Books2Movies Club discussion

The Two Towers is the second part of The Lord of the Rings trilogy. It is not a stand-alone work, so you can't completely skip The Fellowship of the Ring even if you disliked it. I personally know some people who couldn't get past the first book, therefore missing all the exciting fun that came afterward.

For the discussion about the first book, please head over to this thread:

TOLKIEN 01: The Fellowship of the Ring

Here you can discuss the differences between the book and the movie(s) too if you like, but I plan to make a separate post about the movies, so you do not have to.

I am almost done with the second part of the book, so let me add some topics and trivia for discussion on the first part of the book:

People & Creatures

- Goblins & Orcs & Uruk-Hai - they appear just the same thing, only different tribes and characteristics? In Hobbit goblin is a milder term targeted for children I guess. The sound of elvish Yrch is quite menacing, don't you think so? And appropriate for an adult audience. While it is said that on the whole they were unnatural - created from corrupted elves (uruk-hai are even blended with men so they can abide the sunlight) and multiplying by spawning - they do know the Common Speech and they have some wits, including a knowledge of some herbal medicine to heal their wounds. What do you think of that?

- Rohirrim! People of nature, wild and free, book-averse yet song-loving, brave and true of heart. Closer to Dale people and Beorn than to people of Gondor. Is this a fair description of these people?

- Eowyn - what did you think of her? I admit as a girl I identified with Eowyn a lot. Arwen was too distant a figure to relate to.

- Eomer vs Grima - two extremes - one valiant and loyal, the other coward and traitor. How could Theoden ever trust Grima more than his own nephew? I loved Eomer. It helped that Karl Urban portrayed him in the movies ;)

- Treebeard/Fangorn & Quickbeam/Bregalad & the ents - what do you think of their history and personalities? To me Treebeard sounds like a lone grandpa who has no grandkids to care for and share his stories with. When I had read LotR for the first time, their tragic narrative broke my heart and remained the longest with me.

Ents appear to be older than elves, created to shepherd over the growing things, and they did not know how to speak until they met elves. The elves gave them the ability to speak in tongues. Don't you think that there is a powerful ecological message from Tolkien imbued in these beings?

Some puzzles and deligths

Merry and Pippin - "little furtive figures that in the dim light looked like elf-children in the deeps of time peering out of the Wild Wood in wonder at their First Dawn" - the hobbits' appearance serves well as our initiation to the whole LotR setting as they, innocent and unaware of all these things happening outside their Shire, are learning together with us about the world of Men, Elves, Wizards and Evil lurking above them all. Merry was a cheerful hobbit, Pippin an inquisitive one. Each carrying a personality of a child wondering at everything one sees. What is your impression of them?

Fangorn saying about Saruman: "He has a mind of metal and wheels; and he does not care for growing things" - doesn't that again provide an ecological message against the brutality of industrial and technological advancement (especially at that time in which Tolkien lived)? Another one:

Devilry of Saruman's weaponry used in Helm's Deep - here we can see old-fashioned cold weapons used against fire weapons, old customs against new ones, and Tolkien's aversion of the brutality of the new wars (not that it was any bit tidier to die from the sword or axe, however, the chance one'll die was less likely).

Mithrandir - I am still mystified how he was reborn. If he was in the flesh before, and an angel now, that meant he couldn't be killed anymore? I wish there were more details about Istari, Maiar etc. From what I discerned, he was a Maia equal in power with Sauron but forbidden to use his power against him directly. He was sent in the form of the old man to help the Free people against Evil, and after his work was done, he went back to the West.

Reunion of old friends - what did you think of that segment in which the company meets hobbits at leisure as if they had no worries at all? The later one also, where the five were left alone together? I found it very funny, endearing and irresistible. I wanted to hug everybody afterwards :)

"Often does hatred hurt itself" - a cool quote coming from Gandalf, of course. How does that aptly apply to Saruman and Grima, you'll probably discover at the end of this part of the book ;) It will also be something they counted on in the fight against Sauron.

If there are some other things related to the book that you'd like to discuss, freely share your thoughts! These are only some suggestions they came to my mind. The book is too immense to write down every detail :)

I finished the book almost two weeks ago, but never found the time to put some notes about it till now. Overall, it was awesome read. I am still amazed how all that trekking by two little hobbits was made so vivid and interesting. No action most of the time! Plain old walking!

The most fascinating thing in this part for me was reading about the personal growth and transformation of Sam's character. Sam from Mordor was way different from Sam at the beginning of the journey.

Gollum/Smeagol - he is a big one in this book. How do you recall that famous debate? Do you share the same sentiments about him with Frodo or you are rather with Sam on that matter?

Faramir - another noble man, from another country. How does he compare with Boromir?

Men from South - to me, this quote below is crucial in understanding how Tolkien perceived the enemies that came from South and what his stance about war in general was:

It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace.

Wounded oliphaunt - I was always curious about that little remark, how no one ever found out what happened to that poor beast. What do you think why such an enigma in that case?

the question of ancestries - why Tolkien emphasizes so much the importance of knowing one's own history, ancestry and lineage? It seems everybody takes great care in knowing where they come from. It is not a matter of rankings - hobbits were of no high nobility and they still knew full well to appreciate their heritage and country, and they were equally valiant and worthy as any nobleman of Gondor or elf of Lorien.

Stewards of Gondor - do you think it unfair that stewards could not be kings and that they instead were forced to wait for the king's comeback? Suppose Aragorn was not worthy of that throne? Would all that waiting then be in vain? Interesting how Denethor and Boromir were brooding about that, while Faramir didn't care at all about the throne. What does it say about each of them? If in election, to whom would you rather vote, Boromir or Faramir, and why?

Conversation between Sam and Faramir - where each admitted the truthfulness of their characters, and where Sam was compared to old Numenoreans and Faramir to Gandalf. Do you have any suggestions why such comparisons? What in their characters evoked Gandalf and Numenoreans?

Shelob - I was truly impressed by her description, were you too? I have never read such a detailed account of a monster, not only the looks, but the whole history and background!

Orcs Shagrat and Gorbag - after reading this conversation, how one can think Orcs are just dumb monsters? They may be evil and crooked, but stupid I wouldn't say so. Their conversation seemed pretty comprehensible.

The brave things in the old tales and songs, Mr. Frodo: adventures, as I used to call them. I used to think that they were things the wonderful folk of the stories went out and looked for, because they wanted them, because they were exciting and life was a bit dull, a kind of a sport, as you might say. But that's not the way of it with the tales that really mattered, or the ones that stay in the mind. Folk seem to have been just landed in them, usually--their paths were laid that way, as you put it. But I expect they had lots of chances, like us, of turning back, only they didn't. And if they had, we shouldn't know, because they'd have been forgotten. We hear about those as just went on--and not all to a good end, mind you; at least not to what folk inside a story and not outside it call a good end. You know, coming home, and finding things all right, though not quite the same--like old Mr Bilbo. But those aren't always the best tales to hear, though they may be the best tales to get landed in! I wonder what sort of a tale we've fallen into?

I always loved this paragraph, so meta!