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Short Reads, led by our members > The Bloomsbury Christening (hosted by Judy) - 3rd Summer Read 2021

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message 1: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jul 16, 2021 01:05PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
This is the thread to discuss The Bloomsbury Christening by Charles Dickens, which is our third summer read this year, between 10th and 22nd July.

Judy is the host for this read, so please allow her to comment first. Thanks!


message 2: by Judy (last edited Jul 04, 2021 02:05PM) (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Thank you for setting up the thread, Jean. Looking forward to this, and also to catching up with the other short summer reads, which to my shame I haven't got to yet!

For anyone who is planning to join in, The Bloomsbury Christening is one of the Tales in Sketches by Boz, and is also available in many other editions, including as an etext from Project Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/58157... There is also a separate etext here: https://www.thecircumlocutionoffice.c...


message 3: by Judy (last edited Jul 09, 2021 11:34PM) (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments The Bloomsbury Christening is one of the last stories in Sketches by Boz, but was one of Dickens's earliest short stories to be published, in April 1834, in The Monthly Magazine. The sketches were collected and published in book form in 1836 and then reissued in monthly parts from 1837 to 1839. Dickens arranged the stories for book publication and placed the story in its current position, as Chapter 11 of the Tales.

Summary below - this includes the whole story as it is quite short, so best to read the story first!



This illustration by George Cruikshank was added when Sketches by Boz was first published in book form, in 1836. It shows Nicodemus Dumps, left, with his nephew Charles Kitterbell, being introduced to the nephew's wife Jemima, and the nurse, holding the baby. The picture was scanned by Philip Allingham and is taken from the Victorian Web. https://victorianweb.org/art/illustra...

It's hard to summarise this story, because most of it is funny character descriptions (there is a lot of black humour) and I'm really tempted to quote great chunks! The story begins as it goes on, with a hilarious description of Nicodemus Dumps, who is a 50-year-old bachelor. "The only real comfort of his existence was to make everybody about him wretched - then he might be truly said to enjoy life." He has a well-paid job in a bank, but has chosen his lodgings just because they look out at a churchyard, meaning he can look at the tombstones. 

He has a long-suffering nephew, Charles Kitterbell, who has been married for about a year. Kitterbell's wife, Jemima, is expecting a baby, and he foolishly invites "Uncle Dumps" to be a godfather if it's a boy. Dumps tries to refuse, but his nephew insists, even when Dumps starts making unfeeling comments - "Oh, well, it may be a girl and then you won't want me; or if it is a boy, it may die before it is christened." 

A couple of days later, Dumps sees in the paper that the Kitterbells have had a son, and then a few weeks later gets a letter from his nephew saying the baby is doing well. The letter is very funny - I love the PS: "I open this note to say that we have just discovered the cause of little Frederick's restlessness. It is not fever, as I apprehended, but a small pin, which nurse accidentally stuck in his leg yesterday evening. We have taken it out, and he appears more composed, although he still sobs a good deal."

Dumps reluctantly decides he will have to go ahead with being godfather, and buys a "handsome silver mug" for the baby, Frederick Charles William, engraved with his initials. Despite several days of fine weather, Dumps is convinced it will rain on Friday, the day of the christening, and is proved right.

He decides he will have to ride to the christening to avoid getting soaked, but doesn't want to pay for a hackney-coach, so he decides to go on the cheaper omnibus. Three rival Cockney "cads" (conductors) start to argue over him and in the end one "kidnaps" him and shoves him into the middle of his overcrowded vehicle. 

He arrives at the Kitterbell home just as they are getting ready to hold a reception for "a few friends" in the evening - it seems to be more than a few, though, with "two dozen extra tumblers and four ditto wine-glasses". Dumps meets Jemima for the first time and the two are not very impressed by one another.

The family then goes to the church for a very quick service (rushed in much the same way as the christening in our recent read Dombey and Son), and Dumps goes back to the bank for the afternoon before the evening party. On his way to the party, a drunk man knocks into him and he is "providentially caught by a very genteel young man", who then walks along with him. Unusually, Dumps feels grateful and is polite to the young man. He then arrives at the large party, with 35 people, and discovers that the mug has gone from his pocket - stolen by the "gentlemanly-looking young man".

