Ersatz TLS discussion

Hello, everyone!
Grey skies and a little cooler here after a storm yesterday evening — more forecast this afternoon, but then more hot sunny days, too hot for me. I guess most of you have also got hot weather.
More time for reading ...
Here's to lots of good books for all.

Thnaks GPFR, very warm in the shires, though a cooler night, the humidity is now what drives the temperatures and a warm week ahead

Interesting what Robert mentioned at the end of the last thread about the Petain trial. I havent read any WW2 related books in 2023 so far but Czapskis account of his war in Poland Inhuman Land may be next and could replace Thubron if he fails to move into the modern world with his "gods and aincient cultures" trek in lebanon

Re Petain, i keep meaning to read Celine's Castle to Castle which deals with the last months of the Vichy mob, secured in a castle in Germany...

AB76 wrote: "Interesting what Robert mentioned at the end of the last thread about the Petain trial.
... could replace Thubron if he fails to move into the modern world with his "gods and aincient cultures" trek in lebanon ..."

From the review in The G, I thought the Pétain book looked interesting, too, France on Trial: The Case of Marshal Pétain.

Concerning Thubron and Lebanon, it seems to me from what I've seen about the book that writing about modern Lebanon wasn't too much his aim: "a quest for the divinities of the region - Astarte and Adonis". His Journey into Cyprus which I've mentioned before, was very much concerned with history, too, although contemporary issues were raised.

Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Interesting what Robert mentioned at the end of the last thread about the Petain trial.
... could replace Thubron if he fails to move into the modern world with his "gods and aincient..."

i think i will move onto the travel writing of Paul Bowles, rather than Thubron!

28⁰C here in the Midlands, hot and humid and the promised thunderstorms have not arrived. The remains of my front lawn rapidly turning to hay.

Gpfr wrote: "Hello, everyone."

Thanks for the new thread!

Well! I haven't laughed so much, and so loud, for a long time - and as madame would tell you, I often laugh, and loudly. Does this indicate a lack of discrimination? When 'Mrs. Brown's Boys' unexpectedly appears on the TV screen, do I ROLF? Fortunately, I am quick on the draw with the remote...

Anyway - to The Dog of the South by Charles Portis. This book has a plot, of sorts - man pursues wife and her ex-husband, gun, car and credit cards (in no particular order) from the southern USA to British Honduras (now 'Belize'), but in truth it is a series of digressions involving many eccentrics, described in singular fashion by our guide, the narrator Ray Midge. It is definitely a Marmite book - a quick look at Amazon's reviews shows a number of 5* and 1* opinions. How can this be?

Those who like droll observations, and who admire Tim Dowling's downbeat descriptions of everyday life in the Saturday 'Guardian' should feel at home; those who comment BTL that "he gets paid for this stuff?" will leave disappointed.

For sure, it is not plot-driven!

Here are a few comments that amused me, as a taster:

I was surprised and lightheaded, like a domestic fowl that finds itself able to fly over a low fence in a moment of terror.

The pie itself, lemon, I carried about in the room for a while, putting it down here and there. I couldn’t find a good place for it. Finally I took it outside and left it by the Dumpster for a passing rat, who would squeak with delight when he saw those white billows of meringue.

Christine went off on her own to look for Mrs. Symes and to buck up sick people. She made a cheery progress from bed to bed, in the confident manner of a draftdodger athlete signing autographs for mutilated soldiers.

Of course, for the full effect this stuff has to be read in context - but it gives an idea. You will either love it - or be baffled and unmoved.

sounds like fun!

giveusaclue wrote: "28⁰C here in the Midlands, hot and humid and the promised thunderstorms have not arrived. The remains of my front lawn rapidly turning to hay."

most of the weeds in my gutter have died! was quite a nice green mass...no longer..!

Some changes in my reading now, as Spark has been finished and Thubron dumped.

I have started Travels by Paul Bowles, a 450 page-ish collection of his travel writing and other non-fiction, should be very interesting covering 1950 to 1993

I have returned to Albert Camus after almost 15 years, to read The First Man his unfinished novel of Algeria. A childbirth during a storm on the Mitidja Plain was a wonderful immersion into the world of Camus ....

Greenfairy wrote: "sounds like fun!"

I certainly thought so... maybe give Portis a try if you like the excerpts.

giveusaclue wrote: "28⁰C here in the Midlands, hot and humid and the promised thunderstorms have not arrived. The remains of my front lawn rapidly turning to hay."

Look on the bright side - it won't have to be mowed! 😎

PS - I look forward to straw each summer. It's not that I'm lazy, but there's still a lot to do keeping up with what is going on outside and if I don't have to mow . . .

