Children's Books discussion

There's a very interesting discussion going in the Picture Book club right now. I think it's a better fit here, and I trust the participants to be respectful, so here you go.

(From: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...)

One reader, a former librarian, is a devout Christian and feels that Pagans and others are given deference and preference over Christians. And that there is too much secularism: for example, she knows that there are plenty stories and programs about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but none about Christ's birth, death, and ressurection.

(If I summarized her position inaccurately, I deeply apologize and welcome advice about how to correct the above.)

Well, I've certainly seen plenty of Nativity stories. And I am quite sure that none of the librarians that I know would reject a polite request for a purchase of a book about the 'death' and the Resurrection, if one has been published and has kid appeal. The libraries in Missouri and in Oklahoma sure do have plenty of books that educate us all about Christian beliefs.

Programming would be difficult. Getting a speaker in might help, but they'd have to have something unique or new to say.

I wonder, too, about Christian denominations undermining each other with debates. Remember how scary it was to mostly Protestant Americans to elect the Catholic John F. Kennedy....

A response I made upthread in that discussion was at the end of a page so I think it got overlooked. I also think it relevant to banned books and censorship campaigns in general:

Education [does not equal] promotion/evangelism.

I think it is important to show and display both secular and more religious oriented holiday displays for Christmas and for Easter, as not everyone in the USA, in Canada, in Europe is Christian and I like a bit of diversity as long as neither the secular nor the Christian themes are being displayed in a way that is fundamentalist (and yes, even pagan and secular displays can be the latter).

What do you mean by fundamentalist?

Cheryl wrote: "What do you mean by fundamentalist?"

One sided in some way, and that can be right wing, left wing, secular or religious.

Still not sure what you mean. As in being righteous, and proclaiming that my belief is the one true path, bein evangelical, something like that?

Not sure how a library display even could be that. Unless it did focus on just one belief system and only showed the most devout texts in its collection. I'm sure no library would do that, but instead would show a diversity of belief systems.

Just to offer a bit of levity, this comic showed up in my subscription today:

https://librarycomic.com/comic/941/

Cheryl wrote: "Still not sure what you mean. As in being righteous, and proclaiming that my belief is the one true path, bein evangelical, something like that?

Not sure how a library display even could be that...."

I actually do not think a display of books can do that, but if someone sees display that for example only shows secular Easter or Christmas book titles or conversely only religious based ones, he or she might be annoyed at that and want something more diverse. I know I probably explained this in a problematic way, but what I am saying is that for displays regarding holidays the titles should in my opinion show an equal number of secular and non secular titles.

Prosteltyzing has no place in a public or school library but a storytelling, sharing a story from their culture does not equal telling someone what to believe. I once heard a Wampanoag storyteller at a library event on ancestral Wampanoag land- which at the time was not acknowledged. (Today, some towns are starting to acknowledge land as ancestral territory). The story briefly mentioned a tree in the image of god. She didn't say God, the Christian God, just god. A mom flipped out and challenged the woman. The storyteller explained that she was speaking of her culture. In her culture - she didn't say religion- everything in nature was in the image of God. The mother chose to remove her two small children. The story was about the Wampanoag land in the neighborhood where I grew up, what it was like back before the English moved in in 1643. She wasn't telling anyone what to think or believe. She was sharing her culture.

My sister's hooligans were running around and too busy to sit and listen but my sister sat and listened so she could learn about another culture.

The library has plenty of Christian religious books, even in my neighborhood where a large Orthodox Jewish population lives. I read Petook: An Easter Story. Tomie dePaola wrote a lot of Christian stories. He lived with the Benedictine monks for a time. Anyone with a library card is welcome to check these books out and share them with their families. The public library exists for the public and has to serve a diverse community. What works in one community won't work in another. My mom grew up in PA in a community founded by Germanic dissenters. Her traditions are Moravian and Pennsylvania Dutch. The public library there is doing a craft activity to make Moravian candles. The candle has religious signifiance and I'm sure are often used as decoration today. Traditionally they're lit during the Christmas Eve church services. No one here would know what a Moravian is let alone a Moravian candle but a Dios de Los Muertos library program would resonate with lots of kids in the city.

That's a great comic Cheryl!

QNPoohBear wrote: "Prosteltyzing has no place in a public or school library but a storytelling, sharing a story from their culture does not equal telling someone what to believe. I once heard a Wampanoag storyteller ..."

So that "person" flipped out and verbally accosted the storyteller on the storyteller's own land!! Wow, how incredibly tone deaf and rude!

But this actually happens quite often. In Germany, in most of Western Eruope, on public beaches, it is considered totally acceptable for women to sunbathe and even go swimming with bare breasts. But still, you often encounter tourists (or recent immigrants, refugees) from more conservative nations and areas verbally accosting and sometimes even threatening women on French and German beaches for going "oben ohne" (without on-top, basically meaning without coverings above), and which is totally unacceptable since in Western Europe, sunbathing with bare breasts and even nude sunbathing is generally acceptable and has been acceptable forever, and if you visit Europe or if you relocate there, you simply have to accept and to also respect this.