Dumps then meets various guests including Kitterbell's friend Danton, who is known as a great wit (but clearly isn't anything of the kind.) They all dance quadrilles and sing,  then all eat a delicious supper and drink wine, and it looks as if the event will be a success, until Dumps proposes a toast.

While claiming to toast the "health and prosperity" of the baby, he depresses everyone by saying how he hopes all sorts of awful things will not happen, from early death to being a "thankless child". The mother then falls into violent hysterics, and the evening is ruined. Everyone is upset except for Dumps, who walks home happy and is thought by his landlady to have been heard laughing.

The story ends by saying that the Kitterbells have since had two more children with a third on the way, but they have taken care to make sure the godfathers never make speeches and "should be in no way connected with the most miserable man in the world."


message 4: by Judy (last edited Jul 09, 2021 11:35PM) (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Just a bit of background and a few opening comments.



This illustration is by Fred Barnard from the Household Edition - another one scanned in by Philip Allingham for the Victorian Web, same link as for the Cruikshank illustration in the previous post. Great portrayal of Nicodemus Dumps!

Dickens chose a real address for the Kitterbells' home - and there is now a blue plaque on 14 Great Russell Street, saying "Here lived Charles Kitterbell as related by Charles Dickens in Sketches by Boz 'The Bloomsbury Christening'." It's a larger and grander house than I'd expected from the story.
https://www.londonremembers.com/memor...

The christening takes place at St George's Church "a fabulous 18th century Baroque church" which also features in Hogarth's engraving, Gin Lane. 
https://www.divento.com/en/london/602...
There is also a plaque here mentioning the story
https://www.londonremembers.com/memor...

Interestingly, despite being by a then unknown author, this story was pirated for the stage within months of its initial magazine publication - believed to be the first ever dramatisation of Dickens! Dickens put a note at the start of the book publication saying: "The Author may be permitted to observe that this sketch was published some time before the Farce entitled 'The Christening' was first represented."
There is a note in the Penguin Sketches by Boz explaining that Dickens was "referring to a popular dramatisation by the playwright and comedian John Buckstone" first performed on 13 October 1834 at the Adelphi Theatre". It adds that Dickens "took the piracy in good humour".

If you are a fan of A Christmas Carol, I think it's striking how similar Dumps's name and character are to Ebenezer Scrooge. His "cadaverous" appearance suggests he is a bit miserly and so does the comment that a "hackney-coach was too expensive for his economical ideas", although he spends a lot of money on making other people unhappy!

And his name has the same combination of an evangelical first name and a very down-to-earth surname as Scrooge's (Ebenezer was often the name of a chapel). Nicodemus is a Pharisee in the Bible who asks Jesus about the doctrine of being "born again"  "Dumps" meant being grumpy or depressed, as in the phrase "Down in the dumps".

In Scrooge's case, he is not interested in religion, but Dumps seems to enjoy using religion to persecute people (even though his admiration for Herod shows his religion is a sham!)

Dickens's scathing comments about Dumps trying to ban people's simple pleasures remind me of his pamphlet Sunday Under Three Heads, written in 1836, a couple of years after this story was published. Here he argues passionately against people who wanted to ban pleasure outings on Sunday, the only day off that working people had. The whole set-up of Dumps sneering at his kindly nephew also shows the way forward to Scrooge and his nephew Fred. 


message 5: by Connie (new)

Connie  G (connie_g) | 1029 comments Judy, I'm looking forward to reading this story with you, and enjoying Dickens' humor.


message 6: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments That's good to hear, Connie - it's a fun read. Looking forward to it too.


message 7: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
Just a few hours to go before we can unclick the spoiler tags ...


message 8: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "Just a few hours to go before we can unclick the spoiler tags ..."

Just removed them now, Jean, thank you! I hope everyone enjoys the story - I think it's great, amazing to realise how early in Dickens's career it was written.

