The Sword and Laser discussion

There's regularly items in Quick Burns that could be fun to discuss. But, that's a news thread intended for, well, quick burns. Easy solution: Let's have a thread to discuss! This will have the added side benefit of lessening aggravation for our mods who won't have to prune posts from that thread.

I'm'a start with the subject of Leviathan Wakes, which has now been pushed back two weeks. The suggestion is that this is due to paper shortages, altho it could also be editing or just plain staff shortage in the rollout.

And then there's the ebook distribution channel, which wouldn't be affected at all by a paper shortage. Make the books as big as you want! Electrons are weightless. Okay, they're really light. And in plentiful supply.

Anyhoo, The Expanse has been a library read all the way through so what will affect me is when the line drops to the point that I get the book. It's likely to be well into the new year.

Good idea! Rob's blood pressure owes you one.

I bought the print edition of Leviathan Wakes years ago, but I've read most of the rest of the Expanse novels in digital format. I decided to order the hardcover for Leviathan Falls from my local indy bookshop (they need the business), so I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer now.

I see shortages of many consumer products these days, so I don't disbelieve that books are having the same issue, it just seems odd.

Orbit Books just tweeted about the delay

https://twitter.com/orbitbooks/status...

Leviathan Falls is "receiving the biggest print run yet"

Yeah, I'm looking at the release day move and am wondering if it's intended to spike sales of books for Christmas. November 30th is right in time for the marketing of the release to coincide with the Christmas shopping season. For a book this long anticipated, I'm having a hard time believing they aren't ready.

There's a very real supply chain issue with book printing - a lot of authors and others in the industry have tweeted about it. Yes, they could release the ebook early but they likely want to coordinate the releases so they don't undercut stores. I mean, how would you feel if you were a bookstore losing sales because the print run wasn't ready but Amazon had the ebook?

I will say I was disappointed the book got pushed back. I have the audio, so I thought maybe there was an issue with the narrator, but I guess they just pushed all formats back to account for the physical copy problems.

Blame it on the oligomers...

https://www.vox.com/culture/22687960/...

Rob wrote: "I will say I was disappointed the book got pushed back. I have the audio, so I thought maybe there was an issue with the narrator, but I guess they just pushed all formats back to account for the p..."

the ebook is still on schedule. would suck if they also push it back.

My guess is they just haven't updated the dates everywhere yet. Amazon still shows me the hardcover coming out on the 14th (along with the ebook).

Mark wrote: "Blame it on the oligomers...

https://www.vox.com/culture/22687960/..."

Excellent article.

But also as I summarized: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Seth wrote: "Lit Hub picks the 25 most iconic book covers ever, and quite a few SFF covers make the list.

Full list here: https://lithub.com/the-25-most-iconic..."

Seems very US centric for a list of the most iconic book covers in history...

*shrugs*

Jan wrote: "Seth wrote: "Lit Hub picks the 25 most iconic book covers ever, and quite a few SFF covers make the list.

Full list here: https://lithub.com/the-25-most-iconic..."

Seems very US centric for a list of the most iconic book covers in history...

*shrugs..."

Yeah. And some of those aren’t actually good.

I don’t think this should be said to be “LitHub” as much as it is the ones liked by Emily, writer of the article.

I mean, what about the NC Wyeth cover of Treasure Island?


The White Dragon by Michael Whelan.


If there’s any justice, in the future people will regard Megan Wilson’s cover of Dracula as a classic.

Rob wrote: "Woo. Saga is coming back soon!

https://gizmodo.com/saga-is-making-a-..."

Woot.

This has made my day. Though we still have 3 months to wait.

Tassie Dave wrote: "Rob wrote: "Woo. Saga is coming back soon!

https://gizmodo.com/saga-is-making-a-..."

Woot.

This has made my day. Though we still have 3 months to w..."

Better than 6 months! Of course for me, I typically have consumed it via trades, which means I have about 9 months to wait, it not longer.