For those who like thrillers in case you've missed Don Winslow's Rhode Island (RI) mafia thrillers, there are now 2. The first is and the second which I'm currently listening to is -

If you are further interested in shenanigans in RI, you could venture into a favorite of mine - Spenser (mostly in Boston) mysteries. Particularly #9 - and #32 - with the usual caveat that it is really best to begin at the beginning.

An interesting take on Harry (NYT/gift link) https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/10/op...

scarletnoir wrote: "Anyway - to The Dog of the South by Charles Portis."

Portis has had some influential advocates over the years - Ron Rosenbaum, Roy Blount Jr., and Donna Tartt who have managed to get his novels, first brought back into print by Overlook Press and, most recently, enshrined in the Library of America.

I've read all 5 of his novels and, prompted by your post, just re-read the opening pages of The Dog of the South; he is a funny writer.

My main problem is that, other than True Grit, which I think is a masterpiece, none of his books have stayed in my memory in any significant way. I don't know that many other readers make this a criterion for whether they consider a book good or not, but I do expect an author to provide me with a memorable experience.

Bill wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Anyway - to The Dog of the South by Charles Portis."

Portis has had some influential advocates over the years - Ron Rosenbaum, Roy Blount Jr., and..."

Hi Bill, does his writing compare to "Butchers Crossing" in any way, i have "Shane" on my list right now and am interested in the "western" group of novelists. Also any thoughts on AB Guthrie?

AB76 wrote: "Hi Bill, does his writing compare to "Butchers Crossing" in any way, i have "Shane" on my list right now and am interested in the "western" group of novelists. Also any thoughts on AB Guthrie?"

I have Guthrie's The Big Sky, but haven't read it. The voice Portis achieves in True Grit was one of the novel's great features for me: it's the voice of Mattie Ross who, at age 14 sets out to bring her father's killers to justice, but the narrative voice is that of a much older Mattie. It's much different than the detached third person narration of Butcher's Crossing.

I also thought very highly of Little Big Man, which is a pretty non-traditional Western in many ways. I enjoyed Warlock, a fictionalized account of the gunfight at the OK Corral, which I often see on a list of recommended Westerns.

AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "28⁰C here in the Midlands, hot and humid and the promised thunderstorms have not arrived. The remains of my front lawn rapidly turning to hay."

most of the weeds in my gutter h..."

Oops -don't end up with a flood in your cellar like I did.

From the Yale University Press - 50% off + free shipping sitewide with code Y23SUMMER | June 12-23 | Some restrictions apply.

Sorry to say it looks like this sale is only available in the States, but that doesn't mean you can't look and get IDEAS!

MK wrote: "If you are further interested in shenanigans in RI, you could venture into a favorite of mine - Spenser (mostly in Boston) mysteries...."

I like Spenser, too — I've got all the series (not counting those continuing it after Parker's death, of course). I remember after I'd first discovered them, buying some in Murder One in Charing Cross Road (the original shop on the right when heading towards Trafalgar Square, not the later one on the left) and two other women doing exactly the same with equal enthusiasm.
Murder One was a splendid shop for fans of crime novels.

Bill wrote: "Portis has had some influential advocates over the years - Ron Rosenbaum, Roy Blount Jr., and Donna Tartt who have managed to get his novels, first brought back into print by Overlook Press and, most recently, enshrined in the Library of America."

Thanks for that - I had never heard of the first two (their fame, AFAIK, has not reached this side of the Atlantic) - but Rosenbaum contributed an afterword to the Portis I read. It had some very good moments, and others where he seemed to be trying too hard...

I've ordered a "pre-used" copy of 'True Grit' with an Introduction by Donna Tartt (whose books I like), though as usual I won't read it until I finish the book. (Introductions, for me, are only useful if they provide information necessary for the reader to understand the book - perhaps some historical background to a tale set in an unfamiliar culture or time period. I can make my own mind up about the writing.)

Bill wrote: "I don't know that many other readers make (being memorable) a criterion for whether they consider a book good or not, but I do expect an author to provide me with a memorable experience."

It rather depends what you mean by 'memorable' - I have a poor memory for names, and details of plots usually escape me even for very familiar works - say, 'Hamlet' or 'Macbeth'. What does stick are my feelings about the book. No doubt I'll recall 'Stoner' with revulsion as long as I live, but that won't make it a 'good' book for me!