I'm working today so won't be around much during the day, but will pop back to respond to comments this evening.


message 9: by Janelle (new)

Janelle | 0 comments So funny! I really enjoyed this. Dickens’ descriptions are hilarious, I think my favourite was Mrs Kitterbell had a face like a cold fillet of veal!!


message 10: by Diane (new)

Diane Barnes That was my favorite description too Janelle. My first impression of this story is that I know someone just like this! Their happiest and best days occur when they hear of the misfortunes of others. Obviously so did Dickens, as his Dumps character is described to a T. I think it's a sad way to be, but Dickens turned it into a very funny story, and we have no sympathy at all for Dumps. The illustrations included in this thread are wonderful, and so is the background. If there are plaques on all the houses and locations in London that Dickens used as settings, it must be hard to walk even a block in any direction without coming upon one of them. I really appreciated the placement of this story in the summer reads. It was nice to have something amusing after the last two more serious selections.


message 11: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Janelle, I agree it is really funny and that's a great line you picked out. While Cruikshank didn't exactly make her look like a joint of veal in his picture, I think he got the pale and superior look.


message 12: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Diane, I definitely didn't feel any sympathy for Dumps as he seems so delighted with himself. I'm not sure how many plaques there are to Dickens characters - it would be interesting to find out.


message 13: by Connie (new)

Connie  G (connie_g) | 1029 comments Judy, have you ever been on a Dickens tour to visit all the houses and other places that he used in his novels? I would think that it would be fun for someone like you or Jean who have read so many of his works.


message 14: by Judy (last edited Jul 10, 2021 01:35PM) (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Connie, I have been on a Dickens walk in my home town, Ipswich, which has quite a few places he visited or which are mentioned in his works, including the Great White Horse hotel which features in Pickwick Papers. A local expert led the tour and did a reading at the end while we enjoyed afternoon tea.

But I haven't been on a Dickens walk in London, although it is something I've been meaning to do for years! I would definitely like to visit the church featured in The Bloomsbury Christening.


message 15: by Connie (last edited Jul 10, 2021 03:00PM) (new)

Connie  G (connie_g) | 1029 comments I loved the quote about Dumps: "He subscribed to the 'Society for the Suppression of Vice' for the pleasure of putting a stop to any harmless amusements; and he contributed largely towards the support of two itinerant methodist parsons, in the amiable hope that if circumstances rendered any people happy in this world, they might perchance be rendered miserable by fears for the next."

Although it is humorous in the story, Dickens was upset when Parliament tried to pass laws that would outlaw most enjoyments for poor people on their one day off during the week. I think there was a mention of it in The Victorian City: Everyday Life in Dickens' London side read. (edit: Found it on pg 376) He wrote a pamphlet about his feelings:
https://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Charl...


Another favorite quote was Dump's answer when he was asked if the baby resembled either of his parents: " Oh, dear no; not in the least. I'm no judge, of course, in such cases; but I really think he's more like one of those little carved representations that one sometimes sees blowing a trumpet on a tombstone!"


message 16: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Connie, I agree that line about the Methodist parsons is fantastic - such great and characteristic writing from Dickens at the outset of his career!

I was also reminded of the pamphlet he wrote, Sunday Under Three Heads, which I mentioned in one of my posts - thank you for the link to the etext. I don't think I have got up to the bit about that in The Victorian City yet, but will watch out for it.

There's an interesting page about the Society for the Suppression of Vice on Wikipedia - I was quite surprised to see that it was founded by the famous anti-slavery campaigner William Wilberforce.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society....

It looks as if it had some worthwhile aims, such as opposing cruelty to animals, and some much less so, such as trying to keep everything closed on Sunday.


message 17: by Connie (last edited Jul 10, 2021 03:11PM) (new)

Connie  G (connie_g) | 1029 comments Sorry, Judy, I missed your mention of the pamphlet before. I was Googling Dickens and the Sabbath, and just came upon it. I was impressed how Dickens could be so amusing, and still be so opinionated.

