Into the Forest discussion

Here is the place to discuss retellings, traditional tales, or books inspired by the mythology, folklore, or fairy tales with the theme Crone!

Looking forward to recommendation about the prompts!

Here is a list of books I read recently that could fit this prompt:

The Wolf and the Woodsman
The Book of Gothel
The Binding
The Manningtree Witches

Ooh, I've added Book of Gothel to my list. It's not too hard for the squeamish to read, is it?

Cheryl wrote: "Ooh, I've added Book of Gothel to my list. It's not too hard for the squeamish to read, is it?"

I don't remember any gruesome scenes...

Thanks!

So, for the purposes of this challenge, what is a Crone? And, what is the difference between a crone and a witch?

I would say a crone can be a witch but a witch doesn't have to be a crone. Crones are older women who sometimes serve as a wicked plot device to subvert the hero's quest, or they set tasks and dole out rewards or punishments, and in myth they can be an archetype of wisdom.

Witches can be any age.

Does that make sense? All the crone examples I can think of are also witches though--Baba Yaga, the witch in Hansel and Gretel, etc.

I guess Crone could be more inspired by goddess influences than pure witch- so Kali, Morrigan, Cailleach, Baba Yaga, Hecate, Hella, etc.

I also think Hagitude by Sharon Blackie would be a pretty ultimate Crone choice.

Oh, so like the Crone would be the beggar at the well or on the side of the road, and the youngest son is the one who shares his bread with, so she gives him advice and maybe an amulet or device.

Or the Crone could be a more minor witch, an herbalist perhaps.

The Witch is more likely to be a character our hero spends time with, either trying to get help from or getting seduced by or learning how to defeat with work and trained skill, not just a magic comb. They often use Glamour to seem more young, but they're probably immortal.

IMO, a witch grows to be a crone. I'm a crone. LOL

But the examples given above are classic.
I need to give this a think.

Tina wrote: "IMO, a witch grows to be a crone. I'm a crone. LOL

But the examples given above are classic.
I need to give this a think."

Yay for crones! :)

Cheryl wrote: "Oh, so like the Crone would be the beggar at the well or on the side of the road, and the youngest son is the one who shares his bread with, so she gives him advice and maybe an amulet or device.
..."

Yes!

Here are some of the crone books I have shelved! Minus the ones Andy mentioned. We seem to read similar books. :) I wish more retellings were published from older povs.

The Hearing Trumpet by Leonora Carrington

Sacred Wilderness by Susan Power

Baba Yaga Laid an Egg by Dubravka Ugrešić

Baba Yaga's Assistant by Marika McCoola

Two Old Women: An Alaskan Legend of Betrayal, Courage and Survival by Velma Wallis

The Witch and the Tsar is a Baba Yaga retelling, does it fit? Not sure of the age of the witch in it, I haven't read it!

Andy wrote: "The Witch and the Tsar is a Baba Yaga retelling, does it fit? Not sure of the age of the witch in it, I haven't read it!"
I 'll let you know. I plan to test the waters in January:)

Asaria wrote: "Andy wrote: "The Witch and the Tsar is a Baba Yaga retelling, does it fit? Not sure of the age of the witch in it, I haven't read it!"
I 'll let you know. I plan to test the waters ..."

:D

I love love loved The Hearing Trumpet! It’s so good!
Also Two Old Women: An Alaskan Legend of Betrayal, Courage and Survival and Sacred Wilderness were excellent

Andy wrote: "The Witch and the Tsar is a Baba Yaga retelling, does it fit? Not sure of the age of the witch in it, I haven't read it!"

I have a copy of that, but I never managed to read it, so I don't know!

Except the Queen would fit here

Baba Yaga plays a somewhat important role in The Bear and the Nightingale, if I remember correctly, and I believe she's involved with the subsequent sequels.

I decided to use Nettle & Bone for this prompt because the dust wife is quite crone-like... ;)

Andy wrote: "I decided to use Nettle & Bone for this prompt because the dust wife is quite crone-like... ;)"

That's perfect!

I read The Book of Gothel and really enjoyed it! I liked that it was more of a prequel than a retelling of Rapunzel. I thought it was a quiet, character-driven story and it really drew me in.

Erin wrote: "I read The Book of Gothel and really enjoyed it! I liked that it was more of a prequel than a retelling of Rapunzel. I thought it was a quiet, character-driven story and it really drew me in."

I really loved that one!

Tomorrow I am starting The Witch and the Tsar it's about Baba Yaga & Ivan the Terrible!

Latasha wrote: "Tomorrow I am starting The Witch and the Tsar it's about Baba Yaga & Ivan the Terrible!"

I have a copy of that one but haven't read it yet.

Latasha wrote: "Tomorrow I am starting The Witch and the Tsar it's about Baba Yaga & Ivan the Terrible!"

That looks like something I might like! I still haven’t found anything to read for this category and I like fantasy and fairytale mixed with historical fiction. I also like the fact that the author is Russian

Erin wrote: "I read The Book of Gothel and really enjoyed it! I liked that it was more of a prequel than a retelling of Rapunzel. I thought it was a quiet, character-driven story and it really drew me in."
That one looks great too! Unfortunately my library only has it as an ebook and I prefer physical books

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Here's the buddy read if anyone wants to join. I just started today and the lady I'm reading with isn't very far into it either.

I think I'll also use The Weaver and the Witch Queen for this prompt - I am just a few chapters in but I am enjoying it! It comes out later this month.

