2025 Reading Challenge discussion

This thread is to discuss A Feast for Crows, the fourth book in the A Song of Ice and Fire series by George R.R. Martin.

Pages: 1061 pages

Length: 2 months (November and December)

Participants:bailey, Lorraine, Jessica, Dominique, Alison, Nate, Darlene, Caterina

Everyone reads at their own pace during a Buddy Read. Because participants can be at different parts of the book at different times, it is extremely important to mark spoilers so that the book is not ruined for someone who is not as far along as others!!!

Mark spoilers by placing {spoiler} before the text and {/spoiler} after the text but use the < and > instead of the { and }.

Hello everyone. I will start this book around the 15th. Just want a little pause from GOT.

I read the first three chapters.

Prologue - (view spoiler)[The prologues always make sense once the story unravels, but for now, this was very confusing. Is the alchemist supposed to be Jaqen H'ghar? (hide spoiler)]

I like that they're getting POVs from the Iron Islands and Dorne in this book.

Just started this a few days ago.
Caterina (view spoiler)[ I agree that the prologues are always confusing. And even once it would make sense, I find I’ve forgotten whatever happened during the prologue because of the time it takes me to read these books. (hide spoiler)]

Through chapter 5, Brienne: (view spoiler)[ I was surprised that I actually enjoyed listening to Cersei’s chapter right before this one. Hearing her POV actually made her more likable and her motives more understandable to me. I don’t know if I’ll be able to root for her but I think hearing more from her is going to make her character more tolerable at least.
I also loved getting Brienne’s POV. I loved her in the show and I’m not surprised that’s carrying over to the books, too. (hide spoiler)]

This has been moved to the December Buddy Reads folder.

Just started again. I also agree that the prologue is confusing. GRRM is introducing many new characters and, if it was not my third time of reading the book, I would need a chart to make sure I am not getting mixed up will all the characters ( hummm but thinking about it I might do one :-) as I do not remember a lot about this book).

SarahKat wrote: "This has been moved to the December Buddy Reads folder."

Thank you, SarahKat!

bailey wrote: "Just started this a few days ago.
Caterina [spoilers removed]

Through chapter 5, Brienne: I was surprised that I actually enjoyed listening to Cersei’s chapter right before this one. Hearing her..."

I also appreciate how much of Cersei's inner monologue we are getting in this book. With Tywin dead, she finally gets to be in charge, which is not only something she has always wanted, but also something she feels qualified for.

Cersei asking Kevan to be the Hand (view spoiler)[I love that Kevan thought she would leave King's Landing and let him be the Regent. LOL like many others, he underestimated her interest in ruling. (hide spoiler)]

Lorraine wrote: "Just started again. I also agree that the prologue is confusing. GRRM is introducing many new characters and, if it was not my third time of reading the book, I would need a chart to make sure I am..."

When I first read the books, I would constantly flip to the back, where all the characters are listed by house and relationship. My second read is a much quicker process!

OK, I am getting caught up in posting here! I had read the first 5 chapters (through Brienne) before Thanksgiving but then family came! I now have time to read again ;)

My thoughts on the first 5 chapters (through Brienne):
(view spoiler)[
Prologue: this was confusing to me (I have no idea who the Alchemist is) but I was for sure from the first page that Pate would die at the end of the chapter! I feel like these characters (Pate and the Alchemist) will play a role in this book somehow...we just don't know how yet!

Chapter 1 (The Prophet): Very interesting to see the history/possible struggle for whom will be the King of the Iron Isles through Aeron's eyes. He is a fanatic (I can't imagine going through the Drowning ritual to become a Drowned Gods priest)!

Chapter 2 (The Captain of the Guards): I like the Prince of Dorn a lot better in the book than in the TV show. In the TV show he seemed one dimensional to me and in the book, he is more shrewd, a better politician than I imagined him and more aware of/adept at handling the dynamics of who is going to try to avenge the death of his brother. I feel sorry for him being in pain all the time...

Chapter 3 (Cersei): I agree with you, Bailey and Caterina, that I like hearing Cersei's inner thoughts more in this book! In the last book, her point of view wasn't heard and her character was formed through the thoughts of Tyrion. I like hearing what she is thinking...I may not like her but maybe I could sympathize with her a little (that is a BIG maybe...I hate the way she treats Jamie and Tyrion :)

Chapter 4 (Brienne): I love Brienne! She is dogged in her pursuit of Sansa and very loyal!

