Read Women discussion

This is our discussion thread for our August Read Around the World selection - The Tenant by Katrine Engberg, her debut novel taking place in Denmark. Kate will lead the discussion, and since she's on point for both group reads this month, I wanted to open the threads up a couple of days early to give her more time to launch each.

Thanks, Carol! I appreciate the extra time :)

Kate wrote: "Thanks, Carol! I appreciate the extra time :)"

Heck, yeah! We’re all grateful for your two great book noms :)

Thanks, I’ll be joining in too. I love crime novels!

Great, Isabelle! Good to have you, and hope you enjoy the book!

Isabelle wrote: "Thanks, I’ll be joining in too. I love crime novels!"

Ditto ~ this one appears to be hitting my sweet spot: women authors+fiction-in-translation+crime/mystery. I just picked up my public library's copy. I haven't participated with this group yet, so I'm really looking forward to it.

Welcome, Sara. I am only a chapter or so into this so far, but I love mysteries, especially detective novels. Nordic or British is a bonus. So far I am loving the banter between the two detectives. Also hoping there’s a bit of darkness in this one and that we have fun figuring it out together.

I am on page 14-15 and delighted. I also read an interview or several and understand that it’s not “quite” as dark as is typical for Nordic noir, for which I’m actually pleased. I’m a bit weary of the child abuse theme, for example, or maybe I just need a wee break before I encounter it again.

Yeah, I am now further in and enjoying it still. I thought it might be very dark and graphic since Kathy Reichs blurbs it. So far the unpleasant descriptions are pretty tasteful, though, which I definitely don’t mind.

I have started this and am enjoying it so far. It pulled me right in.

Glad to hear it, Susan! Without revealing too much, I can say the pacing is great. 80 pages in and I don’t want to stop!

I'm on page 73 and I'm fairly sure I know what happened. I'll be so disappointed if I'm right. Check back with me later.

I’m on p. 95 and have no idea, but I’m enjoying the investigation so far. I would like to know more about both of the detectives. We’re getting some backstory on one but not as much on the other.

I’m on page 60, and the one-pagers inserted from time to time have only begun. I just read about (view spoiler)[dude’s tailing his wife anew Year’s Eve and their subsequent divorce (hide spoiler)]. Ermm okay.

Sara wrote: "I'm on page 73 and I'm fairly sure I know what happened. I'll be so disappointed if I'm right. Check back with me later."

Sara, there was a big reveal around page 50 in my copy, and that was just too early. I can say that things are not what they seem, nothing is simple.

Susan wrote: "I’m on p. 95 and have no idea, but I’m enjoying the investigation so far. I would like to know more about both of the detectives. We’re getting some backstory on one but not as much on the other."

I agree, Susan. The detectives' relationship and interactions with each other add some humour and heart to the story. It would be great to learn more about Anette as well as Jeppe.

Carol wrote: "I’m on page 60, and the one-pagers inserted from time to time have only begun. I just read about [spoilers removed]. Ermm okay."

There are a lot of twists, Carol. I like the one-pagers and how they connect to the rest of the story,

I am 150+ pages in and something happened that changes everything....

I finished it this morning and liked it. I will read more in the series. I thought there were plenty of twists and turns to keep the reader guessing, but I felt like things got a bit too crazy and melodramatic near the end. This is a minor quibble, though.

I was a little surprised that the story was weighted so heavily to the side of one of the detectives. I think the fact that the series is named for both of the detectives set an expectation in me. It would be interesting if the other detective was weighted more heavily in another book in the series.

SuSan— I finished the book as well, and I agree with all of your points. The end was a little too convenient, but the twins kept me guessing and wanting to learn more. I am also hoping Anette has a more prominent role as the series goes on, but I think the story focuses more on Jeppe, since the conflict is more closely tied to his character. I am definitely interested in continuing the series.

It’s a bit hard to have a true “discussion “ about a mystery without giving away key plot points, but I do think the characters in this one and their banter are interesting. What do you all make of the author’s choice to focus on Jeppe? Did you find his actions believable? Did you feel that Anette was developed enough?

I’m at page 138. Anette annoys me as a character. I find her to be unprofessional and impatient without her impatience being driven by a sense of urgency. These two don’t have a vibe of long-established partners, and I’m a little surprised that Engberg didn’t chose to make them newly assigned partners if the relationship she depicts was her preference. Still, early days.

Consequently, I’m glad Engberg devoted more time to Jeppe because it’s less time I’m spending with someone stomping around, complaining, rolling her eyes, etc.

I’m not a spoiler averse reader. Instead of the hassle of spoiler tags, I find if you put SPOILERS AHEAD at the top of a comment, that ought to allow for readers to choose whether to read. Your call, of course.

Hi Carol, Good idea about the spoilers. Interesting that you find Anette annoying. Her personality is so different and clashes a lot with Jeppe’s, so it’s a bit unbelievable that they are longtime partners.

Everyone should feel free to share their thoughts as they go. Just let us know somehow if you feel your comments are spoilery, as Carol suggests.

