Reading the 20th Century discussion

I'm setting up this thread because I'm always coming across books or authors who I haven't read before and wondering a) if I'd like them and b) where to start if they have an extensive back catalogue.

I'm sure someone amongst the lovely people here will be able to enlighten me and help :)

To kick off, I haven't read any Tessa Hadley and am wondering where would be a good place to start?

I have only read one, The Past, which I quite liked but don't remember well - a group read in 21st Century Literature a few years ago.

I've tried a couple The London Train and another that I couldn't finish The Master Bedroom. I'd second Hugh in that I didn't find her work very memorable. It's well-crafted, no fireworks, sort of like Anne Tyler only less distinctive. But there's a new title of hers on Netgalley at the moment so might be worth trying that to see what you think.

I thought The London Train was excellent.

Thanks all - I knew I'd get some helpful pointers here. Hmm, I've only read one Anne Tyler (Vinegar Girl) - maybe I'll check out the library first.

I read Vinegar Girl because it was one of the Hogarth Shakespeare retellings. My sweet dad was a Shakespeare devotee and would have told me not to waste time with the novel, just read The Taming of the Shrew. Apparently, Dad would have been right because it was a 3 star read for me.

I wish I loved American women authors like I love British women authors. I’m sure there are wonderful American women writers, but for some reason none that I’ve read has encouraged me to read more of their work.

WndyJW wrote: "I read Vinegar Girl because it was one of the Hogarth Shakespeare retellings. My sweet dad was a Shakespeare devotee and would have told me not to waste time with the novel, just read The Taming of the Shrew."

That's why I read it too and would have to agree with your dad - it was more sugar, less vinegar, and didn't confront the provocations of the play.

WndyJW wrote: "... I’m sure there are wonderful American women writers, but for some reason none that I’ve read has encouraged me to read more of their work."

Gosh! That's too bad. I haven't read Vinegar Girl, but I have liked Anne Tyler sometimes for her quirky characters. If she's not your cup of tea, here are a few of my favorite American women authors:
Toni Morrison
Ursula Le Guin
Marilynne Robinson
Maxine Hong Kingston
Jesmyn Ward
Shirley Jackson

I do have Vinegar Girl, but only because I was asked to look through books for a village fete, and told I could take what I wanted, looks like it might go to a charity shop unread. I did get some goodies, but tried not to be too greedy.

I love Toni Morrison, Jesmyn Ward, and Alice Walker. I’ve only read a few Shirley Jackson’s horror stories, but she’s brilliant. I would like to read more American women, but I’ve yet to find any I enjoy as much as Hilary Mantel, Muriel Spark, Penelope Lively, Penelope Fitzgerald, Jane Gardam, Rose Tremain, Anita Brookner, Elizabeth Taylor, AS. Byatt, Barbara Comyn, Sylvia Townsend Warner.

I’m sure there authors here as good, I just haven’t read enough American women to discover favorites. I do like Alice Hoffman.

Roman Clodia wrote: "WndyJW wrote: "I read Vinegar Girl because it was one of the Hogarth Shakespeare retellings. My sweet dad was a Shakespeare devotee and would have told me not to waste time with the novel, just rea..."

In spite of knowing my dad would scoff at these I have all the Hogarth Shakespeare published so far. Dunbar: William Shakespeare's King Lear Retold: A Novel, Shylock Is My Name, Hag-Seed, were all okay. I couldn’t finish Macbeth because I’m just not a crime reader, and I have yet to start New Boy or The Gap of Time.

That's interesting, Taneja discusses the Atwood in Aftermath and she clearly finds it very problematic.

I thought Hag-Seed was very clever in how it was in dialogue with The Tempest, even keener now to get to Aftermath - Taneja taught in prisons, I think, as does the main character in Hag-Seed.

The Hogarth Macbeth was dire and New Boy ridiculous as it was a version of Othello where everyone is a child of 11!

Taneja's not that keen on Atwood in general, or at least that's the impression I get. In the last few years there's been growing criticism of her work in terms of representation, or lack of, and race/identity. Taneja references for example articles that examine The Handmaid's Tale from this perspective

https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/an...

Taneja talks about the way in which many contemporary readings and retellings of The Tempest focus on Prospero as a symbol of colonial power and centre on Caliban's experiences, whereas Atwood reinstates Prospero as the key figure and moves away from postcolonial/anti-colonialist interpretations. Taneja sees the result as very much a white saviour narrative.

This article is enlightening and I’m ashamed to admit that none of what this writer said occurred to me while reading A Handmaid’s Tale or since.

I don’t want to “cancel” Atwood, but I wish she had addressed the injustice of being named co-winner of the Booker, the only time that has happened, when the first black woman won. Not only was The Testaments not a worthy winner it was an awful thing to do to Bernadine Evaristo. I don’t blame Atwood for accepting the prize, she wouldn’t have had time to think about what was happening, but afterwards she could have addressed the controversy. The rules were broken and they were broken to give a white woman a lifetime award with the same prize that the first black woman won for her book, which is what the Booker is meant to do-celebrate a book.