I can't even guess why the woman brought her children to the Wampanoag program. I want to respect her point of view, but I don't understand what it is.

Cheryl wrote: "I can't even guess why the woman brought her children to the Wampanoag program. I want to respect her point of view, but I don't understand what it is."

I keep thinking she was just trying to get attention, for she could and should simply have left quietly with her children without confronting the storyteller and making a scene.

So, I haven't really paid attention to what our library storytimes are running these days because my kids are past that age but I don't remember any type of religion (for any religion) in the books that were shared back when we were attending maybe four or five years ago. If any seasonal topics it was pretty generic like autumn leaves, snowmen, that sort of thing. I will say the library craft sessions look to be Christmas-based for the upcoming month but not anything religious just like "make a beaded Christmas ornament."

Our library has religious Christmas and Easter picture books as well as secular ones. I understand that, for many people in America, Christmas is a secular holiday now so it makes sense books reflect that but I am also grateful that we have some really beautiful books about the nativity, resurrection, etc.

I do see the original poster's point perhaps more in media as a whole these days that it seems other religions are more in the spotlight and Christianity not something that is really seen very prominently anymore. But, I have not seen this happening in our libraries.

Cheryl wrote: "A response I made upthread in that discussion was at the end of a page so I think it got overlooked. I also think it relevant to banned books and censorship campaigns in general:

Education [does not equal] promotion/evangelism.."

Very true. And I am just musing here, but I wonder if there is this sense that Christianity is so intertwined with US culture as a whole that perhaps the people putting on these programs feel most patrons don't need to hear a storytime picture book about the nativity to learn about it because they already know it (whether they are practicing Christians or not) vs. other religions where the majority of American may not really understand about a holiday like Diwali or Eid or know anything about Wampanoag spirituality. Our society is getting increasingly diverse and there is this education component to it with perhaps also a celebration aspect that our society is now welcoming enough that people from non-Christian religions can share. But, I do not feel that Christians should be excluded, either, and I will be very curious to look at our library displays this Christmas to see if there are some religious picture books along with the secular books and those about Hanukkah and Kwaanza. I will report back.

Cheryl wrote: "I can't even guess why the woman brought her children to the Wampanoag program. I want to respect her point of view, but I don't understand what it is."

It was a farmer's market/free book giveaway but the Wampanoag storyteller was advertised. This woman didn't have to stay. The storyteller said she was free to leave and everyone has free will. My sister and I had both heard of and seen this woman around the neighborhood. She attended the Baptist church but that wasn't really her faith. Her kids went to a Christian school and they discussed at home the true meaning of Christmas- birth of Jesus. That's great if that's what your family believes. My parents certainly TRIED! My brother was even an altar boy at one point and went to a high school affiliated with the Christian Brothers.

However, unlike this mother, my parents allowed us to read, listen, think and learn new ideas. My sister was shocked this mother didn't want her kids to learn about other cultures. I highly doubt that was the first and only time the Wampanoag woman had met with antagonism. Christian has been the default for 400 years. Those Wampanoag who became Christian survived to tell their stories. It's not a coincidence the Mashpee are the most vocal.

I was very excited to see the display in the children's library at the community library today. There is a nice display: 1 seasonal picture book, one shared meal picture book, one Black Lives Matter picture book, one Latino picture book, a picture book about being a good neighbor, an animal book, an inclusive "my body" book for tweens and a longer picture book Stolen Science: Thirteen Untold Stories of Scientists and Inventors Almost Written out of History! These books reflect the community. There were also books for parents placed on the wall out of the line of sight of young children- and short adults like me. I did see them though when I looked up.

Another display had more diverse monthly reads including
Ruby's Reunion Day Dinner and Niki Nakayama: A Chef's Tale in 13 Bites

They also have Stamped (For Kids): Racism, Antiracism, and You on display.

I wanted to read them all but it was too cold to sit outside and the children were just getting out of school. I had to rush home before it got too dark and extra cold for walking. I'm waiting on one book to come in and when I go back, I'll pick up some books to check out. I have too many already and don't want to lose any.

Sounds like your library is on the ball; I love that set of displayed books.

The library I walk to is part of a citywide branch system focusing on the community. The diverse books reflect the community. AND they're selling "I Read Banned Books" t-shirts as a fundraiser. I bought one and hope they contintue to purchase books that are relevant for today's readers.

Unfortunately, many parents continue to try to dictate what the public libraries can have on their shelves. Another public library, Pottawatomie Wabaunsee Regional Library in Kansas, faces closure because they refuse to remove diverse books- LGBTQ books and any books that dealt with racial issues or sexual issues. The library also refused to add a morals clause to their lease.

