The Challenge Factory discussion

Welcome to the November Group Read - Classics Edition! We are tackling Moby Dick to kick things off. This will be a two-month effort due to the length of the novel.
Herman Melville wrote the novel over the years 1850-1851. It was first published in England on October 18, 1851 in three volumes under the name The Whale. In November of the same year it was published as a single volume in America under the name Moby-Dick, or, The Whale.
Moby Dick is notorious as a novel many start but few finish. All the more reason to join in this group effort to help motivate you! We highly recommend having a computer or smartphone handy, as you will likely want to look up various words and phrases as you read along.

Cool Map of the Journey
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/serv...

Jigsaw Puzzle
https://www.jigsawplanet.com/?rc=play...

Reading Schedule

Note: Please use spoilers if you write comments ahead of the posted schedule. Creating a spoiler


Week 1: Chapters 1-13 (short week ends Sunday, November 6th)
Week 2: Chapters 14-28
Week 3: Chapters 29-41
Week 4: Chapters 42-53 (this is Thanksgiving week)
Week 5: Chapters 54-70
Week 6: Chapters 71-85
Week 7: Chapters 86-100
Week 8: Chapters 101-119
Week 9: Chapters 120-135 and Epilogue

Weekly Questions

Week 1
1. "Call me Ishmael."
How does this opening by the narrator impact you? Any thoughts on the narrator?

2. (Chapter 1) Ishmael speaks of mankind's wanderlust when he says, "If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me."
Do you think this sentiment still holds true in our Internet age?

3. (Chapter 1) Ishmael speaks of the story of Narcissus - who drowned in a fountain looking at his own image - saying "But that same image, we ourselves see in all rivers and oceans. It is the image of the ungraspable phantom of life; and this is the key to it all."
What do you think he means by the ungraspable phantom?

4. (Chapter 1) Ishmael says he knows he'll be ordered about on a whaling ship: "Well, then, however the old sea-captains may . . . thump and punch me about, I have the satisfaction of knowing that it is all right; that everybody else is in one way or other served in much the same way--either in a physical or metaphysical point of view. . . and so the universal thump is passed round, and all hands should rub each other's shoulder-blades, and be content."
Do you agree that we are all subject to receiving "the universal thump" of life? Is Ishmael fatalistic about this?

5. (Chapters 3 and 10) When Ishmael first encounters Queequeg in he says "ignorance is the parent of fear" as he tries to overcome his initial reactions of fright and revulsion. But just a day later he declares "You can not hide the soul" as he considers Queequeg, and by the end of that chapter the two are bosom buddies.
What does Ishmael's fairly quick change in thoughts on Queequeg tell you about him?

6. (Chapter 7) Ishmael says, "Methinks we have hugely mistaken this matter of Life and Death. Methinks that what they call my shadow here on earth is my true substance."
If Ishmael really believes his true substance is his spirit, why do you think he went to church before embarking on a whaling ship?

7. (Chapter 9) In his sermon on Jonah, Father Mapple says "in this world, shipmates, sin that pays its way can travel freely, and without a passport; whereas Virtue, if a pauper, is stopped at all frontiers."
Do you agree with Father Mapple about sin and Virtue?


Week 2
(view spoiler)[
1. (Chapter 14) Ishmael's description of Nantucket contains some delightful hyperbole: "they have to plant weeds there, they don't grow naturally; . . . that pieces of wood in Nantucket are carried about like bits of the true cross in Rome; that people there plant toadstools before their houses, to get under the shade in summer time; that one blade of grass makes an oasis, three blades in a day's walk a prairie. . .". Does Ishmael's description of Nantucket make you less likely to believe the rest of his story?

2. (Chapter 16) Queequeg insists that Ishmael go alone to select their ship despite his utter lack of knowledge about whalers. Ishmael states he was "obliged to acquiesce" in this directive and sets off on his own. Do you think Ishmael is foolish to proceed on this mission to select their ship on his own?

3. (Chapter 16) Ishmael is poetic in his description of great sea captains: "Nor will it at all detract from him. . . if . . . he have what seems a half wilful over-ruling morbidness at the bottom of his nature. For all men tragically great are made so through a certain morbidness. Be sure of this, O young ambition, all mortal greatness is but disease." Do you agree?

