The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

Seven Steeples by Sara Baume (Tramp Press)

Good to see this here. Although I still stand by my controversial interpretation of the ending

I absolutely loved this one, I had various theories about the ending but didn't mind the ambiguities.

What did you think of Paul’s theory Alwynne (Paul thinks it’s not even a theory but definitely what the book is about)

I loved this too by the way

And it also maintains another Goldsmith tradition - a book by a previously shortlisted author (happens more here than with other prizes)

It is definitely what the book is about. Just the author doesn’t realise.

Aren't all books about things that the author didn't realise?

I also really liked this one.

I have high expectations for this one, as A Line Made by Walking made a huge impression on me back when it was shortlisted, and the novel still stays with me.

I liked this book but do not agree with Paul about the ending.

Nobody agrees with Paul about the ending. But that doesn’t mean he is wrong!

It makes me smile every time I see it that Paul is so convinced about his theory that he has -I think for the first time ever - put a spoiler alert on his review.

It is obvious once you see it. It is fascinating how it was subliminal on the author’s behalf though.

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "What did you think of Paul’s theory Alwynne (Paul thinks it’s not even a theory but definitely what the book is about)"

I thought it was delightfully creative!

Is 'delightfully creative' in your thesaurus under the heading 'self-evident' :-)

I loved this one too and it has really stayed with me.

Too much nature description but its politics agree with me - sending off cishet couples as far away as possible to leave as little trace as possible.

You thought they were cishet and a couple? Interesting. Not how I read it.

endrju wrote: "Too much nature description but its politics agree with me - sending off cishet couples as far away as possible to leave as little trace as possible."

You must enjoy living in the world!

I loved this book. I find myself still thinking about it. I am waiting to write a review until it lingers in my mind for a while.

Emily wrote: "You must enjoy living in the world!"

Of course I don't. Queer pessimism ftw!

endrju wrote: "Emily wrote: "You must enjoy living in the world!"

Of course I don't. Queer pessimism ftw!"

Although at least these are non-breeder cishets! Or... whatever Paul thinks they are.

Paul wrote: "You thought they were cishet and a couple? Interesting. Not how I read it."

I just saw your review. I'm not sure the novel lends itself to that particular reading as far as I can remember various details, but I'll have to check the beginning and see for myself.

I disagree about the nature writing. My favorite character was the mountain.

I loved the nature writing too. And the degradation of the house into filthy nature aspect.

Emily wrote: "Although at least these are non-breeder cishets!"

Yeah, the novel would be the Bram Stoker Award nominee otherwise.

In all seriousness, I liked the book because I thought it showed the disintegration of a cishet-centered world, using these people (I forget their names) as a microcosm for that disintegration.

Sigh and Bel they are called. I liked the novel for that too, but the writing got bogged down in description of the same narrow patch of "nature" and I found myself getting tired of it quickly and skipping it, only occasionally making a connection. The style put me off - I like more flare, density - while politics are perfect.

I like flare too, but something about the writing here arrested me.

Has been shortlisted for the An Post Irish Book Awards Novel of the Year this evening.

Up against 5 other books including The Colony

Also The Raptures by Jan Carson, Marriage Portrait by Maggie O’ Farrell, The Queen of Dirt Island by Donal Ryan, and Trespasses by Louise Kennedy - big hitting list.

That's a great shortlist.

Team Baume!

Never got to The Raptures but I want to.

I thought the raptures was a lot of fun to read

I forgot there was a new Donal Ryan. I forgot I haven’t yet read Jan Carson’s The Fire Starters!

I was not a fan of the Ryan but I did not like Strange Flowers. This effectively is a sequel to that (or that is how it ends up - it starts as a different book with an enjoyable group of characters but then the Strange Flower follow up hijacks the narrative thread)

Alas Paul’s theory is wrong (as are many others like one of Bell and Sigh dying) but the author did think it was very imaginative

So it turns out this isn’t about a transgender character after all - or at least that is not what the author intended but she had to admit it was a good fit.

Incidentally I think the most common interpretations of what happens in the last chapter (a separation, a death) are wrong as well though in terms of her intention.

Ie they actually do become one person (which ummm sounds a bit like what I said, but meant differently).

So it's also not intentionally about late stage cishet decadence and ultimate decline?

No.