The illustrations and commentary you posted are wonderful!


message 18: by Sue (new)

Sue | 1140 comments When you mention about things being closed on Sunday, that reminds me that Massachusetts had what we’re called “blue laws” one of which kept almost all stores closed on Sunday. I can’t remember exactly when that stopped. But pretty much all of the country had 7 days a week shopping long before we did. And our Sunday hours are not the same as the rest of the week. Also, most stores are closed here on Christmas and Thanksgiving. I guess it’s a carryover from our English forefathers.


message 19: by Katy (new)

Katy | 285 comments Diane wrote: "That was my favorite description too Janelle. My first impression of this story is that I know someone just like this! Their happiest and best days occur when they hear of the misfortunes of others..."

I also know someone just like this. Mr. Dumps is the perfect name. I enjoyed this story very much.


message 20: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Connie wrote: "Sorry, Judy, I missed your mention of the pamphlet before. I was Googling Dickens and the Sabbath, and just came upon it. I was impressed how Dickens could be so amusing, and still be so opinionate..."

No worries Connie, great minds, and thanks again for the etext links! I think Dickens is sometimes at his funniest when he is angry, about something like the Sunday laws.


message 21: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments On the omnibus "cads" all fighting over passengers, there is a lot about this in our side read The Victorian City: Everyday Life in Dickens' London. Omnibuses were a new form of transport, which had only arrived from 1829, and at first they had no tickets, so apparently drivers and conductors were often tempted to cram in as many people as possible and pocket some of the fares for themselves, only handing over the minimum to the company.


message 22: by Petra (new)

Petra | 2173 comments Judy, this was a delightfully entertaining story.
I enjoyed the look into Mr. Dumps life and the way he went about his days.
The descriptions in the story are hilarious. I enjoyed them all. Every scene was fun to read. The speech at the end was hilarious.
Then Life goes on, more babies arrived.....but the speeches were ended. Mr. Dumps left his mark. Hahaha.


message 23: by Lori (new)

Lori  Keeton | 1094 comments Thank you Judy for the wonderful background info. This was a fabulous story.

Knowing how Dickens uses real people in his works as influences, he must have known someone just like Dumps. His characterization of him is spectacular. He is sly and opinionated for sure. His negative traits are what make this so funny. It's sad that he was a bachelor because I would hope that a woman's influence might have softened him. What a horrible story he made up to scare unnecessarily poor Charles about his landlady's baby. Suddenly he became black in the face and alarmingly spasmodic.


message 24: by Katy (new)

Katy | 285 comments I don't know about it being sad that he was not married. I wouldn't want to be married to him. ☺


message 25: by Lori (new)

Lori  Keeton | 1094 comments Me neither Katy. There is someone for everyone but maybe he’s an exception.


message 26: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments I do agree that Dumps is awful and I wouldn't want to be married to him either! One of the first Dickens characters that readers could love to hate, showing the way forward to so many others.

Lori, I wonder if there was a real-life original - it is hard to imagine anybody quite like Dumps.


message 27: by Bridget (last edited Jul 14, 2021 01:57PM) (new)

Bridget | 1004 comments Judy, thank you for this hilarious story and all the wonderful links to the real life building and church.

I loved the ominbus scene, especially since reading that bit of the The Victorian City: Everyday Life in Dickens' London. I loved how he was jostled about inside the bus finally landing on an old man's lap who said "Anywhere but on my chest" meaning Dumps could not sit on him.

But my absolute favorite part was the comment about the ladies eating:
"and the young ladies didnt eat much for fear it shouldn't look romantic, and the married ladies eat as much as possible, for fear they shouldn't have enough"
Isn't it still that way in modern time?? When I was younger and dating I ate mostly salad, but now that I'm older and married I eat what I want (well, mostly :-)


message 28: by Sara (new)

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments This was a lovely break for a laugh. The young Dickens had his sense of humor in full flourish. I read The Pickwick Papers many years ago, but I did not have any memory of this one, so it was refreshingly new to me.