The clause would’ve stipulated that the library not “supply, distribute, loan, encourage, or coerce acceptance of or approval of explicit sexual or racially or socially divisive material, or events (such as ‘drag queen story hours’) that support the LGBTQ+ or critical theory ideology or practice.”

City commissioners have discussed creating their own city library, one without “divisive material."

https://kansasreflector.com/2022/11/1...

This is so sad on many levels. From the comments in the article, I gather this is a tiny library serving families in the community and many have nowhere else to go for recreation.

Cheryl wrote: "One reader, a former librarian, is a devout Christian and feels that Pagans and others are given deference and preference over Christians. And that there is too much secularism: for example, she kn..."

I was not referencing library collections, because our library system does have books, movies, etc. for everyone.
I was referencing programming, specifically, children's programming.
I misunderstood QNPoohBear, because I thought she was speaking about a library program. But in message #16, she indicates that the incident took place at a farmer's market, a completely different venue.

QNPoohBear wrote: "The library I walk to is part of a citywide branch system focusing on the community. The diverse books reflect the community. AND they're selling "I Read Banned Books" t-shirts as a fundraiser. I b..."

So basically any books that include non WASP characters this library should not be allowed to have on its shelves? Honestly, it really becomes almost impossible to remain respectful and to not use words considered inflammatory when faced with that kind of dangerous ignorance.

Not sure if this fits here, but I would like to do a positive call out for Lakota author Virginia Driving Hawk Sneve, who has some delightful children's books where she combines multiple traditions and celebrates them equally.

And because her work is not that well known, I will post my review for The Trickster and the Troll here and to very strongly and warmly recommend it.

In The Trickster and the Troll, Lakota author Virginia Driving Hawk Sneve presents a textually delightful imagined encounter between two well-known trickster figures, between the Sioux Iktomi and the Norwegian Troll. And with The Trickster and the Troll Virginia Driving Hawk Sneve draws on her own tribal heritage for the character of Iktomi and her husband's Scandinavian cultural background for the Troll character, with Driving Hawk Sneve explaining in her author's note that the idea for The Trickster and the Troll came from this dual cultural heritage of her children (and she then goes on to explain the nature of the Sioux trickster and the Norwegian Troll and that the stories about and of them are in fact pretty similar in nature and in tone). For generally, both Iktomi and Troll are portrayed in the tales that feature them as mischievous, cruel, helpful or kind, and as trickster figures not generally ever learning all that much from their misadventures, from their mistakes, that both Iktomi and Troll are well loved and appreciated characters in both Sioux and Norwegian culture and tradition, that the tales of Iktomi and of Troll are often (were often) told to children by parents or elders as entertainment as well as teaching tools, and that for Virginia Driving Hawk Sneve, creating a story featuring both Iktomi and Troll thus totally makes sense and also honours both Sioux and Norwegian folklore and tradition.

Now I really have enjoyed The Trickster and the Troll as a story in and of itself, and I also appreciate that Virginia Driving Hawk Sneve makes the encounter between Iktomi and Troll believable, makes it an actual possibility, with Iktomi meeting Troll when Troll comes to America with his Norwegian family (who are of course settlers). And after a confrontational first contact in The Trickster and the Troll (and which definitely makes sense for two trickster like characters), Iktomi and Troll soon begin to find qualities of value in the other, and realise that they are so very similar in temperament that in fact they become friends and colleagues as they both try to relocate their cultural groups (as both have become separated from them both physically and culturally, Iktomi from the Sioux and Troll from his Norwegian family and their equally Norwegian neighbours).

Showing how with the opening of the West, the Sioux and other Native American tribes suffered and found life increasingly difficult with European settlers setting up farms and the buffalos disappearing, The Trickster and the Troll also has Virginia Driving Hawk Sneve demonstrating that life for many of the European newcomers was hard as well, having to adjust to new ways and to also often be forced to or feel obligated to abandon their cultural traditions, their languages and indeed also their stories and the characters of their their tales to become generically American (like Troll is left behind). And while by the end of The Trickster and the Troll both Iktomi and Troll do manage to locate people from their perspective cultures who wish to relearn about their heritage and background, in many ways the ending for The Trickster and the Troll is rather bittersweet, as there is a clear point made in Virginia Driving Hawk Sneve's text that only a few individuals from either Iktomi's and Troll's people really do want to welcome them back, that the impact of the settlement has lastingly and permanently affected both Native Americans and the immigrants themselves (and that one of the main casualties is the loss of traditional storytelling, and cultural icons like Itomi and Troll).

Beverly wrote: "movies, etc. for everyone.
I was referencing programming, specifically, children's programming.
I misunderstood QNPoohBear, because I thought she was speaking about a library program. But in message #16, she indicates that the incident took place at a farmer's market, a completely different venue.

..."

