Play Book Tag discussion

The Four categories for August are:

immigration (situation) -- someone must arrive in a new country for the purpose of permanently living there -- Cindy
religious ritual (situation) -- must reference a religion and a ritual associated with it -- Anita
food (situation) -- must include a foreign recipe or a description of how to cook a foreign food -- Anna
culturally significant location (situation) -- person/character must visit a location that has a historical/cultural/religious significance in a foreign country -- Nicole

This will also be the reporting thread once August starts! When you report, please post:
Item Collected: name the item that you found
Location in Book: describe where you found the item. Either a page/location/etc number for exact words, or a really brief description if it is a situation.
Number Collected: E.g., 1/4, 2/4, etc. This just helps me as I score to be sure I didn't miss anything!
Book title and review (or link to review): the standard stuff

Wanna see the scoring for past months? The spreadsheet is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/... (the upper left excel cell tells you to what point the scoring is complete)

I was really curious to see how you all would deal with the really broad "cultural" tag, but these all look really interesting! I thought of two questions--

1. For "food," how specific does the description need to be? To make up a random example, would something like "Opa made the spätzle noodles by squeezing dough through the back of a slotted spoon, creating small noodles that squeezed through the cracks" work?

2. For "culturally significant location," should the country be foreign to me as the reader, the book's main character, or both?

Regarding "immigration", does the word actually need to be stated. For example, would the following meet this criteria:

"...but he had called her--his girlfriend of two years---to come out for a serious conversation...and now he had suddenly announced he was going to work in America" (the book is set in Japan and involves a conversation not made which might have kept the boyfriend in Japan).

Would this be considered as meeting this tag?

The concept of "foreign" could cause confusion. All of us are foreign to other parts of the world It seems to me "religious ritual" includes things we may not think of as "ritual", like celebrating Christmas or just going to church/temple. Same for food or visiting a significant place, any of our members who are not American could use recipes or locations in the US.

Hi Robin,

Foreign does mean something that is not related to where you are from, so it will mean something slightly different to each of us depending on where we are from.

So, you are correct, our non-US members can use US food and locations this month, because it is technically foreign to them.

I do not think it will be too confusing though, so long as you stay focused on what is foreign for you based on your personal situation.

If you have specific questions about a scenario for a book you are reading or very seriously plan to read (no hypos, please!) then feel free to reach out to the admins directly.

Forsanolim, for your question #2–

For the culturally significant location, it should be foreign to you as the reader.

But, it does not matter if it is foreign to the narrator/character of the book. That would probably get a bit too nuanced for this game.

(Note that I have deleted an previous answer I gave not too long ago. After more thought, I think this response captures the spirit of the tag “culture” a bit better.)

Love these ideas. I often find them in my normal reading, however I have so much planned for this month and don't know what I will find. I'm sure I will find a couple.

John wrote: "For example, would the following meet this criteria:

"...but he had called her--his girlfriend of two years---to come out for a serious conversation...and now he had suddenly announced he was going to work in America" (the book is set in Japan and involves a conversation not made which might have kept the boyfriend in Japan). ..."

Hi, John.

I'm going to say that the word "immigration" does not need to be stated, but also no to your example because it doesn't show that he actually moved.

He is talking about it in your example, but does he actually do it? If he later in the book does move, then yes. Please confirm that when you post your find.

LibraryCin wrote: "John wrote: "For example, would the following meet this criteria:

"...but he had called her--his girlfriend of two years---to come out for a serious conversation...and now he had suddenly announce..."

So, does the person have to immigrate during the course of the book, or can they be a new immigrant in a country as long as it talks about how they moved there OR if it talks about the move there OR if it is there in a flashback?

btw, anywone reading A Long Petal of the Sea is all set with this one!

Also, in my experience Christmas is not always religious nor does it always have any religious ritual--many atheists and agnostics celebrate it with no religion or religious ritual at all--I am thinking of some of my siblings for my chief examples with that. It's not like Passover which has a religious ritual to it (I have celebrated that with a family of Jewish agnostics who are close family friends).

