Tournament of Books discussion

Round 8: Milkman v. Exit West judged by Bryn

It is my great honor to render a judgement between Milkman and Exit West. I read both books when they were released, in 2019 and 2017, and I have just finished a reread. In both reads I gave both books 5 stars, so how will I decide which one will advance in The Tournament of Favorites and which one will not? We all know that judging a book at this level of excellence will always be very subjective. One of them will be slightly more thrilling to me as a reader; slightly more of an enjoyable read.

I first reread Milkman. Anna Burns’ book takes place in Belfast in the 1970’s and concerns the violence between the British and the Irish. The book is quite daunting in some ways. It’s long, it has long and rambling sentences, paragraphs, and chapters; there are very few proper nouns of any kind used. For me, the lack of breaks in the text added to the effect of the never ending guerrilla war being fought. The lack of proper nouns was so fascinating to me. The place is never named. I’ve often wondered if I had read this book knowing absolutely nothing about it, how long would it have taken me to figure out it was Belfast? There are no names of cities or countries in the book. They do call England the country across the water and one huge plot point is a piece of a Blower Bentley that ends up in the home of a main character. I had to look that up. I know that Bentleys are made in England but a Blower Bentley is a famous and rare race car that they made. The only other proper names are a long list of first names that no one in Belfast would ever name their child as they are the names of posh English people.
Our main character is middle sister. She is 18 and spends some time with maybe boyfriend. Maybe boyfriend is a car mechanic and obtains the part of the Blower Bentley and is threatened by renouncers of the state because of the country it is from. It’s not possible to not be on one side or the other. Our main character has a job but we never find out what it is. From the very first paragraph, we know that the milkman is a paramilitary renouncer of the state and he pursues her everywhere. It’s just sinister enough to be really scary but he never actually touches her or forces her to do anything. He’s just always there. He knows where she will be at all hours and is always there. We also know from the very first paragraph that he is killed and that Somebody McSomebody tries to kill our 18 year old girl but is stopped.

The families of these characters are explained in detail. Middle sister lives with her ma and 3 wee sisters. She also has 6 or 7 older siblings. We are never sure if there are 3 or 4 boys until finally it is explained that 1 boy lived with them as an adolescent and was like a son. The father has died of illness and one of the sons has been killed by the British. There is almost a competition to see which family has had the most tragedy. The father was in and out of mental hospitals and on his deathbed says he was repeatedly raped as a child. We spend some time with ma contemplating the unhappiness of marrying the wrong person. Somebody McSomebody, who ma wants middle sister to marry until he tries to kill her, has many more family tragedies; suicide, poisoning, falling out of a window. His sister is tablets girl who also tries to kill middle sister by poison. Maybe boyfriend has been left alone in his parents’ house since they went off on the ballroom dance circuit. What a wacky bunch of characters! Then there are the people beyond the pale; the issues women, the man who didn’t love anyone, and our own middle sister. She is a dreamy sort. She is roundly criticized for reading while walking, taking a French class, and looking at sunsets, none very practical activities when you are being pursued by paramilitary.

So much about this book is fascinating! The names of some characters change. The man who didn’t love anyone becomes Real Milkman – because he is. Our main paramilitary goes from the milkman to Milkman to oh my God his name really is Milkman. And what does it mean that very few people or places are named? I think it points to the universality of the struggle with difference and bigotry and imperialism. There is a story but not much of one. The ongoing political struggle is there all day every day for everyone. And yet all hope is not lost. The humorous way the book is written and the hope that kind of comes at the end with ma finally finding love and middle sister finding a sense of freedom and possibility are just dazzling.

Exit West is also dazzling in its own way. It’s a relatively short and simple book that has some similarities with Milkman. The city our heroes start off in is also not named. It’s Muslim although that is not really stated either. The author, Mohsin Hamid, is from Lahore, Pakistan. In an interview he says the city may be Lahore, but it also could be 5 other cities in the Middle East where there have been wars between militants and the established governments with countless refugees leaving in hope of a better life somewhere else. This is another similarity to Milkman – the focus on militant struggle between groups. Nadia and Saeed meet at the beginning when things are still sort of normal in their city; they have regular jobs and friends and they start seeing each other. As the city starts to become more and more dangerous Nadia moves in with Saeed and his father after his mother has been killed.

The really crazy and beautiful thing about the novel is that there are mysterious doors everywhere all over the world where you can instantly be in a completely different country. The location of the doors is always changing and is always a mystery until you can find a guide who knows where they are. The young couple go to Mykonos, then London, and finally Marin County through the doors. But the book also has little vignettes dispersed here and there of random refugees who’ve ended up in really diverse places – Australia, Japan, Dubai, Vienna, etc.