As you know, I insist on the notion that we are all different and apply different criteria. There is no equivalent of the scientific SI units for the measure of literary excellence, which is why I get frustrated by this or that person insisting on the brilliance of some author I find unreadable, telling me I 'ought' to read or appreciate them. I'm happy for all to apply their own ideas. When I have more time to think about this, I'll try to outline my own criteria - but it won't be a rigid or clear-cut classification, as I think it impossible to circumscribe what might qualify as 'good' writing in such a way.

21 degrees C in my neck of the woods in Norn Irn at 10 am. I've just finished mowing the grass out back, not much to cut as it is mostly moss (drying out fast) and weeds.

There has been no rain here for over two weeks, which is highly unusual, but at least there is a bit of a breeze going through my living room now so I no longer feel like a molten remnant of a human being.

Book wise, I've started three books:

The Raptures by Jan Carson, A Necessary End by Peter Robinson and Invisible Women - Exposing Data Bias in a world Designed for Men by Caroline Criado Perez.

It's too soon to give my opinions on these yet.

Thank you @greenfairy for recommending The Bandit Queens by Parini Shroff (pub. 2022), a murder caper set in deeply poor and rural India (and invoking the assassinated Phoolan Devi, the real-life Bandit Queen).

When we meet the women of the village they are portrayed as superficial and mean and angry all day at their husbands, whether they’re still around or not. Apart from a good mix of expressions in the local tongue (Gujarati?), these ladies in saris apparently all speak and think in the rude, crude, bratty lingo of American movie teens. Not for me, many will think.

And yet, and yet, the writing has verve and comedy and dark insight. We learn much of Hindu and Muslim customs, and the myriad ways in which poor Indian women are oppressed, and what it means in practice to be untouchable. Certain of the women are revealed to be smart and purposeful. The plot itself is clever, and an unexpected word is thrown in every now and then, reminding us that there is intelligence at work in the background – linearity, minacious, plosive, falcate, flense, erumpent, dendrites, zaftig.

This is a first novel, and there are moments of awkwardness that show it. Not in any of the climactic scenes, though. They are brilliantly done. A most rewarding read.

Yes Russell, I look forward to more from this author.

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Hi Bill, does his writing compare to "Butchers Crossing" in any way, i have "Shane" on my list right now and am interested in the "western" group of novelists. Also any thoughts on AB ..."

thanks bill....will have a look at warlock now

ust started The First Man by Albert Camus and a point made by JG Ballard in a review made me think, he states that" he writes, in long, long sentences of exact description without resorting to metaphor or similie"

i must pay attention to this when reading the novel

AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "28⁰C here in the Midlands, hot and humid and the promised thunderstorms have not arrived. The remains of my front lawn rapidly turning to hay."

most of the weeds in my gutter h..."

Haha, the massive thunderstorm finally arrived at teatime yesterday and it absolutely hammered down for quite a while. Just what the garden needed. 29⁰ today. Having recently had all my gutters/fascias/soffits replaced I don't have any weeds in them yet. Mind you it was mainly moss which the birds took great delight in throwing out all over my car. But at least now I don't get drips coming down my neck from the old leaky gutter.

Just finished reading


The latest in the DS Max Craigie series and thoroughly enjoyed it.

For anyone who likes crime novels/thrillers I can recommend this series. The latest starts with a very young trafficked Albanian girl on a train to Glasgow with a packet of heroin strapped to her. Fast forward 3/4 years when she is kidnapped back by the gang. The series is about an anti-corruption unit in the Scottish Police of which Craigie is part. Some of the surveillance technology stuff is a bit over my head though!

I'm sure you know how it is, you look online for something at the library and get distracted by a different book - just because your query was too wide. Here's one that I put on hold today (as if I needed more books to read!) - Hollywood’s Spies: The Undercover Surveillance of Nazis in Los Angeles. It sounds like a good read on several levels - Hollywood, WW2, Spies, Nazis.

A second I've put on hold is The Siberia Job which is new and on order. I found it through The Mysterious Bookshop's newsletter. Here's a link to a You Tube video about it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDZa7...

All I can say is that I've never know a hedge fund type to take part in an author interview before along with the author of course. Nothing like oligarchs and $$$ to whet one's appetite.

MK wrote: "From the Yale University Press - 50% off + free shipping sitewide with code Y23SUMMER | June 12-23 | Some restrictions apply.

Sorry to say it looks like this sale is only available in the States, ..."

i just found this out the hard way its USA only BUT now have five new history books lined up for future purchase and two on order (one on Irish Cities, the other on the Israeli left and the 6DW), thanks MK for the tip

AB76 wrote: "MK wrote: "From the Yale University Press - 50% off + free shipping sitewide with code Y23SUMMER | June 12-23 | Some restrictions apply.

Sorry to say it looks like this sale is only available in t..."

