in a bed is no good unless you need to rest temporarily. Having something to do that you enjoy keeps your spirits up. I hope Dad goes home soon. One of us 3 talks with him by phone everyday. Thank you for wishing him well, Shirin.


message 31: by S. (new)

S. ≽^•⩊•^≼ I'm not here yet | 134 comments Mod
Carolyn, I'm happy you find these, I didn't see English versions. Khosrow and Shirin, Shirin and Farhad are the same stories. When I checked for Nizami's poetry in English, Khosrow and Shirin were translated. Although Layla and Majnun is a very beautiful love story too.
I'm happy you enjoyed this book and find it helpful. Waiting to see your full review about it. I don't know Patrick Swayze but, I liked to read his positive autobiography.


message 32: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 08, 2021 09:04AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Good, Shirin, maybe I can find "Shirin & Khosrow". It looks like one of the names that apppeared in my search at Awesome Books, my favourite book source that still works on dial-up internet connections. They only charge $5.00 CDN postage for your whole order of books. Better World Books gives free postage but has raised the price for Canadians too high, selling in US dollars too. Amazon Canada is hit & miss on good prices for new and used goods. I watch for the best prices. :) I hope the biography and sample books contain your story and more.

What is your opinion of the memoir "Not Without My Daughter"? My Mom gave it to me many years ago to warn me to be careful in foreign countries and also to show how strong a Mother's love is. However, I do not like to read sad or hard stories, even if the ending is good. I told my Mom that I appreciated her gift and asked if she minded, that my reading taste is very different from the life struggles she liked to read about. She understood but now that she is gone, I feel like I should read her gift.

It shows negative sides to Irainian laws and some people but I think it shows a lot of good. Many people helped the woman and her Daughter escape. I will read with an open mind that the whole country is not like that; the same we can say of any country.

I answered you in detail on my review of "The Time Of My Life", which I am honoured you loved enough to become interested in the book! I will review Lisa's book soon but it is emotional because of course, I thought all about Spirit & Marigold when I read it. I want the writing to be right.

It intersects a little with another wonderful autobiography and person, Rob Lowe, both of whom Kerri & I admire. When Rob mentioned that he & Patrick got their start in the same two films, I already had Patrick's book and was excited to read it next. Now I am thinking about them fondly and watching their films. Rob overcame alcoholism, which was my interest at the time but he didn't write much about it. He gives us the best look I have ever seen, at what the television and film industries are like and how they change.


message 33: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
If you can name anyone who referred to "tea" as a meal, it was because they were from England. -- this is interesting and I'm glad you pointed it out because I wouldn't have picked up on that. So it makes sense that Donalda would speak like that, and maybe her son since he might imitate her, but not the other characters in the book. Good spotting!

I briefly worked in a heritage house museum and learned enough about it to give tours. -- I can imagine you would have been very good at that! :)

Along the way, Mr. Shipley and his stupid coachman Cannon picked her up. This rings untrue too. There was supposedly no struggle, so did they offer her a ride to her destination? That was something unusual to offer to a maid. -- this was my main sticking point, and I'm still unsure about a few points of that, mainly why they bothered and why she went with them. Of course by the time she was drugged she had no say, but prior to that, getting into the carriage at all seems odd. Perhaps she trusted Shepcote because he was a public figure with a good reputation?

One thing I did like, once you both cleared it up for me earlier is that the initial death is a manslaughter which is interesting. Would they have intended to let her live if she hadn't run away? I don't know much about the effects of opium, but it's possible if she had lived she wouldn't recall anything that happened.

I think Shirin's point about Canning holding the information he has about Shepcote over him -- the drugs and also that his public image was a façade. And the crimes he (Canning) committed are so linked with Shepcote that I suppose if one of them were caught, they both would be, so they became too bound up together. Did Canning actually want to marry Harriet, or was that just a pretense to get her to drink? Although I disliked Shepcote quite early on when you realise that his story that he tells the boys is more false than true, I was still surprised by just how unpleasant he actually was. Much as I don't like people who falsely portray themselves, there is a big difference between that and all of his criminal activities!

