The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

The Bandit Queens by Parini Shroff

This at first seemed like a humorous chick-lit type of book with a dark streak in it. It certainly could be classified as such.

But it ended up being a lot more- there’s social commentary aplenty:
Status of widowhood, childlessness, caste. Spousal abuse, alcoholism, male/female dynamics. Female friendships, empowerment, and how far we go to support each other.

I think this is a very good choice for the Women’s Prize- it entertains and educates, while addressing important issues.

Thanks - it sounds really interesting

This might be an unfair judgment, but my first reaction is why read a book set in India written by an American when I could read one written by an author living in India. I had the same feeling last year while reading Build Your House Around My Body (set in Vietnam).

I'm not intending to be glib. I genuinely worry about crowding out voices that aren't citizens of western countries.

David wrote: "This might be an unfair judgment, but my first reaction is why read a book set in India written by an American when I could read one written by an author living in India. I had the same feeling las..."

I agree. But at least we knew that the author had spent time in Vietnam. I’m not sure that Shroff has ever been in India. I only listened to about 25% of Bandit Queen, but at that point I thought the setting could have taken place almost anywhere. I will go back and finish it.

I thought this was a perfectly fine book but don't really have too much more to say about it. It is definitely not as funny as people will expect and there is a tremendous amount of content about the limitations placed on women. But it did not linger for me at all after I read it.

The points about the author's lack of real connection to India are interesting to me. I wonder why more hasn't been made of that.

I would be interested to know more about her background. My point wasn't so much that she shouldn't be writing about India or that it isn't her story to tell, but more that in a world with limited time to read books set in India I would rather read one written by someone who lives there.

She's talked about the fact that the book was inspired by events in Gujarat observed during her visits there to stay with family, so she does have direct experience of India. In fact a lot of second and third generation descendants of Indian people based outside India maintain strong links to India itself, I have a number of friends who regularly spend long periods of time in India staying with family, and have done since they were small children. In that way India and aspects of Indian culture are part of their perspective from a formative age, and for many Indian families based elsewhere it's considered an important aspect of children's social and cultural education. So it doesn't seem unreasonable that some may then feel that they want to write about their experiences or tell stories from their viewpoint of India.

Edit: and this may be just me but there is something that strikes me as rather ironic - however well-intentioned - about a bunch of white people debating whether or not a woman of colour has the right/sufficient authority to tell stories about a country that is such an important part of her heritage.

I really liked this one. Witty, well-written feminist romp that addresses serious issues, like classism and misogyny in an Indian village.

I agree Alwynne, I have no problem with a child of Vietnamese immigrants or Indian immigrants writing about a culture/country that formed their childhood.

I was very interested in reading this book but after a couple of reviews in the Indian media, as well as reviews on Goodreads by Indians I have lost interest in it as of now (I might pick it later). There was a review I read which said that this book just feeds into the stereotypes about India and Hinduism that westerners already have. The review also said that author's lack of understanding of a certain things about India is very evident.

So answering the question of if an Indian origin author can write a book about India, yes they can but they need to do a lot of research and understand the nuances better. They shouldn't look at things with a western perspective but in a cultural context. From having a lot of cousins in US, I can tell you that I have had to explain a lot of things to them as they do tend to look at things in a different lens from us. So yeah, Indians born and raised abroad will have a different view of our societies than we do.

A review from someone who has read the book might help more -

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I can see that blatant factual errors could be an issue in some novels centred on India but equally that could happen in books that stem directly from India. Diasporic writers are likely to have a different relationship to their material than those who aren’t, and their perspectives will also vary accordingly. But at the same time, these writers are not necessarily writing for an Indian reader based in India. They are often addressing a specific set of diasporic Indian implied readers who may share their concerns, specific set of interests. These kinds of issues have been topics of debate since Salman Rushdie published his now-famous essay in the LRB in the early 80s (and possibly before).

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v04/n...

Having said that, it's equally possible that a novel - or this novel -could be one of those Naban Ruthnum has designated "currybook" narratives that reproduce tired tropes/representations in their portrayal of India and/or aspects of Indian culture simply because that's what particular, predominantly white Western audiences expect or publishers catering for them think will sell. But in those instances, I feel the burden of responsibility should lie with white expectations and white-dominated media industries not with individual authors of colour.

