The Seasonal Reading Challenge discussion

This is the discussion thread for the Fall 2022 Group Read The Cartographers in the category Fiction - Murder Mystery. Please post your comments here. This thread is not restricted to those choosing this book for task 20.10, feel free to join in the discussion. Warning- spoilers ahead!

The requirement for task 20.10: You must participate in the book's discussion thread below with at least one post about the contents of the book or your reaction to the book after you have read the book.

Dlmrose

This book was enjoyable, but a bit (a lot) predictable.
Don't miss the Author's Note and the Acknowledgements. I thought the info there was very interesting- and I could see the inspiration for this book.
I have driven on County Rd 206 outside Roscoe, NY hundreds of times (Rockland House: "Eat here or we'll both starve") so it was fun to read a book set there.
I was reminded of Paper Towns by John Green who set his paper town in the same place outside Roscoe. The real-life story could have influenced his work as well, or two hours on Rt 17 out of NYC is beyond the real world...

I'm not reading this for the challenge, as I read it a couple of months ago for another GR group. It was the sort of book that, if I had read it in one gulp and moved on without doing much deep thinking, would have entertained me fine, but as we were discussing sections over the course of a week, the flaws in how the world-building worked became VERY distracting and detracted.

plus of course the cover was misleading: there were no books involved, only maps, so why have books on the cover? eh? eh?!

Cat wrote: "I'm not reading this for the challenge, as I read it a couple of months ago for another GR group. It was the sort of book that, if I had read it in one gulp and moved on without doing much deep thi..."

Exactly!
It was entertaining as I was reading it, but the more I think about it the more problems it has.

I had this book from the library and planned for last season's challenge. Realising it was going to be one of the group reads I kept renewing the loan. The library probably thinks i have lost it.

Disappointingly a book I had looked forward to turned out to be really hard going. I cannot say I was greatly entertained by the narrative which i felt had huge holes in it and at times felt repetitive as we got yet another person's take on the same tale. Neither did i really feel anything for any of the characters.

For a shortish book this one has taken me far too long to read - partly because i just could not find the desire to knuckle down to it. I am ready to move onto something with more appeal (i hope)

Creynard, here...

This one was a slow burn for me. I picked it up a couple of times, read a little, then put it down. Once it got going, though, I did too.

The Paper Towns idea came to me early on, and I figured out the "twist" or a few of them easily. The names William and Wally are just too similar not to clue into the significance.

I enjoyed the use of different voices for the flashback scenes.
And I've recommended the book to a few people.

I enjoyed this one. I haven't read Paper Towns so I don't have any connections there. The different perspectives of the same story didn't bother me or seem overly repetitive. I was entertained throughout. The whole scanning at the end thing wasn't the best because if the whole premise was true there would be other secret places so incorporating that one wouldn't complete the world map, but I still liked the journey overall.

i just started this last night - i actually bought this in my BOTM box back in March - so its been sitting on my shelf staring at me...

*READERBOARD NAME DENISE M*

I'm glad someone else mentioned the Paper Towns connection. As soon as they started talking about "phantom settlements" and New York state, my immediate thought was, "They're looking for Agloe!"

I enjoyed the book, although I'll admit, it wasn't what I expected. I love the NYPL, so the fact that it was partially set there was really fun to read. I did NOT expect the magical realism (I guess I missed the GoodReads genre tag) - it just seemed like a standard murder mystery with interesting geography and cartography elements at first. And then the story took a turn, which felt a little bit out of nowhere, but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it. It just felt almost like two different stories that were smushed together, if that makes sense.

I was happy to be surprised a few times. The reveals about Humphrey or William's true identities - didn't see that coming at all. I was excited to see what happened to Tam and was a bit blindsided by Nell's final fate. I almost wish this book had a sequel because I want to know what happened to her.

Also, I want a copy of the Dreamer's Atlas. That was just a cool idea.

4 stars from me.

