Classics and the Western Canon discussion

The Human Condition is beginning to wind down. I have no doubt parts of this abstruse book will be sticking with us as we decide what to tackle next.

The moderators have privately labored to put together a list of works and are now exposing it to the human plurality of its members for speech and action. Members are free to distinguish themselves in this forum by giving speeches in support of their favorites and to take action by voting on them next week.

FOURTH READ OF 2022 NOMINEES
Dead Souls by Nikolai Gogol
The Hunchback of Notre-Dame by Victor Hugo
The Tenant of Wildfell Hall by Anne Brontë
The Social Contract by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Persian Letters by Montesquieu AND Candide by Voltaire
Mansfield Park by Jane Austen
The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas

UPCOMING CONDITIONS
Jul 20 - Jul 26 The The Human Condition Week 6 + this member discussion
Jul 27 - Aug 2 The Human Condition Week 7 + Poll
Aug 3 - Aug 9 The Human Condition Week 8
Aug 10 - Aug 16 Interim Read Week 1
Aug 17 - Aug 23 Interim Read Week 2
Aug 24 - Aug 30 4rth Read of 2022 Week 1 Discussion

Hi, All! I only jump in about once a year, so taking my ask with a grain of salt, I'm looking for a classic I haven't read before. (If you're still using your weighting system based on number of comments, then that's a useful substitute for grain of salt!) My votes would be for either Candide or Dead Souls. Grim title, but great premise. Has this group ever read Gogol? Not sure how to look that up myself, but I don't recall seeing him turn up before. Interested to see what you all choose.

Kathy wrote: "Has this group ever read Gogol? Not sure how to look that up myself, but I don't recall seeing him turn up before..."

Kathy, Dead Souls has been in a couple of polls, but it has never won. We haven't read/discussed it as a group. We read one of Gogol's short stories, The Nose, as an interim read in June. Here's the thread if you're interested:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Five nineteenth century novels. Three eighteenth century social-political writings. Interesting.

Gary wrote: "Five nineteenth century novels. Three eighteenth century social-political writings. Interesting."

Elaborate, Gary?

Lily wrote: "Elaborate, Gary?"

I guess it strikes me as a fairly focussed list (which was likely inadvertent) that describes a narrower range of books than typical prior book selection lists. Have we moved away form the Random Book Generator™? This is just an observation and a question, not a complaint.

As many friends are going through a libertarianism furor phase, I would love to read "The Social Contract" by Rousseau :)

But I would also love to read Gogol and "Dead Souls" received many votes during the last poll...

Gary wrote: "Lily wrote: "Elaborate, Gary?"

I guess it strikes me as a fairly focussed list (which was likely inadvertent) that describes a narrower range of books than typical prior book selection lists. Have..."

We are still using the Random Book Generator. We decided to include Gogol and the Hunchback because they were popular in the last poll. With one exception, the remaining selections were from the RBG.

I vote for Rousseau’s Social Contract. Good for these difficult times.

Poll is posted
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...

Voting starts on: Jul 26, 2022 09:00PM PDT

I had to drop out of the Arendt discussion as it was a difficult read for me that had me way too far behind, I ended up not finishing the book. I must admit the more philosophical choices appear not to be a good fit for me.

Kathy asked a clarifying question on the poll which seemed worth repeating here: Are the Persian Letters and Candide supposed to be a single selection?

Yes, Candide is fairly short so the thought was to add it to the Persian Letters for a combination read of these two philosophic/social satires.

Chris wrote: "I had to drop out of the Arendt discussion as it was a difficult read for me that had me way too far behind, I ended up not finishing the book. I must admit the more philosophical choices appear no..."

What anyone chooses to read is an individual choice so no arguments here. I just want to offer a slightly different perspective — as no two fiction writers or poets are alike, no two philosophers are alike. Someone who doesn’t get on with Hannah Arendt might get on well with a different philosopher ;). Take me for example — I struggled with the Arendt, too, but have had more success with Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, and others. Just a thought

Tamara wrote: "Kathy wrote: "Has this group ever read Gogol? Not sure how to look that up myself, but I don't recall seeing him turn up before..."

