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Riddle me this . . .

I wanted to get some ideas for tweaking my Amazon keywords for Space Operatic. Because it's humorous science fiction, I thought I'd see what categories The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy shows in its ratings. So....

Best Sellers Rank: #15,280 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
#24 in Science Fiction Graphic Novels (Books)
#49 in Classic Action & Adventure (Books)
#54 in Humorous American Literature

This is for the paperback edition. No graphic novel edition is showing in the list of formats.

I guess it could be considered action/adventure, but that's certainly not how I think of it.

It's humor, yes, but since Douglas Adams was a British author, it's hardly an American novel.

HUH???

Dale wrote: "Riddle me this . . I wanted to get some ideas for tweaking my Amazon keywords for Space Operatic. Because it's humorous science fiction, I thought I'd see what categories The Hitchhiker's Guide..."

Thanks for bringing this up. Figuring out Amazon keywords and categories is like figuring out the meaning of life. It's not likely you will ever really figure it out. You may already know how you can add more than the 2 categories Amazon gives you initially and that it's good to look for categories that are relevant but not too crowded. My book is historical fiction which is kind of crowded so I picked a few others that might give me a fighting chance to be seen. So far, not so much luck.

The keywords are really perplexing. I tried to think like someone who might be looking for a book like mine but I wonder if I'm too close to it to be objective about how someone else would think. I put in all the obvious but most of that is covered by the categories. I've read lots of articles about what to do with keywords but it's all so general that it's left me more confused than before. I've also read you aren't limited to the 7 keywords they allow you. You can fill up the line but I've read conflicting advice that they should all be words that can be combined in many different ways or that it should be strings of words. Maybe non-fiction is easier. All in all I think the biggest obstacle is that there is so much competition. I hope someone else in this group has cracked the keyword/category code.

Bingo- I couldn't agree with you more. We (I handle my son's books) had one book in the paranormal category that stayed at number one in its category for close to a year. I didn't promote it much- because back then I was just learning. I did one press release, a few blog tours and the book hit number one almost with no effort. It stayed there without explanation and then one random day plummeted like a lead balloon. Nothing. I did propped the book up. I tried changing keywords, ads all over the place, you name it. It was simply at the disposal of the great and mighty 'zon and when they decided it shouldn't sell - it didn't.

Carole wrote: "Bingo- I couldn't agree with you more. We (I handle my son's books) had one book in the paranormal category that stayed at number one in its category for close to a year. I didn't promote it much- ..."

The whole thing is an enigma wrapped in a riddle. My paranoid self thinks the whole algorithm favors traditionally published books but I suppose they know all the tricks of the trade and how to get their books on Amazon's front page. I'm learning to let go and just do what I can, whatever that is.

I think they do get preference. I think for a bit when Createspace was introduced and the 'zon needed material for Kindle, indie authors had a chance to get noticed and make some money. Then I think when traditionally published authors realized they could cut out the publishing houses, publishers had to figure out a strategy to keep in-house authors engaged. I think they approached the powers that be and expressed that traditional books have to take preference since they were spending the most on advertising.
I believe that was the beginning of the end. Createspace was dissolved and all the services were dispensed. Back when we started, they gave you a huge mailing list to publicize your book. They had packages you could purchase to help your book get noticed. Then one day, they started closing those things down, until all that was left was KDP.
It was at that point I noticed our sales tanked, going from six figures a year to a pittance of that-and I want to add that was despite my efforts to do more publicity-wise. I spent a small fortune on ads, and promotions until I realized I would never make it back.

Carole wrote: "I think they do get preference. I think for a bit when Createspace was introduced and the 'zon needed material for Kindle, indie authors had a chance to get noticed and make some money. Then I thin..."

I don't have nearly the investment in this that you do, Carol, but my very minimal experience mirrors yours. I stopped spending money on their ads some time ago, calculating how much I put in versus how much it generated. It's disheartening to know that someone as knowledgeable and experienced as you are has not been able to sustain those sales despite all your efforts. I'm sorry. It must be frustrating.

Carmel wrote: "Carole wrote: "I think they do get preference. I think for a bit when Createspace was introduced and the 'zon needed material for Kindle, indie authors had a chance to get noticed and make some mon..."

I tried the Amazon ads for just a two-week period of time. Maybe wasn't long enough but I think it was long enough to know I'd never know what I should do to make them work. I just did it so Amazon set the parameters. I believe you can set your own but w/o a tutorial on how to do that I don't have a clue. You have to set bid amounts and I just don't get what they are doing. You would think they'd make it easier so it might enhance sales since Amazon would benefit from more sales. But it doesn't seem so.

What I learned about promotion and ads, is that it's not the one thing you do, it's the million things you do. It's impossible to maintain and the cost never justifies the profit.

Carole wrote: "What I learned about promotion and ads, is that it's not the one thing you do, it's the million things you do. It's impossible to maintain and the cost never justifies the profit."

You always need to keep it in perspective. There are a lot of things I would have liked to do in regards to writing, editing and marketing and if money were no object maybe I would. But money is always an object.

Totally agree.

Yeah, I ran some Amazon ads for Weasel Words over the past month. I did sell a few books, but nowhere near enough to make back the investment. I'm on a mailing list from a guy who does ads for others. I haven't bought any of his courses, just tried to glean what I could from his newsletters. He does an intensive course with a week of hand-holding. He says you'll need to have something like $800 to invest that you won't get back. I suppose that's the "tuition" so to speak, because it does take time to learn the ins and outs of making the ads work.

One bit of advice I saw from another person was that ads are usually only effective if you have either a fiction series or a sufficiently high-priced nonfiction book. I don't know if that's true, but it seems to make sense on the surface. I might try it again, with my Howard County Mystery series, closer to the release of the next installment. For now, I've stopped my ads.

Regarding Kindle keywords. Here's a link to Kindlepreneur video on keywords. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr5tL...

Carole wrote: "I think they do get preference. I think for a bit when Createspace was introduced and the 'zon needed material for Kindle, indie authors had a chance to get noticed and make some money. Then I thin..."

As always, your shared knowledge and experience are so valuable for us all.

Thanks to all contributors on this thread - so helpful and I've only just stumbled on it!

I just joined the Alliance of Independent Authors this week (https://www.allianceindependentauthor...). They had an interesting article about a data breach that exposed massive pay-for-reviews schemes involving products on Amazon. Amazon itself wasn't implicated, but their algorithms (it's suspected) may be giving a boost to products that have scam reviews. (This isn't just books. It's across all product lines sold on Amazon.)

I can't find the article now, but the way it works is, a seller contacts potential reviewers and offers them free products in exchange for a 5-star review. The reviewer buys the product on Amazon and posts the review, then the seller gives them a refund through channels outside of Amazon, so Amazon doesn't know the refund has been issued. Apparently, there is a huge volume of business done this way.

Dale wrote: "I just joined the Alliance of Independent Authors this week (https://www.allianceindependentauthor...). They had an interesting article about a data breach that exposed massive pay-for-reviews s..."

There's always a scam. Best practice is do not pay for reviews. I'm sure there are other best practices that others can tell us novices about. Thanks to everyone in this thread.

Never pay for reviews unless it's an editorial review. (one that won't be put on Amazon unless you put it in the editorial section).

Amazon will take down reviews if they think an author is paying for reviews or the review is written by family or friends.

It's a good thing "virtue is its own reward," because my experiences with Amazon are depressingly similar to yours. Thank you all for sharing. I'm heading back to my word processor and starting another book.