So how are we defining that or should we ask in a PM :)?

Hi Karin, Anita may weigh in with some broad guidelines. Otherwise, I am sure she can address these if you have a concrete example from a book you are reading or are seriously plan to read.

forsanolim wrote: "1. For "food," how specific does the description need to be? To make up a random example, would something like "Opa made the spätzle noodles by squeezing dough through the back of a slotted spoon, creating small noodles that squeezed through the cracks" work?"

Yes, that would work. LOL I'll admit I was trolling for delicious recipes but a description of how to cook or prepare the food would do.

LibraryCin wrote: "John wrote: "For example, would the following meet this criteria:

"...but he had called her--his girlfriend of two years---to come out for a serious conversation...and now he had suddenly announce..."

John, are you reading Before the Coffee Gets Cold? If so, then I believe it will fit

For many of you this would be "foreign" and has marvelous recipes ...

Like Water for Chocolate by Laura Esquivel


Personally, I won't count anything with Mexican recipes, as that is the cuisine I grew up with.

Robin P wrote: "The concept of "foreign" could cause confusion. All of us are foreign to other parts of the world It seems to me "religious ritual" includes things we may not think of as "ritual", like celebrating..."

I think the "religious ritual" has nothing to do with "foreign."
We just need to find a passage that identifies the religion and a passage that describes a ritual ... perhaps a baptism, or a wedding, or a bris .... I'm sure Anita will clarify any questions sent to her via PM

re culturally significant location ... first book I thought of was Dan Brown's books: Angels & Demons and The Da Vinci Code ... NOT that I plan to re-read them. But my stars .. what DON't they visit!

NOTE: I cannot remember whether the family first arrives in Canada at the beginning of the book, or if they are already on the plains. Sorry .... Still a great book for the "cultural" tag.

+++++++++++++++++


As for immigrant experience ....

I cannot recommend this enough! Under This Unbroken Sky by Shandi Mitchel - a Ukranian family who emmigrates to the northern Canadian plains (Saskatchewan? Alberta?) ... just stunning literature!


You can read My review HERE

For immigrant experience Elizabeth Street was very good

These are wonderful! Really capture some of the elements key to Cultural.

A book is set in spain, and the main character lives in spain.
For religion, would this be sufficient? "... she drives past Leon Cathedral where they planned to get married."

For an immigrant I'm going to assume that the person has not "just" arrived.

If we read a book set in a communist country, religion might not come up at all.

Karin wrote: "So, does the person have to immigrate during the course of the book, or can they be a new immigrant in a country as long as it talks about how they moved there OR if it talks about the move there OR if it is there in a flashback?
..."

Hi, Karin. I would like the person to immigrate during the course of the book.

Nancy, does this also help answer your question?

LibraryCin wrote: "Karin wrote: "So, does the person have to immigrate during the course of the book, or can they be a new immigrant in a country as long as it talks about how they moved there OR if it talks about th..."

Thanks, that makes sense :)!!

Yes that makes sense. My fly book will apparently work for that. It might make it harder for others to find immigrant experience books that will work.

For the purposes of learning about culture, I really like to see the interactions that occur once the people get settled. But the trips getting there often make a great story.

I would recommend Paper Wife to someone looking for a good historical fiction and immigration book. It covers life before and after the trip from China to the US circa 1900. The trip itself is interesting, and there is a long period of internment before they are allowed to actually enter the country. It covers some interesting historical issues (including a bit about sex trafficking).

"I think the "religious ritual" has nothing to do with "foreign."
We just need to find a passage that identifies the religion and a passage that describes a ritual ... perhaps a baptism, or a wedding, or a bris .... I'm sure Anita will clarify any questions sent to her via PM"

Yes, Book Concierge is stating this correctly. Somewhere in the book there needs to be a religion identified as well as a ritual associated with that religion. She is giving good examples.

Anita wrote: ""I think the "religious ritual" has nothing to do with "foreign."
We just need to find a passage that identifies the religion and a passage that describes a ritual ... perhaps a baptism, or a weddi..."