I am glad that you have found a lot in Lisa Niemi's book helpful, Carolyn. I hope your Dad is still doing well! :)


message 34: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 15, 2021 09:09AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
I am glad to have your input, Kerri and it will be helpful to hear Shirin's again to understand everything. I think we three think some aspects of the plot were written weakly and don't work out. Others, we need to delve into to understand. You both have given me more think about, which is the gift of reading in tandem. Is there a word like "tandem" that means triplets? :)

Unless I forgot details, I believe Mr. Shipley only revised personal details about his Mom, as is his right. He really was a newsboy and did buy his company from the ground up. He knew the cold, wet nights and did the work. I think where we get the sense of falseness is in his present day prosperity. Should any child earn pennies, work long hours, lack sets of clothes and shoes, and crawl under signs for shelter if he really cared? I think we sense that if he cared as much as he says, he could shell out for higher pay, shorter hours to go around more employees, and better lives; isn't that right?

I don't recall anything to hide except his Mom's demeanour, which he would not have revealed to an employee. Donalda befriended Therese but Mr. Shipley seems like a more traditional Lord of the manner. However, you and Shirin are right about hiding the opium addiction. Maybe that was it but would he let his Daughter be in jeapardy of having anything to do with the scumbag?

Everyone thought Harriet was going to marry Owen, didn't we? Dirtbag Cannon having any interest in Harriet was dumped on us at the end. It was not constructed well, unless surprising us was Maureen's idea of twist. This ill-fitting nonsense is exactly why I wish the trend for twists would be ditched, in favour of smooth stories that are woven well.

Dear me, you don't mean to say Therese would have lived if she hadn't escaped. They might have killed her, whether or not opium created memory lapse. She was aware enough that she felt that she was in danger. Because of the stupid housekeeper's husband, she was already escaping assault and must have been terrified of being in danger of that again.

Another error occurs to me, unless you two can think of a story around it. Not so much Mr. Shipley but Dirtbag Cannon; if he was so worried about such stretches as Alice and Ettie recognizing his carriage; why did they not pursue Therese after she ran? She was alone on the street if no one saw her collapse in time to save her from freezing. Unless they were drugged out of their minds too.

I hope Maureen did better with endings after her first story. Her characterization is really memorable and endearing. I love that aspect enough that I ordered "Under The Dragon's Tail". :) Kerri, I have an inkling that you will fall in love with William and his stories enough to become a fan of the television show. It seems to be more about the compassion and art of solving mysteries than violent or criminal aspects.

Being in Canada, the show is on a satellite dish channel several times a day. Now that we three are sharing the original books together, I smile and think of you two every time I see "Murdoch Mysteries" on the channel list. I force myself not to watch it, which is manageable because they are airing well ahead of the first season of 2008. It has to be good, if it is still going this many years; unusually successful for any television show.

The theme song thrills me, which ends ahead of a show I like to watch week-days, called "Call The Midwife". The theme song sounds modern and mysterious at the same time, which makes me certain that I will have to buy "Murdoch Mysteries" as soon as we are done reading the original series.

I find myself relieved and smiling that my point about not capturing historic Canada quite right is trusted and appreciated. I feared an argument about our many tea drinkers, which is different from the too-English setting that was projected. You both must have seen stories in which you could tell that the storyteller was not raised in your countries. We are very proud to claim Eric and Maureen. I am saying that where we grew up stays with us. I hope the rest of the books feel distinctly Canadian.


message 35: by S. (new)

S. ≽^•⩊•^≼ I'm not here yet | 134 comments Mod
Dear Carolyn, I believe reading every book may be a gift especially when they are gifts from someone very dear. I didn't read "Not Without My Daughter", and I think it's a little harsh about Iranian culture in older times.
I don't read many biographies, but I like to read there few you mention them. I should open a new tag for memories. :)

"I disliked Shepcote quite early on when you realise that his story that he tells the boys is more false than true," Good point! He was so hypocritical and as Carolyn mentioned, he had could help boys with works hours and payment.

"would he let his Daughter be in jeapardy of having anything to do with the scumbag?" I don't think he wanted to put his daughter in danger nor married to a coachman. Its look was just something that Cannon said when he was angry. Like a threat.

"if he was so worried about such stretches as Alice and Ettie recognizing his carriage; why did they not pursue Therese after she ran?" Alice started to talk, That's why Ettie was worried that the killer will come after her too. maybe they didn't want to kill them in the first place. But, after reward and seeing Alice who was talking around, decided to kill them both.
Well, I hope better Maureen too. Then we wouldn't need to solve so many questions. :)


message 36: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 19, 2021 01:10PM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Shirin, I was saying that there was no lie about Mr. Shipley working hard as a newspaper boy. He only obfuscated the details about his Mom; family privacy I believe he had a right to preserve.