I do have to say that I hope we see more of Lady Catelyn (Lady Stoneheart) in this book! She wasn't a character in the TV series and I am all for Lady Stoneheart getting her revenge!!
(hide spoiler)]

Alison wrote: "OK, I am getting caught up in posting here! I had read the first 5 chapters (through Brienne) before Thanksgiving but then family came! I now have time to read again ;)

My thoughts on the first 5 ..."

(view spoiler)[ Hearing what you said about our view of Cersei being entirely through Tyrion's eyes makes so much sense! I hadn't thought about how he shaped our view of so many characters in the last book because of how much of the book was from his perspective. I absolutely detested Cersei in the show (but I love Lena Headey) but I think I feel for her more now that I've gotten to hear about the BS she's had to deal with being a woman in the shitty, misogynistic world of ASOIAF. I'm sure at some point she'll do something to eff up my somewhat positive opinion of her though lol! (hide spoiler)]

Bailey, Alison... you are so funny!!!
But I think you are right that the previous book was a lot about what Tyrion thought and since Cersei and him are not best of friends...(let`s leave it at that), his portrait of her is not on her good side. Even thought I still do not feel she has any good side! Except, like someone said (I think it was Caterina), her love of her children.
We'll see... :-)

Hey everyone! Sorry for the hiatus with a Storm of Swords, but I'm back. I finished the book already (I worked several overnight shifts and have no self-control) and loved every page of it. Feast For Crows might be my favorite book of the series so far. There are a lot of things that I am excited to see you all react to. Since we're currently discussing the first couple of chapters:

Prologue: Our introduction to the Citadel of Oldtown was pretty cool. Leo is annoying, the Sphinx is hilarious, and boy oh boy I loved the reveal of Jaqen!
Chapters 1&2: I am quite happy that we are getting different points of view for our events on Pyke and Dorne.

I personally didn't enjoy Cerci's first couple POV chapters, but there is a point where that turned around for me. Brianne's chapters are some of my favorite in this book. There's a fun easter egg I wonder if anyone will recognize ;). Samwell must be protected at all costs!

Is it too late to participate? As a huge Brienne fan, the addition of her POV is one of my favorite things. This is my third read of this. (“The things I do while waiting for TWOW,” to misquote Jaime.)

@Jill…it is definitely not too late to join! Welcome!

Thanks!

Prologue: Never get attached to a prologue POV! That way leads to as much heartbreak as a Frey wedding. Poor Pate is among the more self-deluded prologue characters, which is saying something. He goes on and on about a life with Rosey, but all he’d get for that gold dragon is one night in her bed. He doesn’t seem to have asked her if she wants the future he envisions for them. Jaqen may have saved him a world of heartbreak, though in a cruel way.

I have long subscribed to the popular theory in ASOIF fandom concerning the Sphinx’s identity. There aren’t too many theories I hold on to, but this one I’m all in on.

I like these small chapters called The Kraken’s Daughter, The Soiled Knight, The Iron Captain…it’s different from the previous books where I think all chapters were name after a character.

Jill: I am curious about your comment regarding the Sphinx identity. I will read this chapter again…

On thing though, is that I want to read the Targaryen series now!

Lorraine wrote: "Bailey, Alison... you are so funny!!!
But I think you are right that the previous book was a lot about what Tyrion thought and since Cersei and him are not best of friends...(let`s leave it at that..."

(view spoiler)[ Totally agree, I hated Cersei and Joffrey. We only had one version of them and we never saw what she's been through. Seeing how close she was to Jaimie in the other books now you can feel the distance between them (hide spoiler)]

Lorraine,
The theory is(view spoiler)[that the Sphinx is Sarella Sand, Oberyn’s daughter, in disguise. She uses the name Alleras, which is Sarella spelled backwards and says her father was Dornish and her mother was from the Summer Islands, which is Sarella’s background. Elsewhere, we learn that Sarella is the only Sand Snake not on Dorne.<\end spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

Chapters 1-5: These first few chapters are all about characters reacting to the events of ASOS. Neither the Ironborn nor the Dornish are among my favorite storylines, so I find myself just enduring those chapters till we get to what I truly care about. What stands out for me on this reread is how many characters are making the wrong decisions and how their decisions will lead so many of them to disaster.

Cersei’s chapters show her self-delusion in full swing. I would feel sorry for her, but for all her ranting about how she should be in control, she treats other women as badly as she’s been treated. Worse, possibly. This chapter is our introduction to the valonqar prophecy. I do wonder where GRRM plans to go with that.