I'm about half-way through, and the one thing that is driving me nuts is the number of times the author gets self-referential and says something like "are we in the middle of some fucking crime novel, or what?" ~That was the latest one that I came across, but at my count it's at least the fifth time one of the characters has said something like that. I really hate it when comments to the effect of "you'd think we were in a book" are actually in a book. It takes me right out of the story and I'm immediately aware that there is a writer--no longer in the background--telling me this tale and not allowing me to suspend my disbelief. Grrrr. It's a very first-time-author problem that the editor should have steered her away from. Anyone else aggravated by that? Any other nits to pick?

Hi Sara, it didn’t really bother me, but I can see how it could come across as irritating, pretentious or unnecessary. Without spoiling anything, I can say that the ending was way too melodramatic for my taste. I like a good twist, but this was ridiculous and knocked a star off my rating.

Sara - I've noticed that as well and agree with your take, although it's down my list of problematic debut offerings. I tend to notice repetition of quirky behavior, my current hobby horse is the Anette character for this reason, but I'm still just under 200 pages in.

On the plus side, and I realize that "for a debut" is faint praise, I'm delighted with the strong sense of place Engberg gives us. I really, really enjoy books that make me feel like I'm in a real place, and her use of Copenhagen as a character is strong. I also appreciate her pacing and ability to shift between locations and characters in a way that I take for granted in police procedurals, but debut authors rarely do it this well.

Different topic - the mention or use of food in police procedurals. I haven't made a study of this, but my anecdotal observation is that police procedurals written by former cops or other enforcement pros don't discuss every breakfast and lunch their characters consume, unless they want to mention local cuisine to ground their novel in culture, or have something happen when a cop stops in somewhere to pick up coffee to-go. OTOH, authors who haven't been law enforcement devote so much real estate to coffee, lunch choices, etc. even alcoholic beverages because they imagine cops/PIs/DSs organizing their days around consumption as if they were office workers. It's not filler as much distraction without a benefit - again, unless someone is describing the wonderful Danish luncheon a character they are about to interview happens to be consuming. But that's rarely the case. Donuts and coffee are cliches. No reader cares what sandwich is consumed unless it's Thursday in the Endeavor series.

I agree, Carol-- I felt like I was in Copenhagen while reading this, and it has definitely moved up my list of places to visit. Also, there are many characters and threads to this book, and for the most part they are juggled in a way that makes sense and is easy to follow.

I know a lot of people that don't like a lot of food in their books!

Carol wrote: "No reader cares what sandwich is consumed unless it's Thursday in the Endeavor series."

Agreed. And, oh, that Endeavor... <3
;)

Also, agreed on Copenhagen and Engberg's sense of place. Very effective.

I don't generally read this type of book, but I'm really enjoying this one so far. I'm a little tickled that I'm reading "along" with the story as the dates are these actual dates I've been reading, August 8n 9, 10, etc. I found the comments about being in a crime mystery book funny because of the fact that (view spoiler)[the first murder was based off of Esther's writing, (hide spoiler)]and generally where the story is heading so far. But, since I don't read these maybe it's just novel to me.
I'm nearly done, kind of hoping to finish along with the investigation

So glad you are enjoying this one, Anita. I also noticed the dates. I was trying to finish the book early on in the month, but it would have been cool to read it according to the dates in the book. It took me a while to figure out what the one-psge sections were about.


SPOILER
The mystery within a mystery (Esther’s book within a book) was something I really liked, and left me with even more questions.

I like that aspect very much as well.

For anyone who's a member at Edelweiss+, the third and final book in the series, The Sanctuary, is available to request. The release date is February 7, 2023.

Thanks, Carol! I will definitely continue this series at some point, hoping to get to book #2 before long.

Kate wrote: "Thanks, Carol! I will definitely continue this series at some point, hoping to get to book #2 before long."

I bought the second book used about a year ago, so I'm committed to these two. Then I'll decide where the 3rd fits in overall lifetime reading priority. 'cause that's how I think at this point. lol

🤓

Have you ever seen a play with by amateur actors who all seem to be acting completely disconnected from one another? I mean, they're all on the same stage, but they don't quite have the skill to be responding to each other rather than just reciting their lines. That's what I'm getting from the characters in this book. I can't tell if it is a flaw in the writing, the translation, or if that disconnection was actually intended by the author, but it's how they are all coming across to me. Everyone is reciting, but there are no actual relationships, no interactions that I can feel.

If you can't tell, I'm a very character-driven reader.

Perhaps this isn't even bothering anyone else.

Hi Sara, I do know what you mean, not directly about amateur theatre, but definitely about translated literature. I am actually a trained translator and interpreter, but in Spanish.Especially when dealing with literature, it can be hard not to make the text rife with what we call translationese— in other words, the quality of the text suffers because it is obviously translated. This particularly bothers me when the dialogue seems unnatural.

Maybe this is why I often avoid translated books when reading for pleasure.

That being said, I did not particularly find it a problem in this book. I am curious, do you have knowledge of Danish or related languages? Sometimes when reading Spanish language books translated to English, I can almost tell what the original said, and it is annoying when I can come up with a better (or less clunky) translation off the top of my head.