Yes, I know the coachman worried about Alice and Ettie identifying his carriage. What I was saying is if he killed over a little threat like that (a lot of carriages were brown and a lot of horses were light), why did he not chase Theresa out of the men's club? There was no one else in the street, or she would not have frozen. I think that was a mistake on Maureen Jennings' part.

On this subject I am sad. I have finished reading two histories of Winnipeg school girls killed because someone did not find them in time. My Mom had the story Candace Derksen's 1984 abuduction and I found a PDF of Barbara Stoppel's attack in 1981. If police had acted sooner, or someone had known or chanced to look in on them sooner, they would be a little over 50 years-old today. Candace left Earth at only 13 (unsolved) and Barbara at 16 (solved in 1999 but the criminal could not be prosecuted).

About TV, on a happy tone, I admit I have watched the last half hour of "Murdoch Mysteries" two days in a row! In Canada, it airs on CBC every hour and I avoided it for a long time! The theme song is compelling and my interest with the two of you friends, has grown! If only seasons 1 to 15 weren't $200 CDN, I hope to have the DVDs soon. The show airing presently are from 2019. The new season starts September 13, a delicious plot about a son! I will try not to watch them! Today's episode's second half was full of humour and sexy, including sex hinted humour. Naughty! ;>

Ah yes, I remember a funny observation I want to make. We can think of no one but the dear, handsome, gifted Yannick Bisson to be William Murdoch. However, I observed yesterday that he has very central Canadian speech, like mine. He is from Montréal, Québec; easily assumed by his last name but he is clearly an Anglophone. Ah, I am reading that he moved to Toronto, Ontario as a teenager which is our explanation why.

Kerri, you have heard me on video. Our speaking is what the world calls having no accent. See interview footage of our great folk singer, Anne Murray, to hear what someone from Nova Scotia sounds like. A recent example is when she introduced Jann Arden, into the Canadian Music Hall Of Fame for this year's "Juno Awards". It is subtle but notice the way anyone east of Québec says their Rs. There is a Nova Scotia animal rescue TV show called "Hope For Wildlife". Hope & Anne say her Rs the same way. I think their Rs are more pronounced and mine & Yannick's are flatter.


message 37: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 19, 2021 01:13PM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Girls, I hope you are obtaining copies of "Under The Dragon's Tail" quickly! I have explained that it is hard to avoid "Murdoch Mysteries" in Canada with the CBC and perhaps other television stations airing a variety of reruns every hour. Today, I am daring to watch a whole 2019 show from the beginning! Eeek!


message 38: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
I have ordered a copy of "Under The Dragon's Tail", though it could take a week or two to arrive. I'll let you know when it does! I can understand why you have the TV show hard to resist, Carolyn, and am pleased to hear that what you have seen sounds excellent! I had a look online here the other day to see what prices the DVD's were, and have found that while they are readily available, many people are bidding on them, so they are not that cheap even secondhand. Still, it's good to see that they are popular!

Your mention of "Call the Midwife" reminds me that that is show I should catch up on. I think I've seen five seasons, but I saw yesterday that it's been going for ten years now, so I've certainly missed quite a bit. It's a show I really liked -- it's one of the few medical type shows that I actually enjoyed, perhaps because it has that historical aspect to it, and had a whole cast of characters that I became quite invested in.

I found all the information about the accents interesting, especially because I wouldn't have picked up that on my own I don't think! I just watched an interview with Anne Murray and although I'm not brilliant with accents, I can hear the difference.

I believe Mr. Shipley only revised personal details about his Mom, as is his right -- I think so, and also that he was slightly older than he claimed he was, and cheated the man he bought the stall from, giving him less money than he should have because the man was blind. I think my biggest issue with him (other than the manslaughter of course!) is what you said about him having being in those boys position but he doesn't seem to care about them in a way that actually involves helping them in a practical sense.

Everyone thought Harriet was going to marry Owen, didn't we? Dirtbag Cannon having any interest in Harriet was dumped on us at the end. It was not constructed well, unless surprising us was Maureen's idea of twist. This ill-fitting nonsense is exactly why I wish the trend for twists would be ditched, in favour of smooth stories that are woven well. -- Yes, she was definitely linked to Owen, and I'm still a little confused over the Cannon twist. I agree I would preferred a a lack of twist in favour of a well-woven, smooth story. Most of the story worked, but these bits didn't quite land. I wouldn't be surprised if this is ironed out in future books though, especially since her writing is strong and clever.

