Reading 1001 discussion

Discussion for Metamorphoses. A review thread will be created.

Metamorphoses is a Latin narrative poem written in 8 A.D. by Roman poet
Publius Ovidius Naso (43 B.C.–18 A.D.), better known as simply Ovid.
Divided in fifteen books, Metamorphoses contains 250 myths, and it is our
main source of classical Greek mythology. Starting from the story of creation
and the flood to the deification of Julius Caesar and reign of Augustus, the
poem contains many famous mythical stories such as that of Daedalus and
Icarus. Even with its complex narrative structure, modern scholars see four
major divisions to Metamorphoses: “Divine Comedy” or “Gods in Love,” books
1-2; “Avenging Gods,” books 3-6 (to line 400); “Pathos of Love” the rest of
book 6-11; and “History of Rome and the Deified Caesar,” books 12-15. Metamorphoses, Ovid’s magnum opus, is considered by current scholars as a
masterpiece of Latin literature. With translations into just about every
European language, it became the most-read of all classical works during the
Middle Ages. The myths contained in this poem have inspired works in every
medium for centuries. Ovid’s work has inspired writers such as Dante,
Chaucer, Shakespeare, Marlow, and Milton; painters such as Brueghel; and
composers such as Händel among many others. Ovid’s Metamorphoses has
exerted a profound influence on Western culture.
Note on Reading:
Even though first time readers tend to view the Metamorphoses as a
collection of 250 individual stories, Ovid stated in the prologue that he had
written this epic to be read as one ‘continuous poem’ —a Carmen
perpetuum—in which all stories are connected to each other.

From: https://resources.saylor.org/wwwresou...

Questions:
1. 1. How is the world depicted in Metamorphoses? Are the setting of the myths safe and peaceful places, or dangerous and chaotic?
2. How does Ovid represent the gods in Metamorphoses?
3. How are women depicted in Metamorphoses?
4. What is Ovid’s view of love?
5. Why do you think Ovid uses humor in Metamorphoses?
6. What does Metamorphoses tell us about Augustan Rome?
7. Is there a moral lesson to Metamorphoses?

Started this one and am enjoying it so far I especially loved the Romeo and Juliet scenario told by the weaving sisters which in itself has a hint of 1001 nights.

Definitely an influential book.

So I have finished this one I enjoyed the early books and the final books but the bits about Rome and the Greek legends I found dull. Possibly because I have read some great retellings of the myths from a female point of view recently.

1. Dangerous and chaotic at any point some avenging god or goddess could be out to get you.

2. The same way as the legends remote beings who argue amongst themselves, have favourites among the humans and who mess with peoples lives for entertainment.

3. Goddesses or victims. The Goddesses are beautiful and powerful while the human women are victims held hostage to the whim of the Gods or men. If we meet a virgin we know that state won't last for long.

4. Cynical in the main. The lovers with the exception of the Romeo and Juliet characters are really only interested in what they can gain from the so called beloved a lot of the time once the love is gained the woman is abandoned while the men seek adventure or new love.

5. Must have missed the humour as nothing leapt out at me as particularly funny.

6. It is a place full of myths, gods, heroes and stories.

7. No that I found.

I am only 1 third of the way through but I am finding some bits funny although that may be because I am finding all the concentration on Jove's infidelity to Juno and her reactions to that as rather over the top. She always punishes the victim rather than the victimizer although when the victimizer is God, what can you do? Also, the phrase "hear my plead oh gods" tends to turn the pleader into something "safe" from being raped but come on: a tree? a spring? An animal? How is that justice?

1. How is the world depicted? Ovid describes how the world is created out of chaos and then progresses through ages of gold, silver then iron. The gods interfere in the lives of men and women in dangerous and chaotic ways, and sometimes people challenge the gods, or become gods themselves.
2. These gods are described as having very human characteristics such as lust, envy and the desire for revenge. They are not treated with much respect by Ovid, in fact humans are shown to be superior to the gods in several instances.
3. Women are either young and virginal and desirous and therefore raped by the gods, or older and vengeful. There is none of the faithfulness of Penelope in Ovid. Usually the rape victim is blamed for being raped, however hard she fought against being violated. Often they blamed themselves.
4. Love is described as an overwhelmingly powerful force which is irresistable. Even Apollo, the god of reason, is reduced to an idiot by love. Love is usually a sexual force although the love of a mother, usually for a murdered child is also prevalent.
5. Ovid is using the usual formula of epic poems, by writing it in the style of the day, but by turning the usual reverence for the gods upside down he surprises his audience with humour.
6. You get the feeling that there is quite a bit of censorship and Ovid has to sing the praises of Augustus. even though he does so, he ended up being exiled for his pains.
7. The usual theme of the myths of Ancient Greece is to instil modesty and patience in the human heart. Ovid does not subscribe to these themes. His telling of the myths instead warns the reader about the perils of love, the arbitrariness of fate and the inpermanence of everything.

1. How is the world depicted in Metamorphoses? Are the setting of the myths safe and peaceful places, or dangerous and chaotic?

While for some, the scenes might appear safe and peaceful, they can quickly become dangerous and choatic, especially if you do something which upsets one or many of the gods. And in several cases in this poem, the victim might be the unwanting recipient of a life-changing (and sometimes, death-perpetuating) transformation.

2. How does Ovid represent the gods in Metamorphoses?

While they are mainly represented at the image of the humans, they sometimes take other shapes, most often animal. They are all-powerful and one would be ill-advised to defy them. Their antagonisms are not only with the humans but also between themselves.