Without going into details, the way it ended left a bad taste in my mouth.

Tamahome wrote: "Without going into details, the way it ended left a bad taste in my mouth."

Agreed. But (view spoiler)[ Marko annoyed me over and over and was an idiot in that fight and deserved to die. (hide spoiler)]

I feel bad posting list articles in Quick Burns, but they're fun to read and argue about, so I'll post here. Most Influential Sci-Fi of All Time:
https://bookriot.com/the-most-influen...

I think the author did a pretty good job of injecting some diversity in their early picks, which is nice. Then there's a list of recent titles that the author considers could be influences on the future of the genre - some of which were S+L picks.

Seth wrote: "I feel bad posting list articles in Quick Burns, but they're fun to read and argue about, so I'll post here. Most Influential Sci-Fi of All Time:
https://bookriot.com/the-most-influen......"

Thanks for posting. I thought it was a little heavy on the manga but otherwise very good list.

I mean good potato vodka can be excellent. But my bet is this is just grain alcohol with some chemical flavoring. I’m sort of getting a gag reflex just thinking about it.

Edit: I guess I’m mistaken. https://stories.inspirebrands.com/arb...

And yes a bloody (Mary/ caesar) is the only drink this might have any chance of being good in.

Have any other SF&F tales have been nominated for a Grammy for Best Spoken Word Album?

Yes, but no SF&F tale has won the award and hardly any have been nominated in the 21st century. Also, Burton's 21st century performance of Aftermath, is for a book that was originally published in 1997.

Nominations: Year/Title/Artist

1974

Slaughterhouse Five Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

1977

Fahrenheit 451 Ray Bradbury
Foundation: The Psychohistorians William Shatner

1978

The Silmarillion Christopher Tolkien

1981

Adventures of Luke Skywalker: The Empire Strikes Back Original Cast

1982

Donovan's Brain Orson Welles

1983

Raiders of the Lost Ark: The Movie on Record Tom Voegeli
Foundation's Edge Isaac Asimov
2010: Odyssey Two Arthur C. Clarke

1987

Interview with the Vampire F. Murray Abraham
The Stories of Ray Bradbury Ray Bradbury
Gulliver (composed by Patrick Williams) John Gielgud

1988

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home Leonard Nimoy & George Takei

1989

A Christmas Carol John Gielgud

1990

Sir John Gielgud Reads Alice in Wonderland John Gielgud
The War of the Worlds 50th Anniversary Production Jason Robards, Steve Allen, Douglas Edwards & Cast

1991

"Diane..." The Twin Peaks Tapes of Agent Cooper Kyle MacLachlan

1992

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Douglas Adams

1993

A Christmas Carol Patrick Stewart

1996

I Am Spock Leonard Nimoy (ok this isn't SFF but Spock!!!)

1998

Contact Jodie Foster

2021

Charlotte's Web Meryl Streep & Full Cast

2022

Aftermath LeVar Burton

Mark wrote: "Have any other SF&F tales have been nominated for a Grammy for Best Spoken Word Album?

Yes, but no SF&F tale has won the award and hardly any have been nominated in the 21st century. Also, Burton'..."

So was there never an audiobook for this until now? Seems odd, given the prevalence of audiobooks and the fact Burton has been doing them for 30 years.

Trike wrote: "Mark wrote: "Have any other SF&F tales have been nominated for a Grammy for Best Spoken Word Album?

Yes, but no SF&F tale has won the award and hardly any have been nominated in the 21st century. ..."

There was an abridged audiobook early on, but I don't know if Burton was the narrator.

Burton was the reader of the abridged audiobook published in 1997.

Man now I’m curious what spoken word piece could beat Patrick Stewart’s “Christmas Carol”. I thought that reading was fairly mainstream, and well loved.

Oh, for 1992, not 1993. And while I barley remember the book that beat it out. Magic Johnson is a very good speaker, and talking on a subject as personal as AIDS, could be quite compelling.