Another book that would definitely fit this prompt is Bless Me, Ultima. I’m kind of hesitant to recommend it here because we had a group read for it a few years ago and a lot of the group members here didn't like it. However I know I’m not the only person who loves it because it’s a critically acclaimed classic and I know many people who love it.

Andy wrote: "I think I'll also use The Weaver and the Witch Queen for this prompt - I am just a few chapters in but I am enjoying it! It comes out later this month."

I have that one! Let me know if it's good! I actually was iffy on her first book (I . . . kept falling asleep while reading it, lol).

Margaret wrote: "Andy wrote: "I think I'll also use The Weaver and the Witch Queen for this prompt - I am just a few chapters in but I am enjoying it! It comes out later this month."

I have that one! Let me know if it's good! I actually was iffy on her first book (I . . . kept falling asleep while reading it, lol)."

Oh no! :P I am liking the book quite a lot - it's historical fantasy with relatively little magic. But then, I loved The Witch's Heart, the motherhood theme really spoke to me, and I liked the banter with Loki.
If anything the new one is a little bit slower, so you might not like it, if you found the other one boring...

I typically love motherhood themes, but I just could not get into The Witch's Heart!

Latasha wrote: "Tomorrow I am starting The Witch and the Tsar it's about Baba Yaga & Ivan the Terrible!"

How are you liking this Latasha? I just started today and I’m somewhat disappointed by the fact that the lead character, although immortal is forever 30. Maybe I’m being over sensitive, but I’d like to read a novel where the lead character is actually older and still portrayed as an intelligent and strong woman.
However if it’s otherwise a good book I still might read if

When I looked up fantasy novels with “older” female characters
The Adventures of Amina al-Sirafi came up.
Has anyone read this and confirmed it’s true?

Jalilah wrote: "When I looked up fantasy novels with “older” female characters
The Adventures of Amina al-Sirafi came up.
Has anyone read this and confirmed it’s true?"

She's in her 40s. A mother. I wouldn't call her a crone though! You will LOVE the book.

Margaret wrote: "Jalilah wrote: "When I looked up fantasy novels with “older” female characters
The Adventures of Amina al-Sirafi came up.
Has anyone read this and confirmed it’s true?"

She's in ..."

That’s what I suspected. The question was on Reddit and the person suggesting it was probably in their 20s. 🤣

It’s actually not easy finding lead characters who are 60+.
Especially in speculative fiction the lead characters are almost in their 20s

Even a book I suggested above Except the Queen the characters are not really old. Like in Howl’s Moving Castle, which I also loved, they are turned “old” through a spell.

I definitely will read The Adventures of Amina al-Sirafi, as both you and Melanie liked it, but just not for this challenge.

Ursula K. Le Guin has any novels with mature crone or wise women like characters?

The Hearing Trumpet, Two Old Women: An Alaskan Legend of Betrayal, Courage and Survival and Sacred Wilderness are really exceptional in this sense, as well as Bless Me, Ultima, although the main character and narrator is a man recounting his childhood

Remnant Population by Elizabeth Moon tools interesting but would the character also be considered a crone

Jalilah wrote: "Ursula K. Le Guin has any novels with mature crone or wise women like characters? ..."

Not the ones I've read.

Jalilah - I'll be reading Remnant Population for Crone. The main character is definitely older - 70-ish?

Ozsaur wrote: "Jalilah - I'll be reading Remnant Population for Crone. The main character is definitely older - 70-ish?"

That’s what I thought! I think this is what I will read! It’s also classified as “solar punk “ which also intrigues me.
My library only has it as an ebook so I had to order it as an inter library loan. Otherwise I’d suggest a buddy read, but I have no idea how long it will take for the book to arrive

Jalilah wrote: That’s what I thought! I think this is what I will read! It’s also classified as “solar punk “ which also intrigues me.

Solar punk, interesting! I never thought of that, but it could fit.

And if you still want to discuss Remnant Population after you read it, I'm up for it!

Ozsaur wrote: "Jalilah wrote: That’s what I thought! I think this is what I will read! It’s also classified as “solar punk “ which also intrigues me.

Solar punk, interesting! I never thought of that, but it coul..."


I gave in and ordered my own copy of Remnant Population from my bookstore. Inter library loans can be so unpredictable. If you’d like to read it as a buddy read just let me know when and I’ll set up a thread. If not, that’s cool too we can still discuss it!

I read VenCo for the witches prompt but I think it would count for this one too

Jalilah, as soon as you finish reading it, you can post a thread. I'd love to discuss it! But no rush, I know how demanding a TBR pile can be.

Ozsaur wrote: "Jalilah, as soon as you finish reading it, you can post a thread. I'd love to discuss it! But no rush, I know how demanding a TBR pile can be."

Usually we set up threads before we read so we can talk about them while we are reading, but either way I’ll set a a thread. Who knows? Maybe others will want to read it too

Jalilah wrote: I’ll set a a thread. Who knows? Maybe others will want to read it too

I hope so, I think it could lead to a lot of interesting discussion.

I can join in! My reading is a lot more flexible nowadays. :)

That would be great, Margaret!

Ozsaur wrote: "That would be great, Margaret!"

Margaret wrote: "I can join in! My reading is a lot more flexible nowadays. :)"

Yes! I’ve got 2 library books to finish first then we could start!
Is mid-august good?

Mid-August is good for me!