Alwynne wrote: "Taneja's not that keen on Atwood in general, or at least that's the impression I get. In the last few years there's been growing criticism of her work in terms of representation, or lack of"

Yes, I think that's a fair criticism looking across the books I've read by Atwood. I did notice how the Handmaid series made explicit the debt to the underground railroad as well as more diverse casting.

However (and with the caveat that it's some years since I read it), I'm less inclined to agree that the Prospero in Hag-Seed is a white saviour figure, partly because he's actually depicted as foolish (he's a theatre director and did a previous production of The Winter's Tale where Hermione is a zombie or vampire or something!), and because he thinks he has control over the narrative but actually all kinds of other interpretations that decentre his are allowed a place in the book overall. Yes, it does move away from the C20th post-colonial interpretations to some extent but it's still very much about power and how it circulates.

I'd also suggest that it takes an interesting perspective by giving us multiple 'Calibans' who are the prisoners who have strong and individual voices in the text. Their readings of Tempest are given lots of space and are frequently more probing, curious and creative than that of the director.

Incidentally, the idea of making Caliban an island native and Black itself has an interesting history. The Shakespearean text itself has hints of Irishness in Caliban (especially in the mention of his cloak which was associated with Celtic-ness) which was a vexed topic at the time when British plantations were being established in Ireland and native Irish being dispossessed of land - another instance of predatory colonialism. The cloak which could double as a form of tent and blanket was especially used as a potent symbol of homelessness.

All of which makes me even keener to get to Taneja. I know the first draft of We That Are Young was her PhD thesis (creative writing).

Has anyone read...


Gwendoline Riley?


Her My Phantoms (2021) got a huge thumbs up from Andy on the Backlisted podcast today

He certainly piqued my interest


Bridget's mother is dying. An extrovert with few friends who has sought intimacy in the wrong places; a twice-divorced mother-of-two now living alone surrounded by her memories, Helen (known to her acquaintances as 'Hen') has always haunted her daughter. Now, as together they approach the end, Bridget looks back on their tumultuous relationship - the performances and small deceptions - and tries to reckon with the cruelties inflicted on both sides.

With so little time left, can these two warring women find a bruised accord?

Ooh yes, My Phantoms is one of my books of the year! No spoilers in my review here: www.goodreads.com/review/show/3931712261

I read First Love a few years ago when it was shortlisted for the Goldsmiths Prize. Probably won't read My Phantoms until the paperback is out,

Thanks RC - great review too. BOTY eh? High praise


Thanks Hugh

Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Taneja's not that keen on Atwood in general, or at least that's the impression I get. In the last few years there's been growing criticism of her work in terms of representation, or..."

She also studied Theology, Philosophy of Religion and one other subject - can't remember what at Cambridge - and I think part of this builds on that too, not in an explicitly religious sense but in the approach she takes to her lament, reminds me of articles I've seen on the Book of Lamentations, ritual responses to trauma and postcolonial theory.

Good point about "The Tempest" been a while since I've read it. I haven't looked at the Atwood so interesting to hear your thoughts on it. I'm not sure Taneja sees Prospero in isolation as the major problem so much as the way the whole text is angled. I'm not a huge fan of Atwood so not familiar with her work beyond the obvious novels like 'The Handmaid's Tale' and 'Cat's Eye'.

Nigeyb wrote: "Has anyone read...


Gwendoline Riley?


Her My Phantoms (2021) got a huge thumbs up from Andy on the Backlisted podcast today

He certainly piqued my interest


Bri..."

No but I'll definitely get to it at some point, I really like Riley's writing in general.

What about A.S. Byatt? I've read and really liked her Possession but have never read anything else by her - what would anyone recommend?

Her short stories look appetising, especially the mythological/fairy tale/uncanny collections - any favourites or tips of what to avoid from anyone here?

I've never tried the short stories, I liked Possession but mainly the territory she's covering, I tried another one and found it a bit dry, a bit like her sister's work. But the stories do sound promising.

Okay realise I've read three of hers, and I enjoyed The Children's Book, it's a bit clunky and, again, dry but got caught up in all the detail around Eric Gill and his circle.

I have read all of Byatt's fiction, and liked most of it - she does like lengthy digressions but they are always interesting and erudite. Possession is probably the most original of her books, but I really enjoyed the Frederica quartet (The Virgin in the Garden, Still Life, Babel Tower and A Whistling Woman) too.

The Little Black Book of Stories is probably the best introduction to the short stories.

i really liked Possession too, also The Children's Book which is another historical novel with a lot about writers - I wasn't so keen on The Biographer's Tale which is a bit dry and includes a lot of research about eugenics and taxonomies, as far as I remember. I know I've read several others of hers in the more distant past but don't remember them very well.