3. How are women depicted in Metamorphoses?

Unfortunately, fair game for Jupiter most of the time. Often victims, but sometimes vengeful.

4. What is Ovid’s view of love?

I agree with Pip. It is a powerful feeling/force, just think of Narcissus' story, for example.

5. Why do you think Ovid uses humor in Metamorphoses?

I guess that levity is part of human nature and sometimes the gods end up in curiously funny situations. It also lightens some of the heavier parts, especially the very bloody and vengeful ones.

6. What does Metamorphoses tell us about Augustan Rome?

Not so sure.

7. Is there a moral lesson to Metamorphoses?

I guess, life is ever-changing, probably not as spectacularly as the mighty gods might affect it. That any of your actions can have grave consequences, to the point of suffering transformation.

1. 1. How is the world depicted in Metamorphoses? Are the setting of the myths safe and peaceful places, or dangerous and chaotic? I found that it was mostly dangerous and chaotic.
2. How does Ovid represent the gods in Metamorphoses? These gods are very human in character. Not gods I would want watching over me.
3. How are women depicted in Metamorphoses? sometimes victims, sometimes hateful and vengeful.
4. What is Ovid’s view of love? using others for own personal gain
5. Why do you think Ovid uses humor in Metamorphoses? because if these are gods, it is laughable. Sardonic
6. What does Metamorphoses tell us about Augustan Rome? Not sure what is the answer but from my recall, the Caesars viewed themselves as gods. During this time period there was also a lot sexual behavior and risk of being poisoned or killed.
7. Is there a moral lesson to Metamorphoses? there are consequences for the decisions that we make.

1. How is the world depicted in Metamorphoses? Are the setting of the myths safe and peaceful places, or dangerous and chaotic?
Even if the scenes start out as romantic, beautiful and peaceful they often quickly transform into dangerous and chaotic venues often due to the whimsy or desires of the unfathomable gods.

2. How does Ovid represent the gods in Metamorphoses?
They have human characteristics such as revengeful passions, consuming lusts or mischievous whims but their powers overcome all restraints and they act out these "human" emotions for completely selfish ends. Even when they show that they have heard the prayers of the mortals, they often grant their prayers in such a way that the humans "live" in the form of a bird, animal, tree, or spring, which is evidence of not exactly understanding human desires. Clearly these gods are not attuned to taking care of humans. Humans are not even secondary but much further down on the list.
However, what the gods are particularly good at in this religion is keeping things on course, the sun rises every day thanks to Jupiter, the night is kept from overwhelming the day, the rivers flood but fall back to the sea, the grain grows in the spring, the hunters are rewarded in their hunt...

3. How are women depicted in Metamorphoses? As mortals, they are largely victims, the beautiful virgins are raped, the loyal wives are abducted, the mothers are all left crying. As Gods, they are extremely powerful and able to sway the course of events although not always for the good of the mortals. The female gods largely control the night, the growth of plants and animals (except grapes) but they often have to appeal to their male counterparts to get what they want.

4. What is Ovid’s view of love? Yes, Pip answered this one so well.

5. Why do you think Ovid uses humor in Metamorphoses? Even humans see the humor in the twisted desires of the powerful gods. If Juno does not have a loyal husband then how can a mere mortal expect to have one? However, having Juno turn one of her husband's girlfriends into a gawky bird is a funny revenge for a mortal. Also, Ovid didn't really seem to show much reverence for the gods and so when he needed to use humor to keep the flow of the poem from descending into just rapes and bloody deaths, he did.

6. What does Metamorphoses tell us about Augustan Rome? Near the end Ovid describes the founding of Rome, and also Julius Ceasar becoming a god. Clearly, the Romans saw themselves as the inheritors of the glory of Greece who rightfully are going to take the concept of the republic and then the empire further than Greece took it.
Augustan Rome thinks very well of itself and is on the rise in their own minds.
Also, in Augustan Rome it is evidently very important to praise Augustus if you are a poet wishing to stay in Rome and also evidently, that doesn't always work.

7. Is there a moral lesson to Metamorphoses?
Not exactly one moral lesson. There is; watch out for what you wish for, curb your passion as it will not end well, the gods are unknowable but predictably capricious, everything you do may have an unintended consequence. However, the large lesson is that change is a constant in this world. The world transforms in ways that no one can predict.

Love your answer to number 7, Gail.

1. How is the world depicted in Metamorphoses? Are the setting of the myths safe and peaceful places, or dangerous and chaotic?
Seems fairly peaceful to start with and then all that often changes in a moment when some vengeful god or person shows up.

2. How does Ovid represent the gods in Metamorphoses?
Very much like humans with all our flaws and volatile emotions, but with a lot of power to get their own way, at least against humans, it varies how much power they have against each other.

3. How are women depicted in Metamorphoses?
Pawns in a game usually.

4. What is Ovid’s view of love?
It never seems to last for the majority of stories, or if it is lasting it never ends well for the lovers. With the exception of the one lovely story about the poor couple who opened their homes to the gods, lived long lives together and then were turned into trees in the end.

5. Why do you think Ovid uses humour in Metamorphoses?
By modern standards, I didn’t find much of the book funny, or I just missed the references with them being centuries old, but I think there were parts that would be entertaining to a Roman audience. These stories were written to be performed I believe, so as to engage the audience I guess.

6. What does Metamorphoses tell us about Augustan Rome?
My history is not great, I’m not sure what it tells us outside of the morals and attitudes of people at the time.

7. Is there a moral lesson to Metamorphoses?
Hmm, not sure… ’Life’s a bitch and then you get turned into a tree’...maybe?