4. (Chapter 17) Ishmael first professes religious tolerance ("we good Presbyterian Christians should be charitable in these things, and not fancy ourselves so vastly superior to other mortals, pagans and what not") -- but then systematically discounts Queequeg's day of fasting and meditation, telling Queequeg that it pained him "to see him now so deplorably foolish about this ridiculous Ramadan of his. . .and all thoughts born of a fast must necessarily be half-starved."Why do you think Ishmael contradicts himself this way?

6. (Chapter 20) As the Pequod is being outfitted for its long voyage, Ishmael continues to ask after the mysterious Captain Ahab. Although he really doesn't want to ship with an unknown captain he says, "But when a man suspects any wrong, it sometimes happens that if he be already involved in the matter, he insensibly strives to cover up his suspicions even from himself. And much this way it was with me. I said nothing, and tried to think nothing." Why do you think Ishmael fights his own natural instinct this way?

7. (Chapter 23) Bulkington is a minor character whose death at sea is foretold: "Know ye, now, Bulkington? Glimpses do ye seem to see of that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea?" Do you agree that it is better to "perish in the howling infinite" than to crash on the treacherous shore? What is the shore exactly?

8. (Chapter 26) Chief Mate Starbuck is practical: "he thought, perhaps, that in this business of whaling, courage was one of the great staple outfits of the ship, like her beef and her bread, not to be foolishly wasted." Does this description of Starbuck suggest problems ahead?

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Week 3
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1. (Chapter 29) Ahab finally makes his appearance and is wont to prowl the decks at night. The narrator notes: "Old age is always wakeful; as if, the longer linked with life, the less man has to do with aught that looks like death." Do you think this is true?

2. (Chapter 29) Ahab's first words of the novel are his muttering about going below deck: "It feels like going down into one's tomb. . .for an old captain like me to be descending this narrow scuttle, to go to my grave-dug berth." How do you think Ahab's mood might impact the voyage?

3. (Chapter 29) When Stubb asks Ahab to put something on his ivory leg to dampen the sound of it stomping on the decks at night Ahab rips into him, ultimately saying "Down, dog, and kennel!" Stubb is brave and protests at being called a dog, whereupon Ahab doubles down on his abuse. Stubb is torn between wanting to strike Ahab or to pray for him: "Coming afoul of that old man has a sort of turned me wrong side out." Do you think Stubb will stand up to Ahab again as his monomaniacal drive to catch Moby Dick grows?

4. (Chapter 30) Captain Ahab throws his pipe overboard, saying "How now, this smoking no longer soothes. Oh, my pipe! hard must it go with me if thy charm be gone!" When Ahab discarded his beloved pipe was that tantamount to discarding his care for living?

5. (Chapter 32) Ishmael provides quite a discourse on the various kinds of whales. He claims: "But it is a ponderous task; no ordinary letter-sorter in the Post-office is equal to it" and then goes on to give his definition of a whale: "To be short, then, a whale is a spouting fish with a horizontal tail. There you have him. However contracted, that definition is the result of expanded meditation." Ishmael comes down on the side of whales being fish and not mammals, but other than that do you think his definition is pretty good?

6. (Chapters 33 and 34) Ishmael speaks of the distinctions between an officer (including the harpooneer) and the man at sea, giving detail of the way the officers go in order to get their meals. Do you think the peculiar schedule of mealtimes is necessary to maintain discipline on the ship? Why do you think the harpooneers are more free in their comradery during mealtimes than the other officers?

7. (Chapter 36) Ahab paces in agitation and Stubb says to Flask, "D'ye mark him, Flask? The chick that's in him pecks the shell. Twill soon be out." Shortly thereafter Ahab calls all hands to the aft portion of the ship, where he announces that their mission is to catch the white whale, offering a reward to any man who sights it and then proceeds to enact a little ceremony to bind his men to the mission.Why do you think Starbuck ultimately acquiesces in this change in mission when he is so disturbed by it?

8. (Chapter 39) Stubb chuckles as he reflects on the exchange between Ahab and Starbuck: "because a laugh's the wisest, easiest answer to all that's queer; and come what will, one comfort's always left--that unfailing comfort is, it's all predestined." Do you think it's easier to face a difficult situation if you believe everything is predestined?
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Weekly Questions

Week 4
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1. (Chapter 42) Ishmael is appalled by the whiteness of Moby Dick and goes on at considerable length about the meaning of white: ". . . there yet lurks an elusive something in the innermost idea of this hue, which strikes more of a panic to the soul than that redness which affrights in blood. This elusive quality it is, which causes the thought of whiteness, when divorced from more kindly associations, and coupled with any object terrible in itself, to heighten that terror to the furthest bounds." Do you agree that white can be terrible? Where have you experienced white as something other than good?