Kathy, Dead Souls has been in a couple of polls, bu..."

Thanks, Tamara!

Susan wrote: "Kathy asked a clarifying question on the poll which seemed worth repeating here: Are the Persian Letters and Candide supposed to be a single selection?

Yes, Candide is fairly short so the thought ..."

Thanks for the clarification, Susan. I wondered if that was the thinking.

Susan wrote: What anyone chooses to read is an individual choice so no arguments here. I just want to offer a slightly different perspective — as no two fiction writers or poets are alike, no two philosophers are alike. Someone who doesn’t get on with Hannah Arendt might get on well with a different philosopher ;). Take me for example — I struggled with the Arendt, too, but have had more success with Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, and others. Just a thought

Appreciate your thoughts, Susan. I've had similar trouble, although not quite as much, with the ancient philosophers as well. Perhaps I am too much of an analytical thinker and have trouble with more abstract thinking.

Chris wrote: "Susan wrote: What anyone chooses to read is an individual choice so no arguments here. I just want to offer a slightly different perspective — as no two fiction writers or poets are alike, no two p..."

Chris -- elaborate the distinction(s) you make between "analytical thinking" and "abstract thinking"? (My thoughts are playing between different types of physics as I pose the question ... are there boundaries where empirical becomes theoretical or abstract, is one poor way of asking the question .... Or... or...)

Helen wrote: "I vote for Rousseau’s Social Contract. Good for these difficult times."

You need to vote on the poll for it to "count", as my son says to me about taking my convictions into the polling booth!?

I see that poor Jane has no votes at all, so I just want to go on record as saying that Mansfield Park may be my favorite Austen novel, as I wouldn't want anyone to be discouraged from reading it! ;)

It is one of my favorites also! I recently reread all of Austen's works, which is why cast my vote that direction.

Kathy wrote: "I see that poor Jane has no votes at all, so I just want to go on record as saying that Mansfield Park may be my favorite Austen novel, as I wouldn't want anyone to be discouraged from reading it! ;)"

It’s one of my favorites, too, but I decided to vote for something I hadn’t read before.

Last day to vote.

Poll ends at: Aug 02, 2022 08:59PM PDT

Kathy wrote: "I see that poor Jane has no votes at all, so I just want to go on record as saying that Mansfield Park may be my favorite Austen novel, as I wouldn't want anyone to be discouraged from reading it! ;)"

It is a shame!
I'm not voting this time because I don't know how much time I can devote to this upcoming read.

Lily wrote: You need to vote on the poll for it to "count", as my son says to me about taking my convictions into the poll..."

I just cast my votes for Rousseau’s Social Contract, and my head will be in trouble should it "win" tonight . But I do hope the group will return to Rousseau on at least another poll, and/or perhaps take a look together at Edmund Burke.

In the meantime, Gogol.....

Lily wrote: Chris -- elaborate the distinction(s) you make between "analytical thinking" and "abstract thinking"? (My thoughts are playing between different types of physics as I pose the question ... are there boundaries where empirical becomes theoretical or abstract, is one poor way of asking the question .... Or... or...)

Definitely scientific, & empirical; but think concrete. I do think of it as a flaw not to be able to understand or process more theoretical, philosophical etc type works. It's weird though, I did ace my Biomedical ethics course, but to me it was quite logical. In art, I don't appreciate the abstract either. I like more realism, impressionism etc.

I missed the deadline to vote. I would have voted for Gogol. And after so much "head" stuff with Arendt, I would say "no" to Rousseau. Not the Gogol does not mess with The Mind.

Dead Souls by Nikolai Gogol is our winner, next and Fourth Read of 2022. Discussions will open August 24th. after a two week interim read.

Here are the final weighted results.

R	W	W%	Book
8	18	45%	Dead Souls
4	10	25%	The Three Musketeers
3	6	15%	The Social Contract
1	3	8%	The Hunchback of Notre-Dame
1	2	5%	Persian Letters & Candide
1	1	3%	The Tenant of Wildfell Hall