Dickensians! discussion

Here is the thread for the final part of John Forster's biography The Life of Charles Dickens : Volume III.

For our discussion of Parts I and II, please LINK HERE for Part 1 and LINK HERE for Part II.

*** IMPORTANT NOTE: Please be aware that this biography does contain SPOILERS for some of Charles Dickens's novels.

If you reach these first, please tell us so that I can add specifics to this warning.

Has anyone broached part 3 yet? Or perhaps you read it straight after the other 2 parts? (The threads are linked, in case you are starting this biography, and would like to add comments there.)

Jean, I haven't started yet but plan to soon.
I found the first two volumes interesting, despite being a bit dry at times. I thought that John Forster's love for his friend really comes through and the excerpts from Dickens' letters to him showed Dickens love of people and life.

I'm looking forward to reading Volume 3.

Oh good - I'm so pleased Petra, as I remember your comments from the first two volumes :)

The book I'm reading seems to have just "lifted" so much from John Forster's biography and the letters you mention :( Basically it is the source material for so many later biographies, so I'm glad we are reading it, even though it does seem uneven at times, I agree.

Uneven or not, it's a wonderful and touching tribute to a friend and brings Dickens to life, in a way. I feel that I'm getting to know the man as a person, not only an author of wonderful books.

I hope others are joining in, both for this volume and the other two (if they haven't read them yet). They are worth the read.

It really is :) And I'm glad you're recommending it too, as some members weren't in the group for the first part.

Is anyone reading this? I realised I never finished the second part! So I've started that one again and am enjoying it :)

I'm putting this in our side reads for now, so we can read it in the new year :)

I'm planning on starting it in the New Year, Jean. I had hoped to start this year but Life.......

I'm looking forward to it.

Here it is - the final part of John Forster's biography, and the only one endorsed by Charles Dickens himself. If you've read any other biography of him, you really should read this, as it's the one they are based on. And if you haven't read any, well what are you waiting for? 😀

The whole thing is free on kindle, although if you buy it in 3 parts there is a small cost. Many of the group have read parts of this huge work, so all three parts are current right now. I'd love to hear your thoughts!

I'm just getting started, Jean. I meant to start in January but things got away from me. I'm ready to start now and am looking forward to it.

That's great Petra! I'm hoping to start this section before too long as well 😊 (Lovely to see you posting!)

I've finally started this volume.

I am enjoying the section relating to Dickens' observations of his personal acquaintances and friends, then using their characteristics and personalities to form is characters.
It was a double sided sword. He hurt some people when they recognized themselves in the characters, yet writing the character of Micawber brought him emotionally closer to his father ("The longer I live, the better man I think him")

There's a story of one of Dickens' characters that hurt someone he knew. He felt awful about this. The character was not a nice person but after finding out he hurt this person, he changed the character's personality. I feel I have heard this story before but can't place it.
"He was shocked at discovering the pain he had given......That he had intended to employ the character in an unpleasant way, but he would....change it all, so that nothing but an agreeable impression should be left......"

Petra wrote: "There's a story of one of Dickens' characters that hurt someone he knew. He felt awful about this. The character was not a nice person but after finding out he hurt this person, he changed the character's personality. I feel I have heard this story before but can't place it...."

YAY Petra! I've just reviewed the second part, so will be a bit late starting this one. It sounds as if it starts interestingly.

I think from what you say, you might mean Miss Mowcher, the dwarf hairdresser and manicurist in David Copperfield. She was based on a real person: his wife Catherine's chiropodist Mrs. Jane Seymour Hill. If you remember, Charles Dickens pokes fun at the character to start with, but then when he heard how upset she was, he changed his plans for the rest of the novel completely. (He may also have been influenced by the fact that she threatened to sue him for defamation of character!)

There's more about this in one of our David Copperfield threads: HERE is the post.

Charles Dickens took what she said to heart, and ended up giving her a positive and important role in how the story proceeds.

