The Sword and Laser discussion

Gawd luv that Delly Wells but the Victorian mockney int 'arf distracten' me somethin' chronic.

Up to Chapter 6 feels like there may be a mystery afoot. My moneys on one of the toffs being a nefarious moustache twirling type.

Yeah, that first part made me feel like I was in a comedy instructional on the Cockney "Apples & Pears" rhyming slang accent. Big sections of the first part were laid on thick. It wasn't bad so much as slopped on with a broad brush when a smaller one would have been fine.

I've finished the book so I'll say there is some good stuff coming. Oi! Just keep readin', Guv'nah!

Yeah, I thought my English was quite passable, but the dialogue here has me quite lost at times. But I am only in chapter 3 and I am still hoping it gets better....

Now that I've finished, I think that as the plot gets into motion the more distractionating elements of Dellaria's speech don't pop up as much. I was also growing tired of it at the beginning, but almost chuckled at it once later. The beginning just makes it feel like it's trying a little too hard.

I was distracted by Dellaria's speech pattern in the beginning but now that I'm about half way through I don't notice it as much. The plot has picked up too and that helps.

One of my first impressions I had when I first started was how nice it was to be dropped into this world without a lot of exposition/world building. It felt very familiar even though I've never read this author before. A somewhat Gail Carriger vibe.

Anyone know the origin of the term "relefting"?

Serendi wrote: "Anyone know the origin of the term "relefting"?"

I just assumed it was yet another made-up word. It’s pretty clear from context what they’re getting at, similar to how Niven always used “tanj” or BSG used “frak”.

In-universe I sort’ve got the impression it had something to do with the Venn diagram of undead ~ ghosts ~ ancestors, but I don’t recall it being explicitly spelled out.

That's kinda what I was thinking, but a lot of the made-up words have an origin you can deduce. Still drawing a blank, though. Thanks!

There's sufficient talk of "re-lifing" and not in a necromantic fashion, that it makes me think the religion of this world includes a Buddhist rebirth theme. "Relefting," really the same word as "relifing," seems to occupy the same quasi-swearword space as, say, "bastard" as it refers to the re-lifing process in a profane fashion.

John (Taloni) wrote: "There's sufficient talk of "re-lifing" and not in a necromantic fashion, that it makes me think the religion of this world includes a Buddhist rebirth theme. "Relefting," really the same word as "r..."

Yep, this is what I gathered too. They took a tenant of their religion and made it a mildly-blasphemous exclamation. Something like 'zounds.'

Huh. Will ponder. Thanks.

I'm not so distracted by Dellaria's speach pattern, but it is taking me a bit to get comfortable with the narration style. It isn't bad, I'm just not used to it so it is taking some getting used to.

My take on 'relefting' is much the same as John and Seth's. There seems to be a notion of limbo where souls return to corporality after a 'span'.
Dellaria's use of 'relefting' in nearly all cases can be replaced with 'damnable' so my take was that it refers to souls that were not re-lifed but left in limbo, re-left.

Gotcha! Thanks!

I’m up to chapter 5 and I’m just not sure if I can hang in there. Glad to hear that the plot improves and I like that it really drops into this world with no exposition. I’m not really motivated to pick it up and keep reading though.

I’ve reached Chapter 9 (about a third of the way through the book) and it’s a fun enough adventure story with a bit of a slow-burn romantic subplot, but as Aubrey says above, I’m not feeling especially motivated to pick it up and keep reading. The narration style isn’t really ‘gelling’ with me tbh - it feels like the author is trying a bit too hard to be witty and clever and I’d rather she just got on with the story. I think I’ll finish reading this one but I can’t see it becoming a favourite.

I got through chapter 2 and probably going to lem it. I guess it’s not my cup of tea

Tina wrote: "I got through chapter 2 and probably going to lem it. I guess it’s not my cup of tea"

Relefting it on the unread pile, eh wot.

Ruth wrote: "it feels like the author is trying a bit too hard to be witty and clever and I’d rather she just got on with the story."

That’s a pretty good observation. I’ve read interviews with two different actors recently (Nathan Fillion and Matthew Perry) who both commented that their worst seasons on their sitcoms were when they were chasing the laughs rather than acting the truth. Sometimes it’s better to just focus on the fundamentals.

Jan wrote: "Yeah, I thought my English was quite passable, but the dialogue here has me quite lost at times. But I am only in chapter 3 and I am still hoping it gets better...."

About half way through the author runs out of steam and the dialog flattens out to regular talk without any more British slang. Unfortunately the characters seem to lose their identity and, at least in the audiobook, it's hard to tell them apart.

Ruth wrote: "I’ve reached Chapter 9 (about a third of the way through the book) and it’s a fun enough adventure story with a bit of a slow-burn romantic subplot, but as Aubrey says above, I’m not feeling especi..."

FWIW the plot, such as it is, isn't really the point of the book. There's a plot, kinda, but it's not really a "get the macguffin" kind of story. This is more of a "development of characters" kind of novel. There are several interesting character studies and an overall commentary on class structure. I enjoyed it and eventually rated it four stars, but it did take its time getting there.

I am starting to wonder if on a meta level the difficulty I have with the dialect is totally appropriate for a book about class - showing the disadvantage someone has who doesn't quite know the parlance of those in charge and how it's othering you...

I'm a little halfway through, listening to it in audio. I'm a little tired of Wyn ending many sentences with "wot" and Delly saying "sakes" all the time, but that's minor quibbling.