The library sponsored the farmer's market and hosted a non-profit giving books out for free and the storyteller. The library is on Wampanoag land. Why shouldn't the library invite someone to tell the story of the people who lived on the land long before any of our ancestors arrived. The point wasn't to push a religious viewpoint but to share a story from the indigenous culture. We have a billion Portuguese festivals and every church has a nativity festival, everyone visits La Salette Shrine to see the lights.
The library doesn't need to have a nativity story time!

Grandparents and parents can share their family traditions - religious or secular or both with their family. That's a very personal thing. Library programs are for broadening minds, taking people to new places and being a good community partner. It takes all kinds of people to make the world go 'round.

I stopped at our city library today and the display was "Fun with Food" and contained a variety of books focusing on cooking, mostly cookbooks, including some for children. Since the intention of these displays is to get patrons to check-out the books I realize, in light of our discussion here, that what is on display at any given time may not necessarily be what the librarian originally displayed or reflective of their "top choices" so I think that's something to keep in mind, especially with regard to holiday displays, that perhaps some of the better offerings are already picked over by the time one sees a holiday display. The Christmas books over in the picture book section were almost completely wiped out -- I saw well over 100 books there last month and I think only about ten were there today. So, I'm wondering if they will even do a Christmas book display.
I'll see what the local branch of our county library has on display next time I go in, but probably won't be for another week or so as I'm not planning to go there during Thanksgiving week.

Good point. What we see on display isn't necessarily the librarian's a set of their first choices because, of course, browsers will check out the most appealing (to them) books.

Sometimes I think it would be better to do an opposite theme: display Christmas books in June, back to school books in April, etc. But that's just me being weird.

I absolutely do not believe in book banning, but yes, if I were teaching units on Native Americans or First Nations at school, I would try to primarily make use of books penned by Native American or First Nations authors, and I would totally stay away from books where ethnic stereotypes are being promoted (even if inadvertently). So yes, a novel like Tanya Landman's I Am Apache (which has been roundly condemned by both Beverly Slapin and Debbie Reese and does indeed focus only on violence and trying to make the Apache appear as bloodthirsty, vengeful and warrior like and nothing else) would definitely NOT be covered by me in class (although I would also not have an issue with my students reading I Am Apache but that if they mentioned the novel in class, I would meticulously dissect for them and with them all of the issues I have found and that Slapin and Reese have found).

That's always the difficulty. How do we help children learn what has been condemned, and why, whilst still allowing them access to it? And as you say, we must be prepared to show them our perspective, our values, what we know from other sources... even while not censoring their reading.

It's easy, relatively speaking, to 'protect' our children from the 'wrong' sorts of knowledge. What we as adults who want them to grow up healthy & wise must do is harder. We must teach them All the Truths, and explore with them our own choices. Otherwise, they'll grow up in the world unprepared to understand their place in it and unable to make those healthy and wise choices that we want them to.

Cheryl wrote: "That's always the difficulty. How do we help children learn what has been condemned, and why, whilst still allowing them access to it? And as you say, we must be prepared to show them our perspecti..."

I understand that Debbie Reese and Beverly Slapin do not want books they consider bigoted and disrespectful towards Native Americas and First Nations used in classrooms, but for me, books like that could be used as negative examples.

I think they're concerned that any actual Native children might feel assaulted by them. And some other kids will be contrary and mean, because kids can be that way.

But you have a good point. When a controversial book is used in a classroom, both positive and negative reasons for using it could be discussed.

Btw, Beverly Slapin is an author, not just an activist. Her books include Through Indian Eyes: The Native Experience in Books for Children.

Cheryl wrote: "I think they're concerned that any actual Native children might feel assaulted by them. And some other kids will be contrary and mean, because kids can be that way.

But you have a good point. Whe..."

I do understand the hesitancy, as well, someone might also use these types of books not as negative examples but as positive ones or not be critical enough for someone like Slapin or Reese.

Lots going on this week in book censorship. Here's one for Beverly, yes Bible storytimes are allowed in the public library.
The Daily Wire: 'Pastor Story Hour': Ministers Take Bible-Based Picture Books To Local Libraries Amid 'Drag Queen Story Hour' Craze.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/pastor...

The Patmos Library is Jamestown, MI is slated to close in two years in September 2024 because they refuse to ban LGBTQ books. 4 books! It was FOUR books and that was enough to get residents fired up and vote to defund the library. Library advocates say the library was a victim of lies and misinformation. This is just so sad and it breaks my heart for all the people, especially children and low income community residents, who have nowhere else to get information, gather as a community and enjoy the space.

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapi...

I purchased an "I read banned books" shirt from the local community library I walk to. I was super excited to see they were fundraising with one.

Cheryl
Most of the bans in Oklahoma are by school district so far.

Gundula thought Property of the Rebel Librarian was unrealistic because one parent had all that power but here we see a real life example.