Thanks, this is just what I thought. Christmas doesn't always have religious rituals, etc. Nor do all weddings.

For "culturally significant location" does the text have to explain why the location is culturally significant, or does the character just need to visit such a location?

Sabrina, they do not necessary have to talk about the significance so long as it is obviously a significant place.

For example, I can totally envision a romance book where characters get engaged at the Eiffel Tower but do not ever discuss the cultural significance of it. But, the Eiffel Tower is clearly a culturally significant location in Paris.

If it is not obvious to me why your location is culturally significant, then you may just need to add a few words from the book or your own knowledge about why it is significant. (E.g., memorial at site of uprising that started revolution)

Anna, how does Arros Negre sound to you? The negre refers to black squid ink. Almost all the ingredients are things I always have on hand, except for the squid and ink.

Nicole R wrote: "Sabrina, they do not necessary have to talk about the significance so long as it is obviously a significant place.

For example, I can totally envision a romance book where characters get engaged ..."

Thanks for explaining this so well :). Now I know it doesn't have to be famous as long as there is a valid cultural significance to it.

I suspect I have already missed a couple in one book, because I forgot this one, but will keep my eyes peeled from now on. I forgot to write out the list.

I have a question about the Food item. I have been reading a book which pairs short essays with recipes. (It's perfect for this category.) Since many of the recipes are detailed and on the long side, how would you want them to be typed up here? It seems daunting. For those who are curious, the book is Eat Joy: Stories & Comfort Food from 31 Celebrated Writers

Hi, I just had a question behind the scenes about immigration, and whether or not someone seeking asylum would work.

From the original description in Nicole's post #1, it says this: "immigration (situation) -- someone must arrive in a new country for the purpose of permanently living there"

And with someone seeking asylum, they are more wanting to get away from somewhere than specifically choosing a place to come to to settle.

I also looked up differences, and the "clearest" definition I could find in a comparison says this:

"There is no internationally accepted legal definition of a migrant. Like most agencies and organizations, we at Amnesty International understand migrants to be people staying outside their country of origin, who are not asylum-seekers or refugees. "

That is from this page:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do...

So, I'm going to say no to refugees and asylum seekers. I wanted to give everyone a heads up.

LibraryCin wrote: "Hi, I just had a question behind the scenes about immigration, and whether or not someone seeking asylum would work.

From the original description in Nicole's post #1, it says this: "immigration ..."

So interesting. I actually became quite caught up on the distinction of refugees and asylum seekers versus immigrants after reading Call Me Zebra by Azareen Van der Vliet Oloomi, then pursued it further in Exit West by Mohsin Hamid . My ultimate conclusion is that those immigrating are choosing to leave and establish a life in another country but could go back if they wanted, whereas a refugee or asylum seeker have no choice for one of many reasons. There is a voluntariness to immigration.

It's not a clear line, of course.

Theresa wrote: "LibraryCin wrote: "Hi, I just had a question behind the scenes about immigration, and whether or not someone seeking asylum would work.

From the original description in Nicole's post #1, it says ..."

You're right - it's not always a clear line. My grandparents did both, but not to the same country. First they were refugees to a different European country from where they met, etc.After some time they opted to emigrate to Canada, so when they arrived there they were immigrants and no longer refugees.

Theresa wrote: "My ultimate conclusion is that those immigrating are choosing to leave and establish a life in another country but could go back if they wanted, whereas a refugee or asylum seeker have no choice for one of many reasons. There is a voluntariness to immigration.

It's not a clear line, of course. ..."

Yeah, this makes sense.

Karin wrote: "Theresa wrote: "LibraryCin wrote: "Hi, I just had a question behind the scenes about immigration, and whether or not someone seeking asylum would work.

From the original description in Nicole's p..."