2. (Chapter 44) As Captain Ahab charts the probable course of Moby Dick he becomes ever more consumed with his passionate hatred: "Ah, God! what trances of torments does that man endure who is consumed with one unachieved revengeful desire." What could soothe anyone so afflicted with hatred? Do you think revenge actually helps?

3. (Chapter 45) Ishmael goes to great lengths to convince the reader of the veracity of stories of whales harpooned and killed years later, of countless unreported deaths at sea by whale. "So ignorant are most landsmen of some of the plainest and most palpable wonders of the world, that without some hints touching the plain facts, historical and otherwise, of the fishery, they might scout at Moby Dick as a monstrous fable, or still worse and more detestable, a hideous and intolerable allegory." Given that the stories related by Ishmael are in fact true, do you think Ishmael is poking fun here by suggesting the whole novel could be mistakenly interpreted?

4. (Chapter 46) Although the ship's men have sworn to hunt Moby Dick, Captain Ahab still worries that he has to keep them occupied in the long weeks and months that may take: "the full terror of the voyage must be kept withdrawn into the obscure background (for few men's courage is proof against protracted meditation unrelieved by action)" Do you think meditating on a long and/or difficult task makes it harder to do? Is Captain Ahab worried about mutiny?

5. (Chapter 47) Mat-making onboard is described: "The straight warp of necessity, not to be swerved from its ultimate course--its ever alternating vibration, indeed, only tending to that; free will still free to ply her shuttle between given threads; and chance, though restrained in its play within the right lines of necessity, and sideways in its motions modified by free will, though thus prescribed to by both, chance by turns rules either, and has the last featuring blow at events." Why do you think Ishmael assigns the role of chance to Queequeg's sword as they make the mat together - why not to his own work with the shuttle?

6. (Chapter 50) The narrator notes that ships' crews are picked up all around the world, and "Beelzebub himself might climb up the side and step down into the cabin to chat with the captain, and it would not create any unsubduable excitement in the forecastle." He also states that Captain Ahab's stowaway Fedallah "remained a muffled mystery to the last." Is Fedallah the devil? Does he have control over Captain Ahab?

7. (Chapter 52) The Pequod encounters the Albatross returning from its years' long mission, but is unable to "gam" with them. The captain and crew of the Albatross are much the worse for wear and the portents are not good: "But in pursuit of those far mysteries we dream of, or in tormented chase of that demon phantom that, some time or other, swims before all human hearts; while chasing such over this round globe, they either lead us on in barren mazes or midway leave us whelmed." Do you think all human hearts are plagued by demon phantoms at some time or another?
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Week 5
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1. (Chapter 54) The story of the badly leaking Town Ho whaler is related by a small group of its seamen to Tashtego. The tale resulted in a conflict between two of the ship’s crew that led to one (Steelkilt) deciding to kill the other (Radney). But Radney was instead killed when he fell from a whaling boat and was taken down under the sea by Moby Dick. The remaining crew abandoned the captain when they made port. Tashtego was sworn to secrecy but the tale leaked to the ships’ foremastmen. Why do you think the tale was held in strict secrecy by this group, and not related to the captain or his mates?

2. (Chapters 55 to 57) The narrator provides a very thorough catalog of whales as they have been depicted throughout history, and complains of the very poor quality: “I do not wish to seem inelegant, but this unsightly whale looks much like an amputated sow” and “In a word, Frederick Cuvier’s Sperm Whale is not a Sperm Whale, but a squash.” Who do you think the narrator is at this point? Where does his passion for whales come from?

3. (Chapter 57) The narrator speaks of “savages” and their skills, listing various groups… but then ends the list with a reference to “that fine old Dutch savage, Albert Durer.” According to Wikipedia, Albert Durer was a German painter, printmaker, and theorist of the German Renaissance known for his high-quality woodcut prints. Is the narrator saying that all men are savages? Or is he saying that the term savage is a meaningless designation?

