Solarpunk discussion

As METAtropolis: Green Space moves into the 22nd Century, human social evolution is heading in new directions after the Green Crash and the subsequent Green Renaissance. Nearly everyone who cares to participate in the wired world has become part of the "Internet of things", a virtual environment mapped across all aspects of the natural experience. At the same time, the serious back-to-the-land types have embraced a full-on paleo lifestyle, including genetically engineering themselves and their offspring. At the same time, a back-to-space movement is seeking the moon, a green Mars, and even the stars, with the eventual goal of leaving a pristine and undisturbed Earth behind.

I'm having a particularly hard time with this one. You can't go thirty seconds without the narrators mentioning something that you (the reader/listener) don't understand or can't identify, and it's doubly confusing that Bashar doesn't even know who or what some of these things are either.

There seems to be tremendous thought put into the world building - world building that is potentially interesting once I can figure it out - but they don't provided enough context fast enough.

P.S. I should note that I'm only wrapping up chapter 5, and I know the figuring it out/"ask the next question" is a trope of science fiction, but the clues still aren't coming fast enough given how much the author is front loading the complexity of this world.

So, I'm only 70 pages in, but so far there aren't any characters here that I actually like. But, there are some distinct characters, and also some "mystery box" elements that are handled well (giving occasional bits of information so it's not just a permanent question mark, while still leaving plenty to wonder about).

I am, I admit, finding much of the world-building to be very, very 2009, perhaps even written pre-GFC, both futuristic and dated at the same time. For example, the "somehow we can live in cities but not depend on country folk with their regressive politics for food and such". It doesn't ring very true to reality. However, it is thought-provoking, and well written, so I'm going to keep going.

Just finished the first author's section. It's a Christ tale. Nothing wrong with that, even if you're not a Christian; "Cool Hand Luke" was a Christ tale. But it's a pretty self-aware Christ tale.

Interesting question was whether or not the female mercenary was intended to be an update on the prostitute character (often, and I am led to believe falsely, identified as Mary Magdalene), mercenaries being in some ways analogous to prostitutes. Cascadia council of elders (I forget the actual name) was the Pharisees, Bashar was Judas, etc.

Finished second author's section. At the core of it is the idea that you can get the desired social aspects of cities, without the population density, and without relying on a rural surrounding that is dedicated to agriculture to support that. For example, the whole plot relies on everpresent electronics (e.g. headsup displays) and somebody running a Mechanical Turk service, but neatly avoids the topic of where the factories are to make the electronics (including the millions of servers to run the turking service), and where the electricity comes from to run the factories and the servers.

Also, the revolutionary movement seems to have a lot of money available for bailing people out, paying fines, etc, and it's not clear where that comes from.

Still, an interesting thought experiment on how "turking" could be used at scale, if you had an automated means of organizing it.

From the wikipedia article on "vertical farming":

Vertical farming technologies face economic challenges with large start-up costs compared to traditional farms. In Victoria, Australia, a "hypothetical 10 level vertical farm" would cost over 850 times more per square meter of arable land than a traditional farm in rural Victoria.[10] Vertical farms also face large energy demands due to the use of supplementary light like LEDs. Moreover, if non-renewable energy is used to meet these energy demands, vertical farms could produce more pollution than traditional farms or greenhouses.

...I don't know if these specific numbers hold up, but I don't doubt that it will turn out that you cannot grow enough food in a city to support the people in that city, and the harder you try the more electricity (and other resources) you will burn in the attempt to replace all that large amounts of soil and large surface area to absorb sun provides.

yeah, I guess there's two types of urban farming people tend to envisage. One is high-tech, and runs into huge energy problems, like you said.
The other is low-tech, like having plants grow on roofs and on the outsides of facades. From the ground up, and from balconies (well-planned, including irrigation, not like balconies now). and permaculture mushrooms in the basement.
That still will never feed the whole city, but if it provides much of the fruit and vegetables that's already great. I say fruit+veg because unlike eg grain, these can not be harvested with huge machines anyway, so many small plots are ok. Also, the short transport / direct consumption is great for such perishable goods. It also makes for green cities, which is pretty and keeps us cool in summer.

I'm all in favor of gardening (conventional or rooftop or etc.) in cities. I live in a city, and I garden. I guess it doesn't do enough for the typical SF author because it doesn't make the city independent of the countryside (and the fossil fuels to connect the two), because as you say it doesn't produce enough. Also, the foods where it makes the most sense, are the ones that are not as easy to store for the winter (you could can the vegetables, as my mom did, but that requires a good bit of energy as well). Basically, there's some pretty hard physical limits to how much food you can produce in a small space, and there's a reason that early cities were in grain-producing areas. Grain is just easier to scale up to feed cities, and easier to store for the off-season.

You could, in theory, depopulate a skyscraper (or whatever) until it could produce enough food for the remaining inhabitants, but then I suppose it wouldn't really be a city, it would be an artist colony (or whatever).

The second story of this collection also has an itinerant city, which reminds me of Burning Man (probably not supposed to), which sounds fun but wouldn't be a long-term sustainable model. Most of the Burning Man "inhabitants" go back to working in conventional society for most of the year.

But, the book does raise interesting questions, even if it doesn't always seem to realize it.

Haha! I'm just realizing that I got the first in the series, published in 2009, and y'all might be reading (or listening to) a later book in the series. Oh well! I wonder if it makes it easier for me to figure out what we're talking about than Khalil's experience; they might feel more obligation to explain things in the first book.

Rock of Ages by Jay Lake ★★★★★
This was as a good as Tom Cruise action-mystery movie. Loved it!

Green and Dying by Elizabeth Bear ★★★½☆
The first half was so boring, enragingly boring, considering it’s the culmination of a long con. But then post-pandemic thunder words like cytokines storm ramped up the story.

The Desire Lines by Karl Schroeder ★★☆☆☆
A boring legal conspiracy to steal the personhood of the forest.

Apparently I dropped a plot thread because what was the big deal with the pink backpack in the seasonal cave?

Midway Bells & Dying Breeds by Seanan McGuire ★★★★½
“The trouble with wanting to do the right thing is that frequently the right thing today is the wrong thing for tomorrow. Or the wrong thing for the people who are standing between you and your perfect platonic future.”

“It’s a utopia, by 20th century standards, and everything would be wonderful if it weren’t a utopia that’s full of humans. And we are still human.”

Damn she’s a good writer. I hope Ansley and Billy have many adventures together.

Read the story here: https://www.tor.com/2014/09/24/midway...

Tensegrity by Tobias S. Buckell ★★★½☆
The founder of a sky city must come out of retirement to save his sentient creation from extremists.

Forest of Memories by Mary Robinette Kowal ★★★☆☆
“I’ve given you the gift of uncertainty.”

A woman is kidnapped after witnessing a man tranquillizing deer. It’s possible this was the emergence of deer as the next new sentient species, but the story is obnoxiously lacking of clarity.

Let Me Hide Myself in Thee by Ken Scholes ★★★★★
Best story of the bunch! In the riveting conclusion to Rock of Ages Bashar’s wife and daughter take over the story and (view spoiler)[save the (human) world.
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