The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion

Wasp by Eric Frank Russell is our June 2022 BotM for the Golden Age of SF, 1940-1959, period. It has over a 4 star rating.

The war has raged for nearly a year and Earth desperately needs an edge to overcome the Sirian Empire's huge advantage in personnel and equipment. That's where James Mowry comes in. Intensively trained, his appearance surgically altered, Mowry secretly lands on one of the Empire's planets. His mission: to sap morale, cause mayhem, tie up resources, and wage a one-man war on a planet of 80 million--in short, to be like the wasp buzzing around a car to distract the driver...and causing him to crash.

I started last night. It seems to be a fast read.

Definitely in the old style of SF where the aliens are basically just like humans in behavior and appearance but with slightly differently shaped ears.

Also started it - nice to see that tech of our day sometimes way over that in space empires of the 50s, even if no antigrav or hyperspace. Ші the first chapter try to parody spy thrillers of the time or should we take it at face value?

I'll be starting next week. Gotta finish another group read first.

I started today

Oleksandr wrote: "...the first chapter try to parody spy thrillers of the time or should we take it at face value? "

It doesn't feel like a parody to me. But it does feel more like a spy thriller (James Bond or Mathew Bourne) than traditional SF. There is very little in the alien civilization that seems different from Earth. This could almost be set in Eastern Europe or South America, or many other places.

I'm 30% thru and I have a growing suspicion that the book was originally intended as a spy thriller, but was turned SF for marketing reasons. However, so far I like this easy going story where the hero is just head and shoulders above everyone else

It's reading fast and enjoyable. Indeed the aliens are not that much alien. And indeed there is one south american country I visited where the police acted exactly like here ;-)

I see I gave it 3 stars from whenever I read it last, and I'm pretty sure I have a crumbling mmpb copy around. Rereading Manny's review confirmed my memory that the Sirians were a thinly-disguised WW2-era Japanese Empire. I have the pleasant happenstance of having a bunch of new books from two public libraries on hand, that I need to read before they come due -- so I likely won't get to reread this one for the group. Have fun!

It is curious to see that all agree that Sirians are badly disguised real world state, but different states/territories are suggested. For me it was Eastern Europe or the USSR

Finished. I was expecting something lighter. After all, Terry Pratchett described it as "funny". The image of a wasp in a car distracting a driver made me think the main guy would be doing small distracting things. Things like spreading misinformation or shutting down machinery.

Instead, he is a full-on terrorist. He kills indiscriminately. At first just individual members of the police and military. By the end, sinking civilian ships.

I understand the famous saying "War is Heck". In a war one must do what one must. But I still can't enjoy this.

I may have to go back and read the start again, but as I understood it the first time, the Sirians and Terrans were not actually in a war at the start. The Terrans were simply afraid that the Sirians might be planning a war. If so, that makes the Terrans much less sympathetic.

According to Amazon, people who bought this also bought "Sixth Column" by Heinlein. Well, this person will not be buying that!

Some random things I've read (but cannot confirm):
Russell was one of Campell's favorite writers.
Neil Gaiman purchased the rights to make a movie from this book but never did so.

I'm yet to finish it, but Sirians and Terrans were in a war at the start

'There's a war on.'
'I know. Everybody knows.' Mowry made a disparaging gesture. 'We've been fighting the Sirian Combine for ten months. The newspapers, radio, video and government all say so. I am credulous enough to believe the lot of them.'
'Then perhaps you're willing to stretch your credulity a bit further and swallow a few more items,' Wolf suggested.
'Such as?'
'The Terran public is complacent because, to date, nothing has happened in this sector. They know that the enemy has launched two determined attacks against our solar system and that both have been beaten off. The public has great confidence in, Terran defences. That confidence is justified. No Sirian task force will ever penetrate this far.'

Oleksandr wrote: "It is curious to see that all agree that Sirians are badly disguised real world state, but different states/territories are suggested. For me it was Eastern Europe or the USSR"

At this remove I don't remember it, but my recollection is that Russell reused the name of the real Japanese Secret Police, with minor changes, but left it unequivocal. Ah, Kempeitai or Kenpeitai, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenpeitai
Which one did Russell use?