Both books also focus on a woman amidst a war. What is her place when the main instigators are men who don’t want her to participate? Middle sister tries to escape by reading. Nadia wears the long robes of the religious but she does it so that men will not bother her.

The book is beautifully written. We are all migrants through both space and time Hamid is saying. But here I am not really able to say anything else about Exit West. It’s beautiful but doesn’t really dazzle me the way Milkman does.

Milkman wins!!

Greetings all, I'm here wearing my survey-maker hat to tell you the status on the Zombies now that we've reached the end of the first round.

If the Zombie round happened today, our reanimated favorites would be The Animators and Life After Life .

Alas, this is the end of the Tournament of Favorites for some truly beloved books. Goodbye to Idaho, Girl, Woman, Other, There There, Never Let Me Go, Nothing to See Here, and Exit West. You were all very loved to make it to this point!

For the stats nerds and those that were paying attention when I talked about seeding... yes, these results show that holding a separate Zombie poll (in which readers could vote for only a single book) did lead to different Zombies than just using the second round voting (in which people could vote for up to sixteen) would have.

As an example: Never Let Me Go was a 1 seed: one of the top four vote-getters in the second round. It was not in the top half in the final Zombie poll. I'll give lots more details about the interesting ways that things might have turned out differently in alternate universes with different poll structure at the end of this whole thing. Suffice to say that poll structure did matter.

Get excited! The second round starts tomorrow!

I'm very sad about Never Let Me Go, which was one of my favorites. I'm having trouble, er, letting it go.

Great write-up. Two wonderful books, really enjoyed Exit West and loved the magic of it all. But Milkman is Milkman, and I can't even describe how it does what it does. But it does it better than most books do anything.

As Kip says, Milkman is Milkman and IMO deserved to win over 'Exit West' which personally I felt wasn't filled out enough for me, like I think much of speculative fiction isn't... I like when they are detailed much more than this one. I loved the concept, but the book didn't live up to it. But Milkman! You complicated thing.

Maggie, thanks for keeping up with the zombie tradition along the lines of the real TOB. This is interesting, as most of my personal not-favorites are now officially gone, and the remainder of the matches will be FIERCE. Most of these are my actual favorites! I will be happy if most of these books win in the end!

I adored both these books, and I'm sad they were paired against each other, but of course Milkman was always going to win (although I know there were readers here that didn't feel as drawn to the story.) I'm sad we didn't get more time to talk about EW, but I'm glad this match was judged by someone who appreciated both, and that in the end she chose the more complex and stunning of two complex and stunning stories.

EW blew me away when I read it, right in the heat of the early 2017 refugee crisis, when so many of us were feeling such immense despair. I know my general terror at the time had a lot to do with my love for it. Imagining the borders were porous, seeing what might happen in that world, how it might affect the meaning of citizenship...it was something I needed when I was grappling with what was actually happening to our country and in the world, imagining what could be. And the writing flowed so beautifully, it was like a song. The book just transported me.

I think some people had a hard time accepting the magical realism, how it distanced us from the visceral tragedy and terror that's suffered in real life. I totally get that, and might feel the same way if I was reading it today. In the end it's an optimistic book, and maybe the optimism minimizes the reality. But I still think he had so much to say, with a really unique perspective that I admired so much. I fell in love with this book.

(I do want to read Milkman again, this time on paper. I'd actually bought the book and started on paper, but my mind kept drifting till I tried the audio. Maybe because of that, I remember the details of EW so much more, even though I read Milkman more recently. Most of what I remember of Milkman is the lovely lilt of the narrator's voice, and a general sense of visceral dread, and then how it felt to finish the book and think, WOW.)

Bryn wrote: "It is my great honor to render a judgement between Milkman and Exit West. I read both books when they were released, in 2019 and 2017, and I have just finished a reread."

SCORE!!! Oh my, Bryn, I think you are secretly reading my mind. I have nothing to add to what you've written - loved both books, and would choose Milkman to advance. (And Milkman says "bring it on, Stephen")

Kip wrote: "Great write-up. Two wonderful books, really enjoyed Exit West and loved the magic of it all. But Milkman is Milkman, and I can't even describe how it does what it does. But it does it better than most books do anything."

What a perfect way to put it! Milkman hasn't faded in my memory over time. One of those books that has a specific experience while reading that so many books don't have.

I really loved both of these books when I read/listened to them (read Milkman, listened to Exit West) and while I might re-read Exit West again, it didn't leave much more than a remembered impression of emotions and the interesting 'doors' device. Milkman has stuck with me and I still think fondly of middle sister walking-while-reading and the (high pitched) greek chorus of the wee-sisters while shuddering at the gaslighting and implacable menace of Milkman stalking middle sister while the town judged her. I'm happy Milkman is moving onwards!

