The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion

March 2022 is a novel published in the 2000 & Up age of SF, A Memory Called Empire by Arkady Martine.

The books blurb reads, "Ambassador Mahit Dzmare arrives in the center of the multi-system Teixcalaanli Empire only to discover that her predecessor, the previous ambassador from their small but fiercely independent mining Station, has died. But no one will admit that his death wasn't an accident—or that Mahit might be next to die, during a time of political instability in the highest echelons of the imperial court.

Now, Mahit must discover who is behind the murder, rescue herself, and save her Station from Teixcalaan's unceasing expansion—all while navigating an alien culture that is all too seductive, engaging in intrigues of her own, and hiding a deadly technological secret—one that might spell the end of her Station and her way of life—or rescue it from annihilation."

The topic will open for comments on 1Mar2022.

I’ll be joining you on this one. Just picked it up and started this week. Good world building and characterization in the first few chapters so far.

…the imagos remind me a bit of the Trill (sp?) in DS9.

I'm looking forward to this one.

I've read it earlier and the story was a bit incomplete for me (which is usual for a debut work). I liked the 2nd book, A Desolation Called Peace much more

I am surprised by the 'imago'. Someone very present in your head, debating your decisions and influencing what you do. It would take me only a few minutes to a final breakdown.

Two tries at posting a comment, two screens of garbage. I give up. I did read it a couple years back, and liked it a lot: 4.5 stars worth. I'll try to post this first with no link.....

Link: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Who knows what goes on in the GR technical BG.... Pretty damn annoying. 15 min of my life, gone forever!

Yeah, be careful about that, especially on mobile - best to use a computer if you're able. For long posts I recommend typing on another program first (I use Evernote) then c/p over to avoid losing anything.

One of my favorite books, I think it's just great. And I hope it's OK if I reveal that the second book is just as good.

It has a large number of characters and they are scheming against each other. Exactly the sort of book that is hard for me to understand. Even so, I'm liking it so far.

And my Tex...an name shall be "13 Bicycle".

I've made it past the first "interlude".

A GR "friend" has said that the beginning has too many info-dumps. I didn't fee that way. Did you?

I am having trouble with the long names, so I'm simplifying them. Instead of "Teixcalaanli", I say "Texan".

For the word that starts with "Ez" and ends with "cat", I just say "E.Z.-cat". I still don't know what that word means. Maybe I would have caught the meaning if I didn't just say "E.Z.-cat", but I don't care.

This book spends a lot of time discussing people's reactions to other people and their small facial expressions or gestures, much like Samuel Delaney does, but with less style than he has.

I am not troubled by too many info dumps. But I do have a problem getting through the book. Not exactly sure why but I'm making very slow progress. One thing I know that it's not exactly my cup of tea, as Ed says a lot of thinking, talking, facial expressions and complicated manners; 35% in but still waiting for the first real event to happen. The names and functions don't help either, they don't stick so more than once I'm wondering who is who again. Otoh I have to say that it is very good written, hard to believe it is a debut.

I call Teixcalaanli the Inca realm, Much easier to say Inca, and I think
(not sure) it's what it is , in a parallell universe.
Am I correct or is is this nonsense?

Inca did have poetry

I just realized that there is a glossary at the back, and a pronunciation guide. I'm going to keep saying "EZ-cat", though.

I was wrong about Inca, I just read an interview with Arkady Martine, and Teixcalaanli seems to have something of Byzantium and the Aztecs, and perhaps a little Mongol steppe empire, and some others, but of course mostly her own invention.

I was able to start it this morning. I really like the Ideas and I like the writing as well. I also made that place “Texas” in my head. Works for me.

Spad53 wrote: "I was wrong about Inca, ..."

One of the reasons I wanted to read this book is that I had heard somewhere, or perhaps just imagined, that it involved an alternate history version of a South American civilization. But, that isn't what this is at all. There may be some ideas she took from past civilizations, but this is an entirely fictional civilization.

... by the way, I've changed my Tex..an name. You may now address me as "Ninety-nine bottles of beer".

Ed wrote: "... by the way, I've changed my Tex..an name. You may now address me as "Ninety-nine bottles of beer"."

Hahaha

Finished. And.... it just isn't my thing. It is pretty well written, but not really the sort of story I enjoy. It deals with bunches of people with hidden agendas fighting and lying to each other. I can never completely follow those stories.

Some people really like that sort of thing. Thus the popularity of "Dune". But it just isn't my cup of tea.

I'm in the same situation Ed, but only made it halfway in 2 weeks....

I have one nit-picky thought. The characters are able to evade the authorities fairly easily when they need to. Why aren't they being tracked on security cameras? I would expect this advanced city to have cameras everywhere.

