Japanese Literature discussion

This is our discussion thread for our first group read of 2022: Spring Snow, the first in Yukio Mishima's Sea of Fertility series.

Who's planning to participate? Is it a first read or a re-read?

I'm in and will be reading for the first time. You?

Character List [from wiki]

Major characters

Kiyoaki "Kiyo" Matsugae (1895–1914)
The Marquis and Marquise Matsugae
The former Marquise Matsugae, Kiyo's grandmother
Satoko Ayakura (b. 1893)
The Count and Countess Ayakura
Shigekuni Honda (b. 1895)
Mr. and Mrs. Honda
Shigeyuki Iinuma
Mine, a maid
Yamada, the steward
Tadeshina, Satoko's maid
Baron and Baroness Shinkawa
The Abbess of Gesshu, Satoko's great-aunt
Prince Haruhisa Toin and his wife (the Toinnomiyas)
Prince Harunobu Toin, his third son
Prince Kridsada "Kri"
Prince Pattanadid "Chao Praong"

Minor characters

Emperor Meiji
Princess Kasuga
Dr. Mori
Dr. Ozu
Mr. Kitazaki, innkeeper
Itsui, the friend of Honda who owns the car
Mr Mori the driver
Fusako, Honda's second cousin
Tomi Masuda, Hidé, and Matsukichi Hijikata, involved in the court case
"The Monster", the deformed son of a marquis
a school prefect

Review links

NYTimes Nov 17, 1972:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytim...

This wikipedia file is strong, and includes a number of links to all manner of sub-topics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_...

New Year, new resolve to get stuck in. I have my copy and am determined to get it started soon. The usual problem is too many books, too little time... But it's a book that has been on my tbr list for ever, so if not now, when? ☺️

Alan wrote: "New Year, new resolve to get stuck in. I have my copy and am determined to get it started soon. The usual problem is too many books, too little time... But it's a book that has been on my tbr list ..."

I couldn't have said it better, Alan : )

...this will be my third reading over the years (decades...) as it was the first 'foreign' literature I read after seeing the movie Mishima and wondering what could create such images and music. bought first as ppbk in tetralogy, now I have trade copy, but not the vintage I think (maybe). I am enthused to hear what others have to say of it...

it is vintage but v old so page numbers might be different...

I'm in. I still have this on my shelf and haven't re-read it in forever, not even the last time we did it as a monthly read.

I really should give away the third and fourth books of that set, but it's so hard to break up matching covers...

Bill wrote: "I really should give away the third and fourth books of that set, but i..."

Why do you want to give them away, because you will never re-read them? or because you never finished them and will not attempt ?
I will never reread any of the 4 but still enjoy seeing the books on my shelf, as with all reads that were worth it, for one reason or another.
I am looking forward to reading the comments and reminiscing my reading of Spring Snow. Definitely my favorite in the series and the most poetic one and profound one in my opinion.

I'll never re-read them. I tried to when the group here read all four books a few years ago, and still didn't care for books three and four.

I have nine bookcases, all full. I'd rather not have boxes of books sitting in the closet, so I get rid of books from my shelves to make space for more. I like to think the quality of my bookshelves is improving over time, but perhaps I'm just kidding myself.

Funny, I'm also generally a keeper of books, but 2021 broke me of it. I started trading in most books I've read (in 2021) unless they were really special. I've still no doubt got a few thousand - 75% of which I haven't read - around me, and I tend to keep many of my Japanese lit books, but I'm letting go of the contemporary ones that don't mean anything to me. It's my version of Marie Kondo. Does it spark joy to see it on my bookshelf? If not, it move on.

I started Spring Snow and found the opening masterful. I'm immediately sucked in to this space and time. The sentences are inviting, the observations insightful and spare.

I haven't read this in easily over a decade and have wanted to revisit. Seems like a good opportunity!

I read this three years ago and really enjoyed it. Kiyoaki is such a frustrating character, and my favourite is Honda. Will check back for everyone's comments!

I'm in! First time reading. Very much looking forward.

Bill wrote: "I'll never re-read them. I tried to when the group here read all four books a few years ago, and still didn't care for books three and four.

I have nine bookcases, all full. I'd rather not have bo..."

We've been sending many of our read books to 1dollarscan. I'd rather read a paper book, but they take up way less space as PDFs.

I have also starting culling a bit -- part of it is that many are in storage now for decades, another is the ease of ebooks. Finally there is: old age.

I did go and pull "Spring Snow" and the rest of the series from a box. I have American First Editions of all of these, and maybe they are the only major works by Mishima I never read. Still and all I might the set of hardcovers up for sale somewhere.

I'm some 80 pages in and am wondering why I only gave this 3 stars. I don't remember the plot, but at least part of the ending is clear.

There is more brooding introspection than character interaction, but perhaps it's still just setting up the characters. Already there are several of the visual images Mishima is famous for stuck in my memory.

Bill wrote: "I'm some 80 pages in and am wondering why I only gave this 3 stars. I don't remember the plot, but at least part of the ending is clear.

There is more brooding introspection than character interac..."

I'm around page 46 or so and agree with the vast majority of content constituting brooding introspection.

Kiyoaki's analysis of his world and options are, indeed, frustrating, but I was a little put off that Mishumi introduces him with shade, e.g., I felt like he threw his own MC under the bus immediately and -- as a result -- I'm bending over backwards to see some depth and nuance to him. If Mishumi had simply presented him without the commentary on how he wouldn't be such a **** if he hadn't been made soft by his adoptive family, I'd be perfectly comfortable rolling my eyes at his every thought.