Could this be who John Forster is talking about? Volume 2 ends with Charles Dickens just starting David Copperfield, so the timing seems right 😊

Jean, that's it! I knew I'd heard the story somewhere. It was here!

John Forster is very careful to not mention the names of either the character or the person. However, he repeatedly made the connection between Micawber and Dickens' father.
Perhaps that is because the first incident was a negative one for Dickens, while the second incident a positive one.

It was nice to know that Dickens enjoyed his father and his character and that bringing these traits into a character endeared him even more to his father.

Petra wrote: "Perhaps that is because the first incident was a negative one for Dickens, while the second incident a positive one ..."

Yes, perhaps so. How interesting!

"Jean, that's it! I knew I'd heard the story somewhere. It was here!

Thanks so much for mentioning this. I'm glad we could nail it!

I enjoyed Chapter 1 a lot. Forster was alive and interesting; not dry at all. He seems to have had a real love for the book, David Copperfield.

This chapter covers both David Copperfield and Bleak House. Perhaps because of our wonderful group reads, this chapter was very interesting and fun to read. The characters and plot points were familiar.

It was interesting to find that the case of Gridley was a real-life case. Dickens accidently heard of the case, thought it ludicrous and wrote it into his book. About this case, Forster quotes a Mr. Challinor: "What a mockery of justice this is....the plaintiff would be glad to give up his chance of the legacy if he could escape from his liability to costs, while the defendants who own the little farm left by the testator, have scarce any other prospect before them than ruin."

It's nice to look forward to the next chapter.

Lovely, Petra! There were several actual legal cases which found their way into Bleak House (one being to do with J.M.W. Turner's legacy) and I remember discussing them in the group read. It will be so interesting to read about them as if it were at the time when they were written - thank you 😊

Life is keeping me from reading much lately but I'm still reading this and enjoying it. The tone of this final volume is lighter somehow.

I'm just reading of Dickens' first 3 summers in Boulogne. We had such a good discussion of the short story Dickens wrote of his love for this place in Our English and French Watering-Place.
Forster's telling also tells of colourful village people and interesting places to visit. His descriptions of the house Dickens rented and the landlord was warm and loving. This truly was a place where the Dickens family rested and enjoyed their time together.

That's the part I'm up to as well Petra! But I seem to have stalled, because of other reading commitments.

I can't decide if it's an advantage or a disadvantage with this book, that it's quite possible to read it in short extracts.

Jean, I find that a bonus and a big advantage. I dip into this book when I have time. And it makes no difference that I put it aside for awhile. I am pulled back in as soon as I begin reading again.

I am finding that this volume has a friendlier tone and feels warmer somehow. Forster doesn't feel as formal as in the other two volumes. I like this new Forster.

I think you're right! And I'm already referring back to the first two volumes. It's a great resource to dip into, as you say.

I really like the almost magical description of the tunnel and Swiss chalet that Dickens built on the property of Gadshill.
The chalet came from Switzerland in pieces and was rebuilt in a wooded section of land (belonging to the property) across the street from the house. He built a tunnel under the street to get to that part of the property.
In the chalet, he placed mirrors at the windows to reflect the trees, birds and light throughout the chalet. Magical!

He must have really liked the house and property. It seems to have been in horrible repair when he bought it. He put thousands of pounds into restoration and fix-ups to make it what he wanted it to be.

Totally off-topic: whenever "shrubbery" is mentioned in books, my mind goes back to Monty Python skits and movies. There were a few random mentions of "shrubbery". In The Holy Grail, the Knights of Ni demanded a shrubbery, "one that looks nice.....and not too expensive".

There is a mention of shrubbery in the description of the Gadshill property, so Monty Python came to mind.

I find this Volume to be more personal than the other two volumes. There's less about Dickens' writing and more about his life, actions and doings. I rather like that.