Brienne is too perfect for this world; I love her so much! Just as with her journey through the Riverlands with Jaime showed us how the war has hurt the smallfolk, she’s observing more on this trip, including running into some less than savory characters. I do hope she talks to the boy on the piebald horse soon!

@Lorraine...I, too, am liking the unusual chapters (The Kraken's Daughter, The Soiled Knight, etc)! I feel these are looks into characters that are ones that would normally be side characters.
For example, who is Ser Aerys Oakheart (The Soiled Knight)?Certainly not a main character but will his actions lead to a main storyline in the book?
I just read The Soiled Knight:
(view spoiler)[ I have a feeling that Ser Aerys Oakheart is being used by his "love" Arienne (who isn't really his love ;) The main idea of this chapter is to put forth the opinion that Myrcella should be queen rather that Tommen be king....is that going to become a main storyline or just a side "quest"?
For those of you who watched House of the Dragons, I noticed that Sir Criston Cole and his history got discussed in this chapter! GRRM loves to leave little nuggets...:)
(hide spoiler)]

@Jill, I also love Brienne...(view spoiler)[ AND in Chapter 10 she just talked with the boy on the piebald horse!! He is one of my favorite characters from the TV series...I will have to see how he develops in the book! (hide spoiler)]

@Dominique...I really hate the way Cersei is treating Jamie now!

@Nate...I will have to look for the Easter Egg regarding Samwell...I hope I recognize it! I also agree that we are getting different views on Pyke and Dorne...the power struggle in both is so interesting!

Another couple opinions about this book so far:
1.No Tyrion's point of view! All we have now is Jamie and Cersei's opinions on him!
2. Poor Sansa! (view spoiler)[Having to stay in character pretending to be Littlefinger's daughter AND having to deal with needy little Robert after his mother's death...UGH! (hide spoiler)]
3. I still say Please bring on Lady Stoneheart! I haven't encountered her yet but can't wait to see what revenge she has in store!

Alison,
He’s one of my favorite show characters too, though I actually love this version of him more. (I really can’t say that there are any show versions I prefer to the books. For me, that show is poorly done fanfic. If it were on AO3, I would not leave kudos.)

Tyrion, Danny, etc., were omitted from this book because GRRM broke it up mainly in terms of location. The characters not in this book end up in Dance, and many of the characters in Feast don’t show up in Dance.

Since my hopes of ever getting Winds fades a little more every day, this really breaks my heart.

After 3 times reading the books, I still find thing I either did not notice the first and second time or that I do not remember. For example, (view spoiler)[ I did not remember that Tywin wanted to marry Cersei to Rhaegar but that Aerys refused to hear of it. And I completely missed that Rhaegar was interested in the wolf girl! (hide spoiler)]
And I think I found the Easter Egg…(view spoiler)[ Samwell meeting Arya in Braavos. Imagine if Samwell had realized it was her! (hide spoiler)]

I just finished the chapter "The Queenmaker" and have to say
(view spoiler)[ Poor Sir Aerys Oakheart...so loyal to the end! I like that we see more of Dorne in this book and think that the Prince of Dorne knows more/sees more than people realize...he is very political and was able to put down Arianne's rebellion!

In "The Drowned Man" chapter, I think that Asha had the best plan for to rule the Greyjoy clan but Euron wants to take Westeros, which is too ambitious by far! We will see what happens, I am assuming, since we are seeing this battle for the kingship...

I still don't like Cersei and poor Brienne...I do really like her (and Samwell)!

I noticed that GRRM brought up Sir Criston Cole again in Jamie's chapter! I wonder if in this book, Sir Criston Cole (or the history of him) has some significance?
(hide spoiler)]

Lorraine wrote: "After 3 times reading the books, I still find thing I either did not notice the first and second time or that I do not remember. For example, [spoilers removed]
And I think I found the Easter Egg…[..."

I too had forgotten this part: (view spoiler)[
"Tywin wanted to marry Cersei to Rhaegar"

I honestly wonder if things might have turned out differently for Cersei if she had married Rhaegar (or anyone else) who was more loving and less violent than Robert.

We've already talked about how interesting it is to experience Cersei from her own POV. Something that wasn't as obvious in previous books (or in the show) is how physical her relationship with Robert was. I say this because she mentions the physical abuse in her marriage often enough to make me uneasy. She also talk about quite casually when something like that would have had a profound effect on her.