From the Quick Burns thread on redditreads, the subreddits for TV & Film are full of very focused and some broader lists of genre books. Take a look at these:

https://www.redditreads.com/r/dune
https://www.redditreads.com/r/firefly
https://www.redditreads.com/r/gameoft...
https://www.redditreads.com/r/LV426
https://www.redditreads.com/r/scifi
https://www.redditreads.com/r/startrek

Paul posted Amal el-Mohtar’s recommended SFF for the year in the NYTimes, https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/bo..., and I found quite a few interesting so I put them on my library hold.

Just signal-boosting in case folks missed it.

Trike wrote: "Paul posted Amal el-Mohtar’s recommended SFF for the year in the NYTimes, https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/bo..., and I found quite a few interesting..."

I read that list last week when the article was published; as Paul mentioned the list was a breathe of fresh air - i.e. it was not a list of "the usual suspects".

Sadly there were a lot of reader comments on the article taking exception precisely because it did not contain "the usual suspects" :-(

That list is brilliant. Several of those are now on my want to read list. Thanks!

Trike wrote: "Freeman is a huge sci-fi fan, and he loves Rama in particular."

Oh, I know. I watched a season or two of his Science Channel show(s). And I was following his attempt to adapt it years ago. There was even concept art on their production company site.

Now I want a Morgan Freeman Rendezvous with Rama audiobook.

I bet that happens, leading up to the film, cause you just know the book will get some beautiful brand new editions.

Tamahome wrote: "Now I want a Morgan Freeman Rendezvous with Rama audiobook."

Tamahome wrote: "Now I want a Morgan Freeman Rendezvous with Rama audiobook."

Oh. God. Yes. Please.

What do y’all think about Chengdu, China as the venue for the 81st WorldCon in 2023? Are you likely to attend (COVID and geopolitics allowing)?

I’ve seen some Twitter Discourse about it which I can summarise thus:

Point: it’s great for Chinese SFF community to have a WorldCon they can actually get to, and it’ll help make the general SFF community more genuinely international.

Counter-point: China’s record on human rights and freedom of speech is Not Good so we shouldn’t have WorldCon there

Counter-counter-point: the con runners are not personally responsible for the actions of the Chinese government any more than the Discon runners are responsible for, say, Guantanamo Bay. Which, speaking of... the USA’s record on human rights ain’t exactly spotless so it’s a bit hypocritical to say WorldCon shouldn’t be held in China because of human rights concerns when this year it was held in Washington DC.

Personally, unless my circumstances change dramatically between now and then, I probably won’t be able to get to Chengdu in 2023 for logistical and cost reasons anyway, so any ethical dilemma is a moot point. I suspect the same thing may well be true for a lot of other western SFF fans and writers.

Ruth wrote: "Personally, unless my circumstances change dramatically between now and then, I probably won’t be able to get to Chengdu in 2023 for logistical and cost reasons anyway, so any ethical dilemma is a moot point."

Same here. There are lots of discussions about who should host big international events, it comes up a lot in sports with the next Olympics being held in China and the upcoming world cup in Qatar with stadiums built with indentured labor.

I don't view simple attendance at an event like this as some sort of complicity in China's actions. Rather the location is a great opportunity for the folks that attend to speak up about the stuff they don't like, just like some people spoke out about this year's awards being sponsored by Raytheon (a company that has an aerospace division, but also is a big defense contractor). As long as they feel free to express themselves about this stuff I think it's great to have it in new countries.

I voted for Chengdu and have been planning to come since I was in their Zoom room in last year's ConNZ. Mighty glad they won since it would be the nearest WorldCon I could actually attend, living in Asia :)

Any writers who speak up against China will be in deep dog doo. Those from (most) Western countries will probably be physically safe but they’ll suddenly find their book sales nonexistent. Writers who fall under China’s purview can’t speak up or they and their families could be disappeared.