4. (Chapter 58) The narrator describes the sea as “a fiend to its own offspring. . . No mercy, no power but its own controls it. . . Consider the universal cannibalism of the sea; all whose creatures prey upon each other, carrying on eternal war since the world began.” He then contrasts this with the “green, gentle, and most docile earth” and suggests there is an analogy to the make-up of man. That man has a peaceful isle in his soul surrounded by “the horrors of the half known life.” Do you agree with this analogy?

5. (Chapter 60) The narrator describes the form and function of “the line” on a whaling ship, and how dangerous it can be. He then says “All men live enveloped in whale-lines. All are born with halters round their necks.” He suggests that each man is in an equal amount of peril regardless of where he is. Do you think this is true? Is that a reason to take on larger risks in life?

6. (Chapter 62) Ishmael critiques the method of whaling commonly in use, where the headman and the harpooner change places during the course of the hunt. Isn’t Ishmael a rank novice in this business? Do you think this short chapter may have created a bit of a brouhaha in the whaling industry during Melville’s day?

7. (Chapter 68) After a fairly gruesome depiction of the rendering of a captured whale in the preceding chapters, the narrator goes on to sing the praises of the whale: “herein we see the rare virtue of a strong individual vitality, and the rare virtue of thick walls, and the rare virtue of interior spaciousness. Oh man! Admire and model thyself after the whale! . . . Do thou, too, live in this world without being of it.” Again we see an utter fascination with and almost a veneration of the whale. Is this Ishmael? Melville? Does this appeal have any impact on you?
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Week 6
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1. (Chapter 72) Ishmael comments on the use of the monkey-rope that binds the harpooner to his bowsman, protecting him as he stands atop the bound whale to begin processing it: "I saw that this situation of mine was the precise situation of every mortal that breathes; only, in most cases, he, one way or other, has this Siamese connexion with a plurality of other mortals." Are we really as inexorably bound to those around us on a day to day basis as Ishmael says?

2. (Chapter 73) As a newly killed right whale is brought in and the head affixed to the ship opposite the sperm whale's head, Fedallah eyes the right whale. Fedallah's shadow merges with Captain Ahab's: "if [it] was there at all it seemed only to blend with, and lengthen Ahab's." Is this image a suggestion that the Devil is taking over Ahab's soul?

3. (Chapter 78) Queequeg saves Tashtego from dying in the emptied and sinking sarcophagus of the sperm whale's head, which Ishmael likens to an obstetric delivery. He comments, "Midwifery should be taught in the same course with fencing and boxing, riding and rowing." Is Ishmael striking a blow for equality here, since midwifery was historically a woman's domain?

4. (Chapter 79) Admitting he is not well qualified to do so, Ishmael still attempts to apply the two pseudosciences of phrenology and physiognomy to the sperm whale, saying "I try all things; I achieve what I can." Do you think this attitude will save Ishmael? Or do you think it may have gotten him into more trouble than he bargained for?

5. (Chapter 80) Ishmael faults phrenologists for focusing on the brain rather than continuing on down to consider the spinal column: "For I believe that much of a man's character will be found betokened in his backbone." Why is Ishmael concerned with character? What happened to our story?

6. (Chapter 82) Ishmael calls Hercules an "involuntary whaleman" for having been (supposedly) swallowed whole by a whale and spit out - a story which he acknowledges derives originally from the Hebrew story of Jonah and the whale. He goes on to add other legendary characters to his cast of original whalemen. Why does Ishmael work so hard to list these figures as part of the "club"?

7. (Chapter 85) Ishmael (the narrator?) is completely enamored of Sperm Whales: "He is both ponderous and profound. And I am convinced that from the heads of all ponderous profound beings. . . there always goes up a certain semi-visible steam, while in the act of thinking deep thoughts." Where do you think the narrator got such a reverence for Sperm Whales?
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Weekly Questions

Week 7

Week 8

Week 9

I read this book already

Reed wrote: "I read this book already"

Thank you, Reed. We hope you will find other books that you want to read with us. I will be taking nominations for December's book starting on the 1st if you are interested.

What an ambitious endeavor! I read the book a few years ago (after trying it and abandoning it when I was in 7th grade). I'll try to chime in on the discussion as you move along.

Welcome Book Concierge! We'd love to have your input. Looking forward to the discussions.

I'm excited for this! It's been on my TBR for over 35 years. I have little doubt I'll end up 'reading ahead', like I used to get in trouble for in HS!

