Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

I have been writing in journals since I was 16 years old. Some pretty heavy stuff. I struggled with a lot of mental health disorders and writing is really my only outlet it seems. I have always been really good with spelling and grammar. I did very well in english. People have read through my journals and said I am a brilliant writer. They say I need to do something about it and write a book. Well, I am 29 years old and have debated it for years. NOW I finally have the story to tell. Here is my big dilemma. My journals come out well written, as they are in the first person. Ive never really written any other way. I did look into the option of a more novel like route. But that would be third person and will include a ton of dialogue. Not to mention adding in a lot of characters. I kind of like the flow ive just had going with the first person writing. But let's say I ever decided to publish it. Im assuming they dont look at that sort of writing?

I HIGHLY inspired by how Hardin Scott wrote his version of "After". The After franchise changed my life forever. Thats a long story. But because of it, I finally figured out my life. Bevause of two fictional characters. I wont get into all that. I am just talking about how its funny he ended up doing the same thing ive been trying to do for years. I actually am not certain if my book would be considered a memoir as opposed to a romance novel. Seeing as to how im trying to avoid all the dialogue

This is my frank opinion on your dilemma, Heather: trying to avoid dialogues and being unwilling to add characters to your story would basically kill your book with readers. Unless it is strictly a biographical story, a novel IS basically dialogues and interactions between multiple characters. Also, novels are in the great majority written in the third person, while first person stories are comparatively rare and often not very popular. So, before spending lots of time and money in writing and publishing a book, consider carefully if it would be worth the effort to do it your way. I am sorry if this will discourage you but I didn't want to give you false hopes.

No no, Michael. I appreciate you kindly telling me. So in order to write my story, assuming I'm not changing my name in the story, I would refer to myself as Heather. Rather than using the word I?. Its going to take some getting used to. An example: Heather met Harvey when she least expected it. Rather than: I met Harvey when I least expected it.

Okay. Im just going to have to work on using dialogue.

I wrote some of my books in the first person and some in the third person. I find it easier to write in the first person but developing other characters is obviously more difficult. Still sometimes I write simply because the story wants to be told. In my newest, unfinished work, I flip-flop between fist and third person depending if the main character is leading or following the story. I like it.

That I have not yet taught myself how to do properly

Were any of your books published?

write in whatever POV that makes you feel comfortable. Plenty of books are written in First person. However, you will need dialogue if you are writing a novel.

many authors alternate characters in chapters, and this works in first person too. Chapter one from A's perspective. Chapter two from B. Both use 'I'.
if you make it a romance novel, it's usually expected that the story is told from both characters' POV.

I write third person past, with occasional thoughts in first person.

Is there such thing as too long of a chapter?

I see what you are saying. So I don't have to use the third person. But for the most part it's a romance novel. So I would alternate characters between chapters. Yet I could still use "I". Remaining in 1st person. Obviously yes I will require dialogue

I should mention this is me telling my actual story. It's not fiction or anything

Hi Heather, then you are not writing a novel, you are writing a memoir or an autobiography.
I have no experience with either reading or writing those. Your best bet is to look at other similar works and see how others approach the issue. Research is the key.

A few thoughts, Heather (feel free to ignore).

The Martian, by Andy Weir, and the Hunger Games, by Suzanne Collins, are both bestseller examples, and indeed subsequently films, written in the 1st person. As incidently was Sherlock Holmes, by Arthur Conan Doyle.

The majority of books are written in 3rd, but there are several different types generalised as 3rd person. Ultimately the author will decide which POV works best for them in recounting their tale. You could, for instance, consider a diary format, like Mr Weir for his main protagonist.

Chapters can be any length. The Thursday Murder Club, by Richard Osman, had well over a hundred, when first published (it no longer lists them). :) Usually they span an incident or two, a meeting, a particular event or interaction. In a diary format you might have hundreds or only a few. Time jumps both backward and forward are also possible, childhood reminisces. Honestly, nothing is out of bounds. Usually I work to about 4-5, A4 pages. Some stretch longer, to twice that, but the thinking relates to commuter journeys and a sense of accomplishment. Letting the reader easily reach a set point.

