Fans of British Writers discussion

Since we'll officially begin our group read of The Sign of Four tomorrow, I thought it wouldn't hurt to get this thread up now, so it will be ready for discussion among those who start it right away. (I won't be one of them; I'll have to start later this month, since I'm still plugging away on my current read.) For me, this will be a reread; but my previous read was as a kid, so I've forgotten a good deal of the plot!

Published in 1890, this was the second of four novels Conan Doyle would write featuring his iconic detective hero, Sherlock Holmes (the first one was A Study in Scarlet in 1887). Like the first one, it's narrated in the first person by Holmes' sidekick and foil, Watson, who's a medical doctor (as was Doyle himself). The author's style is basically of the Romantic school, as evidenced by the appeal to the reader's emotions and the incorporation of exotic plot elements.

In creating his protagonist, Doyle was greatly influenced by the handful of earlier stories by Edgar Allan Poe featuring the latter's sleuth Auguste Dupin; Holmes' rigorously deductive reasoning methods greatly resemble Dupin's. But by Doyle's own statement, the character also owes much to real-life Edinburgh physician Dr. Joseph Bell (1837-1911), who pioneered forensic medical techniques based on close observation, and who frequently assisted the police. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_... .)

I'm in for this one!

Sounds good, Rosemarie!

I will have to pass this year. My daughter just had a major surgery, I spend all my time taking care of her. But I will join you next year!

I hope your daughter's recovery goes smoothly, Oksana.

Thank you, Rosemarie. Enjoy the book, it was one of my favourites when I was a kid.

I'll be praying for your daughter's speedy recovery, Oksana! We'll miss having you reading with us, but look forward to joining in with you another time.

Why am I seeing a lot of pornographic posting when I now go to GRs posts? this is happening all the time now. What is going on with GRs ?

I've been fortunate not to see that, David.

David wrote: "Why am I seeing a lot of pornographic posting when I now go to GRs posts? this is happening all the time now. What is going on with GRs ?"

David, I haven't experienced anything like that, either. But since you have, I'd definitely suggest reporting it to the Goodreads management, at this link: https://www.goodreads.com/about/conta... .

What is happening is that I get a notification from someone who 'likes' my status update. When I go to that persons page and click on their website it is a porno link. Has anyone else had this problem? I will report it to Goodreads management as Werner has suggested.

David wrote: "What is happening is that I get a notification from someone who 'likes' my status update. When I go to that persons page and click on their website it is a porno link. Has anyone else had this prob..."

I had a couple of adverts for furniture, but no porno - and now I don't click on the link. I'm not really interested in someone who 'likes' that I am currently reading The Big Blue Book of Boys' Stories.

David wrote: "What is happening is that I get a notification from someone who 'likes' my status update. When I go to that persons page and click on their website it is a porno link. Has anyone else had this problem?"

Yes, now that you explained what happened to you, I've had the same experience (though in my case, I didn't click on the website, because the URL made it clear what it was). Definitely report, and flag, any profile with that kind of link!

I've read one chapter so far, and it's a good thing I'm a big Sherlock Holmes fan, since Holmes is a know-it-all annoying drug addict in this one-so far!
This is also a reread so I know he improves during the course of the book!

The Sign of Four is set in 1888, but it has roots that go back to the Sepoy Mutiny in 1857. Most of Doyle's readers would have been familiar with that background; but most early 21st-century readers (especially in America) probably are not. Wikipedia provides an informative article, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_... .

I really like the descriptive writing in this book, which creates an eerie atmosphere at times.
I admire Sherlock Holmes but I really like Doctor Watson. Something good comes into his life in this book.

I recently read a Jules Verne novel in which Nana Sahib, mentioned in this novel in the story dealing with the mutiny, is one of the main characters.
So I've read two novels mentioning the mutiny this year.

In message 14, Rosemarie mentioned Holmes' cocaine addiction. Coca leaves, and their properties as a stimulant and inducer of euphoria, had been known in Europe since the Spaniards encountered them, through the South American Indians, in the 1500s. But cocaine had only been extracted from coca leaves in powdered form in 1860. At the time that Doyle was writing the Holmes canon, it was still pretty new; the medical profession in Europe and the U.S. didn't yet recognize how harmful it is. Many medical professionals actually seriously imagined that it was quite a wonder drug, and employed it for quite a few medical uses. In his book On Cocaine (1884), Freud had touted it as a treatment for depression and morphine dependency, and denied that it's addictive.