The book's premise was so interesting at the start yet the execution so disappointing that I fully knocked the rating down by 2 stars somewhere midway through. My reaction probably echoes reviews by those who give the book 1 star on the page, fitting the pattern for divisive books that people either really love or truly hate. I usually love all things libray-related, and the mystery plus fantastical elements have so much potential at first. Then, the narrative voices of younger characters bog down the mystery with (what I think to be) unnecessary romantic drama. The main character could have been a more empowered, interesting protagonist, one whose level of maturity befits her educational achievements a bit more. She could have gone on her self-discovery quest without Felix and little would have changed. In fact, merge Felix and Swann, and remove the Lieutenant altogether. I guess I went in expecting more fantasy than romance. The inner thoughts and descriptions drag the book out longer than necessary, which would have been perfectly fine if they bear interesting literary elements, if they probe into the debth of emotions and existence. Instead, I felt misled by the beautiful cover; the writing was so run-of-the-mill. I guess I would have rated it higher if my expectations had been different.

Also, Goodreads' characters section spoiled the final reveal for me so do avoid it. Though, I agree with Dlmrose that the twists are predictable. The hints tend to be repetitive. Here's to hoping the author's next book would be more subtle!

I thought this book was fine but nothing special. I gave it 3 stars. I agree with others who found the story drawn out and often predictable. And the romance really doesn't contribute much to the story. The underlying magical idea is fun, and it was interesting that what really moves the story isn't magic, but human emotions of love, pride, jealousy, ambition, etc.

I enjoyed the setting in the NYPL and I have also lived near Rte 17 in upstate New York. But I agree that some of the plot doesn't make a lot of sense.

i'm conflicted as i get ready to wrap this up - i haven't read Paper Towns (although now I want to)...but i like the idea of mystery settlements and hidden clues in maps - the flashbacks are interesting (probably more so than the main part of the story) - but i wish it was a bit clearer (i.e. name of POV and then time period), there were a few times i was reading and missed the name at the top of the page and had to backtrack

This was entertaining, but I wouldn't say it was memorable or lasting in impact. I think the problem for me was that the author seemed to want to tell too many stories. The story of the original cartographer group, and particular adding in the twist about the phantom town.- good. The magical realism story about additions to maps - also good. At times, tho, putting the two together seemed rather jarring, particularly when we add murder and robbery to it. And, of course, the over the top family drama and the romance angle - seemed as though the author just wanted to throw in a bit of everything.

I gave it 3 stars, because I thought it was readable and interesting, but not really anything special.

final thoughts as i finished up last night - good but not great book - like Sandy said, tried to put too much into the plot - i saw the twist coming about 2/3 of the way through the book

Wow.. I truly have not read a book similar to this. I truly enjoyed the mystery/ thriller aspects as I could not put this book down! The idea of building a world by map making was a little confusing for most of the book… not sure if it was the different POVs piecing together the story, but it wasn’t until the last section that I started to understand the science in this fantasy.

I think a spin off of this book on if the phantom settlements being a real piece in the world if you owned the map and was created for that specific function would be amazing. I thought at first Wally was creating these phantom settlements in a map in order to commit these crimes without being caught, but then found out it came from old editions… potentially a missed option for the crime aspect of the novel.

I think my main concerns come from how Tam survived the fire… the book said her lungs cleared lol! Okay… And then if baby Nell still had the map on her how come it kicked every out but Tam? The part of Tam using the printing press was not explained well if that’s how she did it.

Overall I think this book is a solid 4 stars because it captivated me until the very end, plot holes and difficult science aren’t a huge deal breaker for me in books so I think as a whole this book was amazingly clever and had room for a potential spin off!

It took a long time for things to get moving in this book. It started to move along more once the flashback chapters started. That William was Wally was very predictable, but Humphrey being Bear was a surprise.

Because the start was so slow, I think that forced the author to wrap things up too quickly at the end. Everybody just accepted Tam's reappearance after supposedly dying in a fire? I found that hard to take. I was also very sad that Swann was killed. I liked his character.

A great premise, and a nice, escapist read. Not great, but good.

Sad to say that this was not for me.

The premise focusing on a mysterious map and the murder of a cartographer sounded so promising. Unfortunately, the execution does not live up to the potential for several reasons. First, the pacing is too slow, which means that it took me much longer to read than expected.

Second, none of the characters are particularly engaging. The reasons for the rift between Nell and her father as well as Nell and Felix are exceedingly contrived/ Moreover, this ultimately leads to far too many inexplicable plot holes.

Third, the magical realism elements are poorly thought out and add nothing to the story. It would have been better as a straightforward murder investigation.

Finally and most importantly given that this is a mystery, the identity of the villain and the twist are very predictable. Perhaps I have just read too many crime novels.