Tsk, tsk - you didn't read the fine print in my post. But never fear, I only got through the huge number of biographies and even put a book in my basket to find that the website went round-and-round so I never got to actually buy it. Looks like there were too many bargain husters like me online. I'll wait and take another look probably at history in a day or two.

MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "MK wrote: "From the Yale University Press - 50% off + free shipping sitewide with code Y23SUMMER | June 12-23 | Some restrictions apply.

Sorry to say it looks like this sale is only a..."

i used the princeton uni press spring discount, that was Uk and USA, to order some books back in April

Wow! Don Winslow knows how to do thrillers! I've just finished listening to - City of Dreams which begins with the Providence mob and travels to LA and Vegas with a side stop in narco Mexico. It's the 2nd in this series and is a show stopper.

RIP Cormac McCarthy

I loved The Road, was proabably the first modern novel i liked and i read it very soon after it was published, in a period where i loathed a lot of 2000-2010 era novels

AB76 wrote: "RIP Cormac McCarthy

I loved The Road, was proabably the first modern novel i liked and i read it very soon after it was published, in a period where i loathed a lot of 2000-2010 era novels"

I felt just the same about All the Pretty Horses, the first of his that I read. It was a revelation that in our modern age a writer could achieve what seemed like the quality of an epic.

PNW weather report. Such swings here. We are moving down the temperature scale with the probability that we won't even make 60­­° by Saturday.Will be turning furnace on.

Last week - low 80s. Fingers crossed though that it might rain later this week. Much needed.

Book 3 of The Faerie Queene features Britomart (Chastity), a female knight whose prowess and chivalry Spenser presents as fully equal to that of her male counterparts:

But by record of antique times I find,
That women wont in warres to beare most sway,
And to all great exploits them selues inclind:
Of which they still the girlond bore away,
Till enuious Men fearing their rules decay,
Gan coyne streight lawes to curb their liberty;
Yet sith they warlike armes haue layd away:
They haue exceld in artes and pollicy,
That now we foolish men that prayse gin eke t'enuy.

The virtue of chastity is shown in several characters in this book, as is its corresponding vice, “lewdnesse” and several rather bawdy incidents occur: Britomart is surprised in her bed by a lustful queen who believes her to be a male, a captive page is rescued from a giantess filled with “lustfull fyre”, and an elderly miser, “old, and withered like hay, / Vnfit faire Ladies seruice to supply;” discovers his runaway young wife living with a group of satyrs:

At night, when all they went to sleepe, he vewd,
Whereas his louely wife emongst them lay,
Embraced of a Satyre rough and rude,
Who all the night did minde his ioyous play:
Nine times he heard him come aloft ere day,
That all his hart with gealosie did swell;
But yet that nights ensample did bewray,
That not for nought his wife them loued so well,
When one so oft a night did ring his matins bell.

After a rather tedious third canto, in which the future history of England’s rulers (that is to say, from the time of the poem up to Spenser’s day) is recounted in a vision that reveals the Tudor dynasty to be descended from Britomart, the poem becomes much more engaging that it has been heretofore.

Characters from previous Books return and many new characters are introduced, spinning off multiple narrative threads which Spenser follows turn by turn as the paths of his characters cross and re-cross, sometimes breaking for many stanzas as backstories are filled in. A number of interesting narrative concepts and developments are introduced as well as, in the “Gardin of Adonis” episode in Canto 6, some philosophic speculation. The allegorical aspects of the poem now seem to be less in the foreground and, for those who so desire, it can more easily read purely as a chronicle of knightly adventure, a Renaissance incarnation of the “sword and sorcery” genre.

scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "Hello, everyone."

Thanks for the new thread!

Well! I haven't laughed so much, and so loud, for a long time - and as madame would tell you, I often laugh, and loudly. Does this indica..."

"The Dog of the South," the story of a man's quest for his wife, his former best friend, his car, and his collection of Civil War lectures, is a hoot.
"The doctor and Webster Spooner and I were all in the power of women."

Bill wrote: "Book 3 of The Faerie Queene features Britomart (Chastity), a female knight whose prowess and chivalry Spenser presents as fully equal to that of her male counterparts: But by record o..."

I too remember finding this one of my favourite parts of the Faerie Queene, and Britomart my favourite of the various knight-protagonists (as Bradamante and Marfisa were two of the better characters in Orlando Furioso).

I imagine that the lines

Yet sith they warlike armes haue layd away:
They haue exceld in artes and pollicy,
That now we foolish men that prayse gin eke t'enuy.

were meant as a compliment to Queen Elizabeth I?

