Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

Our first nonfiction read for 2023 is The Expedition of the Donner Party and Its Tragic Fate by Eliza Poor Donner Houghton. The book will provide a look into the Donner Party's journey and what happened to them as written by one of their own. Eliza Poor Donner Houghton was only four years old at the time, but please do not let that discount her telling of the experience. Traumatic events tend to stick out in our memories.

For a brief look into Eliza and the events, check out this article from the National Park Service: https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/eliz...

For a FREE, digital copy of this book and other related items from the Library of Congress: https://www.loc.gov/item/11035962/

I hope those of us who read this book can appreciate and enjoy the learning experience.

I read the article that you have a link for, very interesting short version of what Eliza went through. For the life of me I do not understand why a good standing family would leave a 240-acre farm and orchard in Illinois for a wagon train trip across the US?

Quite an enticing article. I might just look into the free didital copy!

Lesle, I found an article from californiatrailcenter.org that explains at least part of the reason for the families traveling west. https://www.californiatrailcenter.org....

WHO WERE THE DONNER-REEDS?
“I am willing to go & have no doubt it will be an advantage to our children and to us.” – Tamsen Donner, 1846

The Donner-Reed party was formed in the early spring of 1846. Economic difficulties and dreams of Manifest Destiny were contributing factors for most of these travelers in deciding to set out on what would become a challenging voyage.

“We are joined to-day by nine wagons from Illinois, belonging to Mr. Reed and the Messrs. Donner, highly respectable and intelligent gentlemen, with interesting families.” – Edwin Bryant, 1846

The promise of free land and a better climate drew the James Reed and George and Jacob Donner families to travel the California Trail. The Donners were prosperous farmers, and Reed was a successful contractor and furniture maker. Their party included 33 people: 12 men, 5 women, and 16 children.

Samantha, successful is what I took from the article.
To me I would not take my family without knowing the consequences of such a hard journey. Maybe Eliza's father had more faith in who else was going than I would have.

Thanks for the additional link!

16 Children!!

I can't bear to read another account of this horrific event so am going to pass.

That's understandable, Karin.

I cannot get this book. Previously I have read other books about the Donner party though, for example Desperate Passage: The Donner Party's Perilous Journey West by Ethan Rarick which I found to be very good. The subject is not new to me!

Since I CAN get The Indifferent Stars Above: The Harrowing Saga of a Donner Party Bride by Daniel James Brown I might read it instead. It is however not a classic. I've read other books by this contemporary author, and he is good! If I have time I'll pick it up while others read the classic which is the focus of this thread.

I’m going to read this. I love the story and the time period.

Chrissie, if you are interested in reading this, please refer to the initial post in this thread. The link from the Library of Congress includes a free PDF copy of the book that anyone can download and read.

There is also the audio version that Sandy kindly posted.

Of course, feel free to read other books on the topic and still contribute to discussion of the events here. :)

Great, thanks for the info, Sandy. Samantha, the audio version is best for me. I cannot do this book immediately though.

No pressure, Chrissie. Our threads always stay open for discussion.

I started this finally and am not overwhelmed by the writing style. Was hoping for more details of characters and scenery. It is written almost as if it is an outline of the daily events.
They have traveled over 450 miles and have been very lucky so far with the crossing of a river and the meeting up with Indians. They have plenty of supplies to make the Indians happy for the moment. They have not lost many so far as the trail has been kind.

The ones that have read this before I was hoping you can help me through this read as I go.
I am really having a hard time understanding the why of it all with so many women and children. When the Cowboys from South came up with the cattle was men and cattle to their journey to Montana, They did not bring many, if any women for such a dangerous trail.

I am sorry you are alone Lesle! I never read to books at a time. Doing so makes it harder to be engulfed by the story, which is what I am looking for when I read a book. If the book isn't so hot, I might not read it because I do know the author of The Indifferent Stars Above: The Harrowing Saga of a Donner Party Bride,, Daniel James Brown, is very good because I have read him before! Thank you for being the guineapig!

Sandy wrote: "I can vouch for The Eagle's Heart (the FWC novel for January to March)."

I have that one planned to read also!