Yes, that is an excellent example. My family clearly emigrated to US in 19th Century from Ireland and Germany respectively. No question. However, a Jewish client was a Russian refugee, initially in Switzwerland, then Italy, but ultimately emigrated to US from Italy, a voluntary choice. Many Vietnamese stories start in refugee camps in Cambodia or Laos, but ultimately then emigrate somewhere else.

NancyJ wrote: "Anna, how does Arros Negre sound to you? The negre refers to black squid ink. Almost all the ingredients are things I always have on hand, except for the squid and ink."

Sounds delicious! My mom used to make squid, and also made black noodles with squid ink.

Item Collected: Immigration
Location in Book: p 7, Ch 1
“And how long will it take for you to get this green card?” Calrk asked as he put down the Blackberry.
“I don’t really know sir. Immigration is slow, sir; very funny how they work.”
"But you’re in the country legally for the long term, correct?”
“Oh, yes, sir,” Jende said.
(A big part of the story is Jende’s struggle to get approved by immigration.)

Number Collected:1/4

Book title and review: Behold the Dreamers
This book juxtaposes the stories of a couple from Cameroon who have moved to New York City and an American couple where the husband is a high executive at Lehman Brothers at the time of the crash. Each family has their own challenges. There are a lot of questions about values of wealth, family, the meaning of work, success, and the American dream. - 4*

Item Collected: food
Location in book: p.161, Ch 25
All afternoon she stayed in the kitchen, making . . ekwang, which took two hours to make because she had to peel the cocoyams, grate them, tightly and painstakingly wrap teaspoons of the cocoyam into spinach leaves, then simmer in a pot with palm oil, dried fish, crayfish , salt, pepper, maggi, and bush onions for an hour.

Number collected: 2/4

Book title and review: Behold the Dreamers
See previous message for review.

Item Collected: religious ritual

P 301 Ch 48 - funeral of main character's father in Cameroon.
Pa Jonga was placed in the Limbe Provincial Mortuary. His body, adorned in a white suit, was placed on a bed of bricks covered with a brand-new white bedspread. All night, Ma Jonga sat on the floor beside the bed, dressed in a black kaba, nodding as sympathizers filed through , , the next day the remains were blessed by the pastor of Mizpah Baptist Church . . After the funeral service, the Kakane women’s group, dressed in their social wrappers, led the mourners in a march from the house to the graveyard. A hired marching band followed the women, and then came the rented Land Rover bearing Pa Jonga’s brass-handled casket. Behind the Land Rover, a two-mile-long cluster of family and friends marched, some with framed portraits of Pa Jonga lifted high above their heads. They marched and they danced and they wailed all through New Town and through the market, crying and singing, Yondo, yondo, yondo suelele.

Number collected 3/4
Book title and review: Behold the Dreamers
See Message 37 for review

Item 1: Religious Ritual

Book: World's Fair, p. 36

The book is about a Jewish family. The young son in the family observes: "Candles burning down to the end, as in my grandmother's tumblers of candles, which could not be tampered with once lit, memorialized someone's death. And the Friday night candles that she lit with her hands covering her eyes, and a shawl over her head..."

The first ritual is honoring a deceased relative by lighting a memorial candle on the anniversary of his/her death. The second candle lighting ritual is to welcome the Sabbath.

Review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Total Items: 1/4

Item 2: Immigration

Book: World's Fair, p. 1

"My father and mother had met in Russia and they married there, and then emigrated." They had moved to the U.S. and were living in the Bronx.

Review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Item Total: 2/4

Holly R W wrote: "I have a question about the Food item. I have been reading a book which pairs short essays with recipes. (It's perfect for this category.) Since many of the recipes are detailed and on the long sid..."

I'd pick the shortest recipe that's foreign to you and just copy/paste it.

Item: Food

Book: Eat Joy: Stories & Comfort Food from 31 Celebrated Writers p. 142

Recipe: Chai - contributed by Mira Jacob

Ingredients

3 cups water
1 cup milk
8 teaspoons loose black Red Label tea leaves
1 teaspoon ginger minced
5 whole cardamom seeds, cracked
5 cloves
1 teaspoon dried mint
1 inch cinnamon bark, broken into a few pieces
3 tablespoons sugar

Heat water and spices until it comes to a fragrant boil. Turn down to simmer for one minute. Add tea and milk. Let steep for 2 minutes or longer if you prefer a slight bitterness. Add sugar to taste and strain to serve.

