Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion

If anyone would like to lead the discussion for Parable Of The Sower, please let me know.

Has anyone read this? Reading it? Requested from library?

What’s your thoughts on Octavia Butler? Have you read any of her previous work? Are you a scifi reader?

Here’s some info on the author:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octav...

I read it this year! I haven't read anything else by her, but I really liked Parable and I'll read the sequel soon.
One thing that really interested me was the focus on survival via collaboration and agriculture vs. violence and authoritarianism, which is what I've usually seen in post apocalyptic fiction.
I will say though, I was not a fan of the way (view spoiler)[Bankole treats Lauren, (hide spoiler)] I'm not really sure where (view spoiler)[their relationship (hide spoiler)] is going and if it's meant to be problematic.

I read it a few years ago and had it on my shelf, so I dusted it off and am rereading it now. I used to read a lot of scifi in high school and college but got away from it aside from the odd Heinlein book. I got to Butler relatively recently and then picked up everything I could find. So she brought me back to scifi when I can find someone worth reading, like Nnendi Okorafor.

Discussion schedule will be pretty simple:

Chapters 1-13 discuss thru Nov 12th
Entire book open Nov 13th

I read this book last month. I’m looking forward to the discussion.

There is an opera about this book by Toshi Reagon and Ayana Jamison. Check them out on Youtube or Instagram

Themes that I researched from another book review discussion of this book on Youtube by Dr. Kendra Parker and Dr. Kristen Lillvis so far that we could discuss:

Change is God- how is change central to the book and the narrator's religion?
Afrofuturism- what are some examples of sci-fi fantasy elements that blur boundaries in time. "Humankind to take root amoung the stars"

Religion-Christianity vs Earthseed

Neoslavery- how does Octavia interrogate past 19th century chattel slavery vs the slavery in the book.

Writing- how is writing central to survival by the narrator and other characters?

survival- how is survival central to the book?

Wealth inequality-how is wealth inequality weaved into the story and how does it impact the characters?

Diversity- How does Octavia posit diversity in the book? Diversity vs division

feminism-

trust-

Society- how is society destroyed and how does the narrator build a new society?

empathy-

Felicia wrote: "There is an opera about this book by Toshi Reagon and Ayana Jamison. Check them out on Youtube or Instagram

Themes that I researched from another book review discussion of this book on Youtube by ..."

This is great. Thanks, Felicia!

Yes, I've read this and it's a powerful book.

Felicia wrote: "There is an opera about this book by Toshi Reagon and Ayana Jamison. Check them out on Youtube or Instagram


Thanks for the info about the opera, Felicia! I've loved this book (and all Butler's work) for so long, and never heard of the opera until now!

We’re there any themes in the book that you found that I didn’t post?

Do you think the characters were trying to build a utopia with Earthseed?

Felicia wrote: “Do you think the characters were trying to build a utopia with Earthseed?”

This is a really interesting question. My initial response was “Of course,” but the more I think about it, the less I think that’s right. I guess I think some of the characters were trying to build a utopia, or were at least leaning in that direction. Others just wanted to find (or create) a place where they could survive—and if they could trust in the security of that space for longer than one day at a time, all the better.

Felicia wrote: "We’re there any themes in the book that you found that I didn’t post?

Do you think the characters were trying to build a utopia with Earthseed?"

Yes, I think that a few wanted to build a Utopia, but most just wanted a safe community. Anarchy is inherently unsafe, so to have a walled community with a form of "law and order" was much better. Also, it's far easier to survive collectively, not just for safety, but also for food production, etc.

I read it this year for another book group. I truly loved it, although I don't read scifi often. It is such a pity that she wasn't able to finish this series. I have the second book at home, but haven't read it yet.

After Parable of the Sower I read Fledglings. For me, this was a wonderful book as well!

Thank you for the list of topics. I will definitely look into them

Felicia wrote: "We’re there any themes in the book that you found that I didn’t post?

I just finished the book. I agree that writing is a central theme in the book, especially since we are reading the book through Lauren's journaling entries.

Literacy or education, in general, is a big theme in the book. I found it interesting that even in macho situations like Keith, his reading skills are what his crew found most valuable.

Climate Change is also another interesting theme, specifically water and earthquakes.

This is my introduction to Butler, so I'm gonna look up some interviews to find out more about her.

I’m the one that will run far away from anything to do with sci-fi or anything under that umbrella (fantasy, speculative, afro-futurism, space opera etc…). But I read KINDRED and just smiled and hugged it when I finished it. I thought it was absolutely brilliant. Haven’t picked ip a book in that genre since.

I read Parable of the Sower earlier this year and really enjoyed it. It's power is the perspective that it's written from and I'm now reading the sequel; Parable of the Talents.