Thanks, I didn't know of that Japanese group.
In the novel the special police are Kaimina Tempiti, or Kaitempi.

Thanks, Ed. Nails it, I'd say. At least, as to the author's intent! Readers can. of course, make of a book what they will....

It is very interesting about Kenpeitai, so WW2 Japan was one of the influences, but not the only - after all Sirian outnumber Terrans in both population and territory (planets), and unlike WW2 territories they leave during the story aren't recent captures (e.g. no guerrilla activities reported)

In his wikibio, there's this:
"In the introduction to the 1986 Del Rey Books edition of Russell's novel Wasp, Jack L. Chalker states that Russell was too old for active service, and instead worked for Military Intelligence in London, where he "spent the war dreaming up nasty tricks to play against the Germans and Japanese", including Operation Mincemeat." And another critic disputes this. But it's clear that EFR had the whole Axis in mind as the Enemy in WASP.

I was struck by how little the technology of the Sirians differed from those of Terrans. I found one, and only one, difference in technology: the automobiles were powered by an energy broadcast, which could be switched off. And I think that is only mentioned in a chapter near the end.

Ed wrote: "I was struck by how little the technology of the Sirians differed from those of Terrans. I found one, and only one, difference in technology: the automobiles were powered by an energy broadcast, wh..."

Which I guess would work if he was rewriting the Axia vs the Allies. Which, based on his wartime experience, is a decent guess.
I know there are other SF/F WW2 replays, but I can't think of any offhand. Anyone?

I decided to try another of Russell's stories, this one called . . . And Then There Were None.

I found it loads of fun! A spaceship full of military land on a planet that was colonized long ago by Terran Anarchists (or Socialists, or whatever). They live without money or leaders, everyone is considered equal to everyone else, and their guiding principle is that nobody can make them do anything they don't want to do. Try to order them to do anything and they will simply say "I won't".

This, of course, enrages the military leaders and hilarity ensues.

It is a novella-length story, and worth your time if that description sounds good to you.

Available online, with permission of the copyright owners, over on this socialist-leaning website:
https://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php

Ed wrote: "I decided to try another of Russell's stories, this one called . . . And Then There Were None.

I found it loads of fun! A spaceship full of military land on a planet that was coloni..."

I remember this one fondly: "Freedom! I won't"
Wonder if that would work in Ukraine? I gather that a lot of the Russian conscripts aren't too happy to be there. Offer them a Ukraine passport and some other inducements (cash?) -- cheaper to buy them off than to fight them! Bring a Russian truck or a load of ammo, get a bonus....

i read Space Willies, which was also great fun. I guess all of his work must be loaded with this kind of humor.

My review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Peter wrote: "I remember this one fondly: "Freedom! I won't"
Wonder if that would work in Ukraine? ..."

I don't think the anarchist society described in "... And Then There Were None" would work in practice anywhere. But people have tried. Including a short-lived anarchist system in Ukraine about 100 years ago. (That one ended not from internal failure, but because other forces were fighting it.) When a society gets large enough, you need more organization, and money.

The slogan "Freedom -- I Won't" makes me think more of the "Sovereign Citizen" idea current in USA. People who think the government has no authority over them and they can do whatever they want.

Ed wrote: "Peter wrote: "I remember this one fondly: "Freedom! I won't"
Wonder if that would work in Ukraine? ..."

I don't think the anarchist society described in "... And Then There Were None" would work i..."

I expect you are right -- but it still might be a good idea for the Ukrainians to encourage disgruntled Russian conscripts to defect, with suitable incentives to be determined by them. And of course the Russians would likely just start shooting (or threatening to) anybody who defected...

Still, it made for a good story, and I made a mental note to re-read it. I think I have a copy around, and anyway I think you found it online?
His Wiki-bio makes interesting reading. I recall being quite impressed with "Sinister Barrier" (1939-48) when I read it many, many years ago. But I've never re-read it, and based on its Wikipage, likely won't.

I’ve read Sinister Barrier many years ago as well. I liked it. I intend to read it again at some point in time.