On this subject I am sad. I have finished reading two histories of Winnipeg school girls killed because someone did not find them in time -- how awful. It's always so sad to read true tragedies such as those ones. As affecting as fictional murders can be, they never compare to the heart wrenching ones that really happened.


C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
We are so careful about embarrassing or interefering when it might not be warranted, that it takes ages to go to feel sure that someone needs help. How long do we watch unknown cats until we take their photo, ask around, and realize they might need help home, like our Conan? Four years! Who knows how many places he has been.

One time, we heard horrible sounds from our ex-neighbour's house. We knew they might be embarrassed if we called the police. No one, least of all me, predicts being in an altercation of tempers or alchohol gone wrong with even trusted people. After it is over, anyone would prefer no one had seen it but at the time, how do we know someone wouldn't be accidentally hurt or killed?

Ron begged me to phone the police on the woman's behalf many years ago. Things had subsided by the time police got there and the people blew it off as an unnecessary call. They never spoke to us again but I couldn't have called myself human, if I had not offered the help.

The "Stoppel" PDF is free at the website I provide with the book record, In 1981, Barbara was fortunate that a lady working nearby found the locked door odd and they could see a suspicious guy through the bright windows. Her husband arrived soon to pick her up from work and did something about it right away. But he did not see a small rope tied around her neck. By the time police took it off, she had been strangled for several minutes. She lived for 9 days but died. One nearby police car offered to come right away but was turned down!! Some outrageous rule was cited, that a car from a certain district needed to handle it!!

Candace's story is in a professionally published book by her Mom. In 1984, they knew she was about to come home from school and were certain something was wrong. They called police, who wasted days insisting that she must be a deliberate runaway! Who does that! Her Dad searched the path she took home. Had the police done their jobs instead of being idiots, or had the Dad ventured to look 500 meters from their house in an abandoned shack by railroad tracks; Candace would not have frozen.


message 40: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
Hi Carolyn,
We are so careful about embarrassing or interefering when it might not be warranted, that it takes ages to go to feel sure that someone needs help -- this is very true, and it's certainly disheartening to think about how differently many events might have panned out if didn't hesitate so much when it comes to stepping up or in.

They never spoke to us again but I couldn't have called myself human, if I had not offered the help -- it's sad that this is often the outcome, but I agree that making the call is the right thing to do, especially if the alternative might so easily be a poor outcome leaving you wishing you had made the call.

The stories about both Barbara and Candace sound incredibly sad. I will look up your reviews for both now.


message 41: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 28, 2021 08:25PM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
God bless you as usual for giving me readership, my friend. There are no reviews yet; some of the ones to do are from April. I haven't written in awhile but I am home from my Dad's place, to catch up on various things.

Candace Derksen's story is my Mom's paperback. Barbara Stoppel's is a PDF you can read for free, written recently by the main police officer who reopened her case in 1999. There is sadness but the stories also teach about hope, never giving up, and that there is value in prevention. Both have a "police suck" element but you learn what you can do better. Ron told me that Barbara precipitated a law here that a youth or a female, whichever it is, can't work alone at night.

I was happy to come home to our cats and our dear Ron. I also came home to a wonderful set of 9 books from a recent Awesome Books order. "Under The Dragon's Tail" is among other excellent ones whose covers and colours are smiling and shining at me! I can wait a little bit.

I think Shirin & I should finally indulge in "The Murder Of Roger Ackroyd", which is one of Agatha's most famous and most enjoyed from what I have heard and seen. Then, I would love to read the beloved classic, "The Time Machine" with whomever is game and has a probably easily scored copy.


message 42: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
That law sounds like a good one, and while it's awful that it required such a tragedy to bring it in, it's good when a positive change can come from something terrible -- hopefully it means many other people were safer.

I'm glad you are home, reunited with Ron and your cats! And your new books! My copy of "Under The Dragon's Tail" hasn't arrived yet, but I'm hopeful that it wont take too long. I hope you enjoy "The Murder Of Roger Ackroyd". I don't have a copy of that one, but I'll be able to join in with "The Time Machine" when you are ready for that one!


message 43: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 29, 2021 09:25AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
I don't know about Shirin but I know you and many other friends binge read. I like taking a break between authors and try savouring three a year. I don't want to blow through authors or series I love, if they don't have many published items or are gone.