FYI - if you have Kindle Unlimited, it's free to both read AND listen!

It's also available for free on gutenberg.org (public domain books) and librivox.org (public domain audiobooks).

Book Concierge wrote: "What an ambitious endeavor! I read the book a few years ago (after trying it and abandoning it when I was in 7th grade). I'll try to chime in on the discussion as you move along."

I agree. Erica chose well for the first book. I can't wait to read it. It has been on my list for many years and I just never got around to it.

Deb wrote: "I'm excited for this! It's been on my TBR for over 35 years. I have little doubt I'll end up 'reading ahead', like I used to get in trouble for in HS!

FYI - if you have Kindle Unlimited, it's free..."

That is fantastic about the free sources. I hadn't thought of that.

I would love to join you, but the holiday season is too busy for me. I usually read less. And I try to finish books for my yearly challenges.

I wish this was after the new year instead. Have fun! Wish I could read along.

Marla wrote: "I would love to join you, but the holiday season is too busy for me. I usually read less. And I try to finish books for my yearly challenges.

I wish this was after the new year instead. Have fun! ..."
Hi Marla -
I would encourage you to consider reading starting after the holidays and adding your comments then. There is a lot to this book, and I imagine there may be more than a few people who share your time issues.
I am looking forward to everyone's comments and will continue to follow posts here after the "official" time frame is up.

Erica wrote: " Marla wrote: "I would love to join you, but the holiday season is too busy for me. I usually read less. And I try to finish books for my yearly challenges.

I wish this was after the new year inst..."

Thanks, Erica, I will think about it.

Would anyone be interested in reading this in the new year with me?

I have very mixed feelings about classics but I think a buddy read would help so I'm in.

Hi Sha and Marla - we'll get a Buddy Read thread started for you in January when Marla has the time to start this.

Um hello; sorry about the confusion but I was thinking of joining this month's reading and not one in January?

Also, I can't join this month either, because some stuff came up at work and one challenge (Family Feud) is all I can handle. Sorry.

Hi Sha -
No problem at all! Just jump in when you're ready. This is a long book and will take most people quite some time to get through. I will continue to monitor the comments made long after the "official" time frame is done. I'm really looking forward to seeing everyone's input.

The opening sentence "Call me Ishmael" really hit me. It made me feel like I was being invited to pull a chair up to the fire and listen to a tale from someone who was right there.
I'm further along in the book now, but definitely wondered from the outset if the narrator would turn out to be the same as the author or if he would remain a separate entity throughout the book.

Erica wrote: "The opening sentence "Call me Ishmael" really hit me. It made me feel like I was being invited to pull a chair up to the fire and listen to a tale from someone who was right there.
I'm further alon..."

1. "Call me Ishmael."
How does this opening by the narrator impact you? Any thoughts on the narrator?

I am not sure yet how I feel about the narrator. I read the first section weeks ago before my head started pounding. However, I did struggle a bit.

2. (Chapter 1) Ishmael speaks of mankind's wanderlust when he says, "If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me."
Do you think this sentiment still holds true in our Internet age?

I think it could hold true in a different way. The internet connects us in a way that we have never been connected before. We can travel oceans from our couch. We can have table conversations with someone in another country. It truly is a one-of-a-kind experience that our ancestors never got to experience. However, the experience of wanderlust will always hold true. How many people go on vacations every year? We always want to explore and see new lands. That ocean draws people whether by boat or air. They just don't realize it.

3. (Chapter 1) Ishmael speaks of the story of Narcissus - who drowned in a fountain looking at his own image - saying "But that same image, we ourselves see in all rivers and oceans. It is the image of the ungraspable phantom of life; and this is the key to it all."
What do you think he means by the ungraspable phantom?

We are always reaching for the stars. That image of the perfect life. It doesn't exist which is why it is ungraspable. Life is messy but there is beauty in that mess. We just have to learn to see beyond the mess to see it.

4. (Chapter 1) Ishmael says he knows he'll be ordered about on a whaling ship: "Well, then, however the old sea-captains may . . . thump and punch me about, I have the satisfaction of knowing that it is all right; that everybody else is in one way or other served in much the same way--either in a physical or metaphysical point of view. . . and so the universal thump is passed round, and all hands should rub each other's shoulder-blades, and be content."
Do you agree that we are all subject to receiving "the universal thump" of life? Is Ishmael fatalistic about this?