The comment about admiring Herod was very telling. This wasn't just a grumpy old man, this was a very mean old man. Love all the quotes you guys have picked. I laughed aloud at this one:

It is not fever, as I apprehended, but a small pin, which nurse accidentally stuck in his leg yesterday evening. We have taken it out, and he appears more composed, though he still sobs a good deal.'

Poor baby, hope they improved by the time the other children were added to the family!

Thanks for the photographs, Judy. I find it interesting that so many of these places are marked with plaques. Sort of like finding "George Washington slept here" plaques all over America.


message 29: by Diane (new)

Diane Barnes "He adored King Herod for his massacre of the innocents...." is Dickens quote. I was reading a book last night by an Indian author who said that she was the type of child that made people think that King Herod had a great idea with his massacre of the innocents
and of course my first thought was that she had read this particular story.


message 30: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments For those who enjoyed the illustrations, there are some other 19th-century illustrations around, as the story was adapted for the Magic Lantern in 1897. A magic lantern site has a list of the 12 slides but no images:
http://lucerna.exeter.ac.uk/set/index...
Interesting to look at the captions and see how the story was adapted for late Victorian audiences to watch as a slide show.

I haven't been able to find a full set of the drawings anywhere but this is taken from the Magic Lantern slide of Dumps being knocked into by the "intoxicated man" - a company called 3D Rose has produced many items including this image, in a colourised version, including face coverings and a mug! This one is from a coaster set, which isn't currently available (pic from Canadian Amazon site).



A seller on eBay has some of the other glass magic lantern slides for sale as individual items - you can see a few pictures here though there were more when I looked a day or two ago. The one of Dumps sitting in a chair is great.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_fr...


message 31: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Diane wrote: ""He adored King Herod for his massacre of the innocents...." is Dickens quote. I was reading a book last night by an Indian author who said that she was the type of child that made people think tha..."

That's really interesting, Diane - sounds as if the author shares Dickens's enjoyment of black humour with phrases like this. I wonder if it was ever a saying?


message 32: by Sara (new)

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Interesting illustrations, Judy. I could not see the slides in the first link, but the second link was terrific.


message 33: by Judy (last edited Jul 12, 2021 01:41PM) (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Sara wrote: "Interesting illustrations, Judy. I could not see the slides in the first link, but the second link was terrific."

Sadly the first link is just a list of captions, Sara - I thought it was interesting because it shows which scenes they chose to illustrate for the magic lantern presentation.


message 34: by Sara (new)

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Got it! I did scroll through and read each caption, but thought I was doing something wrong by not having the slide to look at. It find it fascinating that so many illustrations exist for even Dickens' shorter works.


message 35: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jul 13, 2021 04:20AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
As always I love the illustration by Fred Barnard :) I approve of George Cruikshank of course, as an original illustrator of Charles Dickens, but sometimes I prefer a less comedic style, and Fred Barnard never seems to caricature.

And what a fabulous name - Nicodemus Dumps! That definitely deserves to go in our "Favourite Names" thread, someone.

Thanks Judy, for leading a really lively discussion so far with lots of side interest too. I hope to get to this short story and contribute better in a couple of days :)


message 36: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Bridget wrote: "Judy, thank you for this hilarious story and all the wonderful links to the real life building and church.

I loved the ominbus scene, especially since reading that bit of the [book:The Victorian C..."


Bridget, I've noticed there are one or two more sketches featuring omnibus cads in Sketches by Boz - it was clearly a very topical subject! I will have a look at the other sketches too - I agree it was fun to come to this after reading about it in The Victorian City. Also agree the line from the banquet was funny.


message 37: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments This is about a later incident in the short story - as Jean has not read it yet and maybe others too, I will put in spoiler tags for now.

(view spoiler)


message 38: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "As always I love the illustration by Fred Barnard :) I approve of George Cruikshank of course, as an original illustrator of Charles Dickens, but so..."

Jean, I love the Fred Barnard illustration too, as well as the Cruikshank one.

Also agree about Nicodemus Dumps being a great name - I will head over to the names thread, thank you!


message 39: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Interestingly, as well as being the very first Dickens story to be dramatised on stage, this was also the very first Dickens story to be illustrated.