Review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Item Total: 3/4

Tessa, I followed the link you provided above, but I was routed to August's Fly The Skies thread. I then tried to find the correct thread to post on, but didn't find it. Please advise. Thanks!

Holly R W wrote: "Tessa, I followed the link you provided above, but I was routed to August's Fly The Skies thread. I then tried to find the correct thread to post on, but didn't find it. Please advise. Thanks!"

I think you are right. Who is confused here?

I think I'm confused ... Saw the "reporting" item and didn't notice FLY vs PURSUE.

I'm blaming it on too little sleep ...

DELETING my above post.

Item Collected: religious ritual
Location in Book: p. 75 - "The Hall of Guardian Kings' four immense statues glared down at the line of kneeling novices. Behind them, the monks murmured the two hundred and fifty precepts of the monastic oath. ... He laid cool, restraining hands on either side of her face as the other monks placed the twelve incense cones upon her {shaved] head. Smoke cascaded around her face, its familiar fragrance mixed with something new: the smell of her own seared flesh. ... and now the Abbot draped the seven-panel robe over her shoulders. .... "Monk Zhu..." This ordination of a monk occurs in a Buddhist monastery in Henan province of China.
Number Collected: 1/4
Book title and review: She Who Became the Sun by Shelley Parker-Chan

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Item Collected: culturally significant location
Location in Book: p. 376 - "Mist swirled over the plain. As it shifted she could make out geometric shapes far above, like a glimpse of the Jade Emperor's realm in the sky. The straight edge of ramparts; the tops of Bianliang's famous Iron Pagoda and Astronomical Tower." The Iron Pagoda is a masterpiece of Song Dynasty architecture still standing. Today Bianliang is named Kaifeng, Henan province of China. Here's a photo:


Number Collected: 2/4
Book title and review: She Who Became the Sun by Shelley Parker-Chan

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Item Collected: Immigration
Location in Book: Kindle LOC 2064 - "I was glad to have the opportunity to come to the Highlands and make my own life." - Max was a cowboy in Wyoming sent by a wealthy businessman to Scotland to manage his engraving business in the 1890s. Since Max's quarter black racial background (freed slave) was difficult, he wanted a fresh start and Scotland was the perfect place.
Number Collected: 1/4
Book: The Lass Who Lost a Shoe - Caroline Lee

Review: This is a Victorian Scottish retelling of Cinderella. Ember is the daughter of an engraver and stepdaughter of an Innkeeper. She is treated as a servant. The Laird of the region is the head of an Engraving business that partners with a Wyoming gun manufacturer to create custom work incorporating engraved metal gun handles. Ember has created engraved shoe heels that she wants to show off at a ball to garner the attention of the American who has come from Wyoming to manage the Engraving business. The American, Max, is just a cowboy who has become a protege of the gun manufacturer and is looking for this new position to give him a new life. There are interesting intros to each chapter done from the perspective of the local Godmother's Guild. Cute story.

Item Collected: culturally significant location (situation - person/character must visit a location that has a historical/cultural/religious significance in a foreign country)
Number Collected: 1/4
Location in Book: Chapter 2, page 28, 9% into the book: "I was standing on the deck of the steamer gazing back towards the harbour, towards the messy shoreline of boats, gangplanks, mud huts, dark wood jetties, behind them the large buildings of the Shanghai Bund, all now fading together into a single blur." (Note: Shanghai is China's biggest city, one of the world’s largest seaports and a major industrial and commercial center of China. Its heart is the Bund, a famed waterfront promenade lined with colonial-era buildings. The narrator spent his childhood in Shanghai and goes back there in the later part of the book.)
Book: When We Were Orphans by Kazuo Ishiguro
Review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...