Physically, it doesn't have to be that way. However, there will always be people that are treated badly and in turn treat others badly. Metaphysically, if we didn't have the bad then good wouldn't be so sweet now, would it? You have to go through the bad in life to appreciate the good things. It may be hard but in the end, we are all stronger for the experience. So no he is not fatalistic about it. He is just accepting that life is full of ups and downs. It is all about how you handle each situation that counts.

5. (Chapters 3 and 10) When Ishmael first encounters Queequeg in he says "ignorance is the parent of fear" as he tries to overcome his initial reactions of fright and revulsion. But just a day later he declares "You can not hide the soul" as he considers Queequeg, and by the end of that chapter the two are bosom buddies.
What does Ishmael's fairly quick change in thoughts on Queequeg tell you about him?

I think it shows that he took the time to look past the surface. Sometimes looks are deceiving and you have to dig a little deeper.

6. (Chapter 7) Ishmael says, "Methinks we have hugely mistaken this matter of Life and Death. Methinks that what they call my shadow here on earth is my true substance."
If Ishmael really believes his true substance is his spirit, why do you think he went to church before embarking on a whaling ship?

The church is a whaleman's church and the narrator talks about memorials to other whalemen when they arrive. I am thinking it is a way to show respect to the dead whaleman and to the ocean/sea as well. As they say, the ocean/sea can be fickle and no one is a master of her. It could take any of them at any time.

7. (Chapter 9) In his sermon on Jonah, Father Mapple says "in this world, shipmates, sin that pays its way can travel freely, and without a passport; whereas Virtue, if a pauper, is stopped at all frontiers."
Do you agree with Father Mapple about sin and Virtue?

It sure seems that way at times. Just think about things that happen in RL. It seems like things that are blatantly wrong go unpunished but innocent people suffer needlessly.

That's as far as I got so I will be back when I get back into it some more.

Donna wrote: "2. (Chapter 1) Ishmael speaks of mankind's wanderlust when he says, "If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean..."

Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way. I do love the sound of water at a lake or the ocean - it's just mesmerizing.

Donna wrote: "3. (Chapter 1) Ishmael speaks of the story of Narcissus - who drowned in a fountain looking at his own image - saying "But that same image, we ourselves see in all rivers and oceans. It is the imag..."

The best I could do with "ungraspable phantom" was some concept of the human spirit reflected in the water. I like your interpretation too. Mine didn't take me very far.

Donna wrote: "4. (Chapter 1) Ishmael says he knows he'll be ordered about on a whaling ship: "Well, then, however the old sea-captains may . . . thump and punch me about, I have the satisfaction of knowing that ..."

Agreed! I just had to laugh when he talked about the "universal thump of life." To me it's so true - everyone gets knocked about one way or another at some point.

Donna wrote: "5. (Chapters 3 and 10) When Ishmael first encounters Queequeg in he says "ignorance is the parent of fear" as he tries to overcome his initial reactions of fright and revulsion. But just a day late..."

Yeah, I like that he was able to overcome his initial impression. He seems like a fairly free spirit so that may be part of his ability to adapt.

Donna wrote: "6. (Chapter 7) Ishmael says, "Methinks we have hugely mistaken this matter of Life and Death. Methinks that what they call my shadow here on earth is my true substance."
If Ishmael really believes ..."

I looked up a bit about Melville too - he was raised a strict Calvinist but apparently chafed at that to some degree. So I wondered if Ishmael's church attendance was a nod to the compulsory religious upbringing of the author. But really I'm out of my depth here - don't know at all if there's anything to that.

Donna wrote: "7. (Chapter 9) In his sermon on Jonah, Father Mapple says "in this world, shipmates, sin that pays its way can travel freely, and without a passport; whereas Virtue, if a pauper, is stopped at all ..."

I totally agree. I just wish there were a way to address that.

Okay, I started reading today...

Marla wrote: "Okay, I started reading today..."

Oh yay!! I will be sure to finish up setting up discussion questions. I will admit I got a bit bogged down on this one. But it is well worth the effort. Thanks for checking in!

Lol, this is definitely going to take me a while, but I am trying to read some each week.

Marla wrote: "Lol, this is definitely going to take me a while, but I am trying to read some each week."