Did we cover that you can check this one out from the Open Library?

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL44677....

I finally started. I’ve never read this one before. Looking forward to it!

I've noticed the use of images: the sepia photo of the massed soldiers at the Russo-Japanese war dead memorial, the oil painting of the Matsugae patriarch in the billiard room, the (seemingly hand-tinted) photograph of the monastery of Wat-Po in Thailand. All have somewhat mystical, or eerie qualities to the characters seeing them.

The soldiers in the first are as "like figures in a renaissance painting" -- an image described by another image. The photograph is later recalled on the carriage ride with Satoko through the snow, an illusion that creates a grotesque amid this otherwise blissful journey.

The portrait is tied to a paranormal story, its falling from the wall when the patriarch died.

The Thai photograph leads directly into a discussion (and rumination) on dreams: "For everything sacred has the substance of dreams and memories, and so we suddenly experience the miracle of of what is separated from us by time or distance, suddenly being made tangible." Images do that as well.

Later, Kiyoaki describes Satoko: "he felt he was looking at a fine painting whose colors, once brilliant, were fading horribly before his very eyes." Another somewhat supernatural way of seeing, as with the war photo and the portrait, connected with death or decay.

Finally... is it well-remarked on how often Mishima ends his chapters with a haiku like jolt, often a sound?

I'm going to try to read this in Japanese! Is anyone else? I'm wondering about the vocabulary given the original publication date and my brief skim of everyone's take so far ... brooding and introspective can be difficult to understand for non-native readers. Well, it's waiting for me at the library ...

this is different, having read so many books since, particularly asian/japanese, lived since last reading. to some extent it was/is the exotic aspect that captured my interest though I ended up liking him ore than common western authors blurbs compared him to...

it is romantic conception of times, of beautiful character, that I looked for in other Mishima and Japanese work, and having read about third this third time over the years (decades...) I know how it works out but still fascinates. it makes name curious how his work is viewed in Japan when written and today...

kiyoaki is something like I wished to be, satoko like the woman I wanted to love, though their relationship, carefully examined, seen primarily from his pov, seems perversely self-conscious and childishly cruel. do we always hate the one we love? whose love calls forth our own? do we write letters/think thoughts to deliberately hurt them?

I loved the idea kiyoaki wanted to be like a pennant, blown about by emotional gusts... that was is important in life is love and not all the other concerns, such as the varied attempts at status and westernisation by his elders, such as details of law studied by his friend honda...

220205: did not mean to read it so quickly- again- but caught up in momentum of romance. meant to be able to quote significant lines, as other readers do, but finished it this third time on flight to islands. nothing else to read. I remember how this work inspired me to read other cultures/languages in translation- first, generally of that culture, era, then second, of that author or others associated with him/her, third, specific books... I have read enough Mishima to know which I want to read... acquaintance said his characters are always sexually confused, I suggested those are the ones translated, not too much the case here... kiyoaki and satoko are simple, passionate, sexual... it is everything else, such as love, that confuses them...

I am reading this in March 2024 as part of a March group read with the Japan Society of Boston. The posts in this thread and the previous group reads have been helpful since I have been struggling somewhat with the reading.
I will add to my post when I finish. I am also (slowly) reading the Stokes biography.
I like what Dioni said in the group read of Sept 2015:
(The description of Satoko is ) "from Kiyoaki's perspective. The book is told in third person, but I feel it is more close third person on Kiyoaki's side, and the part about Satoko feels like it's described from Kiyoaki's perspective, so I don't just take it as it is, as he's so emo and angsty that I take him as somewhat unreliable narrator."
I also feel that Kiyo is an unreliable narrator, so I puzzle how characters are if there was a neutral description of them.

I know that the more experienced readers of this group and students of Mishima’s writings -more deeply realize than I do - the complex and layered nature of Spring Snow. Starting with the title, “Spring Snow” 春の雪 or maybe “Spring of Snow”, has cultural meaning related to the transience and ephemeral substance of human life.
Other, immediate challenges for the English reader are the meaning of names. We probably won’t know how they are spelled in Japanese and the meaning will depend on the characters used. For expample, for Kiyoaki, the main character of the reader’s observation, the name may mean “pure, shining”. Perhaps a subtle reference to Genji or a thought that how a pure soul/incarnation is tarnished/destroyed by the inevitable fate of life/death.
Other main conflicts of the story lend themselves to literary criticism methods of historical/social analysis, themes of desire vs obligation, traditional values vs westernization. Gender theory analysis helps with how Mishima describes how trapped people are in their perceived or internalized roles in society of the “end of Taisho days period”.

There are at least two levels to the story. First the narrative of the primary characters in this first story arc and the four book cycle. Second, would be what Mishima is writing about, using the characters as his vehicle for conveying his messages and commentary. For me, the narratives of the primary characters are quite painful and I find it difficult to get distance to be a witness. I really wish to hear an authentic inner voice for Satoko but, I think, that is outside of the scope of Mishima’s narrative.

I recognized that Spring Snow will take more than one reading and some time between each one to get some personal distance.

In these and other thoughts, I am finding Spring Snow a very challenging read.

There are many comments wrt Spring Snow in past “currently reading”. Here are the threads from the previous group read in 2015-2016. (I appreciate those comments also.)

https://www.goodreads.com/comment/sho...
https://www.goodreads.com/comment/sho...
https://www.goodreads.com/comment/sho...

It's one of those books that continues to get nominated, because everyone has to read it sometime. I remember joining the group right as they were finishing that and were about to start Runaway Horses.

I have to admit I like Runaway Horses more than Spring Snow. That rarely happens with sequels.