I cam also see how this might bother you as a character-driven reader. The characters are pretty one-sided, especially Anette. I hope to see more development ad the series goes on.

Kate wrote: "Hi Sara, I do know what you mean, ... I am curious, do you have knowledge of Danish or related languages? Sometimes when reading..."

No, Kate, I don't know Danish, but I have read quite a lot of writing translated to English from other languages. And I know English really, really well. It's nice to hear about "translationese" -- I have run into that before, and into it's opposite, i.e. when a very fine work is well translated and the magic dances off the page. That is a truly delightful experience to me, since I know I miss out on so many of the world's perspectives by being thoroughly uni-lingual. On behalf of the deeply uni-lingual English speakers of the world, thank you for your service in translating our Spanish speaking sisters and brothers to us, and us to them!

As a translator, if you didn't notice translationese, then perhaps the feeling--or lack thereof--was what the author intended me to experience. After all, we are seeing most of it through Jeppe's experience, and he's a pretty disconnected (view spoiler)[and drug-addled (hide spoiler)] guy.

I am so happy when uni-lingual people choose to read translated books. It is a very interesting and rewarding jobs, especially interpreting!

I have read some excellent translations as well, especially of Fredrik Backman’s books. As far as this group goes, it’s a shame he’s not a woman because he is a fabulous writer with such great insight into human experience, both male and female. His books would provoke great discussion, and he is a true master. I can’t help thinking about his books when I read other Nordic authors.

Hello, I’m glad I am finished with it because sincerely, I really did not find it appealing in terms of character development, story, writing style… I did not like the fact that we knew the identity of the murderer in the middle of the story so no real mystery and then the rest only consisted in trying to find him. Then, like Kate, I did not feel related to the characters, which I found underdeveloped and did not feel anything for them. To tell the truth I felt like watching a b-rated series.

Hi Isabelle, sorry this did not work for you. I also thought the big reveal came too early. There were still some surprises for me, though. I thought that Esther was the murderer when we discovered what the one-page sections were.

I read quite a few detective stories and I can easily concede that this one has some major flaws, even though I personally enjoyed it enough to continue the series. It’s been a pleasant surprise for me how many people have resd this book and what a great discussion we’re having.

I finished it and thought it was a 3.5 and strong overall for a debut in this genre. I didn’t realize until the last thirty pages or so that Esther and Jeppe are the characters Engberg was most interested in exploring. The ending itself was a bit odd, but I attribute that to the novel being a debut more than anything. In my experience mystery/police procedural authors don’t begin to mail the ending until Book 5 or so.

I didn’t have any problems with the translation or any character but Anette, and then primarily as I said above, my problem is these two long-term partners didn’t act as if they knew each other well. A rookie writing mistake.

I thought Engberg excelled at pacing and weaving the threads together. Her weakness was the actual mystery and her explanation for the murders and (view spoiler)[ Bovin’s motive for killing Julie was not credible. (hide spoiler)]

I’m glad we read this and discussed it, and I look forward to continuing the series. Thanks, Kate!

Totally agree, Carol. I also rated it 4 stars, and did think the pacing of the book was spot-on as I wanted to keep turning the pages to find out what was going on. I did think the characters needed to be developed more, but I am more than willing to continue that series and see how the characters evolve.
You are most welcome, Carol! This is quite different from most of the books we've read this year, and it has been great to read it with this group.

Carol wrote: "I’m at page 138. Anette annoys me as a character. I find her to be unprofessional and impatient without her impatience being driven by a sense of urgency. These two don’t have a vibe of long-establ..."

I could't agree more, Carol. I was reading this in my kindle and I think I even made a note at some point along the lines of "how has this person become a detective?". She has absolutely no people skills and patience would go a long way to making her better at interrogation.

There's nothing wrong with partnering detectives that have different personalities or skills but they should at least have some sort of rapport/respect for one another. I imagine that you'd need that in order to have someone's back in a tought moment. But I also noted that there isn't much camaraderie between any of the members of the team.

Sara wrote: "I'm about half-way through, and the one thing that is driving me nuts is the number of times the author gets self-referential and says something like "are we in the middle of some fucking crime nov..."

That was also annoying me, Sara. I felt that the author wasn't sure what kind of novel she was writing or that she was trying to be clever and blend a crime novel with a meta-fiction, amongst other things.

Kate wrote: "I cam also see how this might bother you as a character-driven reader. The characters are pretty one-sided, especially Anette. I hope to see more development ad the series goes on. ..."

For me, at least, the problem with having such one-dimensional characters is that I have no desire to read any more books in the series. I think that you need to feel some sort of empathy or connection with the characters to genuinely want to buy the next book in the series, or there needs to be some unfinished business. But this was tied up fairly neatly at the end of the story.

Absolutely, Liesl, this book could stand on its own and there was no cliffhanger at the end. Sorry this one was not for you.

Kate wrote: "Absolutely, Liesl, this book could stand on its own and there was no cliffhanger at the end. Sorry this one was not for you."

No problem, Kate. It was an easy beach read.

👍