I hear you. I'm on the last little bit and still going slowly...

I have to say that your questions are really probing.

Lol. I've never done this before and was really quite at a loss for how to come up with questions. Melville solved the problem, really. His language is so wonderful - mostly I'm just curious what others think of it!

I stopped reading because I needed to answer the questions, but to be honest, they are overwhelming, so in 2024, I'm going to try and answer each chapter I finish.

I'm one of those people who has to finish every book that I start, so I will keep plugging away.

Week 1
1. "Call me Ishmael."
How does this opening by the narrator impact you? Any thoughts on the narrator?

The opening felt like, "Hi, I'm Marla". Approachable and conversational.

2. (Chapter 1) Ishmael speaks of mankind's wanderlust when he says, "If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me."
Do you think this sentiment still holds true in our Internet age?

I think it truly depends on the person, how much wanderlust they have. I know people who have lived in the U.S. Midwest their whole lives and have only been a few hundred miles away from where they live. Over a dozen who have never traveled farther than an adjoining state. I've met dozens of adults who have never flown on an airplane. And a much less who have been out of the country.

I think if you've traveled it expands your horizons with the new experiences. And some people catch the travel bug, known in Ishmael's time as wanderlust.

3. (Chapter 1) Ishmael speaks of the story of Narcissus - who drowned in a fountain looking at his own image - saying "But that same image, we ourselves see in all rivers and oceans. It is the image of the ungraspable phantom of life; and this is the key to it all."
What do you think he means by the ungraspable phantom?

The reflection looks like a person, but it is merely a one dimensional image. It's not real, and people are not only what they seem on the surface.

4. (Chapter 1) Ishmael says he knows he'll be ordered about on a whaling ship: "Well, then, however the old sea-captains may . . . thump and punch me about, I have the satisfaction of knowing that it is all right; that everybody else is in one way or other served in much the same way--either in a physical or metaphysical point of view. . . and so the universal thump is passed round, and all hands should rub each other's shoulder-blades, and be content."
Do you agree that we are all subject to receiving "the universal thump" of life? Is Ishmael fatalistic about this?

I think everyone is subject to the "universal thump" of life. We start at the bottom of the totem pole, whether in a job or life experience. But I think once you are not the "new guy" you move up the ladder and the newest person takes your place. The lowest person gets the worse tasks, the least respect and often picked on. Ishmael had a realistic attitude about what his life onboard a whaling ship with no experience.

5. (Chapters 3 and 10) When Ishmael first encounters Queequeg in he says "ignorance is the parent of fear" as he tries to overcome his initial reactions of fright and revulsion. But just a day later he declares "You can not hide the soul" as he considers Queequeg, and by the end of that chapter the two are bosom buddies.
What does Ishmael's fairly quick change in thoughts on Queequeg tell you about him?

Ishmael's quick change of heart was impressive. And as Donna said, it showed that Ishmael was willing to change his mind past first impressions and gossip, based on his own observations.

Can you imagine 2 strange men sharing a bed today? I laughed at the thought.

Hi Marla! Glad to see you're still going on this. I will be sure to get questions done for the last few weeks. I ran out of steam before. It's a good book but very long!!

6. (Chapter 7) Ishmael says, "Methinks we have hugely mistaken this matter of Life and Death. Methinks that what they call my shadow here on earth is my true substance."
If Ishmael really believes his true substance is his spirit, why do you think he went to church before embarking on a whaling ship?

Maybe what he thinks and feels is more important than his physical body. I think Ishmael went to church, because sailors are a superstitious group and he wanted to appease the ocean god. Hedging his bets more than true devotion or belief. And the preacher seemed quite understanding at the superstitions of his audience.

7. (Chapter 9) In his sermon on Jonah, Father Mapple says "in this world, shipmates, sin that pays its way can travel freely, and without a passport; whereas Virtue, if a pauper, is stopped at all frontiers."
Do you agree with Father Mapple about sin and Virtue?

Hmmm, I think it is human nature that in the wilderness to be wild. I think civilization and religion tend to create a social conscience rather than just doing whatever you want. So I guess I would agree with Father Mapple.

Erica wrote: "Hi Marla! Glad to see you're still going on this. I will be sure to get questions done for the last few weeks. I ran out of steam before. It's a good book but very long!!"

Lol, no hurry, at this rate I'll need those questions in 2026.