I had to google the chalet:

"The chalet has been preserved and was moved to Eastgate House in Rochester High Street, Rochester, as a memorial to the writer."

Jean, in your travels, have you been to Rochester and seen the chalet?
Another site to add to my "when I'm in England" list.

I have stalled with this one again! Just because I find I can leave it for while, whereas with fiction I can't then get back to it as easily. But you are making me want to pick it up again soon, thanks Petra!

Sorry Petra, I have only just noticed your question!

I went on a day trip to Rochester a few years ago and was hoping to see the Swiss chalet, but it has been moved https://www.visitmedway.org/attractio...

I'm back to enjoying this now and then, and have just finished ch 7.

A criticism modern readers make of this biography is that John Forster misses out details of the relationship between Charles Dickens and Nelly Ternan. However I think he is a careful and loyal friend, who must have been troubled as to how much to say, since he was the only person whom Charles Dickens trusted to write his life story.

For me, the abundance of "new" letters by Charles Dickens and notes about his works had been more than making up for any veiling over the affair up to now. I can't criticise John Forster's handling of the break-up between Charles Dickens and Catherine either. In this chapter he describes Charles Dickens's unhappy state of mind, his restlessness and the way he drove himself harder and harder with public good works and the burgeoning readings. We get the sense that he had to be all things to all men, and worked continuously at fever pitch.

We also see clearly that John Forster made his disapproval known to his friend. We read Charles Dickens's replies, and also read between the lines. We are told baldly that "this is all the public need to know" and I respect John Forster's position on this.

The chapter is called "What Happened at This Time". It's a remarkable achievement.

Here are some quotations from ch 7, which illustrate what I mean by reading between the lines:

"An unsettled feeling greatly in excess of what was usual with Dickens, more or less observable since his first residence at Boulogne, became at this time almost habitual, and the satisfactions which home should have supplied, and which indeed were essential requirements of his nature, he had failed to find in his home."

"To say he was not a gentleman would be as true as to say he was not a writer; but if any one should assert his occasional preference for what was even beneath his level over that which was above it, this would be difficult of disproof. It was among those defects of temperament for which his early trials and his early successes were accountable in perhaps equal measure."

He found solace in his art: "It was the world he could bend to his will, and make subserve to all his desires ...

the world he had called into being had thus far borne him safely through these perils. He had his own creations always by his side. They were living, speaking companions. With them only he was everywhere thoroughly identified. He laughed and wept with them; was as much elated by their fun as cast down by their grief; and brought to the consideration of them a belief in their reality as well as in the influences they were meant to exercise, which in every circumstance sustained him."

And this sort of frankness from Charles Dickens to his friend:

"Am altogether in a dishevelled state of mind—motes of new books in the dirty air, miseries of older growth threatening to close upon me. Why is it, that as with poor David, a sense comes always crushing on me now, when I fall into low spirits, as of one happiness I have missed in life, and one friend and companion I have never made?"

It's so very revealing as to his state of mind. We cannot get this from modern biographers who necessarily rehash what had been recorded before. This is from one unhappy man to his friend, and shared with us most sensitively.

"I am therefore decided to begin the story as of the length of the Tale Of Two Cities."

It's surprising to me, that Dickens (or anyone) would start writing a novel with the length being one of the main considerations.
I mean, if I were to write a story, would I not write until that story was told and not consider it's final length?

I find it really interesting that Dickens considered length as a high priority.

It does seem strange, doesn't it? But by now Charles Dickens had had many years of editing everyone else's work to fit into his magazines, and I expect planning installments - and writing them to the correct length - came naturally to him. On the other hand, most of them had 20 installments and A Tale of Two Cities was initially 31, despite its shorter length. So it does seem odd.

I've been enjoying the section where he bought his dream house: the one he had spied as a young boy with his father, Gad's Hill. He seems to have so many money worries, though it has not stopped him from making a lot of building alterations. A couple of times he has commented on how little time he has been able to spend there.