Chrissie wrote: "I am sorry you are alone Lesle! I never read to books at a time..."

I totally understand Chrissie. I cannot read two at the same time either!

My confusion is not in the telling it is more in the understanding up front to why a Father and Mother would take their children on such an unknown journey.

They have taken the new trail in hopes of shortening their trip by 200 miles. All believed in this unknown man but Mrs Donner had her doubts.
It had taken them 3X's longer so far and by September 9th they were beginning to suffer and encounter their first snow.

Lesle, from my understanding of history, the reason for making that dangerous trek out west was the promise of all the new frontier held. We don't have frontier to strive in reaching today, and I think that makes understanding the logic behind these journeys more difficult.

I get that part of it but not when frail grandma and children are involved.
More like for young men, farmers, cowboys and rangers at the time. Not families. Not when you have all that and more that you leave behind like Mr Donner had. I am not even sure that Mrs Donner agreed at this point.
Sorry this is the part I really do not understand that you would put your family in such an enviroment of weather, shortages of food and water, and predators whether animal or human for a dream.

I agree, Lesle. I’ve not started reading this yet but from what I know of the story, the Donner family had a thriving farm that they left behind. Some people always want more I suppose. I also suppose that Mr Donner (god) made all the decisions for that family and that opposition was unthinkable.

I have not been able to read anymore of this through the week but I plan to this weekend.

Just in a few short pages (Sept/Oct) they have had two men in the party at each other and one is killed.
An older gentleman was left behind.
Children were forced to walk.
Indians stole 18 cattle, a milk cow and arrowed several others.
Later 21 more cattle were killed.
After that a family with a meagre supply of food left with a pack on their back and each carrying a child, set forth to finish the journey on foot by themselves!
During that same week a man mysteriously disappears. A man was thought to have done him in to get to the large sum of money he carried that left his wife alone.
Another man was found to be carrying his gun later??

So they start turning on each other for survival of the most?

I find it very interesting so far. The things you point out, Lesle are really crazy to think of given all the unknowns that lay ahead of them. I wonder how much this little girl (at the time) clearly remembers of her journey or of how all the situations were really resolved by the adults. I wonder how much of it she recalls purely by having it explained to her by older members of the party after the fact. Either way she does explain things in a very innocent sort of way and I find it very readable.

Chad it is very readable I agree. You can tell she is not an author. No great details, but more than enough to understand what is going on.

I have read up to the point of the huge snow storms of feet and feet of snow. Where the loss of cattle is buried by snow so much they cannot locate it to have for meals. Her Father's hand damaged and how sick he becomes. The loss of members is immense.

That’s where I am too, Lesle. I’m a backcountry hiker and backpacker I am always amazed at these sort or stories by what they achieved and were able to deal with given the small amount of supplies they had at the time. It makes me think of all the meaningless garbage that I pack out and consider “essential”.

They left so much behind that they thought were essentials when they first left. Now it is pretty much shelter, hides and food.

I'll be joining you all for this reading, thank you for the suggestion

Yes Sandy my thoughts as well. Sometimes I think they get this itch and just have to go but at his stage in life (my life) no way. Almost seems selfish.

KC wrote: "I'll be joining you all for this reading, thank you for the suggestion"

Glad to have you join in KC.
Please share your thoughts on this as you go!

'Frances was six years and eight months old and could trudge along quite bravely, but Georgia, who was little more than five, and I, lacking a week of four years, could not do well on the heavy trail, and we were soon taken up and carried.'

The Second Relief party took the girls and left behind Mother to take care of Father by her choice. The Mother said to the girls “I may never see you again, but God will take care of you.”

Again I am not sure I could do this as a Mother or Grandmother for that matter.

Sandy wrote: "Just wondering, Lesle, have you just finished chapter 12?..."

Yes I just did yesterday on lunch. I am starting XIII now.
Chapter 12 is where the Relief Party's come in to help the ones that are able to keep going.

I just finished Chapter 13.
Mother came to visit the 3 girls and stayed with them till the next morning to return to their ailing father.

Sandy I watched a clip about the Hastings Cutoff it stated that even today
'The intense snowfall in this area, however, presents the same hazards as it did in the days of the Donner Party tragedy. It is so heavy that the roads (I-80) have to be closed occasionally.'