So far I think Buttons is amusing.

My questions are:

1. Are they calling women "gulls" or is this an accented "girls"?
2. "householded": is this the same as marriage and/or adoption or is this more like companion/concubine/mistress?

Leesa wrote: "2. "householded": is this the same as marriage and/or adoption or is this more like companion/concubine/mistress?"

I don't remember a full description of this, and I was hoping for a bit more information. There is a character who is a householded as a daughter, but it seems you can also be householded as something like a spouse. So I suppose it's like the part of a very traditional marriage where one family agrees to take financial responsibility for a person, but that person's relationship to the family could be in a variety of different roles.

Leesa wrote: "I'm a little halfway through, listening to it in audio. I'm a little tired of Wyn ending many sentences with "wot" and Delly saying "sakes" all the time, but that's minor quibbling.

So far I think..."

I think “gull” is just an accented way of saying “girl”.

The household thing is an interesting piece of world building that (so far - I’m at about 40% now) hasn’t been fully explained. It seems to involve a wealthy household taking responsibility for a person, but the exact nature of the relationship varies- could be equivalent to adoption of a child, marriage, or something akin to taking on a paid companion.

Definitely not something I would have read on my own, but I enjoyed it for the most part. Not a huge fan of romance in general, but the I guess, ‘sub-plots’ were pretty interesting, and Buttons was great.

This one just wasn't my thing. Made it about a third the way in and just don't have motivation to go back to it.

Jeremy wrote: "This one just wasn't my thing. Made it about a third the way in and just don't have motivation to go back to it."

Same, I got about 50%, mostly because this *should* have been something I liked: A look at class divisions, fantasy world accepting of LGTQIA+ people and not in middle age Europe. The characters were interesting but not enough to deal with a plot that I found exceedingly boring.

Yeah...this book isn't about the plot. Or really, the revealed plot isn't what the Macguffin seems to be. I found it worthwhile tho.

I am listening to this book. I planned on it before it was picked. I'm also annoyed by the abundance of "wot"s from Wyn.
Dely's dialog (inner & outer) has made me laugh a few times, but I feel like the audiobook would've been better with a UK narrator rather than Ava Lucas (American like me). Her English accent is better than Keanu Reeves, but only a little better.

I finished and it was a slow read. I was bored through some of it and it took its time getting to the point. It was a great character book and I liked Delly, Winn, and Abstentia. Delly was flawed throughout, yet a likeable and understandable heroine. Winn was a bit too much a caricature and much too perfectly nice. I liked Abstentia better as a foil to Delly who, despite being a snob, really had the group's best interests at heart.

I finished it, but didn't love it. The overly-twee dialogue continued to be an irritation all the way to the end - especially when I realised it wasn't just the characters inventing mangled words, but the authorial / narrator's voice too.

I think it was just the wrong book for me. I should have trusted my instincts and skipped this one.

Ruth wrote: "I think “gull” is just an accented way of saying “girl”."

I’m torn between thinking it’s that, and thinking it might be this worlds version of chick/hen/duck/cock/bird/any regional version of bird I may have missed that is used to refer to women in a casual, some may consider slightly offensive way. It could be accented girl, but I find it hard to imagine an English accent that would say it that way, and I think we have both posh and cockney accents using it, unless I’m mistaken.

I’m enjoying the story so far in spite of the awful accents and whatting and what not, but, damn, they do grate rather a lot.

Ian (RebelGeek) wrote: "I feel like the audiobook would've been better with a UK narrator rather than Ava Lucas (American like me). Her English accent is better than Keanu Reeves, but only a little better."

I haven’t listened to any of the audio, but I actually think an American narrator with a poor imitation of a British accent is very fitting for this book. I don’t think the author was shooting for authenticity (I certainly hope not!) so the accent shouldn’t be either. I think the only way for anyone to approach this dialogue is to chew up up terribly, so a true British narrator would either do just as ‘wrong sounding’ a job, or ignore the way the book is written.

Update: I just listened to the sample, and I think I misunderstood. I’d been imagining some awful attempt at an accent, bit, for the length of the sample at least, the narrator just seems to use her natural accent, which is better, I think. You’re spared some of the worst parts!

She mainly uses the fake accent for Winn (unsure of spelling).

Ah, it should definitely sound fake then. Who talks like that, what!

Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "Ah, it should definitely sound fake then. Who talks like that, what!"

David Tennant & Catherine Tate? ;-)

I am not sure if this was the thread where we talked about the writing style, but I wanted to throw my two cents in. I started this book in physical text and only made it about 50 pages in before I couldn't stand it anymore. I decided I would try the audiobook version, and found it to be way more engaging. The writing style makes it a more interesting listen and I am not bothered by it nearly as much as when I was physically reading. Ended up really enjoying the book.

Cody wrote: "I am not sure if this was the thread where we talked about the writing style, but I wanted to throw my two cents in. I started this book in physical text and only made it about 50 pages in before I..."

That’s interesting. Why do you think that is?

Trike wrote: "Cody wrote: "I am not sure if this was the thread where we talked about the writing style, but I wanted to throw my two cents in. I started this book in physical text and only made it about 50 page..."

For me, just seeing the words and trying to imagine the inflection of the voices with the accent was taxing. On top of keeping track of the characters and the world, it was too much for me. But the audiobook cut out the extra work for me and I was able to just hear the accent rather than having to imagine it and I was able to enjoy it more. It reads kind of like a radio play and is actually quite entertaining