She also drinks a lot (though maybe all characters do). I wonder if the paranoia, the drinking, and manipulative behavior were a by-product of that marriage. She obviously wasn't a nice person to start with, but I also wouldn't wish that kind of husband on anyone.

What do you y'all think?
(hide spoiler)]

Alison wrote: "I just finished the chapter "The Queenmaker" and have to say
Poor Sir Aerys Oakheart...so loyal to the end! I like that we see more of Dorne in this book and think that the Prince of Dorne knows m..."

I love reading about all the power struggles and scheming that go on in Dorne and the Iron Islands. It's so good and it makes for a more interesting and compelling universe. The show should have incorporated more of these story lines.

Ser Criston Cole (view spoiler)[
Jaime: "They belonged to Criston Cole, who served the first Viserys and the second Aegon. They called him Kingmaker."

I did not know he had that name. I feel like name "Kingmaker" would work better for Otto and/or Alicent than Criston.
(hide spoiler)]

Caterina wrote: "Alison wrote: "I just finished the chapter "The Queenmaker" and have to say
Poor Sir Aerys Oakheart...so loyal to the end! I like that we see more of Dorne in this book and think that the Prince o...

I also wonder if in the new book ( if ever there is a new book...) GRRM will develop these characters ( Dorne and the Iron Islands). We had to wait a long time between each book but this time, like Jill, I am losing hope...

Caterina wrote: "Lorraine wrote: "After 3 times reading the books, I still find thing I either did not notice the first and second time or that I do not remember. For example, [spoilers removed]
And I think I found..."

You make a good point. (view spoiler)[ For sure, people experiencing PTSD, are often paranoid, aggressive, and often develop dependency for drugs or alcohol, to relieve their stress. Unfortunately, that does increase their paranoia and lack of self- esteem. That description does resemble Cersei…and it started just after her husband death and Jamie departure. Like if the universe she knew disappeared and she looked for other way to cope.
It is interesting to look at how Sansa, who also experienced difficult situation and abuses (much more later on), will deal with it. (hide spoiler)]

I finished the book yesterday (and found myself reading historical romance books along with it to put me in a lighter mood after reading AFFC ;)

My thoughts on this book:
(view spoiler)[ This book was slower paced that the previous ones, I thought, and we got more contemplative looks at some of the characters! Is the war for the Throne over? The latter part of the book seems like Westeros is sort of picking up the pieces from the war...

My thoughts about some of the characters:
Cersei: I will be happy to not read chapters told from Cersei's viewpoint (although it was, in this book, good to get her inner thoughts). She is not a likeable character and I have no sympathy for her even after getting to see the world from her perspective! I think she is terrible at "the Game of Throne"...she doesn't see the "big picture" and is only influenced by her emotions. She is very paranoid and I am not sure that is from her upbringing, her marriage to Robert or the prophecy that she received (the one where it states her children will all die and she will be killed by her brother). I hope in the next book that Cersei's voice will be told by someone else and not directly from her.

Sansa, on the other hand, is a total gamer now and I am here for it! She is playing the game with Littlefinger, going along with being called "Alayne" and dealing with needy little Robert (whom I feel somewhat sorry for). Littlefinger is creepy but is also playing the game...

Arya better not be blind (I think we know from the TV show that she is not) and I can't wait to see her in the next book!

Same goes from Brienne...she better not be dead! I was excited to see that Brienne was being brought to Lady Stoneheart (YES...finally I got to read about Lady Stoneheart!!) but that did not turn out as I anticipated!
As for Lady Stoneheart, sadly, I think she needs to die again! She is just killing everyone out of spite...but I guess that is was ghosts/resurrected people do! ;)

Jamie...he went through a lot of inner transformation and maybe he has opened his eyes to how cruel/yucky his sister is!

Samwell...another one of my favorite characters! He has internal growth as well, moving away from Jon and going to Oldtown, he has to gain some strength and self confidence.

The chapters of Sam on the boat with Maester Aemon dying are ones that I am going to have to reread again because there is a lot that Maester Aemon is saying! At some point Aemon says that "no one ever looked for a girl...it was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought....he shared my belief when he was young but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy.....Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it."
Aemon also says to Sam: "You must convince them, where I could not. Tell them, Sam...tell them how it is upon the Wall...the wights and white walkers...Lady Melisandre has misread the signs..."

