THE Group for Authors! discussion

Hello everyone. Maybe you have seen me around...maybe not.

I started a new discussion group today that is focused on the first twenty pages of unpublished manuscripts. Agents, publishers, and even readers may never see more of your manuscript than the first 20 pages or so. These need to be the strongest in your entire manuscript, no matter how strong it finishes.

The group will remain focused only on these three areas:
— Write the best first 20 pages you can. All the other members can read what is posted and offer constructive feedback.
— Tips and questions about the agent/publisher querying process.
— Tips and questions on the self-publishing process.

No advertising for services, and no paid beta readers. This is a board for free help. I know many of us are short on time and perhaps we as a community could establish a pattern within where each writer published only five or six pages at a time, but that will come as we grow.

I hope you will all find value in posting and/or commenting. We can all help each other in this,

https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...

See you all there.

Sounds great. How does one “join,” exactly?

The link should open the group. From there… I don't know. I would need to join another group to figure this out. I hoped that with the link, joining would be simple.

As best as I can find, there should be a "Join Group" button under the picture of Jackson on the group home. Let me know if that isn't there.

No, unfortunately, there is no such button.

Nothing is ever easy, is it? I changed the country from where I live to “The United States.” See if that made any difference. Maybe Goodreads thought I only wanted members from my country, which would be wasteful (English is not the primary language).

Try it one last time. If it still doesn't work, I will submit a help ticket to Goodreads. I am sorry for this.

I think that did the trick. Or maybe I finally navigated to the correct page (it looks different).

So it could've been my fault all along.

In any case, I think I've successfully joined.

-Ken

Yea! And then there were 2. You have more friends on GR than I do. I let you decide whether to invite them.

Well, here's what might make my participation somewhat halting...

Up until now, all I've ever done on GR is do lists, review books I've read, add friends, and comment on friends' books. If I've actually joined a group, I certainly haven't been active in any real way; I've just looked at comments, and the like.

So this is pretty new for me. Expect dumb questions.

Here's one: How/where would I post my 20 pages?

And another: How, exactly, would I invite friends to join?

I would understand if you didn't want to deal with such a novice. Just let me know -- I won't take it persionally -- if I am too high maintenance, and I'll gracefully bow out.

I am a novice at this, too. I watched a video/class today teaching the importance of the first 20 pages of a manuscript. I was inspired to help others as I jumped into working on my own.

Dumb questions: ask anything you want. I'll try to answer.

Where to post? You can copy and paste it into a post (if it is short enough to fit, probably not). Or post a Google Docs link (or some such similar). Remember that in many cases, anyone who wants to click to go there needs you to have set the permissions so that they can open without issues. That's the part I can never get right.

Asking friends to join… I'm on a laptop. On the main group screen, on the right, is a box with several options. “Group Home” Challenges, Bookshelf, Discussions, etc., etc. In that group is a link, “Invite Friends.” I don't know how it works on a phone OS, but I suspect it is either at the top or near the bottom of the main group menu. Once you are in there, your friends will appear under the Friends tab. Select the ones you want to invite and click the send button. There are other ways to invite people, also. I posted to a Beta Readers group on Facebook.

In hindsight… Your question about where to post is quite brilliant. I completely spaced that there is a limit to the size of posts. One post will most likely not fit 20 pages worth of text. I will need to post for the group that they will need to part out the pages or set up a link. You noticed I only posted my prelude chapter. Not because I realized it, but that's as much as I finished working today. I was eager to share it. Thanks for catching that.

Set up your web page, and post it there. Then you can give links to it here and in other places as well.

I don’t have a webpage. 😬🤗

K. wrote: "I don’t have a webpage. 😬🤗"
Do you not have one because you don't think you can afford it, or because of paying to have it designed? Occasionally Bowker has tutorials on doing it yourself. It took me about 3 hours to do it following step-by-step instructions. Here's my page; cindybonner.com - see if you think it looks too homemade. :) It's a great way to get yourself noticed. And I actually get messages from readers through the contact me segment of the page

OK, Cindy. talking about webpages. Is it ok to veer away from first 20 pages for a minute? If so, I have the webpage but I 'm posting in a vacuum. Nobody there but me. How does it get out to the public and attract followers?