Anyway, I'm glad I don't need to memorize poetry just to read my info-fiches!

Well I think you're both completely wrong, it's one of the best books I've read in the last few years. I can't wait for the third one.
/Neil

Spad53 wrote: "Well I think you're both completely wrong, it's one of the best books I've read in the last few years. I can't wait for the third one.
/Neil"

You mean you disagree. No one is "wrong" in their opinion of a book. It worked for you - great. It didn't for them - fine.

Yes, wrong was wrong! But I felt I had to defend the book thats good enough to have this thread about it.

“Eat shit. A billion flies can’t be wrong.”

But seriously, I can completely see why someone would make this a 5 star book.

I did!

I’m 300 pages in and still enjoying it. It’s not a short book but a pretty quick read. At times it reminds me of a group of 20 year olds living dorm life in the big city which would normally annoy me but here it doesn’t. I plan on reading the second book.

I agree with you, Ed, about them being tracked.

I, like Peter and Spad53, really liked this book. It was a bit tough to pronounce some of the words and keep track of all the names. Like Ed, I just shortened the words in my head. I was so glad to find the glossary and flipped to it often for the first half or so of the book.
I really enjoyed the world building. I thought Martine did a solid job of creating Teixcalaanli and the people within it. There were so many details, like the gestures, the flora, the food, and the pattern of names that really made it a unique place.
I also enjoyed the character progression. Mahit, Nineteen Adze, along with a couple others changed as they faced new challenges.
I'm curious about the 2nd book because I'm not sure where Martine will go with it.
Also, Martine posted on Twitter that the 1st and 2nd books are the complete arc; there isn't a 3rd one.

Natalie, the second book is, if possible, even better!

I checked that glossary and indeed it's handy. Maybe for that it would be better if I read a paper book, but I keep it at hand on my phone, next to the e-reader.

I have difficulty keeping the numbered characters apart. Not a very good naming convention. And I agree that there is little action in the usual sense. Quite a bit of talking, thinking, reciting poetry and observing the surroundings and others‘ facial expressions. The background is sci-if, but most of this (except the imago) reads more like classical literature.
Almost finished, just 50 pages to go or so…

Schmaehgol (Joe) wrote: "The background is sci-if, but most of this (except the imago) reads more like classical literature...."
I agree. For example, there is a lot of talking about the mysterious creatures luring at the edges of the empire - but nothing happens.
Anyone knows whether there's more typical SF action in #2?

Leo wrote: "
I agree. For example, there is a lot of talking about the mysterious..."

Yes there is a first contact story with those mysterious creatures. I liked the 2nd more than the 1st

Agree, but they're both great.

I wouldn't say there's much action in the second book, but there's diplomacy. I personally prefer the first to the second by quite a bit.

Checking in on this lively & interesting discussion. I don't think there are any (substantial) books that please every reader. Good thing that that there are plenty of books! One of my favorite new SF/F writers in the last few years. And I also agree that #2 is even better!

I finished the book. It’s good but I will not sing it praises. I’m going to read the second book so that’s an indication that I liked it.

The second book has cats, love interest and difficult to understand aliens, and best of all spaceships, it's getting closer to space opera, but with diplomacy, I loved it.
/Neil

Btw. check out Strange Practice, Vivian Shaw is Arkady Martine's wife. Completely different but also very good indeed.
/Neil

Thanks for your thoughts all. I think I will pick up the second book somewhere this year.

Spad53 wrote: "Btw. check out Strange Practice, Vivian Shaw is Arkady Martine's wife. Completely different but also very good indeed.
/Neil"
Thanks for the recommendation!

Very late to the game but I just got lent this by a friend after discovering it on their bookshelf and realising that it was a recent group read.

Agree with a lot of the commentary - the conceptual naming and heavy politics make it rich but dense. The use of language is pretty cool, especially how the Empire pulls tricks like making "world", and "empire" basically the same word. I enjoyed playing along as Mahit with her pragmatic yet intelligent worldview. The "imago line" concept is also quite novel and cool.

One that that didn't jive too well with me was just how polished all the personalities are. It feels kinda like the main characters have already all found their place in the world. Also felt a bit slow and longer than it needed to be.

Would give this 3 or 4 stars depending on how it settles in my head over the coming weeks.

I thought the being polished thing was part of the empire style, as compared to "barbarians" like Mahit.
/Neil

Yeah that makes sense, although even Mahit felt polished, in the sense of being comfortable in almost any environment and having herself figured out. Perhaps that's just a useful trait for an ambassador. I prefer books where the characters are struggling to grow and define themselves.

So far as I'm concerned, I'll be happy to read anything author Martine cares to write! Woman writes like an angel....
I just hope she sticks with SF!