Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

Hunger by Knut Hamsun is our Old School Classic read for October 2021.

This is a Spoiler thread.

I guess I will start this. What does everyone think about this continuous interior monologue, often fevered, of our main character? Even when talking to others, ostensibly in a dialogue, most of it is just an exterior expression of his own interior conversation. Do the so to speak dialogues actually result in a straightforward communication, without lies or manipulation? It reminds me of self-absorbed narcissists. While I sympathize with this person’s circumstances, I don’t actually like him.

Terry wrote: "I guess I will start this. What does everyone think about this continuous interior monologue, often fevered, of our main character? Even when talking to others, ostensibly in a dialogue, most of it..."
I guess I will try to reply to this. I'm about halfway through and I don't like the character either. But simply from a "hunger for food" point of view [as opposed to something literary], I think that self-absorbed, a bit crazed, feeling like an animal but trying not to-- all seem like almost inevitable consequences of hunger, especially if you don't have a child or someone else to worry about. But yeah, I think he's all about lies and manipulation.

I wasn't going to read this but I had some time and it's short, so I decided to just give it a peek.

I do not like the main character either. I was feeling a little sympathy for him until he decided to psychotically follow those two women just to make them feel nervous. Now my only thought for him is "gross creeper." Lol. I honestly wondered, though, if he does have an actual mental illness, but like Brenda pointed out, maybe it's just the side effects of being hungry.

We'll see how it goes as I get further along. I'm just reading small pieces of the book when I have a moment.

I just finished the book and I can say that the narration really drags you into his inner struggles. The first half of the book I was hungry, but at the same time happy that I live in the 21st century and have not to struggle with hunger.
The character is apathetic, to stubborn, to proud and to narcissistic, but you kind of feel for him. Although, after a while I wished him to commit suicide or to end his misery somehow, since I felt that there is no other solution. He was to irrational and to proud to get things going, therefore, he got stuck in a endless loop. So, obviously, a happy ending was unattainable.

In my translation of the book, there was a small description of author's life and it says that he was really struggling with hunger and hard work for ten years in his life and a lot of scenes from the book he literally lived through. He basically lived in the same accommodation which he described in the end.
Although the author is eccentric and different, IMO it's a great piece of literary work, especially since he is one of the pioneers of the psychology-driven literature which influenced many others later on.

I just finished this one today. I think I alternately disliked and then felt sympathy for the narrator. He has moments of pure narcissism as you have mentioned, but then there are some inner demons and struggles he has to contend with so I think psychologically this is part of the struggle of being hungry, both mentally and physically. I thought the title of the novel was appropriate, given there was a sense that the concept of "hunger" took on more than just a tangible form. There is a symbolic hunger of sorts with him trying to keep his sanity, his pride, and compose his piece to get published so he can earn his sustenance. Overall, in the end, I thought it was a very effecting and well conveyed portrait of a man who is struggling in various ways. I did however, think the ending slightly abrupt.

I am only at the end of Part One, but I do feel sympathy for this man, who wants to work and feel productive, but finds himself in this situation in which the physical strain is only a part of his anguish. He is honestly trying not to be a thief, despite a hunger that I'm convinced would make one out of most of us. Almost every action he takes works to his detriment, and it seems he would know that it would. He has no plan and no reasonable expectation of bettering his lot, he is aimless. Homeless, unloved and ultimately unmourned; he is one of the masses of ordinary people who are just lost in this world daily.

Beginning Part III and found this description of what he is feeling the perfect depiction of nervous exhaustion:

The last crisis had dealt rather roughly with me. My hair fell out in masses, and I was much troubled with headaches, particularly in the morning, and my nervousness died a hard death. I sat and wrote during the day with my hands bound up in rags, simply because I could not endure the touch of my own breath upon them. If Jens Olaj banged the stable door underneath me, or if a dog came into the yard and commenced to bark, it thrilled through my very marrow like icy stabs piercing me from every side. I was pretty well played out.

Having finished the novel, I thought it a good parallel read with The Fall by Camus. I read this for the historical importance but a couple of things stood out. First I have always seen the socioeconomic condition of the narrator phrased as a cause of his behavior and mental state. It is possible to see this reversed as well and with that interpretation the ending works better for me. Second I found the narrator's pride and constat worry about appearances to be interesting here.

Interesting thought about reversing cause and effect, Sam. I saw his worry about appearance and his pride as his way of trying to hold on to his humanity and not become just an animal begging for food and being fed...having only the basic needs attended to at the expense of any intellectual interaction. He wanted, desperately, to be seen as still having something to contribute.

I still going to try an fit in The Fall, especially since you see it as a significant parallel read.

Just started. Reading the original Norwegian version from project Gutenberg https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/30027

It is surprisingly easy to read (for a Dane). It is easier than Fridtjof Nansen and Hjalmar Johansen.

The main character is trying hard to prove to himself and anyone that he is not poor. But how does that fit with follow those two women? Is he hoping to help them? And he cannot so he makes up a problem of a lost book?