Perhaps the best thing I like about the Faerie Queene is the Spenserian stanza with its interestingly varied rhyme scheme and extra-long final line , which I find often, as in this example, adds a remarkably effective sting to whatever is being said, almost like a punch-line.

Berkley wrote: "Bill wrote: "Book 3 of The Faerie Queene features Britomart (Chastity), a female knight whose prowess and chivalry Spenser presents as fully equal to that of her male counterparts: Bu..."

My copy of Spenser's Poetical Works from my university days is still on my shelves, but apart from knowing that I read part of The Faerie Queene, I remember very little about it. You're tempting me to pick it up again, Bill. I've just been to see which section we read and from my annotations, I see it was Book 6.

Russell wrote: "AB76 wrote: "RIP Cormac McCarthy. I loved The Road,..

I felt just the same about All the Pretty Horses ..."

I too loved All the Pretty Horses and went on to read the other two books in The Border Trilogy: All the Pretty Horses, The Crossing, Cities of the Plain which I also liked. But although from time to time I've looked at other books of his in the library, I've never quite been able to bring myself to read any.

. Exiles is the 3rd of Jane Harper's Aaron Falk crime novels.
It's set in Australian wine country which makes a change from the arid outback stories (much as I like them🌞). The mother of a young baby vanished during a local festival and a year later the family and friends, including Falk, are gathered again for a christening which had been put off the previous year.
I'm not sure if it quite meets the being able to work it out from the elements given rule, but I enjoyed it.

Russell wrote: "AB76 wrote: "RIP Cormac McCarthy

I loved The Road, was proabably the first modern novel i liked and i read it very soon after it was published, in a period where i loathed a lot of 2000-2010 era n..."

i must read some of his earlier novels, i enjoyed No Country For Old Men

Shhh ……I am whispering that I have a sneaky feeling that Robinson in Standing in the Shadow was guilty of padding. A whole chapter last night describing having a meal and how he was going to have some shelves put up to store the records that he inherited. Oh well I will forgive him because I enjoyed many of his books. RIP

AB76 wrote: "RIP Cormac McCarthy

I loved The Road, was proabably the first modern novel i liked and i read it very soon after it was published, in a period where i loathed a lot of 2000-2010 era novels"

I should not have read this - I strongly disliked it, but if I'd checked it out more carefully beforehand I'd have saved some money:

1. dystopian novel - nope
2. unspecified setting - nope
3. random acts of violence - not really my thing
4. ultimately depressing - to be avoided!

I did find 'No Country for Old Men' OK, though that, too, has a depressing ending.

No more McCarthy for me, I'm afraid.

Bill wrote: "Book 3 of The Faerie Queene features Britomart (Chastity).."

"Britomart'', eh?

For a second as this word caught my eye, I thought we were dealing with a UK convenience store chain! ;-)

Gpfr wrote: ". Exiles is the 3rd of Jane Harper's Aaron Falk crime novels.
It's set in Australian wine country which makes a change from the arid outback stories..."

Thanks for this - I liked 'The Dry' a lot, 'Force of Nature' a bit less, 'The Lost Man' felt like a return to form... most probably I'll check this one out soon.

scarletnoir wrote: ""Britomart'', eh?

For a second as this word caught my eye, I thought we were dealing with a UK convenience store chain! ;-)"

I have to admit the name had me thinking along similar lines, though, being in the US, I imagined a store specializing in products from the UK like digestive biscuits and spotted dick.

CCCubbon wrote: "Shhh ……I am whispering that I have a sneaky feeling that Robinson in Standing in the Shadow was guilty of padding..."

That's a shame. But I will still read it because I've really liked his books.

CCCubbon wrote: "Shhh ……I am whispering that I have a sneaky feeling that Robinson in Standing in the Shadow was guilty of padding."

Edmund Wilson contended that padding (or, as he termed it, "excelsior", defined as "softwood shavings used for packing fragile goods or stuffing furniture") is a characteristic feature of the mystery genre, an opinion my own limited reading of mystery novels has tended to support.

scarletnoir wrote: "2. unspecified setting - nope"

Perhaps we will be seeing more novels with unspecified settings, since Elizabeth Gilbert has indefinitely postponed publication of her new novel:

The best-selling author Elizabeth Gilbert said Monday that she had indefinitely delayed the publication of her upcoming book after she was criticized online for writing a novel set in Russia.

The move comes as publishers and institutions struggle with how to handle Russian art and literature as the war in Ukraine rages on. The uproar that drove Gilbert’s decision to pull her novel, which is set in 20th century Siberia, suggests that the debate has broadened to include the question of how the country should be represented in fiction.

Gift link:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/12/bo...