Charles Dickens is killing himself with the public readings. His doctors and John Forster can all see it, but the double temptation of his public and the money seem to overwhelm him.

I've really enjoyed the descriptions of his pets. It fits in well with the exhibition at Doughty Street I've just been to. And his daughter Mamie writes more about it in her memoir (which we had as a side read.)

I liked that part, too. His home sounded so right for him.

I'm reading a section now about his last readings in America. He's killing himself for money. It's sad that he was so focused on that. Understandable, perhaps, after his childhood, but sad that this was so deep a need in him.

I also chuckled at his description of the scalpers of tickets. What he describes is exactly what happens today. No one can out beat a scalper. They continue to get their way.

Oh yes! It infuriated Charles Dickens of course. He tried to be so fair to his readers and everything was a sell-out. Even the tiniest space was used ... such as the occasion where a young woman squeezed herself on to the stage and lay down holding on to a table leg the entire time, so she would not fall off!

We must be at about the same point Petra. I was intrigued by all the extra ideas John Forster noted from Charles Dickens's notebook. It is sobering to think that he did not live long enough to use them, and of course gave himself more to his readings in later years.

I'm in the second to last chapter. These last few chapters are very sad because we know we're going to lose Dickens.

Oh I'm not quite there yet. Yes, it will be 😟

I've finished. I'm glad we read this biography. It's as close as we'll ever be to knowing Charles Dickens, the man and the person. John Forster's love and admiration for his friend is written in every sentence.

I can't believe how much energy Charles Dickens was blessed with. He was always on the go, doing something.

I found a lot of this volume had a more sober and sad tone. John Forster couldn't keep the sadness he felt out of these pages. He did a marvelous job at balancing Charles Dickens privacy with the public's " need to know".
I admit to wanting to hear more of the personal details, but I respect that privacy, too.

Now on to read the appendixes.

It is an incredible account isn't it Petra? Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, and I agree with them all.

I seem to be reading some chapters again! 🙄That's the trouble with using 3 kindles, and forgetting which one it was ... but I don't mind. It's well worth it.

I read the footnotes as I went, but when I finish I still have my illustrated copy of it all to look through and enjoy 😊

LOL! It would still be interesting, even when reading it for the second time. There's so much information here that one would pick up more with each reading.

I've read his Will now. It's interesting in that he has seperate inheritances for his married children and his unmarried daughter. That seemed strange to me and I wondered if that was normal in Dickens' time.

I don't know either - but it would be typical of Dickens to make his own rules, wouldn't it? Who else would ever stipulate no pomp and ceremony and no statues? 🙄

After this biography, I can see Dickens not wanting fanfare and recognition. As he said, he is to be remembered by his works or not at all (paraphrasing his actual words).

I think the hardest part (for me) about Dickens' life was his absolute focus that none of his family feel the hardship and want/need that he felt as a child. He overworked himself just so that he was ensured that his family would never want. This was a stress and worry that I wish he hadn't lived under.

Of course, without his childhood, he may have turned out a different person with different thoughts and we wouldn't have his wonderful works to read today. \

It was the double edged sword in his life.

I think Dickens would have been a wonderful person to know, especially if he befriended one. He seemed a man who enjoyed life, good times and enjoyed the people around him.

What a lovely tribute, Petra.

I marvel at John Forster's biography - and also marvel at the sacrifice he made in order to write it - as indeed he had for his whole life since they met. John Forster was himself an historian with a good career, but he always seemed to put that of Charles Dickens first.

You're absolutely right I think that "without his childhood, he may have turned out a different person with different thoughts and we wouldn't have his wonderful works to read today." But also, if he had not such a wise friend and mentor to guide him with a restraining hand to quell his excesses, we probably would not have them either!

Bravo John Forster!

Agreed! Bravo John Forster, the man who loved Dickens for the man & friend that he was.