So it's actually about what it says it's about! Good to know in the post-truth era!

She mentioned it was the second time people have said one of her novels has an ambiguous ending when she intended it to be clear. Paul did you pick up which other book she was referring to?

Worth stressing she did like Paul’s ending and the way it inadvertently matched the way the pronouns evolve but of course it’s very much based at some core on her, her boyfriend and their two dogs

She was also I think (this was more in the group chat) a little surprised that people have missed some of importance of religion (the mountain being god - I think small g is probably appropriate) and the search for ritual and routine in a largely post religious world (she is very much an ex Catholic) … in fact that was mar largely how she introduced her book

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "She mentioned it was the second time people have said one of her novels has an ambiguous ending when she intended it to be clear. Paul did you pick up which other book she was referring to"

I nodded along to that as of course we discussed the fact that the ending wasn't at all unexpected with her at a Goldsmiths event since it was revealed on the back cover.

And now I've realised I was thinking of Solar Bones !!!

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "She mentioned it was the second time people have said one of her novels has an ambiguous ending when she intended it to be clear. Paul did you pick up which other book she was referring to?"

I checked with her and she said there is a reviewer who pretends to be a dog. And his review of her first novel concludes:

As the book concludes, Ray decides to return to his home, drawn by what he sees as unfinished business there, and the book itself ends ambiguously.

So perhaps ask him?

The famous dog reviewer - like Maddie M I hope one day to meet him.

Baume would like to as well as he keeps claiming her books have ambiguous endings.

I just finished the book. First, Paul, you’re one of my favorite people, but you are dead wrong. Transexual people do not have multiple personalities and refer to themselves as he and she.

I thought this book was about a total withdrawal from society and an attempt to live as nature, not in nature fighting natural processes of decay. Sigh and Bell are like Gollum: they forgot the smell of clean clothes and the sight of a clean house, they lost their aversion to mold and oily dirt. I was increasingly uncomfortable with how filthy their house became. The reason people in town avoided them was clearly because they smelled. I have been around a lot of homeless, unwashed people and it’s a smell that does not leave when they leave and it doesn’t leave when you leave the area, it settles in the membrane of your nose and remains for hours. Bell and Sigh smelled like damp, mildew and musty dog and had rotten teeth breath. They were so isolated and in their own world they didn’t notice or care.

I thought it was interesting when Baum wrote that they got cheap, broken things thinking they wouldn’t miss them when they lost them for good, but instead those things became precious to them.

I loved this book. I wondered while I was reading it how I would explain it in a way that makes it sound worth reading!

I was very glad the old dogs didn’t die in the years we were with this odd, reclusive couple.

I read the ending as they looked back and realized that they had become like one person. We already knew they had one plate, one shared box of socks and one pile of clothes, they had developed their own way of communicating, so I don’t know why the ending seemed profound, but it did.

I need to sit with it for a bit.

Yes the pronouns don't really work - but I don't think you can blame Baume too much for that given she didn't really know what the book was about.

Baume was keen to emphasise that while the book is based on her own experiences in some senses (moving to a remote location with her partner, the walks with her dogs etc) her own house is not that squalid.

I figured she just wondered what would happen if two people completely isolated themselves and reverted to a state of nature. She seemed to determine that it would be icky. Sigh and Bell lived with bugs and mice in their house knowing winter would kill them off. The descriptions of all the flies in their bedroom, the mold and bug in their shared glass of water that Bell drank from and the reddish scum on dogs bowls is disgusting.

I do wonder how they got money for 8 years. Here unemployment compensation, which one can only get if they lost a job through no fault of their own, runs out and recipients have to be actively applying for jobs in order to continue to receive compensation. “Welfare” properly called TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families,) is limited to households with minor children, the adults have to be involved in a work activity 32 hours a week, and they can only get cash for 36 months. Who was giving Bell and Sigh money?

I wondered why the landlord didn’t care that the house was falling to ruin and the tenants were letting it.

I’m with you Paul. I have no desire to live in the country and be engaged in a constant battle with dirt and decay, although no matter where one lives it’s a daily battle against dirt and erosion. Especially if there’s a 101 pound dog in the house.

My first thought, Wendy, when I read it earlier this year was how in the world they were able to live without income.

Social security is very different in Ireland to the US.