Oh, man. Milkman. It still rattles me when I think of it. It proved to me once more that writers aren't done innovating and discovering completely new ways to tell a story.

Let me add a caveat that I found Milkman unreadable on the page and I absolutely adored the audiobook which unlocked the book for me, and let me into this extraordinary world. If I hadn't had the audio option I'd be as baffled as the Milkman-haters.

Exit West felt very accomplished to me but it didn't rattle me. I've learned after many years of TOB that I really value innovation and newness in literature above all else and that was Milkman for me.

Okay Bryn. You passed the test, and you can stop looking over your shoulder! Thanks for picking the right book, and not that one from the country across the water.

Well, shoot. All the ones I've read and enjoyed are out. Looks like I need to up my game and discover some of the ones who beat them! Wait...except Milkman, I did enjoy that one. So glad it won this round!

Like Lark, I was completely enamored by the audio version of Milkman. No mistaking which country we're in, thanks to the luscious Irish Brogue of the reader, actor Brid Brennan, who did such a stellar job. I am now on a mission to watch her every movie. Also like Lark, I can't help but wonder if the print would have defeated me, but it was hard for me to tear myself away from the audio - I wish I could have listened to all 14 hours, non-stop ;)

I've realized that Milkman is one of my favorite books ever, and am grateful to the ToF for reminding me of how much I love experiencing that book on audio, and rooting for our reading-while-walking protagonist, the wee sisters, and the mom.

I haven't participated in the ToF much because I had read all the books on their first go-round, and rereading is not my priority, but I am enjoying following along. The ToF judgments have been outstanding. What an amazing community of readers we have here!

Nadine wrote: "I can't help but wonder if the print would have defeated me..."

If the print didn't defeat me, I'm certain it wouldn't defeat you. Sure, it took me the better part of three weeks but I got it done. Honestly, anyone that finishes Milkman, print or audio, deserves an I FINISHED MILKMAN badge/t-shirt.

Even though it lost, this judgment has made me regret not re-reading Exit West. I'm tentatively adding it to my maybe I'll reread it pile. Also glad to see Animators leading the Z poll!

Bob wrote: "Honestly, anyone that finishes Milkman, print or audio, deserves an I FINISHED MILKMAN badge/t-shirt."

I read the eBook - difficult but so good!, then I read Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland - fascinating and scary. And THEN I listened to Milkman which was astounding.

I'm team-middle-sister all the way.

So many people have told me how great the Milkman audiobook is. I really have to get to that one day! And yes Say Nothing is on my shelf staring at me. Did I mention how much real joy Milkman brought me? Ma finding love. The goofy wee sisters. Middle sister reading while walking. I worked with a 3rd grader last year who read while walking and every time I saw her I giggled.

Loved Milkman. You'll hear no complaint from me on this one.

Ellen wrote: "I'm very sad about Never Let Me Go, which was one of my favorites. I'm having trouble, er, letting it go."

I understand. It will never, for me, be "Goodbye, Idaho". I also thought NLMG was beautiful and haunting.

Risa wrote: "Ellen wrote: "I'm very sad about Never Let Me Go, which was one of my favorites. I'm having trouble, er, letting it go."

I understand. It will never, for me, be "Goodbye, Idaho". I also thought NL..."

Idaho...one that will haunt me forever. Absolutely loved it. Will absolutely need to read it again some day.

Bryn wrote: "So many people have told me how great the Milkman audiobook is. I really have to get to that one day! And yes Say Nothing is on my shelf staring at me. Did I mention how much real joy Milkman broug..."

I had a little trouble with the audio but mostly because there is so much going on, it was difficult to catch everything with an accent and no pauses to re-read. To that end, I much preferred the print version but I'm sure YMMV.

Justice! Milkman's first round exit was one of the great gaffes in ToB history. The fact of the book's difficulty is part of what makes it so strong. But it's not just difficult for the sake of it, it uses its unique form to grip the story on to you as you read it, mirroring the uncomfortable milieu of middle sister.

I enjoyed Exit West too, more because Hamid is such an appealing writer than because of the story itself. As time has passed the story seems problematic to me, right down to the title even. I can't really articulate it more than that. I guess I'm just not that turned on by the idea that we can sort of teleport to some better western place. The characters predicament may be real, but the device that 'exits' them isn't.

Nicholas wrote: "Justice! ..."

Spoken too soon.

Tim wrote: "Nicholas wrote: "Justice! ..."

Spoken too soon."

Haha Hey at least it survived the first round this time. I realized that might be the extent of the justice

Tim wrote: "Nicholas wrote: "Justice! ..."

Spoken too soon."

happy to see the voters will give it another shot! (so far)