Not sure if this will help with the stories R C,

https://lithub.com/magnificent-hybrid...

Thanks everyone! I'm sure I have The Children's Book picked up as a Kindle offer but think I'll try her short stories as they sound fantastic according to David Mitchell (great link, Alwynne!), so will take Hugh's recommendation of The Little Black Book of Stories :)

I loved Possession. I have The Children's Book, but haven't got to it yet. Am not a great fan of short stories, although I am currently enjoying Mick Herron's recent collection.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Thanks everyone! I'm sure I have The Children's Book picked up as a Kindle offer but think I'll try her short stories as they sound fantastic according to David Mitchell (great link, Alwynne!), so ..."

Glad it helped. And Hugh thanks for the rec of the Frederica series, will definitely check on that one.

I really loved The Children’s Book.

Good to hear, WndyJW.

It’s very much anchored in time. I told my mother it would be good for her Blue Stockings book club because it covers so much of the Victorian and Edwardian periods. Through the stories of a group of families and friends, all writers, artists, or craftsmen who discuss life and art, we learn about social movements, new developments in arts and crafts, and the changing world as the WWI looms.
I should reread it, now that Im thinking about it.

Who's read Emily St. John Mandel? Which of her books would you recommend as a first read, and do they have to be read in order?

I'm intrigued by her latest Sea of Tranquility (love that cover) but I've seen reviews suggesting it works better if you've already read her Station Eleven and The Glass Hotel.

I've only read one RC.


Station Eleven....an intriguingly structured slice of dystopian fiction.

The non-linear plot, which features interconnected characters, felt unnecessarily convoluted. That said, it’s inventive and fun, though not a story that has lingered long in my memory.

I have read Station Eleven and the Glass Hotel but probably won't read the new one until the paperback is available. Station Eleven is the best starting point and the better of the two.

I read the latest one which I wasn't that impressed by, a few of my GR friends who are fans say it's weaker than the earlier ones.

Thanks everyone. Station Eleven sounds like the one, looks like a good commute read.

This morning I listened to the latest Tea or Books? Podcast; one of the books under discussion was A Helping Hand by Celia Dale, which has recently been rereleased by Daunt Books. Has anyone read this? It sounds like it would appeal to fans of Celia Fremlin, and was called an early example of domestic thriller.

Tania wrote: "This morning I listened to the latest Tea or Books? Podcast; one of the books under discussion was A Helping Hand by Celia Dale, which has recently been rereleased b..."

No but only because I thought it sounded like quite a grim story and I'm not in the mood for one at the moment, but she used to be published by Virago when they did a classic crime series and have heard a lot of good things about her writing. Think this or some of her others are on Archive.Org

Thanks Alwynne, I'll take a look. Daunt Books do some lovely editions though.

Tania wrote: "Thanks Alwynne, I'll take a look. Daunt Books do some lovely editions though."

I know, wasn't this one listed in their recent books of the year? But I'm trying to rehome various books at the moment, they're taking over the space, so don't want to buy anymore for a while. And at this time of year try to funnel spare cash to charities in time for Christmas, my local animal shelters and food banks are very low on resources at the moment.

Edit: sounds a bit virtue-signalling but it's more I can't cope with the guilt, find it hard to enjoy this time of year these days, just makes me worry about people freezing or children not having enough to eat. Or people not able to buy their child a present.

I know what you mean, I heard someone on the radio the other day saying there was no point in giving presents that would only end up in charity shops in a fortnight, so their family were cutting out the middle man and giving straight to charity. Sounds very sensible. (Different for those with small children I guess).

Tania wrote: "I know what you mean, I heard someone on the radio the other day saying there was no point in giving presents that would only end up in charity shops in a fortnight, so their family were cutting ou..."

I think that sounds very sensible, I always thought it was a bit weird to buy presents anyway when most will be cheaper the day after Christmas when the sales start. And as you point out so much goes to waste and a lot of charity shops not even able to process stuff right now so goes straight to rags or recycling at best. I liked this campaign by Books Trust:

https://secure.booktrust.org.uk/donat...

It can be done as a straight donation or as a gift on someone else's behalf.

Thank for this, it's great idea.

Who's read Octavia E. Butler here?

My IRL book group has chosen her Parable of the Talents for our December read in a few weeks: it's a sequel to her Parable of the Sower but reviews suggest they're quite different and that Talents can be read as a standalone - what do people here think? Can I jump into Talents with abandon!

Not familiar, sorry

Roman Clodia wrote: "Who's read Octavia E. Butler here?

My IRL book group has chosen her Parable of the Talents for our December read in a few weeks: it's a sequel to her [book:Parable..."

I think they'd make more sense read together, I can see why a book group might choose the second one right now but the ideas underlying it are introduced in the first - particularly the basis of Earthseed etc