This is my favorite of the WP so far this year (I still have 2 to go)

My review:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...

Alwynne wrote: "Having said that, it's equally possible that a novel - or this novel -could be one of those Naban Ruthnum has designated "currybook" narratives that reproduce tired tropes/representations in their portrayal of India and/or aspects of Indian culture simply because that's what particular, predominantly white Western audiences expect or publishers catering for them think will sell. But in those instances, I feel the burden of responsibility should lie with white expectations and white-dominated media industries not with individual authors of colour."

This was my concern too, Alwynne. In part because I've seen similar books pop up on the WP longlist. But I'd be willing to give this a shot if others like it and say it's doing interesting things narratively and thematically.

I'm almost halfway through it and hope to finish today or tomorrow. It's a pretty easy read. So far it doesn't seem like a book that will necessarily stay with me for long after I read it, but who knows what the second half will hold.

David, I've never particularly thought of that, wanting to read more by people from the country they're writing about- though now that I think about it, it definitely can make a difference.

I couldn't get past the first 30 pages. From my grumpy perspective, it felt like a one-note cartoon. I know I didn't give it enough time for a fair hearing, but that's reader's privilege - I'm queen of my domain :) I'm glad most readers feel differently, and if it wins the prize I will be happy for the author.

I am about 50 pages from the end of this book and have found the language and tone really jarring - the language and tone make it evident that the book has been written by someone with very little cultural context. I am really surprised that this book made the longlist when books like To Paradise were overlooked

Not sure it’s fair to bring in To Paradise given it was different judges last year

Only just started this so not sure what I think yet. I did raise a smile at the Kabaddi mantra though.

Aditi wrote: "the language and tone make it evident that the book has been written by someone with very little cultural context"

What about the language and tone seems out of sync culturally, Aditi?

Totally agree with Aditi - I found this so unbelievable and the tone is very odd, swinging from preachy earnestness to comedy. It also drags for most of its length.

The language- the swear words, the metaphors, the way the twins parrot each other (Rude! Like, so rude!") - sounds extremely American with random Hindi words thrown in for verisimilitude. Also, the women swing between disenfranchisement and extreme empowerment, which makes this book unbelievable to the point of being ludicrous, particularly given the setting. It needed to be more subtle and more culturally accurate to be an effective social satire. I think the book was only nominated for its novelty value as a book about non-conformist women in an Indian village.

I was thinking it might be along those lines.

Extremely American with random Hindi words sounds almost exactly like the first two chapters.

Extremely American with random Hindi words sounds almost exactly like the first two chapters.

See - twins do parrot each other :-)

I DNF'ed at page 30 a couple of weeks ago, feeling like I was the only one who wasn't charmed by it. Now I feel like I'm not a lone grump.

You definitely are not. I read the whole thing but it did more or less lose me at about 100 pages in. I think the author couldn't decide whether to make it a comedy or a serious social commentary and did a mash-up that really did not work for me at all.

Annoyingly, even the term 'papadam' is inaccurate for that part of India - a basic Google search tells you that!

I am getting strong My Sister The Serial Killer vibes and that somehow made the shortlist as well as the Booker longlist

It did not however have the characters saying things like “bogus” before throwing in some random local phrases

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I am getting strong My Sister The Serial Killer vibes and that somehow made the shortlist as well as the Booker longlist

It did not however have the characters saying things like “bogus” before t..."

I think My Sister: The Serial Killer is a decent analogy GY, and yes I was personally very surprised by its appearance on both lists.

Aditi wrote: "The language- the swear words, the metaphors, the way the twins parrot each other (Rude! Like, so rude!") - sounds extremely American with random Hindi words thrown in for verisimilitude. Also, the..."

Yes!

I wasn't a huge fan of My Sister the Serial Killer but I do think it's better than this one.

My thoughts

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I like your review GY and am curious to see where you slot it among your three-star reads in the dynamic rankings.

Thanks. At the top of the three stars I think.

Hands down the most enjoyable book from the long list so far for me. Really appreciated the discussion above on how authentic the novel is too.