Ed wrote: "Peter wrote: "I remember this one fondly: "Freedom! I won't"
Wonder if that would work in Ukraine? ..."..."

yes, as Ed noted, there was a real-life anarchist experiment in Ukraine in 1918, I guess one of only two real tries in the 20th century (another in Spain during the civil war). In both cases there were internal enemies and not only external threats...

Peter wrote: "might be a good idea for the Ukrainians to encourage disgruntled Russian conscripts to defect, with suitable incentives to be determined by them. "

There is such a program, including payments if a defector brings a tank o APC. It isn't known how many used this option, but I doubt that a lot

Oleksandr wrote: "Peter wrote: "might be a good idea for the Ukrainians to encourage disgruntled Russian conscripts to defect, with suitable incentives to be determined by them. "

There is such a program, including payments if a defector brings a tank o APC. It isn't known how many used this option..."

It would be tough to make a stealthy getaway in a tank. Then again, no sentry is likely to shoot the defector!

And I doubt the defectors themselves want to be publicized, for well-founded fears that their family in Russia would be persecuted.

Peter wrote: "It would be tough to make a stealthy getaway in a tank. Then again, no sentry is likely to shoot the defector!"

It is a joke here that the main supplier of warmachines to Ukraine is Russia - esp. in Feb-April when they often had to leave them due to lack of fuel or some relatively minor breakdowns. There is at least one case when a Russian defected with a tank, but tере was after his unit lost a lot of soldiers, so he was able to be alone (tank's teams are usually three)

I just found this book at work, I'm going to read it tonight so I can join in with you guys.

Recently I've re-read Pandora's Star and there one of the plot lines is about a terrorist cell and its activities and it is way more realistic by today's standards - not leaving DNA, hiding from ubiquitous cameras, working with one-time accounts to spread messages, etc

I didn't think "Wasp" was very good and almost gave up on it a couple of times. It was an Espionage, story during an intergalactic war that was written by a British writer in 1957 during the Cold War.

There wasn't much use of the science fiction tropes used during that time (I was born in 1947 and I'm familiar with 1950's SF) and I don't know if he was being lazy or had some other reason to just refer to typical 50's items like typewriters still being used in the future. I thought the writing, especially the dialog, was awkward and clunky with cardboard characters.

Is it possible that Russell, who worked for military intelligence in WW2, was trying to provide ideas for how something like this could be done during the Cold War?

I didn't think the idea of the"wasp" was strong enough to carry a novel length story that had little else going for it in the area of new and interesting (even for 1957) science fiction ideas.

Jim wrote: "I didn't think "Wasp" was very good ..."

I agree. Not horrible, just not much there.

Ed wrote: "Jim wrote: "I didn't think "Wasp" was very good ..."

I agree. Not horrible, just not much there."

I may be viewing it through the golden gauze of ancient history. (Makes note: Don't re-read! Why spoil the memories?)
Has anyone read other EFR books that did hold up to 2022 sensibilities? He lived 1905 - 1978 -- died the year I met my wife-to-be! Long. long ago for light SF adventures to hold up.
Per Wikipedia, 1978 is when Carl Sagan wrote that "Russell's stories were examples of "desperately need[ed] exploration of alternative futures, both experimental and conceptual" " Huh. We need specifics, Dr. Sagan. Too late for that: he died in 1996...

I've been noticing, in (forex) re-reading 60s & 70s-era Nebula winners, that not many of those writers are still alive, either: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Kind of depressing: I've already outlived quite a few of those guys...
"Great Caesar's bust is on the shelf,
And I don't feel so well myself."
[On the Vanity of Earthly Greatness, by Arthur Guiterman]

Like Ed mentioned, the Sirian's are more human like than foreign aliens. They have purple skin and walk bowlegged, we are told they eat different foods, and they have a couple unique phrases.
Also, there is little science in the book to qualify it as science fiction.
For me, I found Mowry to be good at hiding himself and rather unfeeling but largely unremarkable. The plot was simplistic as well, which made it easier for my mind to wander. There was less to keep track of.

Oleksandr wrote: "I'm 30% thru and I have a growing suspicion that the book was originally intended as a spy thriller, but was turned SF for marketing reasons. However, so far I like this easy going story where the ..."

I finished it a few days ago. I agree with you, this seemed to be a spy story dressed in Sci-Fi clothing. I enjoyed it mildly.