J_BlueFlower wrote: "Just started. Reading the original Norwegian version from project Gutenberg https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/30027

It is surprisingly easy to read (for a Dane). It is easier than [author:Fridtjof ..."

I believed he was just being confrontational. I think his reference to the book is meant to elicit a response but is just an irrational remark. There are other examples in the book.

Sara wrote: "Interesting thought about reversing cause and effect, Sam. I saw his worry about appearance and his pride as his way of trying to hold on to his humanity and not become just an animal begging for f..."

When reading the novel I noticed that several of the narrator's behaviors resembled those associated with teen rebeliousness or certain psychological illnesses. Since present investigation into causes of behavior find shared environmental and genetic contributions to most behaviors, I thought the idea that poverty caused the irrational acts of the protagonist seemed dated. By looking at the narrator as an individual already prone to irrational behavior and then adding the effects of impoverishment made the novel work better for the modern reader IMO.. I also thought it helped make the ending more realistic.

I agree, Sam, and I thought some of his behavior mimicked that of a manic/depressive in that it took very little to get him high on his prospects and then very little to plunge him into despair again; and both his ups and downs were followed with acts of complete and utterly inexplicable behavior, particularly the scenes in which he gives away whatever money he has or prods at people unnecessarily and then over-repents of it.

Sam wrote: "I believed he was just being confrontational"

I read a bit more, and that seems to be the pattern. But why? Is it some sort of cry for help? "See me!!!"

Perhaps, J. But I see it more as part of an internal struggle to hold on to his image of himself as a man of worth, so that at times he gives in to his hunger and need for help and then reacts by pushing the help away to assert to himself that he doesn't need it. His taunting of others seems to me to be tied to wanting them not to see that he is needy and pitiable.

Sara wrote: "Perhaps, J. But I see it more as part of an internal struggle to hold on to his image of himself as a man of worth, so that at times he gives in to his hunger and need for help and then reacts by p..."
I totally agree with you, Sara. I think he was to proud and wanted to prove to himself that he needed no help from others, but at the same time was frustrated that he couldn't move out of the situation on his own, which initiated the ongoing internal conflict.

Sara wrote: "Beginning Part III and found this description of what he is feeling the perfect depiction of nervous exhaustion:

The last crisis had dealt rather roughly with me. My hair fell out in masses, and I..."

I'm reading The Fall currently as well and I definitely do see some parallels in the narrator in some ways. I'm really not liking The Fall as much as Hunger though. I find the narrative flow too distracting and distant, where as in Hunger the narrator sort of "let's us into" his world and see what is taking place.

Well, I’ve only made it through 42% so far, but I can tell already that my reception of this book would have been much more positive in my 20s than now. There was something fascinating back then about starving for art‘s sake, but time has mellowed that out. I’ll save specifics for when I’ve finished the book, but that‘s my first take on it for now.

How interesting that you see this as "starving for art's sake", Joe. I didn't view it as sacrifice on his part. I'm very interested in your thoughts when you have finished.

It is also a re-read for me. Read it around 25 years ago. It is a different book now. I am much more interested in understanding his psychological view and less interested in the hunger. I guess I have read a lot of Dostoevsky in the meantime.

Dostoyevsky immediately came to mind as I read this. And my view is that his hunger is largely a result of his behavior, but perhaps the hunger also contributes to his psychological frame of mind.

Terry wrote: "but perhaps the hunger also contributes to his psychological frame of mind."

I am sure it does. Already low blood glucose changes the way people behave. Hunger - as in several days with out any food - impacts the brain.

I read this in two days, and found it quite good. I also think that hunger isn´t only the hunger of the body but also the mind.
The main character tries to hold to his "normal" self and not appear needy. His life must be awful, which may or may not influence his character.

I only found out afterwards that Hamsun was an antisemite and defended Hitler´s politics and inhumanity. I remember I suggested a book once by an author who had known about a certain crime that was lighter than the killing of millions of people, but was criticised for it. I liked this book, but the author is very controversial, more than others.

Michaela wrote: "...that Hamsun was an antisemite and defended Hitler´s politics and inhumanity. ..."

"Hamsun had strong anti-English views, and openly supported Adolf Hitler and Nazi ideology. Due to his professed support for the German occupation of Norway, he was charged with treason after the war. He was not convicted, due to what was deemed psychological problems and issues with old age."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knut_Ha...

Born in 1859, he was 86 in 1945. Maybe not too clear thinking?

Michaela wrote: "...that Hamsun was an antisemite and defended Hitler´s politics and inhumanity. ..."

Actually it add an extra bit to Hunger, if you read with that in mind: Here he is - according to himself a great artist - but not recognized and utterly suffering from it. Oh, wait Hunger was published in 1890, while Hitler was just 1 year old.

Very dramatically he described the years in Vienna with these words; "Five years of misery and pity - that's what this Phaiaker city has meant to me. Five years where, first as a relief worker and later as a small painter, I had to earn my meager bread, which was not enough to satisfy my hunger. Hunger was it the only one who almost never left me. " (Hitler’s autobiography - I am not going to link it. That is just asking for Goodreads to censure.)
Source: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_H...