I'm enthralled by everything Octavia E. Butler wrote - she was and still is an unsung titan of the sci-fi genre. I can recommend Kindred and Fledgling in particular and hope to read her Patternmaster series soon.

I read Kindred. It's a wonderful novel. If I remember correctly, it's from the time travel genre. I have started Parable of the Sower. I am interested in why the author, Octavia Butler, chose the title.
So far, I am really interested in Lauren's survival kit. Also, little Amy's life. Can parents feel this way? I don't want to tear down the parents. Life can become very hard.
Octavia Butler makes you think. I would have loved hearing her give a speech in an auditorium.

I am not finished it yet. I am not ready to give it the star treatment yet. I have not reached chapter 13.

Kindred is supposed to coming out on Hulu on December 13, per an email by Tananarive Due,

George wrote: "Kindred is supposed to coming out on Hulu on December 13, per an email by Tananarive Due,"

I would gladly reread it before it premieres. Did you read it? You like it?

ColumbusReads wrote: "George wrote: "Kindred is supposed to coming out on Hulu on December 13, per an email by Tananarive Due,"

I would gladly reread it before it premieres. Did you read it? You like it?"

I both read and liked it. Can't say I didn't like any of her books.

Favorite Earthseed verse… ready, set, go!

“There is no end to what a living world will demand of you”
Earthseed:The Books of The Living.

“All that you touch you change. All that you change changes you. The only lasting truth is Change. God is Change.

(From the first page of the first book of Earthseed) pg 195

This one made me laugh and I think you may know why…

“Help us to make America great again”

LOL 😆 I read that passage twice.. how could she predict such a phrase to describe the future… wow

I did read that Reagan used that phrase or a similar phrasing, which would make sense since this was published in early 90’s

I finished this book last week and I have to say it is in my top 10 dystopian books of all time. I loved the writing and the characters were all so good. I just bought the second one too so im excited to read that.

Blue wrote: "I read Kindred. It's a wonderful novel. If I remember correctly, it's from the time travel genre. I have started Parable of the Sower. I am interested in why the author, Octavia Butler, chose the t..."


It's not that unusual to use Bible references in Scifi for non-Biblical things, although I think in this instance the title was chosen because it's very apt. This is especially found early on when more of the authors had been taken to church as kids.

This is a parable that is first told about planting seed (a type that is sown by scattering) that lands on different types of ground. It is one of the few that has a very clear explanation give. The seed is the Word and the ground is the different types of "heart" of those who hear. I think that this refers to, at the very least, the founding of the new religion that happens in this book (it is continued in the second book) and how people respond to it. It is put down as a written word that is also spoken.

This is just my thinking--I haven't looked it up to see if Butler ever explained why she did it or if there have been a lot of discussions.

Another illustration of this but in hard-core scifi (this book isn't hardcore and that's one of the reasons so many non-scifi readers like it) that is re-interpreting something is in Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke where (view spoiler)[a verse that says "The meek shall inherit the earth" is the premise for the ship(s) to come and control humankind until aliens called the meek come and take the earth over. (hide spoiler)]

Another title taken from the Bible is Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein but I read that long before I came across that line and can't remember if it has any Scifi parallels to its use in the Bible.

There are more, of course, but these are the only ones I tend to remember right off the bat.

Karin,thanks for the two book titles.

Blue wrote: "Karin,thanks for the two book titles."

You're welcome, but they are very different styles of writing from Butler. They may well be sexist, etc--I really can't remember after all these years. I have found that I'm rarely interested in classic hardcore scifi anymore. Butler is more literary in her style of writing, etc :)

Heinlein was a very problematic writer over the decades of his career. He originally wrote short stories for popular scifi magazines, I thought the worst was Jerry was a Man, published in 47. In that story, Jerry is an geneticly modified ape with enhanced intelligence and the ability to talk. Apes are being used as slave labor until they age out when they're killed and harvested for dog food. Jerry is locked up and sees a woman walking by and begs for a cigarette. It turns out she's rich and becomes his protector, setting up a court case. He proceeds eventually to satisfy the judge that he is a man by singing an old spiritual, in dialect. Of course he was writing to satisfy the audience of this pulp magazine. But even his far later, and far better Stranger in a Strange Land had a similar issue. As I recall, the only black character in the book was was the cook on the space ship to Mars, where he subsequently died of homesickness. He didn't rate more than a paragraph. In his last books, the main character was an old man of rare character surrounded by a bevy of beautiful strong women who adored him.

“I looked at Natividad who sat a short distance away, on spread out sleepsacks, playing with her baby and talking to Zahra. She had been lucky. Did she know? How many other people were less lucky—unable to escape the master’s attentions or gain the mistress’s sympathies. How far did masters and mistresses go these days toward putting less than submissive servants in their places?”