I agree that the reason for the huge rift between Nell and her father didn't make sense, I kept thinking I had missed something. The romance seemed shoehorned in. I also agree that a high-profile person like Tam reappearing like that would have been a huge media circus.

A weird thing is that the next book I read after this one was A Great Reckoning, a mystery in the real world, where a hand-drawn map of a place that no longer exists is important to the plot. The inspector even says, "Maps are magic".

I really liked this book! As mentioned by other commenters, some things don't make a lot of sense, but if you read it quick for fun, it's easy to sail through and enjoy the pace. I also haven't read Paper Towns, so that probably helped this story not be as predictable for me. I did mostly figure out the ending, and I did question the prudence of Nell telling the whole story to all these people.

I loved the idea that places could only exist if you had a map showing them. But this isn't the book that I would have liked to have read with that concept in it.
I also found it too predictable (was Humphrey Bear a child's show in the US or just in Australia?). I didn't like the characters, particularly Nell. Too many things were left unexplained or simply didn't make sense.

I really enjoyed this book. I thought it was a unique idea of the town only appearing if you had the map. It did remind me of Paper Towns and makes me wonder if this truly happens.

There were some interesting concepts here - a peek behind the curtain of mapmaking - makes me wonder if "Easter Eggs" appear still....I used a Thomas Bros. atlas a LOT during my career before GPS - we even had a huge detailed county map that covered an entire wall in the office and when we got a call, would stand at it....working out our route. But sometimes, I just scanned it for fun, looking at it and thinking about all the places, their names and how to get to them - so it was with this love of atlases and maps that prompted me to choose this book.
Alas, it left me longing - the story line was very predictable, and the characters were annoying. But I did enjoy some bits, mostly those that paired up with my original love of maps.
Guess I need to read Paper Towns!!

This book was a disappointment to me. I was expecting a National Treasure-type Adventure/mystery, but when it veered into magical realism I was caught completely off guard. Unfortunately, the magic didn’t hold up for me (did they have to be holding the map? Or looking at it? But then sometimes they weren’t?) and the ending was so rushed. I washed to like this a lot more than I did.

This one started on 3 stars, went up to 5 and ended at 4. I did enjoy it, although the plot was a bit predictable at times. The ending left me a bit disappointed. It's a good story, though, and I'll be recommending it to friends.

I found this book to be an entertaining read, and I enjoyed the narrative structure with the past being shared by the various folks she encountered. I did find the characters to be pretty one-dimensional, and a lot of their decisions didn't really make sense. I also really liked the concept for the magic system, but it felt like the way it played out was confusing and had a lot of holes--lots of questions and inconsistences regarding which maps work and when. Overall, I'd recommend to certain friends but also won't be seeking out a hardcopy for my favorites shelf.

I really liked this book! Yes, there were some flaws, but I’m a fan of magical realism, libraries, and (who knew?) maps too, I guess. I kept thinking of a box of old highway maps in a box in my basement—also of the original architect’s plans for our old house, with a room that was never built. All kinds of magical possibilities!

I enjoyed the beginning of the book and I was fascinated by the premise of the map and town that only appears with the map. Ultimately, though, I didn't feel satisfied with the mystery and explanation of Tam's survival. I felt more could have been done with that part of the story. I think I had trouble buying into the idea that keeping Nell from her mother and distant from her father was at all worth the sacrifice. The book still kept my interest and gets some credit for the creative ideas behind it.

Bookwrm526

I enjoyed the story as I was reading it, but I agree with most of the other posters that there is nothing in it that will stick with me, and that there are a lot of plot holes.

I was very intrigued by the premise, especially because I listened to a fascinating podcast episode about copyright traps in maps, and the story of this town. Most of the members of the Cartographers group were pretty much interchangeable in my mind, without enough characterization to make me care which one was talking in any given flashback. As most of you have said, I realized who the murderer had to be before the reveal.

I didn't notice the holes in the world building while I was reading, so I was able to enjoy the story enough to give it three stars.

I gave it three stars because

megscl

I agree with others that it was both not believable yet still predictable. Coralie, I also wondered about the Humphrey Bear thing (I'm also Australian). And I didn't find the parent-child interactions realistic. It was reasonably enjoyable to read though and I give it 3 or 3.5 stars.