It Only Takes One Parent to Get All The Graphic Novels Removed From a School Library.

In Owasso, Oklahoma the school district has recalled 3,000 graphic novels from its library system after one parent had an issue with one title his daughter checked out from the school library over the summer.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5vnq...

That's INSANE! That's all the books tweens and teens like to read. Way to go. Teach kids that books are boring and not relevant to them and you'll end up with an illiterate population unprepared for adult lives.

I assume that if a child brings a so-called obscene book to school and word gets out, the parents could be charged with a crime if that state has such a law. In the case of books being banned from school libraries, that also applies to the classroom library. Students in older grades don't get unstructured reading time but I have seen kids bring books to read on the school bus on the way to/from a field trip. I have read that parents are grooming their kids to be spies and look for specific books that the Moms for Liberty groups find objectionable and report them. As yet, no parent has been charged with a crime for providing a book to a minor but librarians and teachers have come under fire. Look in the thread on banned books to see what happened to the teacher in Norman,OK who shared a QR code to the Brooklyn Public Library's "Unbanned" library shelf.

QNPoohBear wrote: "I assume that if a child brings a so-called obscene book to school and word gets out, the parents could be charged with a crime if that state has such a law. In the case of books being banned from ..."

I would definitely bring banned books to school and take any punishment gladly. It would be great if there was a major uprising against book banning from students both against the authorities but also against the parents who often create these messes.

Removed inflammatory comments.

A point was made that there should be a way to verify that the complainants actually know what they're talking about, have read the books in question, and they're not just following rumors or some leader.

Yes, for me, any complaints need to be made by individuals who have read the book or books in question, and that just counting words they find or might find offensive should not count as having read a book. And for me, if someone reads about half a book and considers it unacceptable that should count as long as the complainer can provide a real and acceptable argument why.

Technically, the parents are supposed to fill out a form stating their reasons for wanting the book removed from the library. However, a lot of pressure is coming from politicians and the government. When the states pass laws prohibiting giving certain content to minors, the books then must be pulled from the library for review. In Florida they're forming special committees to review the books and choose what is appropriate. These committees are comprised of parents in Moms for Liberty and similar organizing, negating the role of and undermining the teachers and librarians trained to know what books are developmentally appropriate for their students.

I do see why parents complain about some of the adult books but teens see and hear worse on the internet and TV all the time. Students also need to be able to read and think critically to prepare them for the real world. Labeling ALL LGBTQ+ obscene is ridiculous though. If they bothered to look through them, they'd see books like Daddy & Dada actually do not show pictures of two men in bed together. It shows pictures of a happy loving family and trying to ban it is just plain silly.

I read many of the adult books in junior high and high school. My parents trusted my teachers and were happy I was in advanced classes getting a good education.

Essentially books have become politicized which does a great disservice to the children.

QNPoohBear wrote: "Technically, the parents are supposed to fill out a form stating their reasons for wanting the book removed from the library. However, a lot of pressure is coming from politicians and the governmen..."

And that is something I have NEVER understood regarding USA culture etc. Guns are seen as some symbol of liberty, and overt violence is somehow often considered much more acceptable and tolerable in books, movies and the like than off colour wods, nudity and sexuality, when in my opinion, this should totally be the other way around.

Not sure if this article by Constance Grady fits in this thread or in the history of book banning section.

BEGIN ARTICLE It seems as though every few years, a new wave of panic sweeps across America about the books being taught in schools. They are too conservative, or too liberal; they’re being suppressed, or they’re dangerous; they’re pushing an agenda; attention must be paid. This winter sees America in the grips of the latest version of this story, with conservative-driven school book bannings heating up across the country. And experts say there’s a special virulence to this particular wave."

In Tennessee, a school board yanked Art Spiegelman’s graphic Holocaust memoir Maus from the eighth grade curriculum. Last fall, a Texas legislator launched an investigation into 850 books he argued “might make students feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress because of their race or sex,” including The Legal Atlas of the United States and Shirley Jackson’s “The Lottery.” In December, a Pennsylvania school district removed the LGBTQ classic Heather Has Two Mommies from school libraries.

“There’s definitely a major upsurge” in school book bannings, says Suzanne Nossel, CEO of the free speech organization PEN America. “Normally we hear about a few a year. We would write a letter to the school board or the library asking that the book be restored, and very often that would happen.”


In contrast, Nossel says, this year she finds herself hearing from different authors by the day about their books being banned. And the bans, too, are much more forceful than they’ve been before. “Some are an individual school board deciding to pull something from a curriculum or take it out of the library,” she says. “But there are also much more sweeping pieces of legislation that are being introduced that purport to ban whole categories of books. And that’s definitely something new.”

While the extremes to which the most recent book bannings go are new, the pattern they follow is not. Adam Laats, a historian who studies the history of American education, sees our current trend of banned books as being rooted in a backlash that emerged in the US in the 20th century. That backlash, he says, was against “a specific kind of content, seen as teaching children, especially white children, that there’s something wrong with America.”