My husband brought up a point that in the latter part of the book, the dragon with 3 heads was talked about! My husband thinks this refers to Jon, Danerys and...who else? Who else could ride a dragon?
(hide spoiler)]

I enjoyed this book and look forward to reading the next one with you all! Happy Holidays!

The fun in reading in a group is when someone noticed something you have missed! I was going to give my book to a charity shop when I came upon your comments, Alison.
Especially this part:
(view spoiler)[ The chapters of Sam on the boat with Maester Aemon dying are ones that I am going to have to reread again because there is a lot that Maester Aemon is saying! At some point Aemon says that "no one ever looked for a girl...it was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought....he shared my belief when he was young but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy.....Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it."
Aemon also says to Sam: "You must convince them, where I could not. Tell them, Sam...tell them how it is upon the Wall...the wights and white walkers...Lady Melisandre has misread the signs..."

My husband brought up a point that in the latter part of the book, the dragon with 3 heads was talked about! My husband thinks this refers to Jon, Danerys and...who else? Who else could ride a dragon?
(hide spoiler)]
Now I have to read it again! If Jon (view spoiler)[ could ride the dragon does that mean he is the Prince they are waiting for?
and I have a question for those who have read the Targaryan story. How did they got to be the ones riding dragons ? Do you know ? (hide spoiler)]
Look forward reading the next book with this group !

Lorraine,
According to Fire & Blood, many of the noble families of Valyria were dragonriders. So if you have ancestors from the old blood of Valyria, you may be able to ride dragons. So who may have that ability could include any Targaryens, House Valyrian (pretty sure I’m spelling that wrong, but the the Sea Snake from House of the Dragon), House Baratheon, House Tarth (revealed in The World of Ice & Fire: The Untold History of Westeros and the Game of Thrones), some others I’m blanking on now.

(view spoiler)[And any hidden Targaryens. Say if Rhaegar left any living children behind. (Within the fandom, this is referred to as R+L=J.)<\spoiler>

Alison,
(view spoiler)[Brienne is definitely alive. She makes a brief appearance in A Dance with Dragons (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Jill wrote: "Lorraine,
According to Fire & Blood, many of the noble families of Valyria were dragonriders. So if you have ancestors from the old blood of Valyria, you may be able to ride dragons..."

Thanks for the info. I do have the book and waiting until we finished with the last book (last book for now, heard 2023 might be the year we get the next book).

Wow! I was looking at my hardcover book for A Dance with Dragons to start planning for next year. There is an introduction by GRRM, dated April 2011! Can you imagine! We still do not have the next book! Will have to go to Fire and Blood after that one since there might not be another book of A song of ice and Fire.
I do remember the ending of this book though! Ohhhh! Hope all of you are joining in January. 959 pages…

Lorraine wrote: "Wow! I was looking at my hardcover book for A Dance with Dragons to start planning for next year. There is an introduction by GRRM, dated April 2011! Can you imagine! We still do not have the next ..."

He's talking about the next book but no date. I might start after Christmas during my break.

(view spoiler)[In Chapter 41, “ Alyane” recalls Sandor kissing her when he shows up in her room during Stannis’ attack. In truth, Sandor threatens to kiss her but doesn’t. Anyone want to guess why Sansa remembers what was a threat of rape as a romantic moment? My guess: Sandor treated her better than most people in Kings Landing, certainly better than the rest of Joff’s kingsguard. She’s still the girl who loved the songs, even though she now knows that life is not like a song. And it’s a hell of a lot better than Petyr’s creepy come-one.<\spoilers> (hide spoiler)]

Now that we're done with the book, let's go back to the beginning. It looks like Pate from the prologue is back in the last chapter. It's the Alchemist who poses as Pate the pig, but why? Do we know that yet?

@Jill - I think Sansa is still growing up. I also agree that Sandor has been nicer to her than anyone else in KL (or since she's left Winterfell). Didn't the Hound and the Mountain have a sister who died young? I can't remember if that was in the books or the show, but maybe Sansa reminds him of his sister.

@Lorraine - Thanks for pointing this out.

At the beginning of A Dance with Dragons, the note from Martin starts with "It has been a while between books, I know." 🤣🤣🤣

A Feast for Crows was published in 2005 and A Dance with Dragons came out in 2011. Meanwhile, we are now in 2022 and still waiting on A Storm of Swords...

I personally loved this book. I look forward to reading the next one with you all!