Regarding Autobiographies, Memoirs, honestly the market is rather dominated/flooded by Celebrities and Politicians. Personal accounts, regardless of the evil tragedies and huge obstacles overcome, might be a rewarding read, though rarely a commercial successful. :(

Regarding creating characters and dialogue. Location, location, location. Every day you meet people when out and about. I don't recommend detailing friend and family, unless they are agreeable, but people fall into various types/categories. Therefore, everyone appearing in the book, at each point/chapter/paragraph, from the humble waiter in a restaurant, to the best friend, will and should be present, invaluable. They all possess traits, foibles and motivations. They wear a top hat, a ribbon or a bow, favour red or yellow, all these are distinctions, which help create a metal picture. Consequently, the dialogue/interactions with these, at times and places, and the protagonist are what hold the interest. They don't all need extensive backstories and personal motivations, but it can help to enrich the text. So how they speak, words they choose, redefines the image. Some swear, some don't, talk about the weather incessantly, moan about their aching hip or a cheating spouse.

My first three books were in 3rd POV, for a single character. My latest fantasy, not yet published, has five in the first book alone. Which might well grow to ten or more, by the end of the trilogy. But each of these five meet many, many more. Some get names, if there is a point, while others are just described by who or what they are.

Rules are there to be broken, so don't get bogged down by others proscriptions. Getting it written out is the most vital part. And if it is self-published, later it can easily be updated and revised. :)

Heather.,

Most local public libraries dedicate entire sections to books, periodicals, websites, options, and articles providing bacic rules, advice, and suggestions pertaining to technical writing, narration, and various styles, supplied by well-known, commercially successful authors, publishers, copy edtors, conceptual editors, and layout design artists that allow novice authors to learn and determine for themselves the opportunities, writing styles and path-forward best suited to them personally. I urge you to visit those providers either physically or via the many well-established, literary websites.

Very few novice authors ever achieve commercial success or even notoriety within this extremely competitive field. That said; some have. There is no reason why you might not eventually become one of them. I wish you success.

@ C.C. Cortland

So even if this is my real life story...obviously people have no idea who I am. So I am nobody important . Therefore, a memoir or autobiography probably isn't the way to go.

Sure, I can definitely turn this into a novel. It involves a lit of traumatic events. Just real stuff. Addiction. People growing up with a bad past. Unconditional love. Some even say toxic love. But anyway, I do write best in first person. But I am certain I could write in third person. I mean I can alternate characters each chapter . It is a romance mainly. It's just real events. Of course like I said, now the dialogue comes into play and I will have to be creative as far as details around me. I would be interested in hearing about this diary format though.

You are saying I can technically publish my book online and change things if people did show interest in it?

Heather wrote: "@ C.C. Cortland

So even if this is my real life story...obviously people have no idea who I am. So I am nobody important . Therefore, a memoir or autobiography probably isn't the way to go.

Sure,..."

Hi Heather,

True, most people will be unfamiliar with your personal circumstances, but friends and family may. This is why I say, unless they are onboard, it could create additional problems. Everyone is important to someone. :)

There is no hard and fast requirement, that this must be a memoir or autobiography, you want to write. A true and unbiased account of your life so far or just what you are prepared to share. However, it is up to you to decide if this is the best way forward. Just as easily you could write about a fictionalised account of a life, your own or a fabricated character(s). The names have been changed to protect the 'guilty', so to speak :) Realise someone might take offense and request a takedown, or heaven forbid, legal action, if they felt they were being portrayed in an unflattering light.

Now, whether it is in 1st or 3rd person, is a separate decision. And largely depends upon how best to get across the intent.