Looking at the school book bannings of the 1930s against the bannings of the 2020s can show us how history repeats itself — even when we attempt to bury our history.

“Was this country founded on liberty? This is a fundamental question.”

In the 1920s, Harold Rugg, a former civil engineer turned educational reformer, put together a highly respected line of social science textbooks. “Lively and readable, they are the most popular books of their kind, have sold some 2,000,000 copies, are used in 4,000 U. S. schools,” Time magazine reported in 1940. It added ominously: “But recently the heat has been turned on.”

“They were intended to be a more progressive take on American society,” Laats says. “The banning of those books is almost creepily familiar compared to today.”
Rugg’s textbooks brought a Depression-era sense of class consciousness to their account of American history. They asked pointed questions about how class inequality persisted so sternly across the US, and whether America really was, as advertised, the land of opportunity.

For some objectors, these were questions no one had any business asking America’s children: They were un-American, subversive, and potentially Communist. As a jingoistic patriotism spread across the country in the lead-up to World War II, school boards, facing a wave of anti-Rugg sentiment, banned and even burned copies of the textbooks.

“They went from being one of the most commonly used books in schools to becoming unfindable,” says Laats.
Rugg’s class-conscious American history didn’t emerge all on its own. It was part of a larger shift in the way the country was beginning to think about itself, says education historian Jonathan Zimmerman.

“In the early 20th century, the history profession, well, it professionalized,” says Zimmerman. “People got PhDs, they went to Germany, they learned how to do archival research. And they started to ask some different and hard questions. If the American Revolution is a fight for freedom, why are there 4 million enslaved people? Why would a third of white people be Tories and go to Canada? Some of that critique started to get into textbooks, and there was this huge backlash.”

The challenges to books that questioned America’s narrative of ideological innocence and purity didn’t only come from reactionary WASPs. “German Americans, Polish Americans, Jewish Americans, and African Americans, they are the ones that kept this out,” says Zimmerman. Groups that were in the process of clawing their way into being included in the American founding myth, after all, had a vested interest in keeping that myth going, the better to access the social capital that came with it.

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Why book banning is back

“If you diminish the revolution, in their minds, you’re diminishing their respective contributions to it,” says Zimmerman.

By and large, those groups were successful. Over the course of the 20th century, the great founding myth of America has found room to include and celebrate the contributions of all sorts of groups — not just the founders, but also immigrants and women and foreign allies and people of color. But Zimmerman argues that this inclusion has by and large happened uncritically. “You put all these new groups into the story, but the title of the book is still Quest for Liberty: Rise of the American Nation,” he says.

Zimmerman argues that the most recent slew of conservative book bans is responding to a real change in the way American history is taught. That change was most famously codified by The 1619 Project, a New York Times essay series spearheaded by Nikole Hannah-Jones that reframes the American story as one beginning in 1619, when the first slave ships came to America. And this new narrative, like Ruggs’s book before it, challenges a heroic narrative of liberty and freedom in which anyone might want to be included.

“The 1619 Project is not a demand for inclusion. It isn’t,” says Zimmerman. “I mean, it’s not against inclusion, of course; those people want inclusion, but that’s not the point. It says, Okay, when we do start including, what happens to that big story? Is it a quest for liberty? Was this country founded on liberty? This is a fundamental question.”

“With the 1619 Project,” says Laats, “the core of the controversy is roughly: Is history the celebration of the founding fathers? Or is history a celebration of a broader root of freedom fighters, especially including enslaved people and Indigenous people as the true freedom fighters?” The question at stake is, Laats argues: Who are we as Americans?

“A co-option of the winning terms by the losing side”
One of the oddities of this recent round of book bannings is that it comes just after a long, outraged news cycle of conservatives arguing that the left had become too censorious, with calls to remove classics like The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn from school curricula and Little House on the Prairie author Laura Ingalls Wilder’s name stripped from a children’s literature award. This conversation arguably reached its peak just last year when publishers faced furious backlash from the right after sending two Dr. Seuss books out of print because of their racist imagery.

“The cancel culture is canceling Dr. Seuss,” declared Fox & Friends host Brian Kilmeade in March 2021.

The disconnect between last year’s outrage and this year’s is striking.

“If you don’t like cancel culture, so-called; if you don’t like Twitter mobs; if you don’t like protesters on campus who reject conservative speakers; that’s one thing,” says PEN’s Nossel. “But to respond to that with legislative bans on curriculum with prohibitions on certain books and ideas in the classroom is to introduce a cure that’s far worse than any disease. If you put threats to free speech in a hierarchy, there’s just no question that legislative bans based on viewpoint and ideology are at the top of the list.”

Laats argues that this sort of abrupt about-face from the right, too, is part of a larger historical pattern.