China is currently purging famous and rich people. Movie and TV stars as well as musicians have gone missing. Imagine Serena Williams suddenly vanishing after accusing someone of sexual harassment, then after a month reappears under strictly controlled supervision, retracting everything. That’s what happened to tennis athlete Peng Shuai.

Not only has Peng been forced to retract her accusation, she has been completely erased from China’s internet. Other famous people who don’t have organizations like the International Olympic Committee looking out for them are just gone. A couple actors on the level of Anya Taylor-Joy or Regina King have received that treatment. Even their version of Bezos/Musk/Zuckerberg, multi-billionaire Jack Ma, was swept up by the government and was missing for months. His reappearance was likewise accompanied by clearly fake contrition and retractions of previous statements.

Pretty sure authors will just vanish.

What I don't like is that governments basically seem to outsource opposition to China to private citizens - like atletes and authors - and those who are actually in charge do very little aside from lip service...

Also, what do you think about the protest regarding the WorldCon sponsorship by a military contractor? I am conflicted, because I am not sure they are so much worse than any other large corporation...

While I have not kept up with everything they have there hands in, Raytheon has a pretty broad stroke that they participate in. It very much a big contractor for the US military, but it also does a lot of other work for the government. About 15 years ago I was looking into trying to work down in Antarctica, and the main employer is Raytheon. I wasn’t super comfortable with this, but came to terms with. I only tried hard one year to get in, and didn’t make the cut, but I had to think about what else they did, and made. From what I understand they have even expanded more now, and have there hands in even more areas. While they are definitely best known as a defense contractor and employer, how much different is this then taking sponsorship money from another company that makes products for the military as well as others, like a GE for example. I’m not saying there isn’t a difference between the two, just curious about the discussion of where the line is.

In some ways it would be great to require that WorldCon only occur in countries that are open free and fair. That would exclude all the great powers, USA, China and Russia at the moment. On further consideration it excludes almost all countries except, possibly, Scandinavian ones.

As an Australian I have no interest in visiting China or the US at the moment.

Now I feel even more down than usual.

There are no good answers when it comes to world wide conventions. Access and speech are not freely available to all participants no matter where they are located.

Asserting that because all countries have issues that they are then all morally equivalent is... interesting logic.

It's also ridiculous. Equating a totalitarian country like China with the US, the EU or Oz is either naive or... well, I don't say those words here. Let's just say it's a special kind of moral blindness. And that's not to deny the very real issues in the US or elsewhere... none of which are remotely like the treatment of the Uighers or other issues within China.

Rick wrote: "Asserting that because all countries have issues that they are then all morally equivalent is... interesting logic.

It's also ridiculous. Equating a totalitarian country like China with the US, t..."

I said "open, free and fair". This is not asserting equivalence so stop adding straw man arguments that are not there.

The US is not, and hasn't been, open for people from many countries so is not suitable for international conventions and conferences. This happens all the time to people who do not have the right colour of skin. If you are hosting an international conference/convention one of the criteria for hosting should be allowing everyone in.

For the moment host them in Canada if you want one in North America.

The EU for the most part does not fall into this category.

(I will avoid commenting on the fact that the US does not qualify as a full democracy at this point in time.)

Even though I am conflicted, I see both the Olympics and big conventions like this as great opportunities to visit these countries and humanise each other.
The authors there my not be able to speak up on the podiums, but this will be a chance for visitors to talk to chinese people face to face and vice versa. Any kind of exchange is an absolute boon to better understanding.
This then hopefully leads to those visitors going back to their own countries and take whatever political actions they can, even if it is as small as voting for the party that actually wants to change the status quo.
Grass Roots and all that.