As to self-publishing. You can update, amend or even entirely re-write the effort. I have redone, modified my own more than once. (spotting the odd glaring mistake, misspelling or bad word choices.) Whether in print or ebook. Although I won't comment on Audibles, since I have no experience. Obviously with a 'real' publisher there is a greater reluctance and added costs involved.

Creating and publishing a Kindle, currently cost nothing. (Kindle Create, available as a download from Amazon). It accepts epub, Word docx and Pdfs. Though I would always recommend using the docx format, but Libra Office which I use, can accomodate this. And this can then be used to generate an ebook, paperback or even a hardback. Some sites do charge and offer different, even additional services, such as proof-reading, editing and layouts. Amazon do charge for their author print copies, @ print costs, but otherwise it is identical to the finished product/offer.

@ C.C. Cortland

So you certainly recommend typing it out and saving it in what format?

When it does come time for me to publish this story (yes, some names will be changed). Not all. But will you help me get it going through Amazon? I believe that's what you said. Do you have their approx fees?

I should add, in all fairness, some do consider Amazon a monster, wielding far too much industry power. They own this site after all. However, they are 70% of the market. Though there are plenty of alternatives regarding the self-published with an even wider distribution network. Apple, Google, Kobi, etc... And you could offer your novel for free, as Michel does.

Always there are choices, but also compromises. :)

I have to learn about what options I have available

HI Heather,

Amazon will accept, either 'epub', 'docx' (Microsoft Word format) or 'pdf', directly. Pdfs are a proprietory Adobe format and usually cannot reflow to adjust to the size of screen ( an eReader problem). Epub are better, but can create their own layout problems regarding text alignment and graphics. And both can create additional headaches with printing.

I use 'Libra Office' for writing, and export the manuscript as a docx. Then import into 'Kindle Create' to adjust the layout, prior to the site upload ( kpf format) adding in front and back matter. With a combination of 'Blender', 'Gimp' or 'Krita' for the artwork (jpeg). I utilize Google (free for commercial use) fonts for any embedded text and graphics. And all the software I have so far mentioned is available for free. This keeps it all on the right side of the copyright line. I also use 'Kindle Previewer' to check the final deliverable output.

I will not suggest the process is entirely simple nor quick and can take several attempts to get it right. Avoid coloured graphic in the interior as this affects the print cost. As a guide, my 400 page novels are about $5.00 for printing for their on-demand service.

There are free templates available for Microsoft Office/Word, but it, itself, is not free software. But you can choose to write in anything you like, in fact. Google, notepad, whatever. There are several applications available to create and work with epubs. Though often that requires an understanding of Html. And if it can be shoehorned into one of the above formats, directly uploaded.

Amazon will then check the upload to see if there are any problems. Publication can be withheld if it breaches their guidelines. Usual banned stuff like pornography, abuse or hateful speech. They will also cheerfully outline any glaring spelling mistakes. :) Watch out also for any copyright/trademark infringements.

As I mentioned, Amazon do not charge for creating a book, be it an ebook, paperback or hardback. They will require first you create an account and that does require a bank account, and a tax declaration. So the only costs you are likely to incur is if you require Author Copies. :)

C.C. wrote: "A few thoughts, Heather (feel free to ignore).

The Martian, by Andy Weir, and the Hunger Games, by Suzanne Collins, are both bestseller examples, and indeed subsequently films, written in the 1st..."

I just would like to add that the Sherlock Holmes and Nero Wolfe mysteries are written in first person observer, where the narrator is not at all the main character, so there's more third person going on. But the engaging narrators do add to the reader interest.

That might be a possible point of view option for you, Heather, if you don't want the books to sound just like a diary but more like the reader is seeing others and events through your eyes. It takes the pressure off your having to appeal only to readers who immediately relate to you rather than pulling them in through the story. This would demand characters, action and dialogue.

I'm going to give you two bits of advice that might go against the grain, but you can give it a try.