The five months the group spent trapped on the eastern side of the Sierra culminated in death and cannibalism. Of the 87 men, women and children in the Donner Party, 46 survived: two thirds of the women and children, but only one third of the men.

I have been reading other articles and watching documentaries about it as well. Why the slow reading process :)

I have a hard time with reading it as it in not writen like it happened to Eliza but what she glenned. More like notes of facts. Not complete. Not even sure if I explained that correctly.
The different articles I read are much easier to comprehend.

I read the timeline and it reads how this book reads to me.

I finished this today. Not what I expected. I did like it but wasn’t expecting her to focus so much on her life afterwards. I do enjoy those sorts of individual stories from the past though and it’s just as well as there’s been so much written about the actual event.

Me too Sandy!

The articles seem to help understand when and how it was for others from their point of view.

I think the turn around of the story to her life is a plus and is better.

Life is becoming better with people who care and are treating them well.
Trip to Grandma Brunner's in the wagon was a good week long and "only" 80 miles.
Grandma was more energetic and she could talk to her as she
worked.
She got to sleep under the roof of those she loved!
Grandma told her “This be your home so long as you be good,”

I am sure that brought her (even though young) peace and happiness!

Sandy wrote: "I’m still back at chapter 13 — arrival of the third relief. Snow, snow, and more snow! ..."

I think that time is about one of the worst. Thank goodness for the relief parties.

She is leaving Grandma. I hope she finds a better life still even though Grandma was very good to them.
It is an interesting pioneer life in early California.

I need to read this. My dad is from Sonoma, and I've been to Sutter's Mill and Donner Lake.

Audrey it is a very interesting story and like Sandy stated the girls are very strong and seem to go with the flow of the changes in their lives. I would find it stressful myself but what they have endured this has to be a thankful part of their life.

That one event in childhood really shaped their lives. At one time I remember her writing that she tried to keep it secret from classmates and adults as well.

Thank you so much for this recommendation, I finished the book yesterday and am glad to have read it. I am from the Sacramento Valley in California and grew up hearing this story and traveling by Donner Lake over the Donner Pass many times for camping trips. I am glad to have read this and be able to understand this story much differently now that I have read the truth about the family this expedition was named after. Eliza's story of her mother really hit home for me and I will not think of the Donner story the same ever again.

I listened to this on an audiobook and was in my car during the part where Eliza is describing her mother being on the sierra mountain top looking down over the Sacramento Valley they are wanting to go to. Just at that moment, I was driving on a country road facing east and was looking clearly at those same mountains where she stood, topped with snow, and I was looking at them from the valley floor she had been looking down on. That moment, along with all the mentions of the Sacramento area I have grown up knowing so well, made reading this book a very personal and surreal time to be able to connect with these people from a different time who were longing to be where I have always called home.

Thank you for this recommendation, I would have never thought to read it otherwise!

Just driving over Donner Pass is treacherous, and the Great Basin is so empty of resources for travelers, I can't imagine taking a covered wagon through the landscape when hardly anything was known about it.

Hearing multiple members reading and enjoying this book is great.

Sandy, I'm glad we could knock one off your TBR list.

KC, you're very welcome for the recommendation! Feel free to peruse our previous nonfiction reads as well in the archive section. All discussions stay open for comment.

Samantha I would have never read this on my own either. Just from what I knew of, which was very little in reality compared to the book.
Your little pushes to look into other articles led me to a much scope of what happened and why.

Sandy and Chad thank you for being my reading partners through this. I am glad I had both of your opinions to help me through the beginning.

I have high hopes for the ending and will finish this weekend.

Chrissie wrote: "I am sorry you are alone Lesle! ..."

Chrissie I appreciate your kind words to help me through this as well!

I didn't read about the Donner Party because living also in the Sacramento I have read many books and articles about the tragic situation. But I must say I have really enjoyed following your discussion of it.

Blueberry I am glad you followed along with us. Sandy and I have a little more to go so keep checking it out!

Following the discussion also inspired me to read this book. It's now in my "to read soon" pile!