I had never heard an Octavia Butler interview before or even heard her speak. I don’t know if she was a recluse like Gayl Jones or some others but there was very little available as far as interviews and such. Here are a couple:

https://youtu.be/KG68v0RGHsY

https://youtu.be/e0UgiE8vYuI

New piece on Octavia Butler. I’ll include this in the Longreads section as well.

https://www.vulture.com/article/octav...

ColumbusReads wrote: "New piece on Octavia Butler. I’ll include this in the Longreads section as well.

https://www.vulture.com/article/octav..."
Can't read it without sigining up for a subscription. Ah well.

Thanks George! It opened for me!

Fee wrote: "Thanks George! It opened for me!" I think it's because I've read a previous article recently and that was my free quota. The message I got was that I needed to subscribe it I wanted to read this.

ColumbusReads wrote: "If anyone would like to lead the discussion for Parable Of The Sower, please let me know."

Yes years ago. I read most of Octavia's work, if not all. I am currently reading the Graphic Novel version and wondering if it is different from what I remember reading the novel version.

ColumbusReads wrote: "I’m the one that will run far away from anything to do with sci-fi or anything under that umbrella (fantasy, speculative, afro-futurism, space opera etc…). But I read KINDRED and just smiled and hu..."

Kindred is my favorite of Octavia then Wildseed. I also like the GN (graphic novel) version of Kindred. Do you think the movie in 2021 with singer Janelle Monae resembled or similar to the novel, Kindred, since it dealt w/ slavery in the modern day?

George wrote: "Kindred is supposed to coming out on Hulu on December 13, per an email by Tananarive Due,"
Thanks, i wondered. The one called Kindred on Hulu now is not the same.

George wrote: "Heinlein was a very problematic writer over the decades of his career. He originally wrote short stories for popular scifi magazines, I thought the worst was Jerry was a Man, published in 47. In th..."

I loathed A Stranger in a Strange Land. When I was a child I liked some of his books, but then I started reading his books when I was 10 so didn't have a cultivated reading palate. I read that genre and era until my early to mid teens for the most part.

Adrienna wrote: "ColumbusReads wrote: "I’m the one that will run far away from anything to do with sci-fi or anything under that umbrella (fantasy, speculative, afro-futurism, space opera etc…). But I read KINDRED ..."

I've had Kindred on my want to read shelf for a long time and have wanted to read it even longer.

Karin
no better time than now. I said this upcoming season, need to read many books on my shelf or purchased years prior.

If your in the DMV next June: https://www.strathmore.org/events-tic...

Adrienna wrote: "George wrote: "Kindred is supposed to coming out on Hulu on December 13, per an email by Tananarive Due,"
Thanks, i wondered. The one called Kindred on Hulu now is not the same." I read it back in high school and again in college. I liked Heinlein quite a bit at the time, but in rereading it, I picked up a collection of his short stores where I came across Jerry was a Man. A bit later I wrote a short paper on Heinlein's work gratis for a friend and took the time to go over and reevaluate my opinion of the author.

I'm currently rereading Butler's sequel of this work, Parable of the Talent and looking forward to seeing Kindred.

Hi all, I've read both Parable of the Sowers and Talents, and am wondering if other folks saw the theme of betrayal? We see betrayal with Tracy Dunn (abused by her uncle) and 3 year old Amy (ignored by her mother), but we don't see any forgiveness or redemption. In Talents, we see betrayal of Allie and Mary by Beth and Jessica in the re-education camp; again, no redemption, nor forgiveness afterwards. Beth and Jessica just disappear. Then the biggest betrayal story of all: how Marcos deliberately kept Lauren away from her own child. And again, we don't see any redemption, nor forgiveness, when Lauren finds out what Marcos did.
I find this interesting, because Lauren's religion is a huge part of the books, and a common criticism of Earthseed by the other characters is how impersonal the religion feels. And, betrayal is a deeply, profoundly personal hurt. It's almost as if Earthseed doesn't really have an answer to how to approach betrayal. In real life, my belief is that you need a bridge--someone to intercede, who is empathetic to both parties and who holds authority--to come and say hey, let's talk this out. The only person in Marcos and Lauren's life who could have possibly been their bridge, was their father, who disappeared. If Octavia Butler had written a third book, it would have been interesting to see the father come back, and try and bridge the profoundly broken relationships in the family.

I'm actually surprised that the theme of betrayal wasn't more prominent in the book. In the most chaotic and ruthless of time periods, the potential for betrayal is one of the biggest sources of stress and danger. I thought that Cory's accusation that her husband cared more about Lauren than their son Keith, was a hint of something Cory would eventually do--that she would betray her stepchildren (Lauren) for the survival of her birth children. And that that betrayal would be a major part of Lauren's character. But, that didn't happen. Cory simply disappeared, which felt unsatisfying.

Interesting possible plat twist!