Children's Books discussion

Come join us to discuss the Medal Winner,
The Westing Game by Ellen Raskin
and/or the Honor book:
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson.

Two popular books that should be easy to find, and to enjoy.

I own a copy of Raskin's mystery so I will be reading that soon, I hope. I will have to wait until we complete our move to get a copy of Paterson's.

Both are rereads for me, but from a long time ago....

Ok. Yeah, I still can't appreciate Raskin's work. I wrote more in my review, but don't look at it if you're planning to read the book for the first time for this discussion.

I look forward to your commentaries, though!

Cheryl is busier irl atm. wrote: "Ok. Yeah, I still can't appreciate Raskin's work. I wrote more in my review, but don't look at it if you're planning to read the book for the first time for this discussion.

I look forward to your..."

I just got this from my local independent bookstore on Friday. Have not really read all that much yet, but there seems to be a mean spiritedness present in the text which I personally do not like, and I am also not into mysteries unless they are historical and preferably Medieval ones.

I read both of these within the last 10-15 years or so. I loved the Westing Game, especially the characters.

I liked Gilly Hopkins okay. I thought Patersen pushed the misanthropy of the main character harder than most authors would have at that time. To me, though, it felt like a lesser version of The Pinballs.

The Westing Game
This is one of my favorite Newbery titles. I hope to have time to read it (for the fourth or fifth time) this month. I do love mysteries and this was one of my favorite juvenile mysteries.

I believe I read both as a kid but don't have any strong memories. I looked through Gilly Hopkins for Banned Books Week a few years ago but it didn't look like it would appeal to me so I returned it unread.

I just finished The Great Gilly Hopkins for the fourth time. I still enjoy it, and I recommend the movie.

The Westing Game

So first and foremost and very much importantly, I do not all that much enjoy and have in fact never (since my childhood) really liked reading mysteries and in particular those that involve puzzles and needing to chase and find a whole bunch of hidden clues, and which is probably also why I never was at all much into reading either the Nancy Drew or the Hardy Boys series as a younger reader (although yes, I do have a reading weakness for Mediaeval mysteries but actually only for those where the whodunnit aspect tends to mostly play a solid second fiddle role and to definitely not be as significant as setting, culture, time and place etc.). And well, considering that Ellen Raskin's 1979 Newbery Award winning middle grade mystery novel The Westing Game is both not at all historical in theme, in scope and also involves multiple puzzles and running, chasing after a plethora of clues (basically everything I do tend to find massively annoying, frustrating and tediously dragging with regard to mysteries), I have therefore also never been all that keen on trying to read The Westing Game and in fact only decided to finally consider trying it because we are reading The Westing Game this April in the Newbery Club of the Children's Literature Group (and I am trying to read as many Newbery winners as possible).

But no, although I do think that Ellen Raskin's presented narrative, that her story for The Westing Game is for the most part suspensefully and engagingly penned and that I do understand and appreciate why many young (and likely also many adult) mystery lovers have lastingly enjoyed (and likely remember with fondness and nostalgia) the encountered puzzles, trying to figure out the many clues and hints to finally be able to solve the Westing mystery, sorry, but for me, The Westing Game is simply way too much mystery, is just too much trying to figure out clues and who did what, is textually therefore really and massively personally uninteresting and a tedious reading slog, and so much so that I have in fact spent most of my reading hours only very cursively skimming through The Westing Game and at the same time wishing I was reading something else, almost anything else. And furthermore, aside from me not at all enjoying the entire premise of The Westing Game and finding Ellen Raskin's presented mysteries and clues (and which basically do seem to encompasses almost the whole entirety of The Westing Game) not only annoying and uninteresting but also often rather too clever for my tastes, there is in my humble opinion also a general undercurrent of encountered mean-spiritedness continuously present in The Westing Game that I have most definitely found rather majorly uncomfortable and nasty, and which is why for me, The Westing Game has not at all been even remotely a reading pleasure, and that in fact, my two star rating is not one star only because I do understand that I am not into mysteries and that for many readers, The Westing Game seems to be enjoyable and even often a cherished favourite.

It's so hard to reconcile the fact that 1. we know lots of other people have loved the book, and also that the Newbery committee thought it had value, with 2. not enjoying it all ourselves.

Iow, I hear ya!

Cheryl is busier irl atm. wrote: "It's so hard to reconcile the fact that 1. we know lots of other people have loved the book, and also that the Newbery committee thought it had value, with 2. not enjoying it all ourselves.

Iow, ..."

I know! But with mysteries, I generally just do not like them.

The Westing Game
As I have already stated, this is one of my favorite of the Newbery Awards, and I did finish reading it again this month. It had been several years since I last re-read it, so many of the details I had forgotten. I loved the quirky characters and the puzzles that Sam Westing laid out for his "heirs." I loved the silly ideas that the teammates came up with from the few clues each team was given. And I loved the final reveal and the epilogues for each of the characters. I loved the writing style, and the fact that each character had a voice in the story. All in all, I thought it was a clever, and at many times, a funny mystery.