Robert Seymour, who was later the first illustrator of Pickwick Papers, picked out an extract from The Bloomsbury Christening after its anonymous magazine publication. He included it in his book Seymour's Comic Album (not on Goodreads) in 1834, with a small illustration or vignette.

This is mentioned in lots of places online, but I sadly haven't managed to find Seymour's illustration anywhere!


message 40: by Sara (new)

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments An interesting note about Seymour--his story is quite sad. He and Dickens had a tense difference of opinion regarding illustrating The Pickwick Papers and he committed suicide. I think there are many instances in which Dickens hurt other people in insisting on the perfect image he had in mind for his work, both the written words and the illustrations, but that is what gives us this incredible body of work he left behind.


message 41: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jul 15, 2021 10:30AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
Judy wrote: "Interestingly, as well as being the very first Dickens story to be dramatised on stage, this was also the very first Dickens story to be illustrated.

Robert Seymour, who was later the first illus..."


When I first read this, I wondered if the source material was wrong ... there are an awful lots of mistakes online about Charles Dickens :( And I knew Robert Seymour had only illustrated the first two installments of The Pickwick Papers ... I'll tell the story briefly, for those who do not know.

At the time of The Pickwick Papers, Charles Dickens was relatively unknown and quite poor. He was 23, and all he had written were these "Sketches" about London life, for various magazines. The publishers "Chapman and Hall" asked him to write pieces in a similar vein to accompany some plates by Robert Seymour, an established illustrator. These plates were of bumbling members of a sporting club getting themselves into various predicaments. Charles Dickenss's brief was to connect them by providing a comic story, and the two parts would then form a "picture novel" - a popular entertainment of the time.

Charles Dickens was quite excited by the idea, but straightaway started to alter the plan. In his own words, he

"objected... that it would be infinitely better for the plates to arise naturally out of the text; and that I would like to take my own way, with a freer range of English scenes and people, and was afraid I should ultimately do so in any case, whatever course I might prescribe to myself at starting."

One can only imagine how presumptuous this must have sounded! Robert Seymour was 38 years old and had already illustrated the works of William Shakespeare, John Milton, Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra and William Wordsworth. He was a talented artist who had been exhibited at the "Royal Academy" over a decade earlier when he was just 24. He was on his way to becoming the President of the Royal Academy, and thought to be one of the greatest artists since Hogarth. Despite all this, Charles Dickens got his way, and led the episodes by the story. He evidently must have a been a charismatic and forceful character even at this young age!

As Sara, said, now of course we know the true extent of the brilliance of the man. Ironically and tragically Robert Seymour committed suicide before the second issue of "The Pickwick Papers" was published. He had a few drinks with Charles Dickens, delivered his latest sketch of "The Dying Clown" to the publishers, then went home and shot himself. There is a fascinating back-story attached to this, and critics argue about how much his self-esteem might have been affected by Charles Dickens.

Robert Buss was then commissioned to illustrate the third installment, but his work was not liked by Charles Dickens and the remaining installments were illustrated by Hablot Knight Browne who took the name "Phiz". This was to accompany the penname Charles Dickens had already made his own, "Boz".

It is fascinating to hear that Robert Seymour had earlier made an illustration for the original magazine publication, thanks Judy. I wonder why it was not used in the book, rather than that by George Cruikshank. I must look out for "Seymour's Comic Album" :)


message 42: by Judy (last edited Jul 15, 2021 11:45AM) (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "It is fascinating to hear that Robert Seymour had earlier made an illustration for the original magazine publication, thanks Judy. I wonder why it was not used in the book. I must look out for "Seymour's Comic Album" :)..."

Hi Jean, sorry for any confusion but the illustration wasn't in the magazine, but just in Seymour's Comic Album, where he put in an extract entitled "The Omnibus". With the state of copyright in those days, I don't know if he even needed permission! Perhaps he wanted to keep his illustrations for his own publication?