“The 20th-century pattern is pretty clear, if you take the 100-year perspective,” Laats says. “There has been progress on racial issues. It might feel depressingly stuck, but if you compare it to 1922 or even 1962, there has been progress. Same with LGBTQ rights. The difference is enormous. And with every stage of this broadening of who is considered a true American, there’s been a co-option of the winning terms by the losing side.” The anti-abortion movement is met by the pro-abortion movement; the LGBTQ rights movement on the left is met with claims of religious persecution from the right.

Laats points to Dinesh D’Souza and William F. Buckley as “masters” of this strategy. “It’s this style of conservatism that is intimately familiar with more progressive attitudes in society, in a way that more progressive pundits tend not to be as familiar with conservative ideas,” he says. “Because progressive ideas — though it might not feel like it, especially not for the last presidency — progressive ideas have become more and more dominant.”

Zimmerman and Nossel both say that conservatives’ success at banning books from schools should demonstrate that the left had become too willing to censor over the past decade.
“What I worry about is that free speech is losing its moorings on both the left and the right,” says Nossel.

“I‘m not equating the two, because this has the teeth of law, what we’re talking about now,” says Zimmerman. “A state legislature passing laws that you can’t make kids feel uncomfortable is different from Dr. Seuss getting a couple books taken off the internet.” But, he adds, there is enough of a continuity between the two cases on principle that he feels the left has put itself in a difficult strategic position. “You cannot protect Beloved if you’re purging Huck Finn,” he says.

Zimmerman says he still thinks it’s reasonable for citizens to respond to the books that are taught in schools, and even to protest them in certain cases.

“In the 1960s, there were history textbooks in this country, including in the North, that still described slavery as a mostly beneficent institution devised by benevolent white people to civilize savage Africans,” says Zimmerman. “You know why it changed? Because the NAACP and the Urban League created textbook committees that went into school boards and demanded that racist textbooks not be used.”

Zimmerman suggests that objecting to a book because of its potential to harm students, which is a subjective measure, is less effective than objecting to a book because of its untruthfulness. “Of course [the textbook committees] said the books were racist, because they were,” he says. “But they also said that they were false, which they were. To me, that’s a much more appropriate line of argument in these discussions.”

Laats argues that no matter what strategy liberals take, it’s unlikely people will stop arguing about the books we use in schools anytime soon.
“Whoever gets to control what kids are reading gets to control the definition of, quote-unquote, the real America,” he says. “That resonates with a lot of people.” END OF ARTICLE

Since most of this discussion revolves around censoring minority voices in the south and midwest, I thought I'd post an opinion piece I saw coming from the cancel culture in the UK, actually. The whole article is behind a paywall but here's what I got- Gen. Z want to cancel fairy tales.

"The under-30s say that traditional fairy tales are problematic, sexist and upsetting.

Traditional fairy tales may soon be on their way out. According to a new survey, the under-30s – aka Generation Z – consider them to be deeply problematic, sexist and offensive. The most upsetting fairy tale, in their view, is Hansel and Gretel, followed by Little Red Riding Hood...."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnist...

Apparently this column is a response to a poll which shows 41 percent of 18–29-year-olds insist some of these [classic fairy tales] are inappropriate.

"In fact, as many as 90 percent of younger Brits reckon many are old fashioned and outdated, while 89 percent believe they perpetuate outdated gender stereotypes, and 77 percent said many of them were sexist.
46 percent deemed Hansel and Gretel the most inappropriate, followed by Little Red Riding Hood (28 percent) and Rumpelstiltskin (25 percent)

The Snow Queen (13 percent), The Three Little Pigs (12 percent) and Beauty and the Beast (11 percent) were also viewed as having a sinister side, according to the Gen Z’s who took part in the survey."
https://yorkshiretimes.co.uk/article/...

It's my understanding, and those of you who have read more fairy tales than I have can elaborate, is that these tales were folk tales and not specifically stories for children. They often contained some kind of warning, sometimes about men. Victorian parents were horrified by the scary and dark stories first published in English. The stories have been santized each generation since then and most kids only know the Disney versions which are a far cry from the original tales.

I don't think fairy tales in general need to be cancelled but some of the older Disney movies need a little context.

My oldest niece was a raging girly girl fairies, princess, ballerinas and Disney movies from 2-8. At 8 she decided Disney movies were cheesy and she only liked warrior princesses. She's now the anti-fairy tale girl. I think kids can still enjoy hearing fairy tales just the same as we all did/do and they'll internalize what they can and then learn more about the world as they get older and figure things out for themselves as my niece did. She absorbed more messages about her family's values than she did "someday my prince will come."

QNPoohBear wrote: "Since most of this discussion revolves around censoring minority voices in the south and midwest, I thought I'd post an opinion piece I saw coming from the cancel culture in the UK, actually. The w..."