Richard posted about Neal Stephenson on the Make Me Smart show on NPR, mentioning that Molly Wood had left. I didn’t recall her so I googled, and look at the interesting little tidbit that popped up alongside it:


https://ibb.co/tmhPZjn

I’m not sure if you are joking or not, but I’m going to assume you are being serious. A good junk of us, at least those who have been around for a long while first listened to Tom and eventually Veronica on the old cnet podcast from the mid 2000’s called “Buzz Out Loud” co hosted by Molly. It was a daily tech show, and while Tom was a cohost with Molly from the beginning, Veronica was the producer/ engineer. Until she spoke up one day, and was encouraged to keep doing it.

While. Have not followed Molly much since then, This last summer I started listening to the newer podcast she does with Tom called “It’s a Thing”. It’s a short weekly podcast about a couple of gen-xers trying to keep up with what’s popular, or up and coming. Mostly in consumerism, but some other areas as well. And as happens in most good shows it is there personalities that keep you around as much or more so then the actual content.

I had no idea, which is why I found it interesting.

Trike wrote: "THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT NEWS!!!1!!

There will be a new Wallace & Gromit film in 2024, coming to Netflix everywhere except the UK, where it will be on BBC.

https://www.polygon.com/22893029/wallace-..."

I CONCUR WITH THE HONOURABLE GENTLMEN, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT NEWS!

For what is a such a quintessentially British "show" it pleases me greatly that it translates well for viewers on "the other side of the pond" :-)

John wrote: "Trike wrote: "THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT NEWS!!!1!!

There will be a new Wallace & Gromit film in 2024, coming to Netflix everywhere except the UK, where it will be on BBC.

https://www.polygon.com/228..."

The real question here is: when are we getting a Flushed Away sequel?

Iain posted:

Iain wrote: "In the UK a new measure of inflation has taken its name from Terry Pratchett's work. The Sam Times Boot index has been designed by Jack Monroe to better reflect the impact of inflation on the poorest members of society.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...

https://www.tor.com/2022/01/26/terry-...

Twitter index, which has an approriate Sam Vimes level of suppressed fury. https://mobile.twitter.com/BootstrapC...”

Reading the links makes me wonder how the UK determined its Consumer Price Index. Apparently the conservatives there added champagne to the index, which… what?

In the US, the CPI is determined by tracking what people actually buy. The grocery portion isn’t perfect, but it’s my understanding that a bunch of families are chosen, asked to track their purchases for a couple-three weeks, and that’s used to update the CPI. So it’s a constantly moving target rather than looking at the price change of a single item over time.

For example, if in 1980 people purchased more beef products than they did in 2020, the CPI would reflect that change, so it’s not often a 1-to-1 comparison. The foods I’ve eaten over that time frame have changed, so my personal CPI has, too. I don’t mean that I’ve added champagne to my diet, but rather that I now buy far more salmon and turkey than I did 30 years ago. So it’s hard to directly compare groceries I bought this week to ones I bought in 1992.

That said, it’s still based on *actual* purchasing, not items decided on by richie-rich muckety-mucks for whatever reason. And of course, some things *will* remain the same over time. People are still buying milk and bread nowadays in similar patterns and amounts that their grandparents did.

Trike wrote: "Iain posted:

Iain wrote: "In the UK a new measure of inflation has taken its name from Terry Pratchett's work. The Sam Times Boot index has been designed by Jack Monroe to better reflect the impac..."

This podcast (presented by economist and author Tim Harford with Jack Monroe as a guest) has a good explanation of how the index is calculated and how it’s ended up being unreflective of the situation of the poorest households: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00...

The tl;dl is the index is calculated by the Office of National Statistics and the basket of goods is chosen to reflect “typical” household spending. It includes all sorts of things- not just groceries but also electronics, air travel, energy bills... the problem is when the prices of basic foodstuffs rise disproportionately.

Latest news is that the ONS has decided to change its methodology to take this into account https://www.theguardian.com/business/...

The situation in the UK is pretty grim for a lot of people but campaigns by the likes of Monroe and Marcus Rashford provide some glimmer of hope. The Vimes Boot Index has really broken through into the popular consciousness and I’m sure Pratchett would be proud. GNU Sir Pterry.