I've done a bit more Googling and it looks as if Seymour's first Dickens illustration was first identified by eminent Dickens scholar Kathleen Tillotson - I have found part of an article about it from The Dickensian here but sadly the whole thing is only available to academic libraries etc.

https://www.proquest.com/openview/e26...


message 43: by Judy (last edited Jul 15, 2021 10:37AM) (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments Sorry, meant to add, it says in the article that the Seymour illustration shows the omnibus cad pursuing Dumps when he didn't pay his fare.

I wonder if Seymour knew or discovered later that Dickens was the author of this anonymous story?

Thank you so much, Sara and Jean, for posting more about Dickens and Seymour, and including a lot I didn't know. A very tragic story - there must have been a lot of reasons for his suicide. It would be very interesting to read more about Seymour - I hadn't realised quite how highly thought of he was until reading your post, Jean. Have you ever read a biography of him?

Dickens certainly started with some of the most famous illustrators of his day, with Cruikshank and Seymour.


message 44: by Sara (new)

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments In reading about Seymour, I also thought that Dickens must have been a very charismatic young man to get his way over such an established person. I was also taken with how confident Dickens was in his own talents and abilities. He instinctively knew that he could do the job better without following someone else. I think most of us tend to bow to those we believe "know" more than we do, or at least have the prestige and experience.

When the first instalment of The Pickwick Papers appeared, on March 31st 1836, it was simply credited as “Edited By Boz, With Illustrations.” There was no mention whatsoever of Robert Seymour. Can you imagine how that made him feel?

The front over of the first edition of the Pickwick Papers.



message 45: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jul 15, 2021 11:45AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
Judy - Thank you again for the (albeit brief) extract by Kathleen Tillotson, an excellent Charles Dickens scholar. I too find it frustrating to have access denied to academic library material, and try to remind myself of all the advantages we do have since the advent of the internet :)

I agree, the illustration may well have had a restricted viewing, since it was by a then unknown author ... and then as Sara pointed out, no names at all were on the cover of The Pickwick Papers: The Posthumous Papers of the Pickwick Club on March 31st 1836. This was not uncommon, and Charles Dickens himself followed this tradition, not crediting writers who contributed to his own magazines, years later.

After Robert Seymour's death, there was a lot of correspondence in "The Times" between Charles Dickens and Robert Seymour's widow, who claimed that most of the ideas were her husband's, and I think Charles Dickens had to put up a spirited defence. (He refers to this in his Preface to the book edition, I think.) This happened later on too, when Charles Dickens was threatened with the law for apparently stealing another's ideas. We can never be really certain of the truth. There must have been a lot of envy, but on the other hand Charles Dickens's single-mindedness must have seemed unbearably arrogant to everyone who stood in his path, however inadvertently.

But this is straying a little way from Bloomsbury!


message 46: by Sara (new)

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Well, it is a lovely straying, IMHO. I find these anecdotes very useful in trying to get a clear, unbiased picture of who Dickens really was in my head. Not, of course, that we can ever truly know...and he was a lot of different people at different times, as we all are. Being single minded or even ruthless in business does not cancel out being a loving and true friend, and I dare say having a mistress does not wholly annihilate being a husband and father.


message 47: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
Very true ...


message 48: by Judy (last edited Jul 20, 2021 01:33PM) (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 362 comments I've enjoyed the straying too, but, going back to the story, what really strikes me most about it is that it's so funny, and such characteristic Dickensian humour, right at the very start of his career.

It was also clearly pretty popular with the pirated stage production - so clearly his early stories were already getting quite a bit of interest before Pickwick Papers turned him into a sensation.


message 49: by Tim (new)

Tim | 15 comments I'm a little late to the discussion, but just finished reading the story and quite enjoyed it. The sense of humor was quite welcome and I found myself genuinely laughing a couple of times. As I mentioned in the introduction thread, prior to joining the group I had only read A Christmas Carol and The Signal Man, so I'm still in a stage where I don't quite know what to expect from Dickens other than delightful prose, but this was a solid and very fun read. (sorry I don't have much to add).


message 50: by Sara (new)

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments I'm glad you got to it, Tim, and I enjoyed reading your thoughts. Dickens is a man of many faces.


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