1. Stop overthinking it. Just write however it flows from you. Rewrites, revisions, and edits are where you can tighten it up. For now, just get the story out of you any way you can. Puke out the words. You can fine tune then in future drafts.

2. If you eventually decide to self publish, go through Draft2Digital. It's the easiest path and pushes out through all distributors.

Best of luck to you!

@Sherri,

I have never indicated Amazon is the sole path to publication, self or otherwise. And no axe to grind regarding any final choice. However, Amazon returns are 35% for ebooks at the lower sales point (below $2.99) and 70% at the higher ($2.99 - $9.99). Paperbacks are set @ 60%. Expanded distibution also comes into play in the UK and US for paper and hardbacks, if enabled. In addition to which, Draft2Digtal will claw back another 10% off the potential profit, at the set user retail price.

Either route, offers a better return than from a convention publisher (not vanity press). Although, if picked up, the sales figures would likely be in a different league. I have though no idea what the other internet portal players charge. There are no free lunches.

The bonus, however, is they do have proper deals in place with Apple iStore and others, regarding purchase and distribution. Amazon can only do this through their web interface. That said, you are automatically thereby excluded from Kindle Unlimited, as this requires exclusivity. Which has, for me, been a valuable secondary income stream.

I know a friend Nick who uses D2D, available on Amazon, but it is not a choice for me. And no idea what the print quality is like.

All that said, your first point is perfectly correct. :) Write it, edit it and then wonder how its going to be offered.

Heather here is my opinion, for what it's worth - sounds like you have all the ingredients for a non fiction/memoir already in your journals. You just need to decide which bits to take out, reorder and rewrite into a book. A great editor can help you with this.
Then, once you've published your first book, you can then decide on whether you think there is a novel in it. Which will be a much bigger task IMO. Either way, good luck!

@Tim Robert's

Can you please explain more in detail what exactly a non fiction/memoir would be? I mean obviously I understand the basics. But I thought you would have to be someone important. Do memoirs get published? Or you are saying I should write it as a memoir (just as I have been Journaling in first person)....then possibly look into finding an editor to help me turn it into a novel?

Hi Heather, it is perfectly possible, and very successful to write a novel in the first person. Examples that spring to mind (here's an old one - classic thriller): The Thirty-Nine Steps by John Buchan. Slightly younger (fantasy): The Crystal Gryphon by Andre Norton. First person plural example (science fiction): Man Plus by Frederick Pohl - the only example I know of this "person". There are many other examples. Good luck!

Hi Heather,

I won't repeat what everyone else here has said but I will encourage you to write the story as you think it should be told, either as a memoir or by fictionalizing it, either first or third person, etc. There are many approaches, and they are all valid. You might find that by challenging yourself (e.g., doing that fictional account with dialogue and everything) you'll grow as a writer. But again, the approach is entirely up to you.

Regardless of which way you go, you might want to look at this article on legal issues involved in writing a memoir: https://self-publishingschool.com/mem.... I found it to be a good summary, although I'm no lawyer and I've never even considered writing a memoir.

One last thing. As Sherri indicated, just get it down and fix it up in revision. I know you're thinking a lot about the publication process, too, but don't rush to publication. A lot of us made that mistake early in our writing careers and later regretted it. The best thing is to write and revise and revise and revise so you have something really good before you worry about publication. Publication, in this electronic age, is actually very easy. Writing something publishable remains as hard as ever.

Heather wrote: "I have been writing in journals since I was 16 years old. Some pretty heavy stuff. I struggled with a lot of mental health disorders and writing is really my only outlet it seems. I have always bee..."

There are lots of excellent novels in first person. Heck, one of the first novels published in English was in first person. (Robinson Crusoe). Moby Dick is written in first person. Catcher in the Rye, which I hate with the intensity of a thousand burning suns is also in first person. If you're more comfortable writing in first person, you should do that.

Just don't try to write a novel in second person. I think that would be tricky.