:smiles:

I blew my chance for a group read of The Great Gilly Hopkins, which I've been meaning to read for years!

Ivonne wrote: "I blew my chance for a group read of The Great Gilly Hopkins, which I've been meaning to read for years!"

You can still read it, if you wish, even if you don't read it this April, and you can still post comments on it whenever, as these threads do not close.

Ivonne wrote: "I blew my chance for a group read of The Great Gilly Hopkins, which I've been meaning to read for years!"

I just started it last night and am loving it so far! Please join me!

I loved The Great Gilly Hopkins this time, too. It's unexpected, with an ending that made me go "whoa..."

My review:

I advise that we read as still relevant historical fiction. Gilly would now know what Galadriel means, and 'black' people wouldn't be so exotic, and the 'flower children' wouldn't be mostly dead or doddering.

And hopefully the author would pay more attention to the character of Agnes. That poor girl.

But it's still a wonderful book, short and dramatic with an ending that youngsters will be surprised by, but have deep appreciation for. Paterson is amazing. Do read this. Even though none of the covers work quite right.

The Westing Game

I read the 25th anniversary edition with an introduction by the original editor on the life of Ellen Raskin and how the book came to be. Do other editions have her original illustrations? There aren't any in this edition.

I love mysteries but when I was a kid, mysteries for children were too easy to solve and made me cringe as the characters kept missing the obvious. As an adult I read "cozy" mysteries all the time and I love the puzzle of figuring out whodunit.

The Westing Game is one wild, crazy and fun mystery! If it was written today or updated, I would have loved it but as is, I stayed up really late to finish it. I couldn't put it down. There are so many crazy twists and turns I never saw coming. The only things I figured out were (view spoiler)[the clues made up the words of "America the Beautiful" but I did have help from the introduction. (hide spoiler)] and (view spoiler)[Sam was Barney Northrup. I didn't guess Sam was also Sandy until his "death." (hide spoiler)] I also had a hunch (view spoiler)[Sam faked his death and that Crow was his wife. (hide spoiler)]

I liked the quirky characters for the most part, especially Turtle. I also loved Chris but not the way his plot went. I did NOT like Grace (view spoiler)[She is such an awful mother and a greedy social climber. (hide spoiler)] The judge is an interesting and complex character as well. I liked how the characters became friends with people they had previously turned their noses up at.

The 25th anniversary edition really needed minor updates to refresh the book and bring it into the modern age. I found it ridiculously racist and the treatment of people with disabilities was shockingly awful. Madame Hoo especially broke my heart with the racist treatment she was given.

The Wexlers are also slightly problematic. She seems prejudiced against immigrants and points out that her husband is a Jew so therefore he can not be related to Sam Westing. I don't know how I'd feel about that if I were Jewish and came across those comments while reading.

Chris is an appealing character. He's smart, interesting and kind. However, he has a disability and can not walk. His muscles twist and contort and his speech comes out in stutters. I guessed cerebral palsy but it might be based on the author's own debilitating condition. The way some of the others treat him is horrible even when they mean well. Flora can be excused I guess because (view spoiler)[she had a daughter with Down's Syndrome which would make Rosalie seem more child-like and that was Flora's only experience with a person with a disability. (hide spoiler)] There are some inconsistencies and shocking things that happen with his plot.

Dr. Denton is listed as an intern in the department of plastic surgery. Why then does he (view spoiler)[whisk Chris away for experiential treatment without permission from his parents? This is the most unethical and probably illegal thing. Just like that Chris is much better because of random untested medication no one knows he's on? (hide spoiler)]

There were some other inconsistencies as well. If Sam was an only child, how does he have nieces and nephews? That's impossible.

In another spot, it says James Hoo sued Sara Westing and then Westing disappeared. That should be Sam not Sara. It was confusing.

Minor updates wouldn't have changed anything.

I wanted more backstory for Crow. What happened to her in her life that made her the way she is? Did Violet really drown or did she disappear to escape her parents?

I need to reread this when I'm more fresh.

QNPoohBear wrote: "The Westing Game

I found it ridiculously racist and the treatment of people with disabilities was shockingly awful. ..."

The book was not racist, characters in the story were racist. The book did not treat Chris badly; the characters in the book treated him badly. There is a big difference between the author writing racist diatribes against people, and creating characters in a book that are arrogant and racist, and treat others badly.

Thank you Beverly; that's an important distinction that everyone needs to remember.

Cheryl struggles to catch up wrote: "Thank you Beverly; that's an important distinction that everyone needs to remember."

I did not enjoy The Westing Game because I am not that much into mysteries unless they are historical ones. The bigoted characters make me uncomfortable but characters who are racist do not automatically mean that the author is also racist.