Honestly, if you find fairy tales sexist and old fashioned, do not read them, but to want them cancelled is ridiculous.

QNPoohBear wrote: "Since most of this discussion revolves around censoring minority voices in the south and midwest, I thought I'd post an opinion piece I saw coming from the cancel culture in the UK, actually. The w..."

Exactly, the Grimms 1812 edition was much more violent than the sanitized 1857 edition and the Disney versions are even worse and also have female characters much less active than in many of the tales.

Kudos to Hamiltonians! When a bunch of hate-mongers tried to disrupt a Drag Queen Story Time at the public library, they were shouted down by supporters and now the event is more popular than ever and supporters are also volunteering to keep the space safe from the protesters who basically had to leave with their proverbial tails between their legs.

Manybooks wrote: "Kudos to Hamiltonians! When a bunch of hate-mongers tried to disrupt a Drag Queen Story Time at the public library, they were shouted down by supporters and now the event is more popular than ever ..."

That's wonderful! Some really hateful Neo-Nazis interrupted a drag queen story hour near my neighborhood and people were very scared. The police were called but this hate group persists. I don't understand why people don't think the library doesn't vet the people who do library programs, especially for children! I had to jump through hoops to get a background check done just to give museum tours!

Just because someone doesn't approve of someone's lifestyle choice or how they were born doesn't give them the right to be hateful and rude.

QNPoohBear wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Kudos to Hamiltonians! When a bunch of hate-mongers tried to disrupt a Drag Queen Story Time at the public library, they were shouted down by supporters and now the event is more ..."

You know, there seems to be some kind of free for all acceptance for all kinds of hateful and scary protesting in much of the United States and also certain parts of Canada as being freedom of expression, yet, banning and censoring books seems to be alright.

Manybooks wrote: "
You know, there seems to be some kind of free for all acceptance for all kinds of hateful and scary protesting in much of the United States and also certain parts of Canada as being freedom of expression, yet, banning and censoring books seems to be alright.."

Yes and they argue that they're not banning books, they're not in favor of censorship but they're trying to protect children from filth. Who decides what is obscene?

Once again, children's picture books about families are about families. Period. end of story. They're not about who goes to bed with whom. There are all kinds of families these days for whatever reason and children deserve to see themselves represented. Banning books like Daddy & Dada, Mommy, Mama, and Me, And Tango Makes Three is just hateful, pure and simple.

They also say they're protecting children, keeping them innocent keeping them from learning about things that are "divisive concepts" they don't need to know about and keeping children from being emotionally and mentally harmed by preventing them from learning the truth about American history. Then they claim these books are teaching children to hate America and therefore they must keep these books out of the hands of impressionable children. Thus creating a culture of intolerance because their children aren't learning about other people different from them and the parents aren't reading these books to their kids either. They should. They'd learn something and maybe learn empathy and kindness in the bargain.

QNPoohBear wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "
You know, there seems to be some kind of free for all acceptance for all kinds of hateful and scary protesting in much of the United States and also certain parts of Canada as be..."

Oh yeah, keeping children ignorant is protecting them. And keeping books featuring diverse characters out of classrooms that are diverse does oh so much good, sigh.

And as soon as these artificially coddled students get to college and university and take a history, a politics or a literature course, they cannot handle even remotely any kind of controversy covered in class.

Manybooks wrote: "
And as soon as these artificially coddled students get to college and university and take a history, a politics or a literature course, they cannot handle even remotely any kind of controversy covered in class.."

Or even get to college because they aren't prepared for the AP exam or anything. The students are aware of this in many cases. Some have hired the ACLU to fight for their right to an education. I don't see how protecting them is going to raise test scores and get the kids a good education, especially in Florida where the schools are notoriously underperforming. At the very least, high schoolers studying at the college prep level should be exempt from this nonsense or they risk falling behind their peers. The littles should be taught how to read and think critically about what they're reading. Obviously if the books are going to be triggers for certain individuals then they shoud be given an alternate assignment but a blanket ban doesn't help anyone in the long run.

Manybooks wrote: "Yup, but sadly, there are also "parents" who want to censor and ban what is being read at university and if that happens, freedom will truly be dead.."

There's hope. A judge in Florida struck down Gov. DeSantis's "Stop-W.O.K.E" law for colleges.

The bill prohibits schools and workplaces from any instruction that suggests that any individual, by virtue of their race, color, sex or national origin, "bears responsibility for and must feel guilt, anguish or other forms of psychological distress" on account of historical acts of racism. The bill also forbids education or training that says individuals are "privileged or oppressed" due to their race or sex.

"The State of Florida's decision to choose which viewpoints are worthy of illumination and which must remain in the shadows has implications for us all," Walker wrote. "But the First Amendment does not permit the State of Florida to muzzle its university professors, impose its own orthodoxy of viewpoints, and cast us all into the dark."

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/18/113783...

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11...