J_BlueFlower wrote: "Michaela wrote: "...that Hamsun was an antisemite and defended Hitler´s politics and inhumanity. ..."

"Hamsun had strong anti-English views, and openly supported Adolf Hitler and Nazi ideology. Du..."

"Not too clear thinking" is probably true, but what is perhaps more true is that he let his hate of the English cloud his view of the Nazis. When hatred is the driver, we are already one step closer to excusing evil.

In my translation of the book, there was a small description of author's life.
It says that he moved to Oslo when he was 21. Since nobody wanted to publish his first novel "Frida", he stepped into a period of a struggle with hunger in the winter of 1879/1880, and he was subdued to extreme, miserable living conditions in a poor district of Kristiania (Oslo). He basically lived in the same boarding house, which he described in the end of this book. In the following spring, he escaped from Kristiania and started to work as a road worker. His life continued in the same way, by struggling with hunger and hard work for the next 10 years until "Hunger" brought him the breakthrough in 1890.
Many events that happened in the spring and the fall of 1886. were described in this book. He tried to sell and sold some articles for the journals, but wasn't very successful at it, following his departure to the US in fall of the same year.

Also, he is described as very stubborn, independent, proud, eccentric and with an "iron will", which can be found in his narrative. In real life, he rarely accepted any help from others and owed nothing to anyone, unlike Ibsen, who was funded by various people. He also was once diagnosed with Tuberculosis, but "cured" himself by sitting on a rooftop of a moving train, by inhaling clean air.

So, I think that his novel clearly showed Knut's character given to introspection, which was taken out of his real-life experiences.

I have not much contributed to this group so far, so I am glad to do so now that I read "Hunger". What still puzzles me: How could I like a book with a largely disgusting story and a repelling narrator/protagonist. It must be the mastership of Hamsun's (then highly innovative) way of writing together with his impressive language. Knowing todays Oslo as capital of oil-rich Norway I struggled to imagine the starving journalist/writer rumaging its streets. But the location does not really matter, does it? The story could happen in any big port city like Hamburg, London, Boston, Singapur etc. This is what attracts people to in different countries and over the crevice of almost one hundred years. According to my collateral reading the story has an autobiographic backgroud: Having returned in 1885 from his first unsuccessful emigration to the United States, Hamsun himself tried to live or rather survive in Oslo as a journalist. So he knew what he was writing about. Funny enough it was the publication of this story that pulled him out of poverty and allowed him to become a Nobel prize winning author.

Armin wrote: "In my translation of the book, there was a small description of author's life.
It says that he moved to Oslo when he was 21. Since nobody wanted to publish his first novel "Frida", he stepped into..."

Clearly this book is autobiographical in nature.

Peter wrote: "I have not much contributed to this group so far, so I am glad to do so now that I read "Hunger". What still puzzles me: How could I like a book with a largely disgusting story and a repelling narr..."

You are right that location is secondary, because the unremarkable people that are hungry, both literally and figuratively, could probably be found in any larger city.

I don’t understand the towards the end of part three: Why does ”Ylayali” invite him inside? Is she really in love with him? He does not sound like someone to love at first/second sight: Losing hair, clearly unhealthy, walking bent, with a bloody foot, badly dressed,....

Perhaps his character lol! ;)

Obviously not because of his wealth :D

Two hundred fifty pages of internal monologue, swinging between past and present tense (sometimes within the same sentence), from a self-absorbed, arrogant, immature, dunderhead. How could this have possibly held my attention? But hold my attention it certainly did. Maybe because it reminded me so much of myself in my late teens and early twenties. It's remarkable that either Hamsun or I made it out alive.

Finally finished this! Thanks for recommending it. Here‘s what I thought:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I suddenly realized the end of the month was here and I haven't finished yet! Lol. I'm going to try and finish it up tonight/tomorrow in between lots of Halloween festivities.

Mostly I keep forgetting about this book. I've really enjoyed all the conversation in the thread and I'm glad others have found it a powerful read. Personally, I feel nothing about it. I don't have any strong feelings either way, it's just kind of meh.

I wasn't going to read it because I thought it would be really dark and depressing but it's not. The narrator is too neurotic for that, so I guess that's a good things for me. I don't like reading dark and depressing things.

I'm about 50% through so I should be finishing soon.

Nice that you are willing to finish it, Natalie. I have such a hard time anymore making myself finish a book that leaves me indifferent. Happy Halloween.

Sara - I hear that! It depends on the book for me. If it’s a “classic” like this one I’ll usually finish it up, it will just take me awhile. (Hence only making it 50% through in a month! 😂) Happy Halloween! 👻

Sara wrote: “When hatred is the driver, we are already one step closer to excusing evil.”

Excellent point, Sara!


I finished this earlier in the week. I’m glad I read Growth of the Soil first, because this book would not have induced me to read anything more by the author. I honestly did not like it, and thought the narrator completely unlikable. It’s difficult to have sympathy for someone who can be so dishonest and mean, but I also see the point others have made that he may have been mentally ill and that that contributed to his dire situation.


I listened to the free audiobook on YouTube:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGCe7l4...