K. wrote: "I don’t have a webpage. 😬🤗"

Sign up for free at Medium.com. That's my "webpage."

Sorry, for the delay, I am in the rural province (on an island) and the Internet is spotty at best.

Jennie wrote: "OK, Cindy. talking about webpages. Is it ok to veer away from first 20 pages for a minute? If so, I have the webpage but I 'm posting in a vacuum. Nobody there but me. How does it get out to the pu..."

I posted the reply to K. Set up a free account at Medium.com. If you use the SEO settings well enough, you will get some views and possibly some reads. Spend some time developing “followers.” Here is my Medium.com link:

https://medium.com/@GAllenMatthews

It's free.

Hi Allen and others in this group,

While I still like this 'First 20 Pages' idea, I don't think I'll be able to participate in this, for lack of a better word, 'format.'

If folks would like to exchange emails -- mine is: -- so we can then easily create a group email string, and then exchange our 20 pages as attached Word/docx or PDFs, I'd be all for that. I already do that with beta readers of my entire novel-in-progress, sending chapters one or two at a time, and sometimes, for those with the time, my entire 80K-word novel.

So, I hope to hear from folks via email. But I won't be participating here.

Good luck to those who soldier on here!


Be well,

Ken

Thx for the tips.

Folks,

The "20-pages Group" is a great idea, but if you just start typing a post here, right below the "box" you'll see "### characters left".

The maximum number of characters in a GR post is 12,000.

I did a test with what I'm trying to get done (blatant self-promotion ahead!!!): The Tinderbox—a 95K (so far) gay/MM retelling of the fairy tale of the same name—and 12,000 characters works out to roughly 2000-2100 words.

In turn, 20 pages was a bit over 9000 words, and 20 pages in another book was a bit over 8000.

So the bottom line is that it would take at least 4 and probably 5 posts here, to "publish" the 20 pages.

Sorry, but I don't think it's technically feasible to do this via a GR group.

And with apologies for another "parade raining" comment...what about the wide variety of genres the few of us who've commented write in? I only write gay/MM(M) fantasies and Regencies. The first 20 pages might possibly involve sex. Folks might not be comfortable (perhaps even offended) reading those pages.

I'm not going to feel comfortable responding to an M/F romance, for example.

And there are undoubtedly other "that's not my cuppa" reactions amongst us...and any others who might be interested...in various genres, whether fiction or not. So I think there has to be consideration of how to deal with connecting up folks with shared interests in terms of responding to/helping with someone else's first 20 pages.

Just my USD .02.

Eric

Jennie wrote: "OK, Cindy. talking about webpages. Is it ok to veer away from first 20 pages for a minute? If so, I have the webpage but I 'm posting in a vacuum. Nobody there but me. How does it get out to the pu..."
Make sure you have put it on any web presence you may have: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc as part of your profile. Periodically search yourself. Your web page is hopefully the first thing that comes up in the results. You can add it to Google, Amazon, here, your blog, a myriad of other places I haven't mentioned. Anywhere there's a place for it, basically, including as a permanent signature on your email account. It does take time for people to start noticing. I am assuming there's a way for someone to contact you through your web page. That's how you really know people are finding you. Good luck!

Eric wrote: “Folks,

The “20-pages Group” is a great idea, but if you just start typing a post here, right below the “box” you'll see “### characters left”.

The maximum number of characters in a GR post is 12…”

I considered genre and set up some sections, but I did not set up an expansive list. You're right about the message maximum, and my feeling is possibly posting a message—like a blurb—that allows communication of those possible trigger issues—and a P/M exchange containing email.

I'm new to this and am open to ideas. We have discussed clickable links to something like Google Docs (or another online service like that). We can work out kinks and issues as we grow. You could help by promoting the group, as I do every day (except when I am stranded on an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean for two weeks…).

Two weeks in a happy place was not as pleasant as it sounds. And way more poverty than I expected.