My review:
An old school magical mystery with hidden rooms, disappearing bookshops, and old maps. I found the second half dragged a bit; there was too big a gap between revelation of the mystery and resolution of the story.

I liked the beginning of the book, but by the end, I was just wanting it to get to the end. I had figured out a lot of what was going to happen, but still was a bit surprised at Nell's fate. Overall, I liked the idea of the book, but the author added just a bit too many unbelievable magical elements for me to thoroughly enjoy it.

I think one of my problems with the book was that I listened to the audio. At times, it took a few minutes for me to realize that a new character was relating past events. Without seeing chapter breaks, that changeover was harder to catch.

trishhartuk

I came into this without knowing much about it, and avoided reading the comments in this thread until I'd finished it.

As someone who loves maps, mysteries and a touch of magic, it ticked a lot of boxes once I got into it. The premise of places becoming real because someone draw them on a map really appealed to me, and I read enough fantasy and spec fic that the magical realism element added to it, rather than subtracted.

To me, it was pretty obvious who "Wally" was going to turn out to be by about halfway through - halfway because until then I had two candidates, but I was glad the other one turned out to be Bear, not Wally.

I will admit it did slow down towards the end, as KmarieD has said, and I can totally see how listening on audio might have made it a bit confusing. I actually read this as a physical book for a change, rather than even on my kindle, so I think that made the "flashbacks" easier to seperate.

Sadly, the last thirty pages or so didn't quite feel satisfying. I think Katrisa is right about the logic flaw of there being other "phantom settlements" on other maps so scanning the map of Agloe wouldn't work (heck, we met what - four others during the book?), and that may have added to my dissatisfaction. I was also surprised at Nell's decision, although it looks like that may well have been fixed in the last couple of pages, if I read it right.

If GR allowed half stars, I'd probably have given it a three-and-a-half, rather than a three, but I decided to round down.

I've not read Paper Towns, so that connection totally passed me by. I might have to dig it out after this.

This was a good book to read as I recover from surgery. Entertaining and easy to follow without being overly complicated. I had figured out who Wally was early on also but was pleasantly surprised by Bear. Wish. Few things had been pulled together a bit better but overall an enjoyable read for me.

I had this book on my TBR list for awhile and I was so excited to finally get a chance to read it. But it wasn't the novel I was expecting.

I fully expected an academic mystery, similar to Donna Tartt's The Secret History. I wanted to be inundated with map lovers, map terminology, truly a book about cartographers.

Instead, it was more of a soft or cozy mystery, where maps were the subject, but they were treated more fantastically. The central theme of the book, rather than being about maps, was more about the story of the main character, Nell's, family.

And it was good, don't get me wrong. But, the expectation and the reality were a little disappointing. Oh well, I still enjoyed reading it!

Readerboard Name: Rebecca NJ

I've had this book on my to-read list for quite some time. I will say that while it was interesting, it took me forever to read it. I just felt that there were points in the story where it just dragged to get to a real point. I've always been interested in maps so I did find some things very interesting. I was aware of the watermarking that some map makers did to copyright their maps.

I think I agree with a majority here - the book was good but I don't think it was all that stellar. The ending was slightly disappointing after that final build up. It was a 3 star book for me.

Nick KY

Th e Cartographers is an enjoyable enough read. As noted above, its disappointments lie in its relationships to many other ideas in other genres.

In the years before and afgter the turn of the century, a sub-genre of Gothic arose which I laughingly call "Bookstores in Barcelona." The premise of every plot in this subgenre is that a cozy bookstore in Barcelona houses a mysterious book that holds secrets of Good and Evil and the Universe, and lots of mysterious people are after it. The Cartographers is much the same, only its "Mapstores in Manhattan."

The coziness and mystery of maps is full in front here. Only on p. 80 when our heroine went to Chinatown did I get a sense of the hustle and bustle of New York. But then, immediately, we are thrust back into yet another cozy mapstore. And inevitably we use the maps to get outside of the city, just as the "Batcelona Bookstore" folks go to the countryside where mysteious groups of people with unlimited wealth gather to worship the object of mystery -- the book. In this case, it's the map.

The magical realism, the romance of mapmaking, etc., made this book appear in the "Science Fiction" section of my library.

But I love magical realism. And I love just about any subgenre of Gothic. So I loved living in the world of this book, even though it is hauntingly familiar.