I find I am unlikely to get bored or irritated with one writing style if I read others things in between. I truly believe my pleasure and can be impacted by several of one author's books in a row. It doesn't mean I'm not eager to return quickly, so long as I cleanse that palate with something else for a little while. :) It doesn't matter if I love them and am not outwardly annoyed with anything. The best way I can explain is getting used to a certain voice or environment so as to be lulled by it, not treasuring the nuances and freshness of it as well as a break gives us.

I certainly have a lot of new goodies from which to choose: before and after our summer shopping trip and a few excellent on-line scores. Yes, being back with Ron & our Kitties is divine! The girls & Conan celebrate their first birthday without Marigold in the world on September 7. I prompted Dad to have a card prepared for them that I brought home, as well as a late one for Marigold & McCartney.

Ron & I read Marigold's to her spirit via putting her framed livingroom photograph in front of us and having that moment with her. McCartney, thank the good Lord, is here to see and receive his card in person and so are the rest. I got Dad to do a sympathy card for Marigold as well. Ron & I will look at it another day. It is recent enough. Our girl had a great birthday in January with Spirit still here. It is a tradition for my Mom and now Dad, to give our cats cards to keep as lifetime mementoes.


message 44: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Aug 29, 2021 09:29AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Oh, there is something else I meant to say. I saw on TV yesterday that Lucy Lawless is a New Zealander! I have not seen "Xena" but certainly, the whole world heard of that show. I believe it was in the 1990s. I suppose it was filmed there as well. I don't recall her having an accent so I wonder if she suppressed it for her show. Anyway, it is nice to know another famous person and source of entertainment from your country. My sample was short. Is there distinction between New Zealand's and Australia's accents?


message 45: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
I'm definitely a binge reader, but your explanation of your approach makes perfect sense! It's good to know what works best for you. I've been reading the "Flambards" books, and after waiting years to find a copy of the second, I think I'll be reading the whole series in one go!

Reading the card to Marigold via her picture is a good idea, and I'm glad McCartney got to hear his in person. And less than a week for the next birthday celebration! I hope it's a wonderful day, though I know you will miss Marigold terribly.

"Xena" was my favourite show when I was younger, though I don't remember it that well now. It was filmed here, and I think the characters had American accents. There are differences in the accents between New Zealand and Australia yes, but similarities as well. It's similar to Canada and America in that way I think. I can usually hear it, but I don't know how to explain it!


C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Thank you for your caring, supportive, positive replies on personal subjects always.

I found a good price for the third "Murdoch Mysteries" novel and there are a couple of copies left for you, Kerri darling! https://www.awesomebooks.com/book/978...


message 47: by Kerri (new)

Kerri (kerrisbooks) | 483 comments Mod
Thanks for that link! I wasn't familiar with that site and will check it out.

Happy birthday to Angel, Petal and Conan! I'm hope it was a brilliant day for all of you. :-)


C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
Thank you for remembering our babies, who have turned 11 years-old yesterday! Conan too, wherever he is for now. We also include their Brother, Love, in our birthday wishes: all four kittens born on this very special day that brightens our lives.

I am sad that Marigold ascended to the afterlife at such a young age, that her kittens will match her 11 1/2 in half a year. It emphasizes how brief a time she is getting. Spirit is away too soon at 16 1/2 too, considering how happy he makes us and how dearly we wish he could be here as well. Especially Love, gone in 2014 for more year then he lived.

We are slowly trying to focus on the happy things. We celebrate birthdays over several days: waiting for kind-hearted messages like yours to come in, taking photos which will soon include Ron, me, and McCartney with them. I got a few shots before it rained yesterday and a few indoors but we want those individuals with them and a group pose of the cats. Your friend, Carolyn.


message 49: by C. (Comment, never msg). (last edited Nov 13, 2021 08:48AM) (new)

C.  (Comment, never msg). (riedel) | 1498 comments Mod
My review for "Except The Dying" is fresh off of the press. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I was re-reading something you wrote earlier, Kerri, about the annoyance of updating software. I have asked a few people for a few years if they have a Windows 8 CD they could give me. No one did or they were using it. It is too much for me to download and I like to have an installation CD on hand anyway. The computer shop from whom we buy those dial-up modems said it was not worth it and that we ought to go to Windows 10.

When discussing our PC another time, they asked for the specs and realized Windows 8 is the most recent version we can have, which is fine by me. This is a good PC with lots of memory space. However, Windows 7 is no longer supported and I have imagined there are things that would work better if I upgraded that little bit. I am back to asking for everyone to be on the lookout for a spare Windows 8 CD. My thanks.


back to top