This is the historical context of Holmes's cocaine use, based on naive ignorance. As late as the early 1900s, Harrod's was still selling cocaine over the counter, and the British army handed it out to soldiers in World War I in tablet form, to give them energy for forced marches. It was only in 1918 that the British government prohibited selllng/giving it to military personnel, due to the accumulating evidence of its dangerous effects, and only in 1920 that they banned it altogether under the Dangerous Drugs Act. (The U.S. had enacted a ban in 1914.) See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine... and https://tonydagostino.co.uk/history-o... .

In Doyle's Holmes canon, our hero's cocaine addiction, and the effects it would have in real life, are never really (or realistically) reckoned with. A few modern writers of Holmes pastiches do attempt this, though. One who does is John Gardner in The Revenge of Moriarty, which got four stars from me. Another is Nicholas Meyer in The Seven-Per-Cent Solution: Being a Reprint from the Reminiscences of John H. Watson, M.D., which is on my to-read shelf.

That is interesting, Werner. I think that Coca Cola originally had cocaine instead of caffeine in it.

Rosemarie wrote: "That is interesting, Werner. I think that Coca Cola originally had cocaine instead of caffeine in it."

Yes, when it was introduced in 1885, it did. It was invented by American pharmacist John Pemberton, who was one of those who were convinced of cocaine's health benefits, and originally marketed his drink as a tonic and patent medicine. The Coca Cola company didn't totally eliminate cocaine from the formula until 1929 (https://teens.drugabuse.gov/blog/post... ).

I find the history of cocaine you outlined here fascinating. Thank you, wasn't there a film a while back about Holmes called "The 7% Solution"? I find it sad that drug use is basically glorified in many Hollywood films.

Carol wrote: "I find it sad that drug use is basically glorified in many Hollywood films."

You and I both, Carol! :-(

Yes, there was a 1976 film adaptation of the Nicholas Meyer novel that I mentioned in message 18 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075194/ ). Meyer himself wrote the screenplay, so it should be a pretty faithful adaptation of the book; and my impression is that, in this case, the book doesn't glorify the drug use.

There are apparently also at least a half dozen movie adaptations of The Sign of Four. This is the imdb link to the 1987 BBC Mystery! version starring my favorite cinematic Holmes, Jeremy Brett (although I've never seen this particular film): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0685628/ .

I have a "complete" series of Sherlock Holmes in DVD with Basil Rathbone. However, it does not have "The Sign of the Four". Oh, I really liked Jeremy Brett's Sherlock!!

Carol wrote: "I have a "complete" series of Sherlock Holmes in DVD with Basil Rathbone. However, it does not have "The Sign of the Four". Oh, I really liked Jeremy Brett's Sherlock!!"

I've heard good things about Basil Rathbone's many Holmes portrayals (and some fans consider him THE definitive Holmes incarnation!); but sad to say, I've never seen him in the role. But I did like Matt Frewer as Holmes in the 2000 TV movie adaptation of The Hound of the Baskervilles (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0264695/ ) --which is surprising, since I initially didn't see him as the physical type. (Personally, I didn't care much for Robert Downey in the 2009 Sherlock Holmes movie (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0988045/ ); but he couldn't help the crummy script he was stuck with there. :-( )

Yay! I finally got started on this book yesterday afternoon. It's been so long since I read it that it's essentially like a new read, at least so far.

I've never seen a movie version of the book.

Rosemarie wrote: "I've never seen a movie version of the book."

I never have either; alas, I never did get much time to watch movies, and get even less as I've gotten older.

When you first mentioned this as the book, back when?, well, I immediately got it on Kindle, read it, and then totally forgot the plot!!! I cannot find it, for some reason I deleted it after I read it, that was stupid I know. I need to scan it a bit to refresh my memory!

Hope you can get hold of a copy again soon, Carol!

I finished the book this weekend, and my three-star review is here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... . (There might --or might not-- be some grist for discussion there. :-) )

Thanks for your review; I agree with your star evaluation. Reading this for the group led me to get Stephen Fry's Sherlock Holmes on Audible. It is absolutely fascinating, first for the intelligent and in depth introduction from Fry, and then he introduces each story in a personal way. His narration is simply excellent. Audible gave it to me for "free" because I am a member and I was looking for Sign of the Four. It is well worth listening to if you are a member of Audible and if you like Stephen Fry.